How do you meet a provider outside her shop?

[jelle]

I would appreciate reading anyone's stories regarding meeting a provider outside of her shop (either by continuing to pay her or for free).

Alternatively, a relevant 'nanpa' question: IRL if you have sex with somebody after only knowing her a couple of hours, how do you increase the odds of her wanting to keep meeting you? The fact that you two had sex so quickly would likely make her suspect that you only want her for sex and don't value her uniquely. This makes it less likely that she'll want to continue meeting than if sex occurred 4-10 hours after meeting.

Any specific details would be much appreciated. Especially with the most attractive and talented providers, they must receive so many sexual and sugar dating offers, that I wonder how they choose which options to pursue. Other than money, in your experience, what makes the best providers, AV stars, hostesses, kyabajo, etc want to pursue a sexual or romantic relationship (when their job can saturate this aspect of their life)? If only money, how much?

A disclaimer: I realize that asking for a provider's contact information can make the provider extremely uncomfortable and can get you banned from a store, potentially. Nasty Dolls even writes on their website that there is a steep financial penalty. I wouldn't recommend asking.

I'll share my somewhat limited experience first. I really liked a DH provider and repeated maybe 4-5 times. I felt like we had better chemistry than I had with anyone else I had been with before, so after each session, I joked that we should meet after she's finished with work for the day. Each time, she laughed and had a ready response. She was also strict about no FS. Finally, I told her how I felt and that I wanted to see her outside the shop, and if that was impossible, then I would only rarely see her anymore, if at all. She agreed to exchange contact info and we dated like a regular couple for several years.

I've asked 3 other DH providers after multiple meetings and FS with each. Of the three, the one I had the best chemistry with said she doesn't exchange contact info, and I apologized for asking. In fact, I only asked because she worked so rarely and had quit once before, and I was tired of girls who I had a good connection with quitting. The two others agreed. We exchanged many messages but I never asked either to meet. My interest with these two wasn't as sincere as I thought, I guess.

 

[TAG Manager]

Nasty Dolls even writes on their website that there is a steep financial penalty.

Which is complete hyperbole... they can't even begin to take such an action. The worst that they can do is ban you from using their services.

There isn't really a 'best' answer since every girl is different. Some just want a clear cut between work and home life. You as a client, are the work. That's how they see it most of the time. Once the time is up, it's done in most cases. Yes, there are arrangements being made for chatting over LINE and email but that's (usually) just an extension of her work so that you stay hooked.

If indeed there is actual chemistry, asking her on a date, if you think that you're that comfortable, isn't the end of the world. Usually, if you're in tune with someone at a deep enough level, you kind of know when the tide turns and there is more there than just the time and money.

Two of my closest friends who are working girls, tell me often about the entertaining offers that they receive. Both are Japanese, so they are polite and aren't really able to directly rebuff a client who makes a suggestion to advance the relationship. In reality, both girls are well rooted in their personal relationships... at least one of them has a long term boyfriend who knows what she does.

I don't recommend constantly going to see a girl on a paid basis if you are really into her. That's dangerous....

 

[macdaddymeister]

@TAG Manager explained it right. In my experience it depends on the girl you get, how much she's into you and how well you can work your game. Out of the several I've only managed to swap personal contact info with 2 providers one who just totally disappeared and the other I am currently hanging out with after the first time I visited her shop she actually insisted if we could exchange contact info and go out sometime.

 

[patty diaz]

Im not a sex worker but have worked as kyaba and girls bars etc. I currently work at a store that bans contact exchange(which for me is really relaxing) I get customers that ask but personally I would NEVER exchange info as I see this as just what it is, work. And Im not going to mix my private life with work...Youll find this with a vast majority of girls. Its how they make their money to survive and I can tell you a lot of them are already in relationships outside. With a lot of the younger girls too they do sex work for helpng their host or money toward their bandman (in the visual kei scene) so you can be gaurenteed those types are just in it for the cash and not interested in relationships with customers

 

[Goshogawara]

With a lot of the younger girls too they do sex work for helpng their host or money toward their bandman (in the visual kei scene) so you can be gaurenteed those types are just in it for the cash and not interested in relationships with customers

This. "My host has his birthday next month and I need to save up more money so I can pay for a champagne tower and make him number one"

Of the three ladies I'm in contact with, the offer to exchange addresses was made on their part because I'm coming from so far away so they could contact me in case they'd change shops. While we meet on the outside for a drink, it's only after a regular session with paying involved. It's their work after all and I'd feel bad trying to get something out for free.

