Exchanged Contacts. What Next?

[4vibes]

I still don't understand anything anymore. People can make it look so easy but it can be very hard for someone on the other hand. Some say you need confidence while some say just be yourself.

When I meet someone for the first time and exchange contact, I would ask basic questions to find out about that person through messaging. But when I am in company of that person, there is no conversation at all. It takes me awhile to get use to someone and then have a conversation that goes both ways.

Confidence comes from practice. Being new your attitude should be lets have fun and see what happens. Set some goals you want to achieve such: #1 Get her to talk to you: understand her time constraint and make her to want to talk to you. #2 attraction: Make her laugh and tease her. Your looks and dress determine how long you need to focus on this. #3 Get date/#.

Watch your body language for neediness: no leaning in to talk, don't agree with everything she says, etc.

On the date talk about what excites you. Share the feelings you get when you are doing these things. Its not what you do. Its what it makes you feel. Then ask her about things that excites her.

Don't forget the kino. Kino is seduction. No kino no sex.

 

[static]

I still don't understand anything anymore. People can make it look so easy but it can be very hard for someone on the other hand. Some say you need confidence while some say just be yourself.

It's both. It's confidence in yourself and being who you are unapologetically. Confidence is someone calling you out on your lifestyle choice and not giving a shit. Often times confused with ego and arrogance; they may seem similar in appearance but they are very different.

When I meet someone for the first time and exchange contact, I would ask basic questions to find out about that person through messaging. But when I am in company of that person, there is no conversation at all. It takes me awhile to get use to someone and then have a conversation that goes both ways.

I assume you have likes and dislikes in women that extend beyond her physical appearance. You maybe like funny girls, worldly girls, historians, etc. Don't think about things you like about this girl, think about your dream girl. Now when you're on your date, see how many of the traits you like she has.

Don't judge her or anything, just dig deep down and see who she is as a person. Talking about yourself is another great way and watch how she reacts when you say you collect Pokemon cards or something. The whole purpose of a date is to get to know the girl and for her to get to know you to see if you can get along.

I disagree with 4vibe's "No Kino No Sex," mentality. Do what comes normally to you. Do you bro hug your guy friends? Do you high five everyone around you? Or does the thought of physicality cause you anxiety? You should go with what's normal to you in this case.

 

[vondoom]

exactly, just do what you would normally do... there is no big secret behind it... she either likes it, or doesnt... in case she doesnt: next...

 

[4vibes]

I disagree with 4vibe's "No Kino No Sex," mentality. Do what comes normally to you. Do you bro hug your guy friends? Do you high five everyone around you? Or does the thought of physicality cause you anxiety? You should go with what's normal to you in this case.

That is one school of thought. Majority of the guys with girl problem stem from lack of physical contact with the girl. They stop at friendship contact. They need more intimate touching: hand holding & touching of the facial areas.

If a guy thinks the girl is the right one, he needs to let her know he wants to move to the next stage. You do that through touch. Nonverbal speaks louder than words. If you don't do these things, at the of the night when you go for the kiss she will be surprise and the kiss may not take place.

Bros don't hold hands and touch the facial areas. They don't lock eye contacts. These are intimate things boyfriends and girlfriends do. If you can't do these things, the relationship is not going to work.

And people call this manipulation? Letting her know you are interested? Just so funny.

 

[Sinapse]

That is one school of thought. Majority of the guys with girl problem stem from lack of physical contact with the girl. They stop at friendship contact. They need more intimate touching: hand holding & touching of the facial areas.

Do you game in Japan? Are you speaking from experience here or just regurgitating what you've read in material?

Touching a girl a lot in Japan (esp too soon) often messes things up. With western girls, yeah, more touching than most guys do is better, but it ideally is calibrated not just plentiful

 

[4vibes]

Touching a girl a lot in Japan (esp too soon) often messes things up. With western girls, yeah, more touching than most guys do is better, but it ideally is calibrated not just plentiful

Yes, its true over touching in Japan is a problem. The more intimate touches should be done more discreetly.

 

[NormalGuy]

Confidence is someone calling you out on your lifestyle choice and not giving a shit. Often times confused with ego and arrogance; they may seem similar in appearance but they are very different.

I disagree, I think you have confidence and arrogance confused.

Your lifestyle choices may be completely wrong, such as being racist, homophobic, lazy etc. an arrogant person doesn't give a shit and always thinks they are right (so wrong) whereas a confident person sees the others point of view and acts on it where necessary.

