Champs-Elysees - Should've said no and left

[speedyboi]

Got to be fair here, the whole chain specializes in older ladies and that’s what people go there for. I don’t think I’ve ever met a provider at one of their stores that wasn’t over 40, and pretty sure even those ones were actually over 50, but looked young for their age.

I understand that it's a shop with older lady niche, but surely the word MILF could still be applied to one of these fine ladies. If I wanted to look for better looking girls, I would've known better. The point is to find that diamond in the rough that I could visit repeatedly without breaking my wallet.

I can handle old grannies, they just need to look decent (at least for my eyes) and not be a dead fish. I'm very sure you don't have to have a face and/or technique that would put Julia or Sawamura Reiko to shame.

You should go back and try Rei. She might be just normal quality most places, but in that group, she stands out for being relatively young and undeniably slim. More than adequate skills also.

Nice. I'll take that advice and book for her again next time I'm in Tokyo. and im making sure im arriving on time for this.

In Japan showing up on time is a given. You're costing the girl and the shop precious time because they are often booked into fixed time slots if they are busy. Please don't do this. [REDACTED] The girls always tell me to call ahead if I'm going to be late or I need to cancel. One showed me her schedule (a piece of paper printed on a printer) and the time slots are fixed and they pack them in when the girl is popular.

I hope I didn't come off as too harsh. The point is, many foreigners don't know how things really work in Japan and they think their behavior will gain a pass because they are foreigners. [REDACTED]

The unwritten rules in Japan are difficult to decode, I get that. It takes a lot of observation, motivation and dedication to learn the routine of how things REALLY work here. The fact he did not inform them he was late up front and they had to figure that out by checking and double checking their appt book must have really pissed them off. I know some of the tencho personally and the entire chain employs the best in the business. They are professional, dedicated and honorable. This little episode as described made me cringe.

I think I get the "Showing up on time is a given" rule is an absolute one. Not very hard to deduce when its one of Japan's stereotypes, besides "hardworking" and "technologically advanced". The problem is, you know its a rule, but you never get the "feel" of how harsh the rule is being uphold. Like gambling laws that allows pachinko, or the prostitution law that allows FS. Now you may start screaming BUT ITS DIFFERENT!!!111!!! as much as you want, but this is one of those rules that you have break first to realize the gravity of what you have done. Thankfully, getting fingered in the ass by a granny is a harsh enough consequence and I can guarantee you that this experience will both remind (and haunt) me to be punctual.

 

[MikeH]

Thankfully, getting fingered in the ass by a granny is a harsh enough consequence

You ain't fooling nobody. We all know next time you will be late on purpose. Just bring her latex gloves as present, will ya?

 

[Acid Burn]

...the worse part is getting fingered in the ass

She just shoved it in? She didn’t feel out your reaction to finger about to enter butthole before going all in? You didn’t stop her? A simple ‘eh?!’ and squeeze your buttcheeks together like you’re surprised should’ve worked to flag your uncomfortableness.

The problem is, you know its a rule, but you never get the "feel" of how harsh the rule is being uphold.

Trains apologize after a few minutes late. And you get a delay certificate after 5 mins. I’m glad they didn’t hold her back for your lateness. This kind of stuff pisses me off in western settings with normal massages where the late late guy before me gets allowed his session at full duration thereby pushing my session later and/or shorter.

I think I get the "Showing up on time is a given" rule is an absolute one... but this is one of those rules that you have break first to realize the gravity of what you have done.

So you have to be punished first to realize the how serious someplace is of a rule??

 

[speedyboi]

You ain't fooling nobody. We all know next time you will be late on purpose. Just bring her latex gloves as present, will ya?

Of course. Where else would you get a rubdown with a free anus check

She just shoved it in? She didn’t feel out your reaction to finger about to enter butthole before going all in? You didn’t stop her? A simple ‘eh?!’ and squeeze your buttcheeks together like you’re surprised should’ve worked to flag your uncomfortableness.

I guess licking around your ass should be a red flag, but i expect her to at least say something. Guess I was wrong

So you have to be punished first to realize the how serious someplace is of a rule??

Well....... I learn my lesson ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[homer69]

I understand that it's a shop with older lady niche, but surely the word MILF could still be applied to one of these fine ladies. If I wanted to look for better looking girls, I would've known better. The point is to find that diamond in the rough that I could visit repeatedly without breaking my wallet.

I can handle old grannies, they just need to look decent (at least for my eyes) and not be a dead fish. I'm very sure you don't have to have a face and/or technique that would put Julia or Sawamura Reiko to shame.



Nice. I'll take that advice and book for her again next time I'm in Tokyo. and im making sure im arriving on time for this.





