Dating Japanese Women & Problems

[Solong]

This is a list of problems that come from experience and have come up in discussions over the years with guys in Japan who are attempting or are dealing with Japanese women. Feel free to add any truly relevant advice or comments.

1) Is The Japanese Woman Interested In You, Acting Fake, Or Just Polite?

This takes years of experience to be good at or at least make a better guess, and even then you can be wrong, even if another Japanese person.

However, in context to a professional setting (like waitress, hostess, hotel staff, secretary...), don't confuse professional courtesy and politeness with personal attraction towards you. This is a mistake some foreigners make, when new to Japan, because they are not use to women acting (keyword is act) very feminine and/or very polite.

Sometimes the foreigner is not so much mistaken, but being purposely fooled or tricked by a Japanese woman as part of a demented game or for getting attention from men. Be wary of such Japanese women, and don't get pulled into such traps.

So, "actions speak louder than words" (or lack of words). The foreign guy will need to move the interaction along or "push the envelope" until it's clear she truly likes him. Suggest a guy NOT play guessing games (where you chase your own tail for weeks), test her. Her giving you contact info, agreeing to meet, allow touching of or holding hands, hugs, kisses, entering the hotel, etc... are real human demonstrations she really likes you. If she's not doing such, nor has made it verbally clear that she likes you, then assume she doesn't and move on.

2) Japanese Woman Won't Reply To Messages

Attention-whoring and other types might not respond, because they are not interested in you specifically, but simply getting a narcissistic high off of you messaging them. It's can possibly be a demented game for her, and even one in which her silly or childish girlfriends are joining in on. As in how many guys they can trick and fool, or how many messages you will keep sending.

A) After sending 3 messages or no response after 3 days, if she doesn't reply, then delete her contact.

B) Test her by asking a question

If you ask her a question by email or message, and no response, then more strongly consider she's not interested and delete her contact even sooner, within 48 hours or less. It doesn't take an interested and enthusiastic women so long to respond, unless some highly unusual (1 out 1,000) circumstance, like losing her mobile phone or in the hospital.

Don't think she must respond to messages instantly either, particularly on work days. But you usually should see a response within 12 hours or less.

3) She Won't Meet Or Wants To Meet More Than 2 Weeks Later

Out of hundreds of direct approach encounters with Japanese women (combined with hundreds more with friends of mine), if she doesn't want to meet you again within 10 days, I would say she's just not interested or lacks enthusiasm 95% or greater of the time.

The only limited exceptions are her having left the country on travel or being hospitalized, and both can possibly be her lying or playing you for a fool. Usually better to cut her off, delete her contact, and go find a new one.

A mistake many guys make is falling into female attention-whoring traps and getting overly fixated on a woman who is not reciprocating the SAME level of affection and enthusiasm. So hoping against hope. Arguably better that a man not waste his time with such women; usually better to move on.

4) If She Really Likes You, She's Usually Enthusiastic; Sooner Rather than Later

A woman that's into a guy, often has an enthusiasm and excitement, that permeates the interaction. From her smile, responses, willingness to meet, etc... If she is emotionally or interactively cool/cold/calculating, be wary of this.

If she really likes you and is very enthusiastic, unless there is some strong barrier preventing such, sex can happen that 1st day or 1st week. Especially in the adult context of over 20 and/or finished college.

If she's making you wait, often she's NOT so enthusiastic about you and only considering you among her other options of guys she's choosing from or playing with. To include having sex and fun with other guys, but possibly playing you for attention, favors, or money.

5) Guy Failing To Create Sufficient Interest, Rapport, Or Diffuse Her Paranoia

Here, a guy needs to analyze what he is doing, which is very difficult. Many of us never want to find fault with ourselves or we simply overlook things in which we don't see, but others do. Do you stink? Dress terribly? Are you too fat or too skinny? Act too creepy or scary? Lack conversation skills? Trying to just throw money at women (particularly when you don't have it like that) versus developing authentic rapport and emotional connections?

