Guest viewing is limited

Date Cafes, Speed Dating, & International Parties

I liked your POST ... very informative !!!



Solong said:
Alternative ways to understanding the basics of PUA.

This can be especially useful for punters or newbies to Japan, who are not clear about how to pickup Japanese women or cultural differences on how to go about it.

Date Cafes (also called Deai Cafes)

http://www.deai-cafe.net/tokyo/
Date/Deai Cafes exists in the middle of P4P/Pay and PUA/Nampa. They are a bit special in this regard and provide an unique experience, which can quickly bring a punter or newbie in Japan up to speed. They also provide more guaranteed of success, for guys that are not used to non-guaranteed interactions between men and women outside the P4P context or can be a less experienced PUA's plan B for that day.

Much of what will be listed, will be true for the free or less costly alternatives of Speed Dating & International Parties.

Similarities to PUA & Lessons To Learn:

1) We are all COMPETING

Many guys don't relaize or are fully cognizant that they are not the only one after a specific woman. Their focus zooms in on a woman, and they think it's all about them. When actually, you were the 3rd guy today to approach her or 3 others will approach after you this day or week.

And on the flip, women are competing with each other too. She's not the only one, that you can approach.

A Date Cafe usually puts all of that in 2 rooms. All the guys in 1 room, and all the women in another. Speed Dating & International Parties in 1 room. You, the guy, can now see all the competition around.

When it comes to getting that woman to choose YOU and not the other guy, how do you stack up? And, why did you choose her and NOT the other women?

2) Appearance; how you present yourself

Now that you know, that you are competing with other men, let's address your appearance. The guy next to you is shaved, smells good, and well dressed. Do you think looking like a homeless guy from off the street will make women want to choose you?

It now becomes much more apparent, even with women that you are negotiating P4P with, that how you look and present yourself counts. And it's NOT the best looking guy always win. It's the COMBINATION of how you dress, talk, possibly language ability (Japan), personality, and what you are offering her. What are you showing her that's better than what other guys are offering? What is she showing you, that's better than what other women are showing?

3) Body Language & Facial Expressions

This is especially important for guys not familiar to PUA. In many Date Cafes there are 2 way mirrors. It gives a unique opportunity to study women. How they dress, make up, fashion.... What is it that you like about a woman/Japanese woman? At Speed Dating Parties or International Parties, you can STUDY how women react to guys approaching them. Not just negative reactions, but the positive female reactions too.

After you had 1 on 1 time or conversations with a woman, think about her face and body language, and how she reacted to what you said.

4) Negotiations

Something great about Date Cafes, is they make negotiating more obvious than even social events or regular dates. For those that have never tried it, those 5 to 10 minutes can be pressured packed, as the guy tries to convince the woman to leave with him and at the right price.

While negotiations are apparent in that context, many guys aren't mindful that's happening in slower speed on a date too. Instead of 5 or 10 minutes, you have 3 to 6 hours or so to CONVINCE the woman to have SEX with you or start an intimate relationship.

Instead of using money, you are (in a way) selling YOURSELF to her. You have become the currency instead. You are convincing her that you are such a good option (now and in the future), that she wants to reward you with sex or she wants to start a special relationship, in order to keep you around and not go elsewhere to other women.

When a man understands that he's presenting himself and in a negotiation to convince a woman, then he has greater awarness over others that don't. To include having greater awarness than many women he is talking to on a date, thus he has the advantage. The first objective is to convince her (or her subconscious mind) that she would want to have sex or start a special relationship with you, before you actually have sex.

5) Language

The great thing about Date Cafes or Speed Dating/International Parties, is they are a great opportunity to practice your Japanese and conversational skills. These are the SAME skills a guy would use in PUA/Nampa.

Note- If you get a woman's e-mail or LINE ID, you can use the messaging to practice your Japanese too. Google Translate and smartphone language dictionaries are your friend.

6) Planning Where To Take Her

So she leaves with you from the Date Cafe or Speed Dating event, and now where do you go?