Confidence isn't "not giving a shit"

 

[static]

That is one school of thought. Majority of the guys with girl problem stem from lack of physical contact with the girl. They stop at friendship contact. They need more intimate touching: hand holding & touching of the facial areas.

Actually, it's not really a school of thought. If a non-demonstrative person starts trying to get touchy, it comes off as needy, tryhard and uncallibrated. Introverts, formerly traumatized people, or people raised in a culture that discourages physical contact wouldn't get anywhere with physical contact in a public place. Then of course, there's the girl herself and how she feels. Many girls get uncomfortable with physical contact, others are unaffected by it. The most you can really do is give it a shot and see how she reacts, and how you feel to determine whether or not you should continue.

Actions speak louder than words, but sometimes the lack of an action can speak volumes.

 

[Wwanderer]

sometimes the lack of an action can speak volumes.

This.

-Ww

 

[TAG_Member]

@Chuwa you are overthinking it. Treat her like you want to be treated: be entertaining, engaging and spontaneous.

@Chuwa this is the best advice I've read here. You should be yourself or be the person you hope to be. If more confidence and better communication is what you hope to have, aim to have this (if you don't have it keep practicing until it becomes naturally you) but still be yourself.

I disagree with most of the advice and lines you are supposed to use here. From what I can tell, you seem to be looking for a relationship. If you have to change so much of yourself on the initial approach, the relationship will not last longer than 2 dates.

 

[Solong]

Yes, its true over touching in Japan is a problem. The more intimate touches should be done more discreetly.

That is one school of thought. Majority of the guys with girl problem stem from lack of physical contact with the girl. They stop at friendship contact. They need more intimate touching: hand holding & touching of the facial areas.

If a guy thinks the girl is the right one, he needs to let her know he wants to move to the next stage. You do that through touch. Nonverbal speaks louder than words. If you don't do these things, at the of the night when you go for the kiss she will be surprise and the kiss may not take place.

Bros don't hold hands and touch the facial areas. They don't lock eye contacts. These are intimate things boyfriends and girlfriends do. If you can't do these things, the relationship is not going to work.

And people call this manipulation? Letting her know you are interested? Just so funny.

I think your points on touching and KINO are very valid. This is an area where a lot of guys don't know how to pull of smoothly, naturally, or intuitively.

This is why I laugh, when people pretend anybody can instantly become a pro/expert without practice. As if Michael Jordan or Tom Brady just walked on the field/court and were instantly the best. As if any coach potato could walk on the field/court and "naturally" do the same.

And to complicate this, the reaction of women are highly variable. So a guy needs to adjust his approach. Many of times, in my experiences and talking with pals, the "solution" was recognizing when to switch approaches or moving along with different approaches simultaneously. And tracking 3 to 4 different ways to move an escalation forward, is a multi-tasking skill in itself that takes practice/experience.

In my opinion, escalation has four basic areas. Touch, non-verbal (body language), verbal, and geographical (location...also can require planning). They all are important. Seeking mastering of one, without the other, can lead to problems. For example, a woman may allow you to touch her breasts in a hotel or karaoke room, but the same woman can attempt to slap you in a public restaurant or club. The difference is where you are at (geographical escalation), the mood or possibility of intimacy you help create prior (verbal escalation), and reading the woman (body language and facial expressions).

So to rephrase your point a bit, I think the majority of the problems thay guys can have is from lack of knowing what they are doing, inexperience, and insecurity (partially from the previous two).

And many women may not understand what the hell this is all about, because she never needs to nor wants to fully approach or escalate. She puts the responsibility entirely on men, and simply presents herself in a more passive or plausible deniability type manner.

PUA is simply a framework or guide to help guys formulate how they will approach women and move the interaction to becoming intimate and establishing a relationship. Like there are different methods and techniques to win a fight. Many of them can help you win or increase your chance of winning, but it's up to the guy too. A combination of the techniques that he practices, experience, and innate abilities.

(The PUA famous, DiCarlo Escalation Ladder)

 

[split]

The picture above is interesting. My whole life I've been going straight to the hug after the first meeting as the initial physical contact, and seems to generate a lot of good responses (too much so in the case of the ones too young and possibly vulnerable). One girl had even asked about this and if it was customary and expressed she liked it. One girl I meant to only hug, I had accidentally slid my hand to her ass, we were sexing 1 month later.