Even if the guy is "dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's", he might be failing at dealing with and minimizing some of her fears. Many of the women you are approaching can be in a state of shock that any guy has approached them, think you a criminal, or even possibly going to rape them (despite how bizarre or remote the possibility). And in Japan, xenophobia and racism among Japanese can multiply the fear, paranoia, and cowardice to higher levels than what a foreign guy can expect in his own or other countries. It is arguably up to the GUY who is approaching, to find ways of diffusing, relaxing, or calming the fears and paranoia in the minds of Japanese women he talks to.

"But, we had a great initial conversation and she didn't respond?" I say, "Was that initial conversation really as great as you think it was?" Many Japanese women will "play along" with a guy with very fake or polite behavior, then rudely NOT respond later.

6) Is She Above, Equal, Or Below Your Level?

This is something that applies not just to guys, but to women too. When a man or woman tries to pull and date people too far above what their physical attractiveness and/or social level is, they can run into greater difficulty. I'm not saying to not reach for the stars or you can't catch "big fish", but a smart person is realistic, and not drowning in Cinderella fantasies or a victim of an overly inflated ego or pride. If you are a 6 or 7, demanding or chasing 9s and 10s, don't be surprised at the problems your dealing with.

Don't be like the angry fat ugly chick (or male reverse with women) trying to only date above her level with Brad Pitt or Denzel Washington types, they have drunk sex with her and leave, then she claims all men are arrogant/egotistical dirt bags. Really? As a dude, are you pulling the male equivalent?

7) Overly Using The Same Place Or Same Dating Website

This is something not often discussed, and is more an issue in less international places in Asia, but is a huge mistake many foreign guys make. They repeatedly keep striking out at a particular place that they assume or heard was "good" or have done well at the place before, then it goes "dry", but they keep trying there out of bad habit.

A guy should arguably have multiple locations, ways, and websites to meet women. In this way, if he goes into a slump or "the well" of responsive women goes dry in one place, then he can easily switch to another or is pulling from multiple sources.

Also foreigners need to keep in mind that various xenophobic or racist Japanese or groups can purposely give you/foreigners going there, the Japanese women talking to you, or that location a bad reputation. Doing this by talking negatively, unknowingly, and badly about you/foreigners behind your back to the Japanese women you are attempting to talk with or speaking negatively about the location you/foreigners are at. Not all Japanese do this, but unfortunately it only takes a few.

So, a foreign guy can be talking to women at a bar/club, and the Japanese bartender or haters (male or female) in the area are telling them that you/foreigners are a/all playboy(s) that come their every night and to watch out. This might be a total cock-blocking hater lie, and your 1st time there or you really can't get a date, but the women he or she is telling this lie to might not realize it. You are finding it very hard to pickup anymore at club X, but don't know that online or in Japanese chat rooms, jealous or racist guys (or women) are calling Japanese women that go there gaijin whores and yellow cabs. Meanwhile, some of the same Japanese guys are lusting after or chasing foreign women.

This is also behavior to shame others or pretend they are helping and protecting others of their race/group when they are not, is a way of trying to control others, and can be a reason why some Japanese women are so apprehensive about talking to foreigners. As she overly fears what others might be thinking and she lacks a strong will or independent thinking. Consequently, foreign guys shouldn't overly rely on any one particular method or place, because that's exactly what jealous or insecure racists and haters can target.

 

[Kegger]

@Solong
Appreciate the time and effort you put into these posts. But once again I think a lot of this is just common sense (or maybe what I've learned from experience has become common sense to me).

1) Is The Japanese Woman Interested In You, Acting Fake, Or Just Polite?

As you mention that those fresh off the boat may mistake the politeness for attraction, but you quickly get over that.

2) Japanese Woman Won't Reply To Messages

I think this belongs under 1). If she is not replying to messages, common sense says she is not interested in you.

3) She Won't Meet Or Wants To Meet More Than 2 Weeks Later

Again, I think this is part of 1). If she is keen to meet you quickly while the attraction is still hot then she is not interested in you.

4) If She Really Likes You, She's Usually Enthusiastic; Sooner Rather than Later

This again is part of 1 and a sub of 3).