Even in the P4P context, there is no escaping planning. Which Date Cafe or Dating Party to go to? What's around that area? What restaurants and hotels are nearby? Instead of running from it and being that clueless guy where a woman is wondering what the hell is wrong with you, be like a BOSS.

The guy that plans out things in advance has the advantage. The difference for PUA between a Date Cafe or Speed Dating/International Party, is the guy should be doing a bit more planning about the location in advance. When you invite a woman out on a date, you should be very familiar about the area. It should be an area that you, the guy, chose.

7) The Jump To PUA

After a guy has done Date Cafes or these Date Party events several times, a guy can be much more clear about what's going on with Japanese women.

The jump is that instead of thinking you need to go to a particular place to "get women", you can open your mind and realize that you can meet women ANYWHERE. You can have a conversation with a woman at the 7-11 or McDonalds, get her confact info, and then ask her out on a date.
Click to expand...
 
tl;dr

I have been to one of these events in Roppongi way back when. It was pretty useless. They are analogous to those job recruiting fairs who are just out there to enjoy a day out of the office.

You have a higher % to pull going to a gaijin type of bars out in the Tokyo playground. Probably cleaner and more trimmed snatch too :)

Ps. If you can go to a forum event out a Tokyo Big Sight, they are very fertile areas for picking up. Last one I was at I zoomed in on a few race queen rejects handing out company trinkets. You are in your "I mean business suit" and handing out your rockstar business cards, you cannot NOT get numbers and you know what these girls look like because their outfits are skimpy. Much more productive than the date cafe or int`l party.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sinapse
I went to K. cafe in Shinjuku recently and I didn't even bother to waste time with the going out part. I didn't want extra costs of entertainment anyhow. I saw one girl in there at least 20 minutes and not make a deal with at least 1 guy (it was about 9pm Sat night). I asked the girl I picked what she wants to do. I couldn't quite understand, but I thought she said "talk". I was calm as this was my 2nd encounter in such place, and she was calm. After she asked me, I just said "hoteru iketai." and that was about 1 minute into the meeting. We immediately started negotiating. I believe I started at 20,000 (just to save her dignity - stupid move) but now realize after only the second offer of 22,500 and she immediately accepted, I should have started much lower. I wanted to get straight to the point and know that fs was involved and she said the magic word upfront. I wonder if I go in with this direct route each time if I might get slapped by a girl not wanting what I want. But it sure worked in this case.

Was it worth it? Well, she was a little cheap on the performance time kind of like Chinese do in China. She somewhat milked the time in the hotel by talking, and oral was ok but not more than a few minutes with nice sucking sounds. Good point is she ended up spending some post hotel time together at a bar before going home - of which I found out she's looking for a sugar daddy.
 
Last edited:
20K is their ideal target for the girls.

You can get 100% of the girls at Kirari at 20K.

I'm been able to get 5K several times. I would say 85-90% of the girls would take 15K.

split said:
wonder if I go in with this direct route each time if I might get slapped by a girl not wanting what I want.
Click to expand...

At these deai cafe places, the girls that go there are expecting to play.
 
OK thanks! I figured I payed too much. Given this was my first take-out and on the very first visit a gorgeous girl said 30,000 and I was unable to even negotiate I know better now. Also a Japanese customer said that 15k was a normal offer. 5k...wow!
 
I guess if they work for an agency the girls are only paid around half of the fee. On that basis 15,000 yen must seem fairly decent. Another point is that girls can reject or accept who they want which must increase job satisfaction - they can avoid anyone they don't like the look of.
 
shammykun said:
tl;dr

I have been to one of these events in Roppongi way back when. It was pretty useless. They are analogous to those job recruiting fairs who are just out there to enjoy a day out of the office.

You have a higher % to pull going to a gaijin type of bars out in the Tokyo playground. Probably cleaner and more trimmed snatch too :)

Ps. If you can go to a forum event out a Tokyo Big Sight, they are very fertile areas for picking up. Last one I was at I zoomed in on a few race queen rejects handing out company trinkets. You are in your "I mean business suit" and handing out your rockstar business cards, you cannot NOT get numbers and you know what these girls look like because their outfits are skimpy. Much more productive than the date cafe or int`l party.
Click to expand...

