Just Got Back From Hk!

I know im new on this board but even on initial lurking i never got the impression that Japan was a marvelous place to monger for Gaijin. Even though natives have cheaper options, they still find mongering at home expensive. Hence why you see Nihon & Kankoku salary men hit AC in phils & Patts in LOS full force.

In Ac/Los they can get good hotels, waltz into the bars, buy Dld's without a second thought, get the hottest girls in the bars, give big "face gaining" tips for an average at best St service & Still be cheaper than mongering at the same level in Japan or Korea.

This post should be linked to on the FAQ:

"I don't speak any Japanese, should I come to Japan for p4p?"

Manny said:

Hong Kong was great! Way too easy to monger. Hell, even the cab drivers was advertising pussy out there. They don't care if you are black, white or green. As long as you got money there wasn't any discrimination and I'm half black half Puerto Rican.
I spent a lot of money in Japan for pussy that mostly was falsely advertised. I will never again let that happen. I'm giving up mongering in the land of discrimination. The woman in HK are way hotter, not lazy, cheaper, and most importantly don't discriminate.
Fuck being told no by these lazy ass discriminating broads and ya'll can argue all ya'll want. I really could give a shit. All I'm saying there are options a billion times better than here in Japan. I love living here but I hate the mongering options because either people fuck it up for us, or they dont like foreigners, or the language barrier, or too expensive, or they only accept other Asian foreigners, or certain types of foreigners, or your penis is too big, or they want a 5000 yen tip on top of the gaijin tax and another 2000 yen for choosing the girl and 4k for the room and sometimes you have to find another hotel because they don't accept foreigners even you speak proper nihongo. And on and on and no, and damme, and the X sign. It's embarrassing to be turned down by a . It's ridiculous. If you defend that then maybe you're a glutton for punishment but please don't make this place sound like paradise 'cause it fucking ain't. You're just saying that because you don't have any other options. Japanese mongering is great if you love getting blue balls or if you feel awesome at getting duped because the picture was heavily photo shopped. I get that this JK style is sweeping the Tokyo adult guide nation but eventually someone is gonna fuck it up and where else you gonna go? Asian mystique where it costs a gabillion freaking dollars for old has Beens? Or nasty dolls that cost way more? That money alone is a round trip ticket to fucking Thailand! I'm done with this goddamn wack pussy over here.

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Of all the places I traveled to, I would say based on price, Japan is the WORSE place to monger.

And that includes Japan being among the worse places for racism, discrimination, or just acting weird against all non-Japanese/foreigners.

Take Taiwan for example, another group of islands, nearby. Nearly no sex related issues whatsoever. We had a mixed race crew of Americans, and no problems with service or getting women. Even South Korea, notorious for racism and discrimination, is easier to get service and into red light district clubs than Japan.

My opinion about Japan in this regard, is experienced and determined people often figure out ways to maneuver and get around racism and discrimination in Japan. If not, they leave. If so, they get used to it or stay.

However, when it comes to the types of fetishes, perversions, and variety of shops offering different services then Japan SHINES in this regard and is among the MOST interesting places. Few places have as much variety in sexual services as arguably Japan does, IF you can get in them.

John Chavers said:

This post should be linked to on the FAQ:

"I don't speak any Japanese, should I come to Japan for p4p?"

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Why doesn't that apply to Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, Singapore, Thailand, Philippines, Germany, Holland, Poland, Czech Republic...?

All those other places you can have fun without being fluent in the native language.

Why is Japan the most problematic or odd place in this regard, or is it an issue beyond language?

Solong said:

Of all the places I traveled to, I would say based on price, Japan is the WORSE place to monger.

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Don't come to the US, then! I live in a big city on the East coast, and you're looking at $300/hr bare minimum for any decent provider. Considering how expensive a lot of things are in Japan, the cost of sex didn't seem so bad. Though, I understand that it's pretty bad compared to a lot of other Asian countries.

gaijinsan said:

Don't come to the US, then! I live in a big city on the East coast, and you're looking at $300/hr bare minimum for any decent provider. Considering how expensive a lot of things are in Japan, the cost of sex didn't seem so bad. Though, I understand that it's pretty bad compared to a lot of other Asian countries.

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I don't know what you are talking about. Plenty is cheaper than $300 dollars in the U.S.

But for that matter, many escorts will throw out crazy prices to catch the unknowledgeable. They will throw out $600 dollars or even $1,000 dollars for average Jane, for any guy desperate enough. Then in negotiations possibly come way down, or a guy can find much cheaper elsewhere at the same quality.