 

[patty diaz]

This. "My host has his birthday next month and I need to save up more money so I can pay for a champagne tower and make him number one"

Of the three ladies I'm in contact with, the offer to exchange addresses was made on their part because I'm coming from so far away so they could contact me in case they'd change shops. While we meet on the outside for a drink, it's only after a regular session with paying involved. It's their work after all and I'd feel bad trying to get something out for free.

Yep that used to be me saving my money for my host.

 

[chaztagster]

Yep that used to be me saving my money for my host.

This is something that I would like to understand more. Id like to read about your experience if you ever have the inclination to describe it.

 

[patty diaz]

This is something that I would like to understand more. Id like to read about your experience if you ever have the inclination to describe it.

Ive never really thought about writing it as it could reveal personal stuff about me. But it didnt end well and even though we havent spoken for over two years I still love him and hes a good person. I ended things horribly and I dont think he would forgive me.

 

[Lars Lust]

Yep that used to be me saving my money for my host.

If this is too personal just ignore. You have openly labeled yourself lesbian here on TAG, why would you spend all that money on a (male) host? Sorry, I was just born very curious... always will be

 

[patty diaz]

If this is too personal just ignore. You have openly labeled yourself lesbian here on TAG, why would you spend all that money on a (male) host? Sorry, I was just born very curious... always will be

This was before I discovered that myself. Also sexuality,gender and love etc. Is a very complicated thing...which is another conversation all together.

 

[Wwanderer]

This was before I discovered that myself. Also sexuality,gender and love etc. Is a very complicated thing...which is another conversation all together.

"Very complicated" is a vast understatement!

https://xkcd.com/592/

-Ww

 

[injp]

If you are interested in understanding host clubs I recommend this http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0493420/

 

[skipskipper]

I have far less experience than you (give yourself more credit), but I do genuinely feel that it won't always just be a question of money. Also, I second the disclaimer that this is inadvisable and will only lead to trouble (trust me!). NOTE: A lot of my response makes the assumption that you are not just looking to transition this into a sugar-daddy/baby situation and actually want something more.

To answer your question bluntly, sure, there are some girls who would engage you outside if they think it's worth a certain sum of money either now or over time--but those are probably not the type of girls you'd want to have an emotional connection with (and probably couldn't, given their motives). Whatever signals they are giving off that make you feel that they're genuinely interested need to be dialed down a few notches and filtered since they literally are in the business of making you think that they only care about you. If, after dialing them down you still feel it's genuine, then I would say to still proceed with some caution if it's still for pay.

Also, you should think about the long-term and set expectations accordingly. Are you looking for a fun companion or a potential partner? Align that with the context of what your "first meeting" was, and then proceed. Obviously there are many exceptions (yourself included), but given the news and videos I see about how Japanese girls don't want to be in relationships (could be overblown by the media?) girls and also that they're in this trade, you may genuinely be better off with just traditional dating. By that I mean whatever low odds exist in the dating world for meeting these "ideal" women may still be better than through P4P. Again, I am not that well experienced in either and this is all extrapolation.

Lastly, as I said, you've had a pretty decent experience of meeting outside and that in and of itself is an achievement that many of us will never reach. If you really want to escalate and get more "hits", my only suggestion would be to rely on the same 'pick-up' skills as you would outside of the shop (since there's probably always someone with more money coming to the shop) as the girl will find herself more attracted to you by default. Attraction is biology and hard to deny--even for the girl (will vary given her level of professionalism). While she may wonder why you are paying if you're game is so on point, it's still enough to make you stand out among the wide range of other paying customers. Just remember to dial down the signals you receive ("OMG you're different than the other guys, I can't wait to see you again!") and make sure that you can filter out when it's genuine versus just doing her job. After all, it's what they're paid to do.

Just a guess and good luck!