I think I get the "Showing up on time is a given" rule is an absolute one. Not very hard to deduce when its one of Japan's stereotypes, besides "hardworking" and "technologically advanced". The problem is, you know its a rule, but you never get the "feel" of how harsh the rule is being uphold. Like gambling laws that allows pachinko, or the prostitution law that allows FS. Now you may start screaming BUT ITS DIFFERENT!!!111!!! as much as you want, but this is one of those rules that you have break first to realize the gravity of what you have done. Thankfully, getting fingered in the ass by a granny is a harsh enough consequence and I can guarantee you that this experience will both remind (and haunt) me to be punctual.

Being late is not the offense here. It happens. Having a reservation, showing up late without calling ahead, without letting them know you were late when you showed up, and not showing extreme contrition and lastly acting entitled after being late is the serious breach that occurred. It was your attitude in handling the matter, not the act of being late.

At a minimum you should have anxiously and graciously offered the lady ¥5000 as a gesture of contrition (it would have been refused for sure but it shows good faith) for her potential loss of the time slot. This is how things work in Japan. It’s a choreographed act but it is the right thing to do.

It happened to me once, I was 5 minutes late due to a suicide on the Chuo Line. I called ahead and let them know. I usually arrive in the area well ahead of time so my buffer was eaten up by the train delay and I knew it would be close. They actually held the lady for me and I offered to pay for two slots, feeling extremely embarrassed and respectful of her time. Tencho smiled and told me it’s not necessary and that I’m a good customer (which I am) and not to worry about it.

Regarding your gambling and pachinko observations, good catch but you don’t know about the loophole, right? The cash payout is done by a separate business not officially connected to the parlor. They just pay you fair cash value for your tokens or tickets. Nothing illegal about this.

Soaplands facilitate FS because the ladies are independent contractors and the act is between consenting adults, perfectly legal.

 

[DireWolf98]

Being late is not the offense here. It happens. Having a reservation, showing up late without calling ahead, without letting them know you were late when you showed up, and not showing extreme contrition and lastly acting entitled after being late is the serious breach that occurred. It was your attitude in handling the matter, not the act of being late.

At a minimum you should have anxiously and graciously offered the lady ¥5000 as a gesture of contrition (it would have been refused for sure but it shows good faith) for her potential loss of the time slot. This is how things work in Japan. It’s a choreographed act but it is the right thing to do.

It happened to me once, I was 5 minutes late due to a suicide on the Chuo Line. I called ahead and let them know. I usually arrive in the area well ahead of time so my buffer was eaten up by the train delay and I knew it would be close. They actually held the lady for me and I offered to pay for two slots, feeling extremely embarrassed and respectful of her time. Tencho smiled and told me it’s not necessary and that I’m a good customer (which I am) and not to worry about it.

Regarding your gambling and pachinko observations, good catch but you don’t know about the loophole, right? The cash payout is done by a separate business not officially connected to the parlor. They just pay you fair cash value for your tokens or tickets. Nothing illegal about this.

Soaplands facilitate FS because the ladies are independent contractors and the act is between consenting adults, perfectly legal.

@homer69 - thank you!

Neophytes, please take note: this is the exact attitude to adopt and approach to take. Make this part of your Standard Operating Procedure.

Also, @homer69 is 100% correct about the fallacious assumptions about Pachinko and Soaplands offered by @speedyboi

 

[DireWolf98]

Like gambling laws that allows pachinko, or the prostitution law that allows FS. Now you may start screaming BUT ITS DIFFERENT!!!111!!! as much as you want, but this is one of those rules that you have break first to realize the gravity of what you have done.

Fallacious assumptions aside, please note: most of us are mature adults who don’t scream - especially in Japan. I don’t scream unless I’m stabbed, shot or my foot is stuck in a Bear Trap.

Also, CapsLock off please, rook. There’s no need to shout at the people here who are trying to help you. I couldn’t imagine Kyler Murray shouting at Kliff Kingsbury.

 

[Lars Lust]

Soaplands facilitate FS because the ladies are independent contractors and the act is between consenting adults, perfectly legal.

Fair enough. But how do places like Tobita get away with it?

 

[Sudsy]

Fair enough. But how do places like Tobita get away with it?

They definitely do not bribe the police. They would never do that. And naturally, they would never consider blackmailing a politician, or making illegal contributions to their campaign funds. Never, never, never.

But yeah, they’ve totally been doing that for decades.

 

[Lukes]

They definitely do not bribe the police. They would never do that. And naturally, they would never consider blackmailing a politician, or making illegal contributions to their campaign funds. Never, never, never.