Can you tell us a little more about these forum events at Tokyo Big Sight?
 
They are mostly trade events, so if your industry has events on there then you may get an invite to attend. Some of them you can just sign up to though. Do a web search on Tokyo Big Sight convention center.

I went to one recently, was with work colleagues all day, but did manage to escape long enough to be chatted up by one of the women.
 
Thanks to Solong and everyone else who shared their advice and experiences using Kirari. I decided to go their for the first time today since I had the day off from work. I have used P4P services like JK-Style, OL-Style, Asian Mystique, New Hot Point, and Tokyo Style but after reading this thread I wanted to see if I could score without breaking the bank. I went to the Shinjuku Main Office Kirari right at opening time which was pretty much a mistake since there was no one in there except me. At around 11 the first girls came in and they were a mix of pros, girls with friends, and total weirdos. I followed Solong's advice and avoided the girls in the group because I knew they would try to short change me on the time. I talked with the one girl that seemed normal but she struck me down for hotel play since she only wanted only a lunch date. In the end she refused my offer for lunch maybe because she was scared to talk to a foreigner. My Japanese is not perfect but good enough to hold a decent conversation. Since I was short on time, had to meet some friends for coffee and helping them move to a new place in Nakano, I decided to try one of the pros out. She was 22 and half British so there was some communication in Japanese and English which made negotiations easier. We decided on 2 hours for hotel play for 20,000 yen. We headed over to Pasha Resorts and when we entered the room I felt the whole thing as rushed. The shower was more like power spraying a wall. She did allow me to play with her perfect tits while in the shower and she gave me a good handjob while we showered, but it felt like she was literally on the clock. Bed action was a bit better since I took control and slowed things down. She gave a good BBJ and she made these fake porn moans when I went down on her. During actual sex she was a bit more into it, well at least I thought she was until I popped once. After that first pop it was, "Oh my god so much, let's go take a bath" WTF I was ready for another go at it, but she wanted to take a bath to end things. We talked in the tub and then later in bed but again it felt rushed. In the end she wanted to end things at 1.5 hours so I said fine, but it would only be 15,000 yen since I didn't get my full two hours. She agreed and we agreed to exchange Line info as we checked out of the LH and went our separate ways. In the end it was a mixed result for the first time but I want to try again the next time I am free and in Tokyo. She may be worth an hour of LH romping if she reads any Line messages I send her. Thanks again to all the advice on this thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: just4fun and MossBoss
Decided to try Kirari again on Halloween night and that was a huge mistake....The two Shinjuku shops, Main Office and the one in the basement of the same building as New Hot Point and Momocafe, were total duds from 6:30 to 9:30. I talked to the only two girls at the the Main Office and one basically refused to enter when she saw I was a foreigner, and the other was a total shallow gold digger that was not worth the time. The other shop had four girls, but they looked like pros and heavy smokers which I am not into. I ended up going to New Hot Point for a CBJ from Homura since it was their Halloween Event. I still felt horny as hell so I decided to try the Shibuya shops since I have never been there. Damn was that stupid. I guess my old brain doesn't process as fast as it use to because I should have released that the mass of humanity overtaking Shibuya on Halloween night would not allow for people to make their way easily through the area. By the time I arrived at the Shibuya shop closest to 109 it was past 10:40 and there were no girls there. I stayed until about 11:30 when a heifer decided to try to see if any desperate guys would bite. No Thanks...Halloween was a bit of punt...Live and learn...
 