 

[DJV]

As a Frenchman, I get tons of excuses to skip most of the steps.
Like you don't know the person but can kiss her right away. Then give a hug because it's so natural

 

[4vibes]

I think your points on touching and KINO are very valid. This is an area where a lot of guys don't know how to pull of smoothly, naturally, or intuitively.

This is why I laugh, when people pretend anybody can instantly become a pro/expert without practice. As if Michael Jordan or Tom Brady just walked on the field/court and were instantly the best. As if any coach potato could walk on the field/court and "naturally" do the same.

And to complicate this, the reaction of women are highly variable. So a guy needs to adjust his approach. Many of times, in my experiences and talking with pals, the "solution" was recognizing when to switch approaches or moving along with different approaches simultaneously. And tracking 3 to 4 different ways to move an escalation forward, is a multi-tasking skill in itself that takes practice/experience.

In my opinion, escalation has four basic areas. Touch, non-verbal (body language), verbal, and geographical (location...also can require planning). They all are important. Seeking mastering of one, without the other, can lead to problems. For example, a woman may allow you to touch her breasts in a hotel or karaoke room, but the same woman can attempt to slap you in a public restaurant or club. The difference is where you are at (geographical escalation), the mood or possibility of intimacy you help create prior (verbal escalation), and reading the woman (body language and facial expressions).

So to rephrase your point a bit, I think the majority of the problems thay guys can have is from lack of knowing what they are doing, inexperience, and insecurity (partially from the previous two).

And many women may not understand what the hell this is all about, because she never needs to nor wants to fully approach or escalate. She puts the responsibility entirely on men, and simply presents herself in a more passive or plausible deniability type manner.

PUA is simply a framework or guide to help guys formulate how they will approach women and move the interaction to becoming intimate and establishing a relationship. Like there are different methods and techniques to win a fight. Many of them can help you win or increase your chance of winning, but it's up to the guy too. A combination of the techniques that he practices, experience, and innate abilities.

(The PUA famous, DiCarlo Escalation Ladder)

If nothing else do these 3 things: find a way to hold her hand for at least 1 min., get her to hold eye contact with you a few times, and find a way to touch her face, hair or neck a few times.

The facial area touches are needed for the kiss later. Since this is Japan, be discreet with the touches.

If she won't let you touch her she is not interested. Move on. She is just using you.

 

[Chuwa]

Nothing works. I just don't know how to carry a conversation at all.

 

[vondoom]

what is so difficult at holding a conversation?
conversation honestly was never a problem to me, it usually was meeting someone...
just talk about something that you know about, or better, something that she is interested in...

 

[Chuwa]

Nothing works because I don't talk period. Everyone says confidence is a must. But where does that confidence come from when one is naturally quiet and doesn't talk at all.

 

[vondoom]

well, youre just like me... i usually dont talk much (or at all), unless the environment suits me (which means 2 people, or i know everyone well)... i just dont like it and i dont want people to know anything about me, because i wont see them a second time anyway...

but i dont think confidence and being quiet are linked in any way...i didnt have much confidence a few years ago... hard to tell, somehow i had, but i never got any positive responses from nobody, so maybe i just thought i didnt have any... also, many people are confusing boasting with confidence...
im sure there is something youre confident with... im absolutely confident with silence, for example... just use it to your advantage...
or maybe youre just not used to social situations? i had that once for years... long story short, my gf disappeared and i fell in a hole, spent too much time alone and from that it went down... i had to force myself to go out and sometimes i still have to...
but there is always a way, even if it is a long and rocky one...

 

[Chuwa]

Yes, I am confident in things. But that confidence cannot be channeled to social interaction with the opposite sex.

 

[vondoom]

im sure it can... maybe the opposite sex just hasnt been interested, yet...

 

[Chuwa]

No, it doesn't matter. Image, money and confidence is everything. I have not none.

 

[vondoom]

wrong target audience? i dont want to date women who like money and image...
maybe youre going to the wrong places, when youre going out?

 

[User#8628]

No, it doesn't matter. Image, money and confidence is everything. I have not none.

Maybe you should first work on getting some of that then.
We live in a society where young people are expected to be very educated and succesful, and if you wanna date someone who has a everything going for them, they expect you to also bring something to the table.

 

[vondoom]

or at least try... people here give you lots of credit for it...

 

[Chuwa]

That's the catch 22. PUA say you don't need money or image to get women.