But yeah, they’ve totally been doing that for decades.

Probably the one instance where corruption actually benefits us.

 

[warubuta]

All this talk about how to act Japanese, how to apologize, how to show consideration, how to do this and that when you are five fucking minutes late to a blowjob appointment has got my stomach upset. I am not going to say that any of it is wrong, but I am going to say that it is undignified. That’s right, undignified. The Buta’s Policy in this situation would be to say he is sorry and then let the sleaze bag Tencho make the next move. Never, ever let the sleaze bag Tencho get the upper hand. And always maintain your dignity for the sake of other gaijin who may follow in your footsteps.

 

[nihonzuki]

Got to be fair here, the whole chain specializes in older ladies and that’s what people go there for. I don’t think I’ve ever met a provider at one of their stores that wasn’t over 40, and pretty sure even those ones were actually over 50, but looked young for their age.

Most of them are "matronly" but I've had a couple of younger ones although slender ones of any age seem rare.

 

[homer69]

All this talk about how to act Japanese, how to apologize, how to show consideration, how to do this and that when you are five fucking minutes late to a blowjob appointment has got my stomach upset. I am not going to say that any of it is wrong, but I am going to say that it is undignified. That’s right, undignified. The Buta’s Policy in this situation would be to say he is sorry and then let the sleaze bag Tencho make the next move. Never, ever let the sleaze bag Tencho get the upper hand. And always maintain your dignity for the sake of other gaijin who may follow in your footsteps.

You are a guest and they have the right to refuse service to you. If you view behavioral norms as undignified then you don't need to partake in the activity. Try showing up late to court in the US and when the judge throws you in jail for refusing to show contrition and refusing the apologize and grovel before the bench then sit out your contempt citation and chew on it for awhile. Rules are rules. It works the same way before a magistrate in the UK. The tencho has absolute authority to accept or reject your business. You're not entitled to anything. You may consider it undignified by foreigner norms but this attitude is the reason why we foreigners get rejected at so many places. They don't want to deal with this attitude. If something escalates it creates a bad situation for customers, the girls and the business. Most places don't want to deal with us. This is what sickens me. A few idiots ruin it for the rest of us. They show up drunk, they show up with friends or in a group, they show up talking loud or aggressively, you name it. I have never, and I mean never seen a Japanese ever get out of line at any fuzoku business. I mean never. It just doesn't happen. The level of politeness is beyond believable, even when there is an issue. Nobody loses face, everything continues to function and they move on.

仕方がない. That's the way things work.

 

[homer69]

Fair enough. But how do places like Tobita get away with it?

The shops in Tobita are technically restaurants and the girls are waitresses. It is well documented online. Here's one: https://osakabros.com/definitive-guide-tobita-shinchi-osaka-foreigners/

 

[Frenchy]

The shops in Tobita are technically restaurants and the girls are waitresses. It is well documented online. Here's one: https://osakabros.com/definitive-guide-tobita-shinchi-osaka-foreigners/

Ah ah! Didnt know that! So can we review them as restaurants on Yelp or TripAdvisor?
« i was really disappointed, they had only pussy and tongue on the menu, didnt taste that great, not hot enough » etc

 

[MikeH]

Ah ah! Didnt know that! So can we review them as restaurants on Yelp or TripAdvisor?

If you get caught by your girlfriend at least you can claim you went there for the fried rice only?

 

[Acid Burn]

If you get caught by your girlfriend at least you can claim you went there for the fried rice only?

Or the maguro.

 

[warubuta]

You are a guest and they have the right to refuse service to you. If you view behavioral norms as undignified then you don't need to partake in the activity. Try showing up late to court in the US and when the judge throws you in jail for refusing to show contrition and refusing the apologize and grovel before the bench then sit out your contempt citation and chew on it for awhile. Rules are rules. It works the same way before a magistrate in the UK. The tencho has absolute authority to accept or reject your business. You're not entitled to anything. You may consider it undignified by foreigner norms but this attitude is the reason why we foreigners get rejected at so many places. They don't want to deal with this attitude. If something escalates it creates a bad situation for customers, the girls and the business. Most places don't want to deal with us. This is what sickens me. A few idiots ruin it for the rest of us. They show up drunk, they show up with friends or in a group, they show up talking loud or aggressively, you name it. I have never, and I mean never seen a Japanese ever get out of line at any fuzoku business. I mean never. It just doesn't happen. The level of politeness is beyond believable, even when there is an issue. Nobody loses face, everything continues to function and they move on.

仕方がない. That's the way things work.

The Buta is never a guest in a brothel, he is a paying customer.