For all of the above I still get the impression that you feel there is a whole breed of Japanese women out there who scam and trick dudes. I've been sucked in a couple of times, but still have an overwhelmingly positive attitude towards Japanese women.

And if what you say is true, could some of it be a built up resistance to constantly being hit on by nampa/pua? You have to admit there is something of a double standard here in that it is not OK for these women to use the tools they have available to them in much the same way nampa/pua use the tools available to them to succeed with women

5) Guy Failing To Create Sufficient Interest, Rapport, Or Diffuse Her Paranoia

You've got some good points in there. Especially, your response to the "But, we had a great initial conversation and she didn't respond?"
I think you need a bit of experience in Japan to overcome this one.
And also you need to keep things light and get her laughing. Laughter is the best way to break down any fears you may have. In my experience I've had better luck going with the "kawaii" rather than the staunch "kakkoi" pose.

6) Is She Above, Equal, Or Below Your Level?

While this may be true in a lot of cases, why limit yourself? One man's 5 may be another man's 10. I say, if you like her then just go for it.

7) Overly Using The Same Place Or Same Dating Website

Agree 100% . I have learned this from experience

 

[NormalGuy]

Maybe they are picking up on the fact that you believe everything negative about them is because they are Japanese.

I'm NOT racist against Japanese women. I in fact adore them and Japan.

1) Is The Woman Interested In You, Acting Fake, Or Just Polite?

To summarise, if your waitress is polite, shows good customer service, but doesn't take you into the stock room and fuck you then it's because they are Japanese, and not because you're an idiot and can't separate good customer service from sexual attraction. I can't think of many countries where bad customer service is actively encouraged to avoid sexually inept men from getting the wrong idea.

2) Women Won't Reply To Messages

So the woman, to be polite swaps Line contact details. She doesn't respond because she's not interested, you equate this to the fact she's Japanese. As you have stated before, it's equals, if you only swap Line contacts with people you are sexually interested in, or are sexually interested in everyone then of course you are going to want to continue it in Line, but I think it is easier to show disinterest by not returning a Line message than just refusing to give your contact details in the first place.

I honestly think that you and your friends should leave Japan, but I think if you moved somewhere new (say for example Sweden) all that would happen is we'd start seeing posts along the lines of "the racist things that Japanese and Swedish women do"

On your point 2, I saw a dating party on Saturday night and I was chatting to my gf about if any couples looked to be in the making. Her response, "I'm sure they all swapped Line and said they'd meet up again, but only to be polite". This party was 100% Japanese, go figure.

 

[Solong]

I honestly think that you and your friends should leave Japan, but I think if you moved somewhere new (say for example Sweden) all that would happen is we'd start seeing posts along the lines of "the racist things that Japanese and Swedish women do"

As usual, you are trying to instigate, more than actually debate. If different opinions concerning Japan bother you so much, I suggest you leave this website. And I have lived in/visited and dated women from many other countries, notice I don't usually mention them here.

As for the points presented here, they have repeatedly come up on this website too. My friends and I have already worked out various solutions or ways of addressing them. However, many have not. So instead of engaging in childish insults and cyber-bulling, you can demonstrate if you have any usefulness, by showing your knowledge on the subject of dating.

 

[NormalGuy]

3) She Won't Meet Or Wants To Meet More Than 2 Weeks Later

I agree, if someone doesn't want to meet (be it male or female, Japanese or non Japanese) then they may not be interested. Should we really be pointing out such obvious human interactions to people?

4) this is the dating and relationships forum, and there is more to dating and relationships (well to normal people) than how quickly you can get the next notch on your bedpost. I guess when dating is a numbers game, and you keep score and note every interaction with women in your diaries then it may not feel like it, but I don't judge a relationship by how quickly we have sex, I judge it by whether it makes me happy or not. I must be old fashioned in that respect.

5) You think it's rude not to respond later. I think it's polite, as do most Japanese. See your previous point on messaging.
I do agree that bettering yourself, for yourself is one of the upsides of PUA, but so often you are not doing it to make yourself a better all round person, but with that singular goal of bedding more women. Be a better person for yourself, and women will come naturally, be a better person to bed more women and they'll see straight through it.