And is it really upscale and high quality or average Jane pretending to be so? In the U.S. some of those crazy high prices are for women that were/are models, athletes, gymnasts, real dancers, porn stars, etc... In those particular cases, the prices could be justifiable, as the women are truly UNUSUAL. Plain/Average Jane has no such background or special qualities.

Let's take Korea for example. If you simply went by Internet escort prices, then you would think the going rate was $400 to $500. This is to catch tourists that don't know any better, and are too lazy to research. Just in the hotel making calls or searching the Internet.

A bit of digging by just walking around popular areas in Korea, and you will find flyers of very high quality women that will come to your room for $100 to $150 dollars. A little more research on locations, and you can find entire neighborhoods with dozens of brothels with several QUALITY women inside that YOU can CHOOSE, for $50 to $75 dollars.

Germany or Czech Republic is the same way. If you just stayed in the hotel or lazily only scanned certain Internet sites, it could skew your thinking on price range. Plenty with wild prices like $500 dollars or more. A bit of research, like say in Germany, and you can find entire apartment complexs of quality women that you can choose for $35 to $40 dollars.

In Japan, prices are abnormally high, versus the international price range and other countries. There are few options price wise, because prices tend to be more standardized and set across the board. The mindset of charging the same as everybody else or the maximum the market can bear, versus beating the competition on price.

Japanese guys are preyed upon, and sex appears to be more like an infrequent luxury item. Like as if too many guys only have sex 1x a week or 1x every 2 weeks, some NOT at all. Numerous different Sex Surveys of Japan bear this out and there are international news reports out right now that say 50% of Japanese don't have sex at all (and people wonder why the population is rapidly declining). Partially and arguably, the price of sex and cost of living are too high, and many withdrawing into their house like hermits or living like kids with their parents at advanced ages.

Solong said:

I would say based on price, Japan is the WORSE place to monger.

...

However, when it comes to the types of fetishes, perversions, and variety of shops offering different services then Japan SHINES in this regard and is among the MOST interesting places. Few places have as much variety in sexual services as arguably Japan does, IF you can get in them.

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Both points agree with my experience...based on the roughly 50 countries and the nearly 50 US states I've visited in my life. The variety of experiences available (to the determined and persistent) in Japan is simply astonishing and far ahead of any other place of which I am aware (personally or based on second hand reports), and as with so many things in the Japanese service economy, the quality is *typically* extremely high.

Although I am not vastly wealthy by any stretch, I am fortunate not to have to be overly concerned about (constrained by) finances in my mongering. As such, Japan is THE place for me.

-Ww

Manny said:

What I find interesting is how can they turn down money. I'm sure they turn down tons of cold hard cash on a regular basis.

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I will elaborate on this particular and legitimate point that you brought up.

Groupism, Prejudice, & Yakuza

One of the major problems foreigners run into when in Japan, from my observations, is meeting Japanese that feel they are part of a collective. It's a Borg-like mindset where they want to be just like all other Japanese and feel they should do what they BELIEVE all other Japanese are doing.

The funny thing about this peculiar Japanese mind-set is in fact all Japanese ARE NOT alike or think alike. Now why did I type that and how does it relate to this topic?

1) You can have a near 50 year old Japanese prostitute with missing teeth that deludes herself into thinking she can charge you/a foreigner as much as for a 25 year old pretty Japanese woman.

Why? Because she is Japanese. You will look at her like she is absolutely insane and go "WTF!", but she will bluff you and try to pull it off.

2) If can be that a Japanese thinks no other Japanese will accept you, so then they won't accept you either.

It's a type of group think and more of the Borg mentality. They will decide by what they THINK/BELIEVE that everyone else is thinking or doing in their group.

However, if they think OTHER Japanese do accept you, then they will/might too. A kind of trick of perception.

3) Yakuza

"What we are doing might be shady or illegal, but we are true Japanese, so accept us."

The Yakuza is known for being ultra nationalistic and super patriotic. This is a political ploy and tactic that has worked out quite well for them. It's designed to cover what they do.

By banning you, a foreigner, they are showing they have standards and are loyal to Japan. Basically, you are a political sacrifice. "Yeah, we do prostitution, but at least we don't accept foreigners. We are the "true" defenders of Japan."

But, need for money or perception in various situations, can change this. They didn't accept you last month, but now business is bad, so they will this time.

