Online Date Club!

[Jennifer Maddingly]

Jennifer, if we're really paying just for contact you'll need to offer some sort of guaranteed refund if the girl won't meet. Heck you ought to go further, "money back if she's not fun". I'd go for that, much better return than random nampa!

I have no way of knowing if you meet the girl or not or if she was fun so there won't be any refunds as this isn't a Fuzoku place or deli health, it's a date club. You're paying for the contact. However if the girl is unreachable then you will be refunded.

 

[Wwanderer]

Wouldn't agree that UC was so close to an escort service. While the end goal maybe the same the meetings were in a date setting often with dinner or movies as part of the 'experience'. Plus direct contact after the initial setup, often just with casual LINE or email chats between 'dates'.

Anyway, good luck to Jennifer with the endeavor.

SN...

I agree. Having used both UC, escort services, SA and np4p online dating services all fairly extensively, I don't consider UC to be particularly like an escort service...lots of *important* differences, good and bad depending on your goals and priorities.

-Ww

 

[Jazzy]

I have no way of knowing if you meet the girl or not or if she was fun so there won't be any refunds as this isn't a Fuzoku place or deli health, it's a date club. You're paying for the contact. However if the girl is unreachable then you will be refunded.

Was mostly joking about the fun guarantee, but it would be a good business advantage ;-)

@meiji says most dating clubs refund if the date doesn't happen which makes a lot of sense. Paying just for contact which may not even lead to a date seems difficult to justify even if it's 100% on the up and up.

 

[Solong]

Was mostly joking about the fun guarantee, but it would be a good business advantage ;-)

@meiji says most dating clubs refund if the date doesn't happen which makes a lot of sense. Paying just for contact which may not even lead to a date seems difficult to justify even if it's 100% on the up and up.

If Jennifer or the website master have a screening process and delete fake accounts or women pulling "no shows" on guys, then that can work out better. If you pay, you can at least be reasonably sure women will show up.

That's truly half the battle, more than even a guarantee of sex. So many date sites go the scam route with sakura/fake accounts or have pranksters and cat-fish roaming free on customers, that it destroys the entire purpose.

 

[Wwanderer]

Basically you will be paying to be able to contact the girl at all. Anything that you two decide is outside the system.

Actually this is pretty close to the current UC system as I understand it.

Previously UC provided a male customer with both an introduction to his date and an indication of how much she would expect/accept as an "allowance" or "sugar" for private time at a hotel after the getting-to-know-you meal together on your first date (called a "setting"). For this the guy paid both an annual membership fee and a setting/introduction fee each time he used the service. After that it was strictly up to the two of you how to proceed, if at all.

Last spring or early summer, however, the UC system changed to one in which the Club provided only the introduction (with no change in their fees as far as I know). Further arrangements and activities were then totally up to the couple with no Club involvement. I suspect that the change was made for legal reasons, but that is just a guess. Personally I think that the new system is much less attractive and valuable for both male and female members, and I have not used UC services since the change (but not solely for that reason).

Anyway, as far as I can see, the current UC system provides pretty much the same thing as the club Jennifer is planning with one possible/probable exception; namely, I suspect that UC would give you a refund if no meeting ever took place at all. In fact, UC does/did not even provide contact info to the guy before the first meeting (setting).

Given that Jennifer's proposed charge of ¥20,000 for the contact info is *much* lower than UC fees for a setting, her "system" sounds perfectly reasonable and competitive to me.

-Ww

 

[meiji]

Given that Jennifer's proposed charge of ¥20,000 for the contact info is *much* lower than UC fees for a setting, her "system" sounds perfectly reasonable and competitive to me.

I thought that was the same as UC setting cost, at least for some levels. Although UC charges an annual fee too.

 

[Solong]

Actually this is pretty close to the current UC system as I understand it.

Previously UC provided a male customer with both an introduction to his date and an indication of how much she would expect/accept as an "allowance" or "sugar" for private time at a hotel after the getting-to-know-you meal together on your first date (called a "setting"). For this the guy paid both an annual membership fee and a setting/introduction fee each time he used the service. After that it was strictly up to the two of you how to proceed, if at all.

Last spring or early summer, however, the UC system changed to one in which the Club provided only the introduction (with no change in their fees as far as I know). Further arrangements and activities were then totally up to the couple with no Club involvement. I suspect that the change was made for legal reasons, but that is just a guess. Personally I think that the new system is much less attractive and valuable for both male and female members, and I have not used UC services since the change (but not solely for that reason).