6) I'm sorry, marking people out of 10 seems completely abnormal to me. I suppose it makes it easier to catalog your interactions but none of my friends are given marks out of 10 and it's completely your own personal opinion and says more about how you "mark" yourself than how you mark others.

7) I guess this only happens when you see relationships as short term encounters.

 

[NormalGuy]

And yet again, we should all agree with you, because pointing out that all your "Japanese women" rants are based on interactions with another human being is cyber-bullying.

There are no "different opinions" in your posts, every one is a thinly disguised racist rant.

If you only want your opinion, start your own private website, otherwise every time you take your head out of your ass to post shit, don't be surprised if people on a public forum comment on it.

 

[Wwanderer]

My friends and I have often noticed that Polish, Italian, Canadian and Chilean women who want to have wild monkey sex with you will wait 3 to 4.5 weeks before first responding to messaging. It is vitally important to take the cultural/nationality factors into account when dealing with women. Among me and my pals, it is known as the PICC texting delay syndrome, or PICC-TDS.

(The above is sarcasm.)

I have to agree with @Kegger and @NormalGuy that the large majority of the OP is both blindingly obvious to anyone with the social understandings and insights of your average high school sophomore and generally applies well to non-Japanese too. I declare myself baffled.

But perhaps more than all of that, I am left trying to imagine my shock and delight if I ever logged onto TAG and discovered a brand new thread by the OP with an equally long, detailed and enumerated list of the great and wonderful things about dating Japanese women and about their fantastic qualities as lovers and human beings. Some degree of balance would be restored to The Force by such a post imo, improbably though it may be.

-Ww

 

[Chocoballs]

6) Is She Above, Equal, Or Below Your Level?

This is something that applies not just to guys, but to women too. When a man or woman tries to pull and date people too far above what their physical attractiveness and/or social level is, they can run into greater difficulty. I'm not saying to not reach for the stars or you can't catch "big fish", but a smart person is realistic, and not drowning in Cinderella fantasies or a victim of an overly inflated ego or pride. If you are a 6 or 7, demanding or chasing 9s and 10s, don't be surprised at the problems your dealing with.

Don't be like the angry fat ugly chick (or male reverse with women) trying to only date above her level with Brad Pitt or Denzel Washington types, they have drunk sex with her and leave, then she claims all men are arrogant/egotistical dirt bags. Really? As a dude, are you pulling the male equivalent?

Didn't you post before that your uglier buddies pick up lots of girls too and that being unattractive can even be an advantage? My idea is that looks don't matter in the end IF a guy can be charming, but for girls it doesn't work that way.

I have to agree with @Kegger and @NormalGuy that the large majority of the OP is both blindingly obvious to anyone with the social understandings and insights of your average high school sophomore and generally applies well to non-Japanese too. I declare myself baffled.

I guess I belong to the group without social understandings When I first came to Japan I really had trouble understanding why women would ASK ME for my number and then don't seem to want to meet. And lots of the foreigners that I have met, complained about the same thing. And I do notice a difference between Japan and other Asian countries.

 

[Sinapse]

1) Is The Japanese Woman Interested In You, Acting Fake, Or Just Polite?

I think this is a very real issue with Japanese women, one that is not readily apparent from sophomore year in high school or whatever. Whereas American women or Europeans seem pretty comfortable talking about their feelings and their sexual preferences pretty much immediately, Japanese women do have another layer of reservedness covering it.

I think you hit the nail on the head, and it's the same thing I tell guys who are worrying about IOIs. IOIs in Japan are totally irrelevant. The only thing you need to do is move the interaction forward, and judge her based on what she will or won't do (for example - will she go to your house? Only one way to find out), not what she might or might not say or what you imagine she's thinking.

2) Japanese Woman Won't Reply To Messages

Attention-whoring and other types might not respond, because they are not interested in you specifically, but simply getting a narcissistic high off of you messaging them. It's can possibly be a demented game for her, and even one in which her silly or childish girlfriends are joining in on. As in how many guys they can trick and fool, or how many messages you will keep sending.