The Japanese Are Not All Alike

The trick is understanding that despite what certain Japanese may say or how it might look, NOT all Japanese are actually alike. There are always Japanese that will DO or THINK differently.

For foreigners, that means do you have the PATIENCE & PERSEVERANCE to find those places or Japanese that will act or treat you differently?

Some foreigners do, and some don't.

Solong, not sure if you ever went to Germany, but you will have a pretty hard time to find any services offered at 500$(it's there, but so rare/exclusive that you never should expect that to be standard) there and it is outright impossible to get service from a quality women for 35$ to 40$ unless of course you consider only 15 or 20minutes. Maybe you mix that up with Czech or we just have a very different opinion on the term "quality women". Doesn't change your assessment though, that it is still significantly cheaper than in Japan, at least if you aim for FS. For erotic massage that doesn't hold true.

RandomTokyoGuy said:

Solong, not sure if you ever went to Germany, but you will have a pretty hard time to find any services offered at 500$(it's there, but so rare/exclusive that you never should expect that to be standard) there and it is outright impossible to get service from a quality women for 35$ to 40$ unless of course you consider only 15 or 20minutes. Maybe you mix that up with Czech or we just have a very different opinion on the term "quality women". Doesn't change your assessment though, that it is still significantly cheaper than in Japan, at least if you aim for FS. For erotic massage that doesn't hold true.

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Been to Germany a couple of times, but last trip has been 2 years ago, with plenty of pictures to back up what I say. We found entire apartment buildings of women. Prices were likely lower, due to the literal door to door competition.

Actually, we paid more in Czech, than in Germany for some places. Because it was a bit more "upscale", Prague, and we were escorted by street guys versus having time to find places. Still was just 40 to 60 Euro.

Though you do have to take the Euro and Dollar conversion rates into consideration. 40 Euro is about 45 dollars now. And it's a range too, depending on what you want, time, and where. But we easily kept full play costs at or under 60 Euro (65 dollars) in several countries across Europe. Often under 50 Euro.

Time wise, it's the same game most everywhere. It depends on woman, day, if other possible customers waiting, etc... Usually until the guy cums. But mostly never felt rushed.

The women were good looking too. Tall, slim, and attractive. The same women there at 50 Euro/55 dollars, would be charging in Japan/Japanese guys from 300 to 500 dollars (50,000 yen), if not trying for more. Yeah, it's like that. But there are always women, no matter where, that will try to charge the max beyond any reason or logic. If a guy is willing to pay 2,000 dollars (200,000 yen), they will gladly take his money.

Just skipping through the thread, there is one thing that I think hasn't been mention, all the problems in Japan related to foreigners and the cost, there is still no full service on the menu, with a few exceptions and extra cash needed, for the same price and even less you can have a girl from Hong Kong or china for the whole night with FS, not for the 1-2 hours.

Solong said:

Plenty is cheaper than $300 dollars in the U.S.

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True. But I'm not travelling hours to some crappy state to get a $150 lay. In LA, NY, DC, Boston, SF, you will likely pay $300/hr (and occasionally 250 if you catch a newbie) for a provider with any decent reputation. Seemed appropriate to compare prices in Tokyo to those cities, and not to Bumfuck, Texas.

Also, the streetwalker scene in the US is much different. You're looking at real dregs.

gaijinsan said:

True. But I'm not travelling hours to some crappy state to get a $150 lay. In LA, NY, DC, Boston, SF, you will likely pay $300/hr (and occasionally 250 if you catch a newbie) for a provider with any decent reputation. Seemed appropriate to compare prices in Tokyo to those cities, and not to Bumfuck, Texas.

Also, the streetwalker scene in the US is much different. You're looking at real dregs.

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True on the street walkers, but they can be cheap. 50 bucks a pop can be had. And when it comes to P4P, a lot of women have something wrong with them or drugs can be involved. Because you paid 300 dollars, doesn't mean this woman doesn't have a "screw loose" or isn't snorting her cut of the money afterwards.

And I would say that in the US, quality and cleanliness is indeed often a surprising problem more than many places in Europe or Asia in regards to that. I partially believe it's the quasi religious beliefs on prostitution in the first place, where it's deemed more unacceptable, thus the territory of dregs.