After some time away from the P4P scene I decided to try Kirari for a third time because I was in Tokyo for business on January 30th. The pickings were a bit slim at noon. I was able to ask a 32 year old who was there who had a great body but some god awful teeth. She did not want to go the hotel play route so we went out to lunch for 5000 yen. We enjoyed a nice sabu sabu place in Shinjuku and talked for over an hour. We ended up exchanging email and Line addresses so hopefully it leads to some future changes to enjoy conversations and time together. Hopefully for something more as well. The mistake I made was returning to the same Kirari local (Shinjuku Main) after hitting the others in Shinjuku without luck. The pro that was there was still available even though she was gorgeous body wise, but face wise she was about a 5 or 6. I decided to try her since I was lacking in the sex department because my wife is no longer willing to have sex. I really regret wasting my 20k on this one....She takes me to Pasha Resorts where we wait a few since the place is booked. Once there we don't shower together and she does want to kiss or do any sort of foreplay. I ask if I can go down on her, but she says she is not sensitive down there but I can do if I want. After she sensed I was not happy with her indifference while I was giving her oral, she decides to give me a BBJ with a spit lube tug job. I am not as young as I use to be and I have some ED because of the diabetes I have so my cock was not as stiff as it could have been. So she when I was not up for the job, she decided to give me a hand job until I was about to cum, to which she freaked and scrambled to place a condom on before I shot my load. Her body was amazing and her pussy tasted great, but her attitude was a real turn off. The final 45 minutes were lost because I got a call from work asking me to come back because one of my coworkers was coming in. So in the end I paid 20k for 1 hour and 15 minutes of unenjoyable play time. I need to go back to using delivery health or other forms of P4P. This one was a total bust.
 
  • Like
Reactions: split and DJV
So for you a deai cafe is close to pick up but guys doing cold approach on the street starting a conversation with "how much" is not?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJV
Solong said:
I have a developed eye, from PUA and swinging, for picking out which women are pros, amateurs, or a stronger possibility for a better time. Definitely, I'm not infallible and can be mistaken, but I will usually have better odds than average. I mentioned this before, about some differences in another Deai thread, but will try to give examples here. You can't be exact about it, because part of it is a feeling and vibe about the woman.

Pros & Veterans at Date Cafes:

. More likely to be wearing heavy makeup
. More likely to be wearing perfume
. Tend to be older, but younger women can be pros
. Tend to have a harder look about them. A more veteran or "seen it all" type look.
. Tend to be more vain and narcissistic about their appearance. Looking in mirrors, doing their hair, doing their make up, etc...
. Tend to know a lot of people in the shop, other girls and staff.
. Tend to be more into fashion or wearing brand names... Gives off a materialistic vibe
. Less likely to be in college. Note- even if young, she might not be in college.
. Tendency to look you directly in the eye and tendency towards arrogance
. Likely to know other date cafes, claim will be working tonight, needs to meet "friend" later, or some upfront comment or complaint about time.

Note- A pro or experienced veteran may have just one or some of these attributes and not necessarily all.

Amateurs & newbies at Date Cafes:

. Tend not to be wearing heavy makeup or perfume
. Tendency to have a normal job or be in college
. Clothes tend to reflect what she says she does. Looks like an OL, college student, or housewife...
. Have a softer, "What do I do next?" look.
. More humble, unsure, curious, adventure/thrill seeker, or excited in behavior
. Tendency to not look you in the eye. More submissive or less confrontational behavior
. Will give a more date-like vibe in behavior and conversation

Negotiations & hotels with Date Cafe Girls

You can try to go very low, or go high. "Hey, I know you will be just sitting here doing nothing, so have some fun with me. I'll give you 40,000 yen, but for 4 hours (still 10,000 per 1 hour). Let's drink for a little while at this private bar close by." And you could take her to a happening bar, explaining a bit more on the way, or even just a regular bar. You can explain to the Date Cafe women that you want a bar and hotel date, then negotiate the time in that context. 20,000 yen for 2 hours. 1 hour at the bar, then 1 hour at the hotel. You have to throw out what you want on the negotiation table.

Remember, that when you agree to the hotel, you don't pay until you are in the hotel. This gives you more leverage and especially for a bigger payout.

Note- The key here is that you have to be conscious of the last train, day of week, number of other guys in the room, etc.... Many younger women will want to be heading home or to their hostess job, so want to be finished at 10pm or 11pm. If you want a 3 or 4 hour date, calculate the time from then or go very early. If you question her and find out she's an OL who is off Saturday, and it's Friday, then you can try to keep her all night. It's not just skill, but your luck too.