A) After sending 3 messages or no response after 3 days, if she doesn't reply, then delete her contact.

B) Test her by asking a question

If you ask her a question by email or message, and no response, then more strongly consider she's not interested and delete her contact even sooner, within 48 hours or less. It doesn't take an interested and enthusiastic women so long to respond, unless some highly unusual (1 out 1,000) circumstance, like losing her mobile phone or in the hospital.

Don't think she must respond to messages instantly either, particularly on work days. But you usually should see a response within 12 hours or less.

You seem to cut women off pretty quickly. I dunno what kind of women you are going for, but I tend to go after VERY social women who are doing a LOT in their life. As such, sometimes they can meet pretty quickly, but sometimes we just don't for whatever reason (I'm also pretty lazy about texting them and inviting them out much of the time because I'm busy as well). If the girl is just pretty normal or didn't make a particularly strong impression, I might not end up following up with her.However, if it's a girl I really really liked, I might text her for over a year before meeting her for what would be our first date. Often times these end up being the MOST rewarding of all. Some women do actually want to see that you have commitment to meeting them and are actually interested in them.

I'll never forget one ex of mine who said of the guy she dated after me that she didn't really even like him that much but he "put in the time and effort" of messaging her a bunch, going out with her to eat, etc. Eventually she slept with him. There is merit in being persistent, though I won't follow a girl around or message her daily or even every week if she's not being very responsive.

The way you message though has to be porportional to your own emotional investment. If you are crushed by every lack of reply and sinking a lot of time into it, then it's best to do as you say and just delete their contact and have peace of mind. One friend of mine is very fast with the swipe->hide function of LINE when girls don't respond. Another of my friends will send messages over the course of days or weeks sometimes without reply from the girl, and eventually a day comes when she's bored or just broke up with an ex she comes out to a date and he bangs her.

So when asking yourself should you continue texting a girl there are a few factors to think about

1. How much do you like her? If shes just an average girl, don't bother. If she's your ideal type, why not keep messaging.
2. That said, if you are investing too much time to the point where it's taxing, stop.
3. Is she reading / responding. If she's not even reading, don't bother. If she responds sometimes, why not send her a casual message every once in a while.

Finally, the LINE forward option makes it really easy to text girls in bulk every once in a while with a picture of what you ate along with a message about what you've been doing. You can easily send it to ten girls at a time while very little effort. Some will reply, some won't. But when you get a girl you really liked out after 6 months or a year (recently just scheduled a date with a girl from 1.5 years ago!) and it goes well, everything is rewarded. I have supreme confidence in my abilities once the girl is in front of me, the texting bit and getting her to come to a date is the only tricky bit at times (again, largely due to my own slacking in texting them haha).

6) Is She Above, Equal, Or Below Your Level?

This is something that applies not just to guys, but to women too. When a man or woman tries to pull and date people too far above what their physical attractiveness and/or social level is, they can run into greater difficulty. I'm not saying to not reach for the stars or you can't catch "big fish", but a smart person is realistic, and not drowning in Cinderella fantasies or a victim of an overly inflated ego or pride. If you are a 6 or 7, demanding or chasing 9s and 10s, don't be surprised at the problems your dealing with.

Don't be like the angry fat ugly chick (or male reverse with women) trying to only date above her level with Brad Pitt or Denzel Washington types, they have drunk sex with her and leave, then she claims all men are arrogant/egotistical dirt bags. Really? As a dude, are you pulling the male equivalent?

I also don't think this is as relevant as you might imagine. Good looking guys know they have no excuse, but more often than not I see them with average women. It's the slightly ugly, short, etc guys who have a chip on their shoulder and work hard at being charming, funny, and with good social skills that pull the really hot chicks IMO. I have a TON of examples of guys in my friend circle who are 6 or 7s who pull 9s and 10s regularly.

 

[Desktop]

There's a lot of different men & women on this site. I also was surprised to hear there are men who only had P4P experience.
Instead of coming after Solong this post may answer a few questions for some young guy who is struggling. For the guy who may have been here for a while & experienced with women it might not be a post for you.
Japan newbie intro posts are for newbies..

