Using Dating Aps For P4p
- Thread starter MossBoss
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I recall only once seeing someone doing enjou-kosai in Skout, but it was in Kansai Area, her profile quoted her rates in that cryptic enjou-kousai language (S1.5 サ1.5 条件あり 場所ない), and just after that there was a message saying “don’t text me unless you understand what this means!!!” in Japanese and English, although her rates and info were only in Japanese, so I assume that she was getting a lot of messages from people not understanding what she was doing, specially foreigners.
I presume that pictures of cleavage in lingerie without a face in dating apps have a chance of being escorts too, just like your profile picture here. I don’t see many Japanese doing this though, rather foreigners. Japanese usually post a picture of their face with their eyes blurred or a Line stamp covering them. Since I don’t have intention of booking them, I have never inquired further. Whether it is Japanese of foreigner escorts, I don’t see that many in dating apps when used in Kansai.
As I always complain bitterly, it might be different in Tokyo, everything is viable there just by how many people are using these apps. If your approach to enjou-kosai is very direct (like quoting your rates in your profile or first message) then you won’t lose too much time at least, if you are more subtle (for example, arranging a date without saying it’s compensated, even though it should be clear because the guy is way older than you and you are agreeing to meet him soon and at his convenience) I think the chances of a misunderstanding are very big. Even being direct I think a lot of people are going to be confused and some of them pissed when they realize you are a escort. Regardless of who is on the wrong there (it is after all a dating app and guys would get punched in the face if they insinuated to the wrong woman that they would pay for sex; on the other hand, society doesn’t offer many ways for independent escorts to advertise themselves…), I doubt it might not be worth the negative messages you will get for sure.
Edited: I just took a long look again at Skout and didn’t find any escorts near Kansai.
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Sinapse
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Ches
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Oooh I see, the japanese version. It must be good then
Does it border more to a long established relationship or more like one time meet up?
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It has been associated with teens being paid by older guys to go out on dates. Sometimes no sex is involved I believe.
just4fun
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Guess they're not going out with me then.....
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Well, you seem quite young yourself. And prefer to date early 20's.
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Ches
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You'd do enjo kousai? Haha as the paying man? [emoji38]
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Nope, as the receiving party
Occasionally a kyaba or young married woman will take me out to some very nice dates - cruises and helicopter rides.. or buy me things. Never actually taken straight cash though..
Ches
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Kyaba means young married woman or kyabakura onna?Nope, as the receiving party
Occasionally a kyaba or young married woman will take me out to some very nice dates - cruises and helicopter rides.. or buy me things. Never actually taken straight cash though..
Enlist yourself on SA then haha or maybe make a TAG ad as a male SB or escort? Worth a try [emoji6]
Solong
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I'm just not understanding why a guy or sex worker would want to do that. It invites drama, problems, and condemnation. It's against the policy of dating sites like Tinder, Skout, OkCupid, etc... They will ban the profile if reported.
There are so many websites, including here, where escorts are advertising. And as long as the people are not open about it, Craigslist is almost another backpage.com . And why not use backpage?
So to be looking for or a sex-worker to advertise in that way, is automatically in the odd or suspicious scam territory.
just4fun
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Two separate demographics. Certain high level kyaba can make a lot of cash. Other women I've met who were very secretive and just showed up in a series of nice cars and were cagey about particulars and their living situation.. Just assumed they were married to someone pretty well off.
Ches
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Hey, you haven't commented on my suggestion on listing yourself on SA or as male escort on TAG
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I dunno.. It's just happened naturally until now.. Which means it's someone I was interested and approached and they just happened to have a fair bit of money and want to use it on me.. Not just anyone for the money or dates. I had to cut one kyaba off because despite the awesome dates, she was getting too attached and would drop hints about moving in next door to me or visiting my hometown
Anyway, as far as I know there's no option on the sugar dating sights for male SBs
Gyaruru is a Japanese app but its pretty easy to use for foreigners because you just have a simple profile with one picture and some lines of text. Its not a very good place to look for clients as a girl though because its free for men to sign up. There are other Japanese dating apps where men pay for a membership that are quite good for enjou kosai for girls.