Phrases like ‘normative behavior’ are generally used by misguided authoritarian-types who somehow think they are the ones who get to decide what ‘normative’ is and they get to foist it on everyone else.

I find your comparison of a court of law to a knock shop absolutely hilarious. Were you the guy I saw solemnly swearing on the Bible at Sexy Kat?

In my experience, which is ‘normative’ only for me but seems to align with everyone I know, a simple basic apology is all that is ever required if you are a few minutes late to a blowjob. Groveling, or offering money in compensation is not required and seems like a bad idea to me, but I don’t really care what others do.

Drunk, loud and with friends are all behaviors that I have witnessed multiple times exhibited by Japanese men. In every case the Tencho just fucking dealt with it or asked the bad actors to leave. No big deal.

So you and I are different people, have had different experiences and behave differently in fuzoku. The difference is that I don’t try to establish my behavior as ‘normative’, and I don’t foist it on others. This is supposed to be a fun hobby. Use common sense. Don’t be a dick. That is what I do.

 

[TheScientist]

Were you the guy I saw solemnly swearing on the Bible at Sexy Kat?

That was me.

 

[homer69]

The Buta is never a guest in a brothel, he is a paying customer.

Phrases like ‘normative behavior’ are generally used by misguided authoritarian-types who somehow think they are the ones who get to decide what ‘normative’ is and they get to foist it on everyone else.

I find your comparison of a court of law to a knock shop absolutely hilarious. Were you the guy I saw solemnly swearing on the Bible at Sexy Kat?

In my experience, which is ‘normative’ only for me but seems to align with everyone I know, a simple basic apology is all that is ever required if you are a few minutes late to a blowjob. Groveling, or offering money in compensation is not required and seems like a bad idea to me, but I don’t really care what others do.

Drunk, loud and with friends are all behaviors that I have witnessed multiple times exhibited by Japanese men. In every case the Tencho just fucking dealt with it or asked the bad actors to leave. No big deal.

So you and I are different people, have had different experiences and behave differently in fuzoku. The difference is that I don’t try to establish my behavior as ‘normative’, and I don’t foist it on others. This is supposed to be a fun hobby. Use common sense. Don’t be a dick. That is what I do.

I think we agree, especially about, "Don't be a dick." It is just a matter of how we define what being a dick is.

There is probably something you're not considering here regarding the powers of the tencho. Almost every established entertainment business in almost every RLD is a member of some sort of a neighborhood association. One of the services those neighborhood associations usually provide is the same function that in the west might be considered private security. A friend of mine co-owns a bar in Chuo-ku, a modest bar that caters to a specific group of people. His neighborhood association controls the distribution of certain goods and services that he buys through the association, in his case bar towels and napkins. Doesn't sound like much and the price premium is something like 5%-10% over market price. There is an understanding that he will purchase exclusively through this distribution channel. For this loyalty he has a phone number he or any of his employees can call 7x24 and a security guard or guards will show up, usually in 1-2 minutes. He never has serious trouble at his bar and when there is a skirmish or a drunk who gets out of line the security takes care of the problem and if necessary the keisatsu is called in to make an arrest. They don't call the cops in these places, there is an understanding that private security will take care of things. I'll let one's imagination figure out who controls the private security and compulsory distribution channels.

In the US it is similar to how cheese is distributed to pizza parlors.

Some tencho are assholes. They can behave this way because they have a big hammer they can call in if there is trouble. Just sayin'....

 

[warubuta]

I think we agree, especially about, "Don't be a dick." It is just a matter of how we define what being a dick is.

There is probably something you're not considering here regarding the powers of the tencho. Almost every established entertainment business in almost every RLD is a member of some sort of a neighborhood association. One of the services those neighborhood associations usually provide is the same function that in the west might be considered private security. A friend of mine co-owns a bar in Chuo-ku, a modest bar that caters to a specific group of people. His neighborhood association controls the distribution of certain goods and services that he buys through the association, in his case bar towels and napkins. Doesn't sound like much and the price premium is something like 5%-10% over market price. There is an understanding that he will purchase exclusively through this distribution channel. For this loyalty he has a phone number he or any of his employees can call 7x24 and a security guard or guards will show up, usually in 1-2 minutes. He never has serious trouble at his bar and when there is a skirmish or a drunk who gets out of line the security takes care of the problem and if necessary the keisatsu is called in to make an arrest. They don't call the cops in these places, there is an understanding that private security will take care of things. I'll let one's imagination figure out who controls the private security and compulsory distribution channels.

In the US it is similar to how cheese is distributed to pizza parlors.

Some tencho are assholes. They can behave this way because they have a big hammer they can call in if there is trouble. Just sayin'....