However, the flip is you are less likely to even need P4P in the first place. When I'm in the states, Internet date sites provide a constant stream of sexual encounters. POF (Plenty of Fish), OkC (OkCupid), Tinder, Craigslist, AFF (AdultFriendFinder), etc... ALL were working to find women that wanted sex, UNLIKE in Japan. In Japan, many Japanese women don't quite seem to get the Internet and have excessive paranoia about meeting or talking to people, thus paying for sex is more a main route here. Where in the US, Internet dating is a much stronger viable option. Even places with more cultural resemblance to Japan, Internet dating is more viable. In Seoul South Korea, Craigslist WORKS, unlike the heterosexual disaster that is Tokyo Craigslist. I was hooking up with Western and Korean women from off there.

gaijinsan said:

True. But I'm not travelling hours to some crappy state to get a $150 lay. In LA, NY, DC, Boston, SF, you will likely pay $300/hr (and occasionally 250 if you catch a newbie) for a provider with any decent reputation. Seemed appropriate to compare prices in Tokyo to those cities, and not to Bumfuck, Texas.

Also, the streetwalker scene in the US is much different. You're looking at real dregs.

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Just checked NY's Craigslist for the fun of it.

https://newyork.craigslist.org/search/cas?sort=date&query=w4m

They all ain't all charging 300 dollars. And that's NY, where prices are high. 150 dollars is doable and where free sex is a possibility too.

With stacked womanly bodies

http://images.craigslist.org/01515_9rPVazLSbJL_600x450.jpg

POF for NY got plenty of women too, and way WAY more than their Tokyo listing. As long as you don't mind chubby or got a kid, plenty of sex to be had for a chicken dinner and grape soda ;-)

http://www.pof.com/basicsearch.aspx...mit=Go+Fishing!&Profession=&Interests=&save=1

It's not like in Tokyo where Japanese women are afraid of their own shadow and might jump out their own skin and die of fright if some guy says "Hello".

Solong said:

As long as you don't mind chubby or got a kid, plenty of sex to be had for a chicken dinner and grape soda ;-)

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An amazing quote, but unfortunately I do mind. My approach to p4p is more of a supplementary thing. I don't have much trouble getting laid for free, but sometimes I want a very specific type of girl or want to know that I'm gonna get a phenomenal lay. Hence, why I like to have lots of information about a provider, reviews, real photos, etc. Can't get that from a streetwalker or some chick on CL/BP. I'm paying for certainty in terms of looks/attitude/performance, I suppose.

But hey, we all like different things, so I hope this doesn't come off as a criticism of your mongering style.

Solong said:

I partially believe it's the quasi religious beliefs on prostitution in the first place, where it's deemed more unacceptable, thus the territory of dregs.

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This is definitely part of the problem. Bigtime stigma on the sex trade in the US (thanks Puritanism!). I imagine it takes some measure of stupidity to get caught in a sting here, but the fact that stings happen at all also tends to keep me away from cheaper options on CL/BP.

gaijinsan said:

An amazing quote, but unfortunately I do mind. My approach to p4p is more of a supplementary thing. I don't have much trouble getting laid for free, but sometimes I want a very specific type of girl or want to know that I'm gonna get a phenomenal lay. Hence, why I like to have lots of information about a provider, reviews, real photos, etc. Can't get that from a streetwalker or some chick on CL/BP. I'm paying for certainty in terms of looks/attitude/performance, I suppose.

But hey, we all like different things, so I hope this doesn't come off as a criticism of your mongering style.


This is definitely part of the problem. Bigtime stigma on the sex trade in the US (thanks Puritanism!). I imagine it takes some measure of stupidity to get caught in a sting here, but the fact that stings happen at all also tends to keep me away from cheaper options on CL/BP.

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P4P off the Internet isn't a sure thing and is about as risky as Internet dating. Plenty of escort services and pimps pull "bait and switch". Where her pictures don't look like her in real life. This includes Photoshop enhancements, stealing model pictures from elsewhere, or different women showing up.

Now on the flip, yeah reviews and ratings of a P4P provider will more likely help you get what you pay for. But equally, you can screen Internet dates too with Skype or make multiple dates in a day. If you line up 4 Internet dates on a weekend, 3 are likely to be exactly how they presented themselves.

For Internet dating there is no direct money incentive, so while there are a some that pull "bait and switch", my guesstimate is 1 or 2 out of 10. Where in P4P Internet escorts, it appears a bit higher in the 4 or 5 out of 10 range and because money is involved. And in Internet dating, if a woman misrepresents herself, the sex is still free and you can have sex multiple times. Where in P4P, you are out of money and usually just a 1 hour only thrill. Just saying, it all tends to balance out.