At the hotel, if you established strong rapport with her, she might give you her LINE contact. Then setting up a date with her, is much easier and outside the limits of the Date Cafe. You have more flexibility on places to take her.

It's up to you to enforce agreed upon time. If she wants to leave early, tell her that she needs to give back some money for breaking the agreement. Since you are leaving 30 minutes early, 5,000 yen discount. Usually, the woman won't get up and leave, but ask your permission first.

Date Cafe Location, Day Of the Week, & Time Of the Day

If you are not able to pull what you want from a particular Date Cafe, you do have the option to try others. Be mindful of what you want to do, in relationship to other factors. You might need to try a different day or time too.

PUA VS Date Cafe

Remember if you make the jump to PUA, that there is usually less restrictions on length of time and locations to take your date. So if you feel the situation in the Date Cafes is too restrictive or you are not finding what you want, you can try PUA. The next step closest to Date Cafes, would be Speed Dating & International Parties. What you learned to do in Date Cafes, you can apply at those events as well. Date Websites, give still more options. Get personal contacts, make dates, and then you try your luck that way.
Click to expand...
Seriously? If a women does her makeup she is "vain and arrogant"? -.-
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tokyo Escort, just4fun and Wwanderer
injp said:
Thank you for this. i want to go to a date cafe tomorrow but i don't fully understand the system. it seems like there are a few types:
  1. you pay an entrance fee of a few thousand yen and then negotiate directly with the woman,　who is basically a free lancer
  2. some cafes seemed to have, exit fees (出掛け金?) of 5000 yen, that you have to pay to the shop in addition to what ever you pay to the girl directly (this seems like it will get too expensive)
  3. some cafes, like hanako, it seems that the ladies get a fixed wage for being there from the shop, and they even have a schedule and photos on the site. it doesn't seem like those girls are going to o anywhere with you
do you have a specific shop you ｒｅｃｏｍｅｎｄ? i saw the other thread but could not pick out the preffered shops

thanks for any help and i will report back how it goes
Click to expand...
When i went to try Hanako in Shinjuku nobody went out... But appearantly it was normal to have sex in the boxes for 10k~15k for a quicky or get a 5k blowjob..
All i did was show a guy my boobs for 3k and let him feel me up a little, then i went away with no intention of comming back.
Appearantly that place it closed now. I wonder why.. Lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wwanderer, Sudsy and injp
Solong said:
I have a developed eye, from PUA and swinging, for picking out which women are pros, amateurs, or a stronger possibility for a better time. Definitely, I'm not infallible and can be mistaken, but I will usually have better odds than average. I mentioned this before, about some differences in another Deai thread, but will try to give examples here. You can't be exact about it, because part of it is a feeling and vibe about the woman.

Pros & Veterans at Date Cafes:

. More likely to be wearing heavy makeup
. More likely to be wearing perfume
. Tend to be older, but younger women can be pros
. Tend to have a harder look about them. A more veteran or "seen it all" type look.
. Tend to be more vain and narcissistic about their appearance. Looking in mirrors, doing their hair, doing their make up, etc...
. Tend to know a lot of people in the shop, other girls and staff.
. Tend to be more into fashion or wearing brand names... Gives off a materialistic vibe
. Less likely to be in college. Note- even if young, she might not be in college.
. Tendency to look you directly in the eye and tendency towards arrogance
. Likely to know other date cafes, claim will be working tonight, needs to meet "friend" later, or some upfront comment or complaint about time.

Note- A pro or experienced veteran may have just one or some of these attributes and not necessarily all.