I think apps like gyaruru, tinder and skout might work for girls who don't have very high rates (under 20.000) but not for me i guess. I tried gyaruru and actually got a good one there but it was mostly a waste of time. Also chatted with some potentional real date interests because it has a lot of guys that are my type but i gave up soon on that app. A lot of incoming emails (more than i could handle) and i heard many stories from friends that the hot guys don't actually look like that one picture they have to upload.
Enjou-kosai is closer to one time meet ups than to regular meet-ups. Some escorts do enjou-kosai as well, but the best way of understand it is as something that people do irregularly for whatever the reason: i) it’s not their main source of income; ii) they have limited time, and iii) – here is where the legal issues comes — their age, marriage, main work limitations, or visa status don’t let them do escorting through a certified adult shop. Young students nail all three conditions, but there is a lot more of variety of people who only fit one of those conditions. Rarely there are appointments, instead the person who is doing enjou-kosai announces a location and time when she will be available, then receives messages in real time like an auction, meets the person that wins, and if she has enough time then it could maybe arrange another auction. It’s not very efficient.
Users do it mostly for the thrill, service is rarely good (short time for session, coming late to appointments, don’t showing up, and even bad attitude), but it’s the only way for people to meet very young people, sometimes underage, or fulfill the fantasy of doing compensated sex with amateurs like a married woman having an affair or someone that is facing financial trouble, and so forth. If you come too straightforward as an escort people loose interest, in that case they would just simple use a traditional escort service where they can arrange a more formal appointment any moment.
As for the providers, they do it because it leaves almost not trace at all of their activity: there is no shop, there are no work interviews, there is no schedule, and there is no website with their profile. Or if they don’t do it for the extra anonymity, they do it because they truly cannot afford the time, investment, or don’t have the skills to go the route of a full indie escort.
Well, you just answered yourself there… What happened to Craigslist sex services ads? They were closed. This is a bigger issue in the US than in Japan and other countries where prostitution is somewhat legalized, but there is still unfair practices against advertisement of escorts all over the Internet. Indie escorts can’t host their website wherever they want, some hosting servers and payment system put restrictions to them, for example. As long as there is segregation of escorts online, we don’t hold the moral high ground to ask them to play it civil with their advertising tactics.
Now, I’m ambivalent regarding escorts being on dating websites. Some would still do it even if they had better ways for advertising somewhere else. There is indeed something scamy about they approaching guys that are stating on the open that they are interested in a hook-up or a date, obviously not compensated but through mutual interest. Then again, we are bombarded by all kinds of advertising online and nobody thinks we should be protected from Google ads for hotels and travel tickets following us everywhere in our browsers because we asked on Google a travel related question (What are the best hotspots in Kyoto?), and Google put two and two together (This person is going to need soon a ticket and a hotel!) and targeted its advertising to you.*
Personally, I don’t think escorts targeting users in dating apps is a nice practice. But I stop at that, I would just call it “not nice.”
*Granted, some people are against this kind of advertisement from Google, Amazon, etc, but not to the same degree that escorts advertisement is criticized and is already being restricted online.
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Solong
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Your argument on escorts trying to advertise on dating apps is kind of conflicted. Backpage.com is operating well, and escorts can put their ads up there. There are other sites like tokyochicks.net...
The escort is knowingly violating the policy of the dating site and usually misrepresenting themselves, as if a normal woman looking for a relationship. This is deception and scammish behavior. It's very questionable why she feels or her company/agent feels the need to use deceptive practices. Does she have an incurable STD? Is she fat or ugly, so can't compete against other escorts? And many of these are straight up scams to provide no sexual service, and to take guys money.
I'm saying it's not an ambiguous situation at most dating sites. Prostitution is straight up against the policy there, so trying hard to violate the policy when there are so many websites that are for escorts doesn't make much sense, unless up to something nefarious.
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Just because there are some websites, it doesn’t mean that there are many websites. Not specially when you compare it with any other kind of service in society. You can freely advertise all kind of services and products online, even dubious dietary supplements, but the same cannot be said about escorts, there are a lot of restrictions online. Furthermore, since prostitution is illegal for the most part in the US that means that Silicon Valley and the biggest online ad companies won’t even consider getting into the legal issue of allowing escorts’ advertisement, not to mention a few of these companies seem to actually be in moral agreement with these restrictions, like Apple. If a website gains enough popularity, then it gets crushed down with request from the public for banning adult content, that is what happened to Craigslist and RedBook.