 

[Solong]

There's a lot of different men & women on this site. I also was surprised to hear there are men who only had P4P experience.
Instead of coming after Solong this post may answer a few questions for some young guy who is struggling. For the guy who may have been here for a while & experienced with women it might not be a post for you.
Japan newbie intro posts are for newbies..

That's the point. No need for insults and bullying because everybody doesn't buy women. Information exchange, and to share knowledge and experiences on how Japan really is, from different perspectives.

 

[Wwanderer]

I guess I belong to the group without social understandings When I first came to Japan I really had trouble understanding why women would ASK ME for my number and then don't seem to want to meet. And lots of the foreigners that I have met, complained about the same thing. And I do notice a difference between Japan and other Asian countries.

Note that I did say "the large majority" of the OP, meaning not all of it.

-Ww

 

[NormalGuy]

For the guy who may have been here for a while & experienced with women it might not be a post for you.

Agree, but if a newbie asks "why does x happen all the time" and the response is always "that's because they are Japanese" then the advice is worthless. All of these "me and my mates" posts make Japanese women out to be a completely different species to women throughout the rest of the world, and given half the advice provided people may as well jump on a plane because in other countries women are so much nicer people.

I don't see any of the games played above, so to add value and to keep on topic and give advice to people new to Japan.

Treat Japanese women the same way you'd treat women from any other country. Don't be a dick, forever chasing after skirt and you'll most probably not need any of the advice above.

 

[Wwanderer]

You seem to cut women off pretty quickly. I dunno what kind of women you are going for, but I tend to go after VERY social women who are doing a LOT in their life. As such, sometimes they can meet pretty quickly, but sometimes we just don't for whatever reason (I'm also pretty lazy about texting them and inviting them out much of the time because I'm busy as well). If the girl is just pretty normal or didn't make a particularly strong impression, I might not end up following up with her.However, if it's a girl I really really liked, I might text her for over a year before meeting her for what would be our first date. Often times these end up being the MOST rewarding of all. Some women do actually want to see that you have commitment to meeting them and are actually interested in them.

I'll never forget one ex of mine who said of the guy she dated after me that she didn't really even like him that much but he "put in the time and effort" of messaging her a bunch, going out with her to eat, etc. Eventually she slept with him. There is merit in being persistent, though I won't follow a girl around or message her daily or even every week if she's not being very responsive.

I particularly agree with the above, and it matches much of my own experience. Some of the most profound meetings and experiences with women in my life have been with women with whom I interacted for weeks and months or more before things really got moving. What's the rush? No woman I'd consider worth meeting isn't worth a little patience and persistence.

-Ww

 

[NormalGuy]

everybody doesn't buy women.

Yawn, you should really add this to your signature to save you pulling it out every time someone disagrees with you.

 

[Wwanderer]

I don't see any of the games played above, so to add value and to keep on topic and give advice to people new to Japan.

Treat Japanese women the same way you'd treat women from any other country. Don't be a dick, forever chasing after skirt and you'll most probably not need any of the advice above.

Emphasis added.

Doing that has worked incredibly well for me...so add my decades of experience in Japan into the mix and the on-topic contributions.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

everybody doesn't buy women

First of all, neither I nor anyone I know (I hope) has ever "bought a woman"...nor owned one in any sense. People are not property, even if some think they are.

Second, both I and almost all men I know who have been customers in p4p also have np4p experience. In my case I am pretty sure it is quite a lot more than the average man my age. If it makes you take my comments in np4p threads more seriously, please assume that I am referring to my personal np4p experiences and disregarding my p4p ones.

Third, what @NormalGuy said! - Yawn.

-Ww

 

[Solong]

I think this is a very real issue with Japanese women, one that is not readily apparent from sophomore year in high school or whatever. Whereas American women or Europeans seem pretty comfortable talking about their feelings and their sexual preferences pretty much immediately, Japanese women do have another layer of reservedness covering it.