Amateurs & newbies at Date Cafes:

. Tend not to be wearing heavy makeup or perfume
. Tendency to have a normal job or be in college
. Clothes tend to reflect what she says she does. Looks like an OL, college student, or housewife...
. Have a softer, "What do I do next?" look.
. More humble, unsure, curious, adventure/thrill seeker, or excited in behavior
. Tendency to not look you in the eye. More submissive or less confrontational behavior
. Will give a more date-like vibe in behavior and conversation

Negotiations & hotels with Date Cafe Girls

You can try to go very low, or go high. "Hey, I know you will be just sitting here doing nothing, so have some fun with me. I'll give you 40,000 yen, but for 4 hours (still 10,000 per 1 hour). Let's drink for a little while at this private bar close by." And you could take her to a happening bar, explaining a bit more on the way, or even just a regular bar. You can explain to the Date Cafe women that you want a bar and hotel date, then negotiate the time in that context. 20,000 yen for 2 hours. 1 hour at the bar, then 1 hour at the hotel. You have to throw out what you want on the negotiation table.

Remember, that when you agree to the hotel, you don't pay until you are in the hotel. This gives you more leverage and especially for a bigger payout.

Note- The key here is that you have to be conscious of the last train, day of week, number of other guys in the room, etc.... Many younger women will want to be heading home or to their hostess job, so want to be finished at 10pm or 11pm. If you want a 3 or 4 hour date, calculate the time from then or go very early. If you question her and find out she's an OL who is off Saturday, and it's Friday, then you can try to keep her all night. It's not just skill, but your luck too.

At the hotel, if you established strong rapport with her, she might give you her LINE contact. Then setting up a date with her, is much easier and outside the limits of the Date Cafe. You have more flexibility on places to take her.

It's up to you to enforce agreed upon time. If she wants to leave early, tell her that she needs to give back some money for breaking the agreement. Since you are leaving 30 minutes early, 5,000 yen discount. Usually, the woman won't get up and leave, but ask your permission first.

Date Cafe Location, Day Of the Week, & Time Of the Day

If you are not able to pull what you want from a particular Date Cafe, you do have the option to try others. Be mindful of what you want to do, in relationship to other factors. You might need to try a different day or time too.

PUA VS Date Cafe

Remember if you make the jump to PUA, that there is usually less restrictions on length of time and locations to take your date. So if you feel the situation in the Date Cafes is too restrictive or you are not finding what you want, you can try PUA. The next step closest to Date Cafes, would be Speed Dating & International Parties. What you learned to do in Date Cafes, you can apply at those events as well. Date Websites, give still more options. Get personal contacts, make dates, and then you try your luck that way.
Click to expand...
Japanese guys also seem to use this list and be really obsessed with innocent girls (asking how many times i've been to the cafe and such).
So if i go cafe i leave my brand bag (got it from a sugar daddy, i myself don't waste money on those brands) at home and i don't wear makeup (i rarely do anyway).
 
DJV said:
I'll need some to pass the entrance ! I'm so terrible at understanding システム
Then my greatest asset will be my language skills between broken english, manga japanese and native french. You'll definitely need some luck as well
Click to expand...
Depending on what kind of manga/anime you watch that may or may not be easy. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wwanderer and DJV
Allow me to share my current AliceInDeailand fantasy. I wonder if it would be possible for Alice to join me on the men's side of the glass and help me pick out a girl. I would love to get her perspective on the girls looks, attitude, and probable sexual performance. Strolling from Deai cafe to cafe with Alice as your guide sounds like a lovely way to spend the day.

And maybe it will end with a threesome :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: AliceInWonderland
injp said:
Allow me to share my current AliceInDeailand fantasy. I wonder if it would be possible for Alice to join me on the men's side of the glass and help me pick out a girl. I would love to get her perspective on the girls looks, attitude, and probable sexual performance. Strolling from Deai cafe to cafe with Alice as your guide sounds like a lovely way to spend the day.

And maybe it will end with a threesome :)
Click to expand...

You meant Solong, right ?
I would love him as my insecure-immature-dissonance meter :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: just4fun, AliceInWonderland, Wwanderer and 1 other person
injp said:
No, I mean Alice. Is that weird?

Are you saying you want to have a threesome with Solong?
Click to expand...

Having a girl as "wingman with benefits" is certainly awesome : it creates a great deal of possibilities :)

A threesome with Solong : might be a good idea, only would he be ok that I compensate for his service ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: AliceInWonderland and injp
You must log in or register to reply here.