Anyway, as far as I can see, the current UC system provides pretty much the same thing as the club Jennifer is planning with one possible/probable exception; namely, I suspect that UC would give you a refund if no meeting ever took place at all. In fact, UC does/did not even provide contact info to the guy before the first meeting (setting).

Given that Jennifer's proposed charge of ¥20,000 for the contact info is *much* lower than UC fees for a setting, her "system" sounds perfectly reasonable and competitive to me.

-Ww

Personally, I think UC pricing is excessive and beyond most guys. There is lots of room for alternatives. You are talking about an arranged date, that may cost the guy 70,000 yen or MORE when it's said and done (membership, annual, setting). And going to a date/deai club can cost just 27,000 yen for everything in comparison. A date website, even if the guy pays for everything (dinner and hotel) can be 20,000 yen or LESS, for everything. Of course date cafes and date websites can have a lot of strikeouts, not just homeruns, though lots of free swings. Watched a Japanese guy using Tinder on the train last night, so guys know what's up now.

Not every guy is rich or clueless. Offer a good value and deal, they are sure to come. If not, social media and word of mouth can hurt. Guys are going to compare options.

 

[Wwanderer]

I thought that was the same as UC setting cost, at least for some levels. Although UC charges an annual fee too.

Correct. The UC setting fee is ¥20,000 for their lowest level. It ranges up to ¥100,000 for the highest. The annual membership fees are the same or a bit higher than the setting fees at each level; the first year is a bit more than re-ups. There are four levels. The large majority of the women are rated (by the Club) in one of the two middle levels, and from what I have heard the women rated at the lowest level attract very few requests from guys despite the lower cost.

It of course remains to be seen, but my strong hunch is that it will be cheaper to meet a woman of the same "level" via Jennifer's new club than via UC. In other words, I would guess that UC would not rate the women available through Jennifer's club at their lowest level in most, maybe all, cases. To be sure, UC gives you a meeting with the woman of your choice whereas Jennifer's club is only going to provide contact info (if I understand her post above correctly)...so not quite the same service.

Overall, I'd say that they are both in the same general part of the market.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Personally, I think UC pricing is excessive and beyond most guys. There is lots of room for alternatives. You are talking about an arranged date, that may cost the guy 70,000 yen or MORE when it's said and done (membership, annual, setting). And going to a date/deai club can cost just 27,000 yen for everything in comparison. A date website, even if the guy pays for everything (dinner and hotel) can be 20,000 yen or LESS, for everything. Of course date cafes and date websites can have a lot of strikeouts, not just homeruns, though lots of free swings. Watched a Japanese guy using Tinder on the train last night, so guys know what's up now.

Not every guy is rich or clueless. Offer a good value and deal, they are sure to come. If not, social media and word of mouth can hurt. Guys are going to compare options.

With, as always, all due respect, I think that the above analysis/evaluation is bogus for multiple reasons. But rather than explain why here, in a thread about Jennifer's club, I think I will spin-off a new thread about UC itself...as soon as I have the time. Stay tuned (if you care).

-Ww

 

[Solong]

With, as always, all due respect, I think that the above analysis/evaluation is bogus for multiple reasons. But rather than explain why here, in a thread about Jennifer's club, I think I will spin-off a new thread about UC itself...as soon as I have the time. Stay tuned (if you care).

-Ww

Don't forget the cost of the hotel, and often dinner, in addition to all the other fees. My comment is referring to the entire cost of a date.

I agree, we are going a bit off track. I'm just saying there is a good competitive space for Jennifer's dating service if she does her calculations right. Particularly, making sure guys meet the lady chosen, the lady shows up, and screening out any pranksters or swindlers. Her dating site could be quite successful.

Per Jennifer's original post.

I think many guys would like corresponding with real women, who really show up for dates. That alone can put her above many of the date website competition.

Many guys would likely prefer more anonymity, as the site already has their credit card info (which has their address) and phone number. Perhaps phone verification, being an additional check.

Women would usually not have to give such credit card info, so screening if they are real, would be a different process. Skype or LINE might work, as both can do video.

 

[Wwanderer]

Don't forget the cost of the hotel, and often dinner, in addition to all the other fees. My comment is referring to the entire cost of a date.