I think you hit the nail on the head, and it's the same thing I tell guys who are worrying about IOIs. IOIs in Japan are totally irrelevant. The only thing you need to do is move the interaction forward, and judge her based on what she will or won't do (for example - will she go to your house? Only one way to find out), not what she might or might not say or what you imagine she's thinking.

We agree. Move the interaction forward, and judge her on what she will or won't do.

You seem to cut women off pretty quickly. I dunno what kind of women you are going for, but I tend to go after VERY social women who are doing a LOT in their life.

A lot of guys get fixated on 1 specific woman, turning her into the ultimate challenge he must conquer or his ego and pride won't admit defeat.

Especially when the woman is not reciprocating the same enthusiasm and claims she's "BUSY". However, many women aren't as busy as they claim, and are playing with multiple other guys.

My advice is for guys to move on quickly when they see it's not happening and aren't getting the same level of enthusiasm, and/or least keep their options open by pursuing other women.

I also don't think this is as relevant as you might imagine. Good looking guys know they have no excuse, but more often than not I see them with average women. It's the slightly ugly, short, etc guys who have a chip on their shoulder and work hard at being charming, funny, and with good social skills that pull the really hot chicks IMO. I have a TON of examples of guys in my friend circle who are 6 or 7s who pull 9s and 10s regularly.

I consider myself an average guy in many ways, and I'm in no way saying a man or woman shouldn't go after what they want. What I meant in the original post, is like delusional people who are like a 6, talking about they only bang or deal with 10s, so can't be bothered with others or anything "below" their supposed level. Then out the other side of their mouths, complain about all their relationship problems they are having, how hard it's to find somebody, or how they got dumped by X hot guy or woman.

And if you want to pull high numbers, then be bringing something else to the party to compensate. Something of value, and that the OTHER person thinks is of value too. Conversational skills, fashion, cooking, money, sexual skills, etc... not just an overinflated ego or pride, or unrealistic expectations.

 

[Solong]

Agree, but if a newbie asks "why does x happen all the time" and the response is always "that's because they are Japanese" then the advice is worthless. All of these "me and my mates" posts make Japanese women out to be a completely different species to women throughout the rest of the world, and given half the advice provided people may as well jump on a plane because in other countries women are so much nicer people.

I don't see any of the games played above, so to add value and to keep on topic and give advice to people new to Japan.

Treat Japanese women the same way you'd treat women from any other country. Don't be a dick, forever chasing after skirt and you'll most probably not need any of the advice above.

Japanese language, culture, and behavior isn't the same as any other place. Thinking you will do in Japan, as exactly as you did in America, France, or Brazil is often a big mistake. There are cultural differences.

 

[Solong]

First of all, neither I nor anyone I know (I hope) has ever "bought a woman"...nor owned one in any sense. People are not property, even if some think they are.

Second, both I and almost all men I know who have been customers in p4p also have np4p experience. In my case I am pretty sure it is quite a lot more than the average man my age. If it makes you take my comments in np4p threads more seriously, please assume that I am referring to my personal np4p experiences and disregarding my p4p ones.

Third, what @NormalGuy said! - Yawn.

-Ww

That wasn't exactly my point. I'm referring to the perpetual animosity and urge to attack or insult those who are not also hardcore p4p mongers. It's obvious to see on many threads. And unnecessary, as I have said many times to do both or whichever you feel like. P4P has it's advantages, and so does NP4P; so a man would be wise to have both tools at his disposal. Now in terms of your dating opinions, minus insults, those are always quite welcome.

My friends and I have often noticed that Polish, Italian, Canadian and Chilean women who want to have wild monkey sex with you will wait 3 to 4.5 weeks before first responding to messaging. It is vitally important to take the cultural/nationality factors into account when dealing with women. Among me and my pals, it is known as the PICC texting delay syndrome, or PICC-TDS.

(The above is sarcasm.)

-Ww

You claim this as sarcasm, but it's clearly instigating and can been seen as insulting. It's like passive-aggressive behavior. I'm going to step on your foot, then pretend I didn't mean to or don't know what you are talking about.