Are you a teacher?

 

[homer69]

Are you a teacher?

No, I'm a consultant and one thing I have to deal with is making sure my foreign clients don't waste time and money when they do business in Japan but at the same time don't get impatient with the way things are done here. The system is setup to be taken advantage of and to make nice profits if you have something Japan, Inc. or the government wants. Your attitude of "Don't be a dick" gets you half the way there. The other half is akin to learning how to bow and everything else that goes along with that. If you think the Japanese like that part of it you are mistaken, they mostly hate it but it is what it is and it is the way things are done and groveling is part of the accepted norm, including making stupid apologies for something that is not really your fault and not justified in the western mindset. I don't usually tell clients this directly, I usually tell them to be humble, to go with the flow and to excuse yourself (one of the abuses of "sumimasen" in my opinion) for who you are or what you did even if it seems excessive.

One time long ago, a Japanese expat friend who was in Canada for a year came back to Japan and the first thing the bucho said was, "Sato-san, you gained weight in Canada, the food must be really good over there." To my surprise, my friend apologized profusely for eating too much and not working hard enough while he was in Canada, even though it was a pile of BS. I asked him about it later and he explained it is like reading a form letter. You respond accordingly, the director gets a shot in and the poor salaryman gets put into his place and welcomed back to Japan. It is the way things work in Japanese society. You don't need to participate in this dance but if you do it makes life much easier for yourself here.

 

[warubuta]

No, I'm a consultant and one thing I have to deal with is making sure my foreign clients don't waste time and money when they do business in Japan but at the same time don't get impatient with the way things are done here. The system is setup to be taken advantage of and to make nice profits if you have something Japan, Inc. or the government wants. Your attitude of "Don't be a dick" gets you half the way there. The other half is akin to learning how to bow and everything else that goes along with that. If you think the Japanese like that part of it you are mistaken, they mostly hate it but it is what it is and it is the way things are done and groveling is part of the accepted norm, including making stupid apologies for something that is not really your fault and not justified in the western mindset. I don't usually tell clients this directly, I usually tell them to be humble, to go with the flow and to excuse yourself (one of the abuses of "sumimasen" in my opinion) for who you are or what you did even if it seems excessive.

One time long ago, a Japanese expat friend who was in Canada for a year came back to Japan and the first thing the bucho said was, "Sato-san, you gained weight in Canada, the food must be really good over there." To my surprise, my friend apologized profusely for eating too much and not working hard enough while he was in Canada, even though it was a pile of BS. I asked him about it later and he explained it is like reading a form letter. You respond accordingly, the director gets a shot in and the poor salaryman gets put into his place and welcomed back to Japan. It is the way things work in Japanese society. You don't need to participate in this dance but if you do it makes life much easier for yourself here.

For your future reference when communicating with me, please assume I already know everything you might be thinking of telling me. If you feel you must ignore this request, please try to keep your messages to less that 30 words.

 

[Frenchy]

I think we agree, especially about, "Don't be a dick." It is just a matter of how we define what being a dick is.

There is probably something you're not considering here regarding the powers of the tencho. Almost every established entertainment business in almost every RLD is a member of some sort of a neighborhood association. One of the services those neighborhood associations usually provide is the same function that in the west might be considered private security. A friend of mine co-owns a bar in Chuo-ku, a modest bar that caters to a specific group of people. His neighborhood association controls the distribution of certain goods and services that he buys through the association, in his case bar towels and napkins. Doesn't sound like much and the price premium is something like 5%-10% over market price. There is an understanding that he will purchase exclusively through this distribution channel. For this loyalty he has a phone number he or any of his employees can call 7x24 and a security guard or guards will show up, usually in 1-2 minutes. He never has serious trouble at his bar and when there is a skirmish or a drunk who gets out of line the security takes care of the problem and if necessary the keisatsu is called in to make an arrest. They don't call the cops in these places, there is an understanding that private security will take care of things. I'll let one's imagination figure out who controls the private security and compulsory distribution channels.

In the US it is similar to how cheese is distributed to pizza parlors.

Some tencho are assholes. They can behave this way because they have a big hammer they can call in if there is trouble. Just sayin'....

I thinky that friendly « neighborhood association » may be the Yakuza in fact, the way you describe iwhat they do

 

[warubuta]

I thinky that friendly « neighborhood association » may be the Yakuza in fact, the way you describe iwhat they do

Shit. Now you are going to get a five paragraph detailed clarification of how that is correct but not completely correct. And then the lesson will be brilliantly brought to life with an interesting anecdote or two. Hope you brought a sandwich.