My disagreement was not with the numbers you used (gave as examples); its actual nature will be in the other thread.

I'm just saying there is a good competitive space for Jennifer's dating service if she does her calculations right.

I'm in complete agreement with you on this point. Her "system" sounds very reasonable and competitive; I may well use it myself. That is why I think it better to praise and/or criticize UC in a thread about UC.

-Ww

 

[Jennifer Maddingly]

Getting the site up and running is taking some time so please bare with me while I get it going.

Putting together profiles of the girls also takes time as I will be taking the photos myself so you know what you are getting.

I may change the system a bit and set the date up myself so I can gaurentee that the meeting happens and if it doesn't then a full refund will of course be provided.

There won't be a ranking system in place for a while until I can see the girls in action.

I'm using various scout companies to find girls at the moment. So many of them don't speak English. However their language ability will be posted on the profile.

 

[Serenity Now]

Getting the site up and running is taking some time so please bare with me while I get it going.

'please BARE with me', perhaps a Freudian slip. [emoji4]

 

[Solong]

Getting the site up and running is taking some time so please bare with me while I get it going.

Putting together profiles of the girls also takes time as I will be taking the photos myself so you know what you are getting.

I may change the system a bit and set the date up myself so I can gaurentee that the meeting happens and if it doesn't then a full refund will of course be provided.

There won't be a ranking system in place for a while until I can see the girls in action.

I'm using various scout companies to find girls at the moment. So many of them don't speak English. However their language ability will be posted on the profile.

Something very good is to implement a number system to rank the "relationship enthusiasm" of women (or whatever you want to call it ;-). 1, 2, 3, and 4. 1- dinner only to 4- continually see guy.

I think such a system can be more important than a opinion based ranking or review of the woman. This can distinguish how far a woman is willing to go. This can quickly allow men and women to synchronize their expectations.

"Oh, she's 1, 2, 3, and 4. So hotel and meeting again is fine. Maybe sugarbaby or steady."

"Oh, she's just a 1. So don't expect more than just dinner."

"I see, she's 1, 2, and 3 only. So hotel is OK, but after tonight, maybe that's it."

 

[R.O.B]

1st base, 2nd base, 3rd base, home run. Whos on 1st, Whats on 2nd, Idontknows on 3rd.

 

[Serenity Now]

Something very good is to implement a number system to rank the "relationship enthusiasm" of women (or whatever you want to call it ;-). 1, 2, 3, and 4. 1- dinner only to 4- continually see guy.

I think such a system can be more important than a opinion based ranking or review of the woman. This can distinguish how far a woman is willing to go. This can quickly allow men and women to synchronize their expectations.

"Oh, she's 1, 2, 3, and 4. So hotel and meeting again is fine. Maybe sugarbaby or steady."

"Oh, she's just a 1. So don't expect more than just dinner."

"I see, she's 1, 2, and 3 only. So hotel is OK, but after tonight, maybe that's it."

More or less the original UC system.

Not criticizing, worked very well. Makes it clear cut for everyone. Never experienced any awkward moments when the expectations were understood going on the date.

 

[Solong]

More or less the original UC system.

Not criticizing, worked very well. Makes it clear cut for everyone. Never experienced any awkward moments when the expectations were understood going on the date.

Yes, it is. Though Jennifer may want to tweak and "abstract" it a bit more. Maybe...

1- dinner only, 2- hotel maybe possible, 3- continually see guy preferred.

The key though is her making it clear to women she is screening to be honest about how they would like dates to go, and that this is for reducing problems or guys complaining or rating them badly. Reducing awkwardness and synchronizing expectations, would be another massive advantage over the vast majority of date websites.

It's also deceptively simple, as it can give Jennifer a lot of room for the types of women on her website. She doesn't have to get or focus on a particular type of woman, as the women label themselves, allowing her to present a wide range of women. College girls, OLs, housewives, whoever...

The simple system also creates pressure for men and women to align themselves properly. If the setting fee is 20,000 yen across the board, and you are 1- dinner only, clearly you best be spectacular, young (but legal- Jennifer will likely need women to hold up or zoom in on ID by possibly LINE or Skype), or offering things like flexible or last minute scheduling. Women looking for steady guys, can now broadcast this as well, by choosing 3- continually see guy preferred.