If you have problem understanding a relative situation, here is an absolute situation that is easier to understand: The restrictions on apps with adult content on Apple’s App Store are 100%, and they are enforced in every country. Apps with adult content, such as porn, or an app that could allow escorts to advertise, for example a TAG app, are strictly banned. Even games with objectionable adult content are subject to censorship. Now, is true that you could use a web browser on an iPhone to access TAG, but the same could be said about Facebook. Why does Facebook get to have an app but not TAG? The double standard is clear. My point is that we don’t have the moral high ground to complain about dishonest escort advertising in some places when society puts restrictions and sometimes strict bans on any kind of escort adverting, regardless of it is honest or dishonest.
The situation is a little bit different in Japan, but the country is not specially strong in online adverting nor apps. The apps that get away with allowing enjou-kosai do it discretely, but apps that are noticeable enough, like HappyMail have had to cut their adult forums from their apps, you can only access them using a web browser.
We are so far away from a fair situation nowadays that it’s difficult for me to ponder in an ideal world whether escorts adverting should be allowed on dating apps or not. In an ideal world, should escorts be restricted in some places if they get enough adverting in most but not all places (unlike today)? Or would society be so open to compensated relationships in the future that you could accept escorts in dating apps just as a different kind of user? This might seem ludicrous, but not until very recently dating apps were hostile to homosexuals and transexuals. We would have to teach kids that escorts exist and that when you are out in the world, like on a dating app, you need to know if what you want is a compensated date or a free relationship, maybe sometimes you want a escort but not always and that’s ok, this might be too uncomfortable for a world that still has lots of issues with sex education. Escorting might not be there yet, but striptease has gotten way closer to that in popular culture and the real world, in some neighborhoods is not considered rude to be advertised equally for striptease clubs and normal pubs on the same street, and movies and TV shows display that it’s acceptable for guys to be guys and go to striptease clubs sometimes. I’m playing devil’s advocate, even to me a world were escorts are common in dating apps sounds too materialist and dystopian, I have to admit it, but prostitution has existed for millennia maybe it’s time society recognizes it’s out there and is not going away. I’m under the impression that even in an ideal world, escorts in dating apps should fall under a different category if what they are doing is adverting. But maybe I’m old fashioned and I’m not that open minded about compensated relationships.
I forgot to mention, escorts would usually quote you their rates very soon in a conversation on a dating app. They don’t want to waste your time nor their time pretending to be something else. The probability of gaining the interest of some guy that was not looking for a escort from the beginning is almost null. It would still be an annoyance for some users, sort of like unwanted mail, but nobody is getting conned this way. Most cons impersonate escorts, but they aren’t real escorts. That’s another argument in favor of allowing escorts honest adverting to be more open, if people get familiar with them then they will be able to identify deceptive advertising.
I’m not claiming to be right, but try to be more empathetic, @Solong. Your main problem with many topics is not lack of knowledge, but lack of empathy. Just because escorts can advertise in some places that doesn’t mean they are on equal foot. It’s relative. Sure they can advertise, but how openly, and in how many places they can advertise is still an issue.
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Solong
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1) Where would a customer for P4P look, on a dating app or escort website?
So your argument is very shaky and a bit illogical, because it doesn't make much sense to advertise where your services are forbidden and to guys not looking for that service.
2) Who deserves more "empathy", the guy or woman looking for a date on Saturday, or a sex worker trying to make money?
Sex workers are a business, and if they are proactively going after customers, that's about money.
Smart business people follow good business practices. Advertising on pro escort websites, means customers who want an escort and less to no confusion. Advertising on dating websites means confusion, problems, and trouble.
You have more empathy for the escort making 300 dollars (30,000 yen) an hour and tax free, then the guy who was scammed or tricked?
3) Craigslist is still viable
Anybody looking at Craigslist knows many prostitutes are working that website. The new-half/transsexual section is almost comical in the thin disguise of what they are doing. Very crafty people know how to work Craigslist, and their policies are more ambiguous.
But if you are not wanted there, why be there? Better to be on websites that have no problem displaying your ads to customers that want your service.