EDIT: Quick note and an [unwarranted] personal story since you asked about the most attractive and talented providers. I had two experiences in which I was "hooked" and tried to make outside contact. The first one (over a year ago) seemed like the perfect woman in ALL aspects. Literally any guy would give up everything for what this girl brought to the table and it was even extremely difficult to book her since word got out about how good she was at everything (technique, GFE, massage, conversation, you name it!). While she never responded to me and has since left the shop, after some time, I started to realize that all of it was an illusion. Regardless of how enthusiastic and interested she behaved, in reality the cards were stacked in her favor. She had the option to meet guys outside of the shop who are as "perfect" as her, can win her over with charm alone, and hence I would be the one competing for her. It's was painful, but over time I really did realize it. And soon after, I realized that it's okay if someone like that passes me by, but still haven't gotten over comparing every provider after that to her... it's a bit of a curse, lol.

Again, a lot of this is extrapolation on my part and please take it with a grain of salt. Hopefully I could at least remind you of a few things you may have taken for granted.

 

[okayspot]

toward their bandman (in the visual kei scene)

Yeah, What's with the bandman thing?
Host I get...
I've just been amazed by the amount of amateur girls I've found when I ask them why they need the money they tell me because they chase band around the country, and it's always visual-kei...

 

[okayspot]

, after some time, I started to realize that all of it was an illusion. Regardless of how enthusiastic and interested she behaved, in reality the cards were stacked in her favor. She had the option to meet guys outside of the shop who are as "perfect" as her and I would be \

Very good post!
All of the girls I've managed to move out of clubs makes me realize that while I might be a young semi-attractive non-scary male that spends a lot of money(aka top of the game customer-wise), I can't even begin to compete with the guys she meets for free...
It's better to keep the dream alive and live in a fantasy land because that's what really p4p is for isn't it?

 

[User#8628]

I've been thinking about this a bit and here's what i think.

I know of several cases of escorts who's started dating their customers so its not like it doesn't happen.
In case a girl really likes her customer, you could expect her to take the first step, but not all girls are that assertive.

I've had feelings for clients myself more than once, but it never became a relationship.
Generally if i really like a client's character i'd rather be friends with him than date him (sorry for the friendzoning, hahaha).

As for what a client can bring to the table that guys she meets for free cant.. i dont think its a battle you cant win. Financial situation is definitely something that clients can do better than real dates in some cases. I dont mean this as a "keep paying her" thing at all. If i look for a serious suitor i definitely look at financial situation because i want to make a family at some point so i want to generate a stable income. Also a lot of girls do like it when a guy treats her dinner and gives her nice presents. In relationships (for example host) often the sex worker girl ends up providing the income and paying for everything, so it can be really refreshing if a guy can provide something in that case.
As for looks, i'd say almost always guys i can meet outside of work are better. Its true, even if i meet a guy who's "handsome for a client" he would still look good to me but wouldn't really wow me outside of work.
For character, it doesn't matter how you meet a guy. Every guy brings something unique to the table there and from some guys i like the character so much that i want to keep in touch a lot (if they are ok) without direct benefit for me.

I have to say if i worked for an agency i would be a bad worker, because i'd be more than happy to meet regulars outside of the agency for more money that my cut and less money than the full price, if i'd think the guy could keep it discreet. (This is what i think now, many i'd change my mind if i worked for a very nice agency.)
I know some Japanese girls are really scared of the agency but i think it wont hurt to ask politely if you are just looking for seeing a really good provider many times for a more favorable rate for both of you.

At last, i dont think many girls join this business to meet a potential boyfriend, but that doesn't mean it cant happen.

 

[Takeoff1653]

I have to say if i worked for an agency i would be a bad worker, because i'd be more than happy to meet regulars outside of the agency for more money that my cut and less money than the full price, if i'd think the guy could keep it discreet.

From my experience, a lot of the providers are willing to meet outside the agency but they don't know if the client will keep this a secret. And even if some can keep it a secret, if they get too attached emotionally to the provider; they will use this as blackmail if the provider doesn't obey to the clients demands. All in all, the risk is very high for the provider while as for the client, he will only get banned from the shop.

 

[patty diaz]

Yeah, What's with the bandman thing?
Host I get...
I've just been amazed by the amount of amateur girls I've found when I ask them why they need the money they tell me because they chase band around the country, and it's always visual-kei...