"1, 3. Oh, so dinner and maybe steady, but no hotel."

"2, 3. Oh, maybe we can skip dinner, go to the hotel, and be steadies."

"1, 2. Dinner, then maybe hotel, but tonight only."

"1, 2, 3. Dinner, hotel, and maybe become steadies."

As the guys are paying and choosing, they wouldn't have to number lable themselves, just the ladies. This stops the BS games and spinning in circles many dating websites are known for (like OkCupid and their insane question and percentage system- 85% match... WTF?), where women, misrepresent themselves or there is too much confusion. The label system allows for simple clarification of possibilities.

 

[Jazzy]

Putting together profiles of the girls also takes time as I will be taking the photos myself so you know what you are getting.

I may change the system a bit and set the date up myself so I can gaurentee that the meeting happens and if it doesn't then a full refund will of course be provided.

Great, I like the sound of that! Could save me a lot of time & energy that's better used elsewhere ;-)

 

[R.O.B]

Devil's Advocate here. Jennifer is setting this up and has said she will be doing the profiles of the girls etc. and even micro-managing the meetings. I presume that in the interests of safety for the girls she would need certain information from clients, maybe even meet them in person. What info, and what security to potential clients have with regards to info and personal privacy? It seems a lot of sensitive info could be in the hands/hard-drive of one person.

 

[Jennifer Maddingly]

Like I said. This isn't a Fuzoku website so I'll be trying to keep the sex part downplayed

 

[Jazzy]

Devil's Advocate here. Jennifer is setting this up and has said she will be doing the profiles of the girls etc. and even micro-managing the meetings. I presume that in the interests of safety for the girls she would need certain information from clients, maybe even meet them in person. What info, and what security to potential clients have with regards to info and personal privacy? It seems a lot of sensitive info could be in the hands/hard-drive of one person.

Yeah, I'd be willing to meet Jennifer in person for a screening and cash exchange but unwilling to put any data in electronic or paper files. That's the primary reason I won't join UC.

I know far too much about computer security and how incompetent most programmers are. The only safe choice is not to share any real information and rotate false identities frequently.

 

[meiji]

The label system allows for simple clarification of possibilities.

It can also get the people running the org into a crapload of trouble with the law, which is why UC doesn't use that system anymore.

 

[Wwanderer]

It can also get the people running the org into a crapload of trouble with the law, which is why UC doesn't use that system anymore.

Actually they do still use that system; I just checked the UC website moments ago to confirm it. These are the UC "dating types", labeled with the letters A - E. In fact their new website features this information even more prominently than the old one.

However, they did remove another type of information from the profiles of the female members, namely their personal fees for private/hotel time on a setting (first date). This was likely done for legal reasons, but it also has the effect of making UC's services vastly less attractive imo.

I'll say more on this in a post on the thread devoted to UC which I started recently.

-Ww

 

[Solong]

It can also get the people running the org into a crapload of trouble with the law, which is why UC doesn't use that system anymore.

That's not true, have never seen a site get in trouble for such a system.

The system is generalized and unspecific. Dinner, maybe hotel, continually meet.... Is not a commitment or guarantee of anything, nor negotiating any prices, and there is nothing wrong with it.

An escort site or woman advertising their prices online, can be getting them in trouble, yet most get away with being very specific anyway. Not asking for women to put prices up, guarantee hours, price per hour, or anything like that.

On Date websites, they list out the type of relationship that they want. Dating, friends, long term, marriage... This is inline with that, just focusing on the date itself and what possibilities the woman is open to, not odd relationship requirements in general. And as mentioned, UC uses something similar.

As long as Jennifer allows no pricing and no guaranteed services, she is fine. You are very much allowed to mention how you like the date to go or possible locations.

 

[Solong]

Like I said. This isn't a Fuzoku website so I'll be trying to keep the sex part downplayed

The reply was unspecific, so wasn't sure to who or what you were replying to.

There are many date websites to choose from and many bad ones, so I think many members here are hoping yours will become a successful and useful one. I would like to see you do well, particularly as you are a TAG member.

In regards to the label system, it isn't Fuzoku. In fact, it can accommodate non-fuzoku or more regular type women too. It's simply helpful information about the date. If a guy is going to pay a 20,000 yen setting fee, you need to give some compelling reasons and align their expectations with the woman he might choose.