You are a smart man of experience, so if interested in joining a discussion, would like to see your opinions on regular dating. It adds to the perspectives, and can be helpful to others.

 

[Wwanderer]

Thinking you will do in Japan, as exactly as you did in America, France, or Brazil is often a big mistake. There are cultural differences.

Absolutely true, and I often give that exact advice to friends and colleagues in a variety of contexts...but NOT about personal relationships. In those you want to be yourself, not pretend to be someone else to make the relationship work, imo. So, you should act and be whomever you actually are, including culturally.

Of course if your goal is simply to get as many women into bed with you as possible, rather than to have deeper and more elaborate personal relationships with them, it may be better to adjust yourself and how you relate to women into the local cultural context.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Absolutely true, and I often give that exact advice to friends and colleagues in a variety of contexts...but NOT about personal relationships. In those you want to be yourself, not pretend to be someone else to make the relationship work, imo. So, you should act and be whomever you actually are, including culturally.

Here's a way to see it. If you are meeting or in a relationship with a Japanese woman, do you want her to be herself or to intentionally change the way she treats you as a man and a lover (or a potential one) because she knows you are a gaijin? To me the answer is obvious; I want the real her, but I can imagine others feeling differently.

-Ww

 

[gaijinsan]

It's the slightly ugly, short, etc guys who have a chip on their shoulder and work hard at being charming, funny, and with good social skills that pull the really hot chicks IMO. I have a TON of examples of guys in my friend circle who are 6 or 7s who pull 9s and 10s regularly.

I frequently see these anecdotes about guys playing way out of their league ("my buddy has no legs and severe eye ptosis, but he banged Beyonce because his game is SO TIGHT"), and claims that pick-up success is mostly independent of objective attractiveness.

A guy who is a 6 or 7 is not "slightly ugly"; it implies that he is comfortably above the average Joe, but not a dude who has women swooning all over the street. I'd place myself in this category (despite my discomfort with a 1-10 rating scale), and I've had success with women who were definitely more attractive than me for a couple of reasons. Just like men, individual women have different preferences (they even think for themselves sometimes! ). Some attractive women might think I'm average, but some think I'm very attractive. Along those same lines, very attractive women might be really turned on by one of your specific features (eye color, facial hair, height, ethnicity, etc.), even though overall, you're no stunner.

Point is, women aren't as different as some think--objective attractiveness matters to them, whether they're Japanese or not.

And @Sinapse, I don't want to sound like I'm attacking you. I generally enjoy your balanced, insightful perspectives on PUA, this was just a point I'd been waiting to make and you gave me an opening.

 

[gaijinsan]

That wasn't exactly my point. I'm referring to the perpetual animosity and urge to attack or insult those who are not also hardcore p4p mongers..

Thing is, you bristle at almost all disagreements, and your default response is to assume they are "hardcore p4p mongers". Unless you know the full details of someone's sex life, it's unfair to lump all opposition into that category.

 

[Vulkan]

There's a lot of different men & women on this site. I also was surprised to hear there are men who only had P4P experience.
Instead of coming after Solong this post may answer a few questions for some young guy who is struggling. For the guy who may have been here for a while & experienced with women it might not be a post for you.
Japan newbie intro posts are for newbies..

Finally a wise post. While some of the points described here need to be taken with a grain of salt (like any post here in my opinion) the point Solong make are valid in my experience, especially the first one. I undestand that some of you dislike the strong wording (using words like fake or flaky) but they describe something real and much more pronounced in Japan. This can be very challenging to notice it without someone pointing it for you and can lead to stupid situation like one-itis (hope against hope) etc... Those problems can be adressed with just some insight/experience and that is what is given in the post above

If you think that those point are obvious then good on you and move on to find out new things you can learn. Something obvious to you isnt necessarly obvious to others...i think some of you guys seriously need sonetimes to cut some slack to @Solong s posts

One's experience of Japan is definitely biased by one's background and personality.
I doubt that people here that dont speak any Japanese are having a representative experience of Japan. That doesnt mean that i need to bash them here saying "you should leave japan and come back when you understand the language.

Know your limitations, and pick-up what you think is useful for yourself