I used to be in the scene but never to the extent of chasing bands around. Those girls are obsessive groupies some use all their money to shower their favourite member with gifts (some go as far as paying the guys rent haha) others pay the guy money to go on dates or be their 'boyfriend'.

 

[User#8628]

From my experience, a lot of the providers are willing to meet outside the agency but they don't know if the client will keep this a secret. And even if some can keep it a secret, if they get too attached emotionally to the provider; they will use this as blackmail if the provider doesn't obey to the clients demands. All in all, the risk is very high for the provider while as for the client, he will only get banned from the shop.

Yes, if i really liked the work place i wouldn't do it, but its not too hard for a girl to change shop i think.
Would be a real dick move of the guy to tell the shop, and ruining it for other guys to get the girl's contact information. Like other people have mentioned, contact information can not only make for better deals or knowing when a girl is free, but also for keeping in touch if she would change shop or quit working but still want to see some old customers she got along with.

 

[skipskipper]

Not sure how many here have seen the documentary The Great Happiness Space (2006), but it's about a famous host club in Osaka and the key message at the end (SPOILER) is that the majority of girls who come to meet the main host are in fact fuzoku.

I wonder how that plays into the context of what is being discussed here. After all, they have access to plenty of men who would want to treat them as goddesses outside of the workplace, but they still choose to go find their emotional connections through a paid service as well.

I N C E P T I O N

 

[User#8628]

Not sure how many here have seen the documentary The Great Happiness Space (2006), but it's about a famous host club in Osaka and the key message at the end (SPOILER) is that the majority of girls who come to meet the main host are in fact fuzoku.

I wonder how that plays into the context of what is being discussed here. After all, they have access to plenty of men who would want to treat them as goddesses outside of the workplace, but they still choose to go find their emotional connections through a paid service as well.

I N C E P T I O N

Why not? Why should men pay and girls not.

We all pay for the same thing; to get exactly what we want (or something very close to it).

Besides, i think many girls who go hosts dont even start out as fuzoku, they become it because host is so costy. The whole reason why most host club customers are fuzoku is because they are some of the few women who can pay for it.

After all, having a hot guy treat you like a princess may not be something most of those girls get for free, somehow. Also there is something about chasing someone who makes you work hard for it, isn't there.

I'm one of the only gaijin chicks who hasn't seen this movie and i dont have a huge interest in seeing it (the guy on the cover isn't even handsome, lol) but i roughly know how host clubs work. Not totally my thing though, i hate that whole "becomming number 1" ambition, its so shallow. Plus i dont like noisy places, not quite a "happiness space" to me.

 

[skipskipper]

Why not? Why should men pay and girls not.

We all pay for the same thing; to get exactly what we want (or something very close to it).

Besides, i think many girls who go hosts dont even start out as fuzoku, they become it because host is so costy. The whole reason why most host club customers are fuzoku is because they are some of the few women who can pay for it.

After all, having a hot guy treat you like a princess may not be something most of those girls get for free, somehow. Also there is something about chasing someone who makes you work hard for it, isn't there.

I'm one of the only gaijin chicks who hasn't seen this movie and i dont have a huge interest in seeing it (the guy on the cover isn't even handsome, lol) but i roughly know how host clubs work. Not totally my thing though, i hate that whole "becomming number 1" ambition, its so shallow. Plus i dont like noisy places, not quite a "happiness space" to me.

Definitely agree that girls should be allowed to enjoy paying for experiences as well, including sex workers.

Maybe I'm off-base, but I was suggesting that sex workers can easily find someone (e.g. customers who want to take it to the next level) to make them feel special and be complimented for free and with a lot more honesty than from a paid service. Of course it might not be the same level of charm or wit as a "professional", but it's definitely there for them given how many men they meet and the subset who becomes attached (though it's not something that everyone should take advantage of since it will inevitably interfere with their day-job).

Thinking about it a bit more, you're right that it's also a lot to do with what you can't have and basic human nature. The "dreamy" guy at the host club saying to a girl that she has pretty eyes carries a lot more impact and sense of achievement than if it comes from a paying customer.

Lastly, regarding resorting to becoming a sex worker to keep paying for more time with the hosts does make sense for girls who become attached, though I don't have enough experience to comment further.

tl;dr: Based on this documentary (limited datapoint), a SW would rather spend money on meeting guys at host clubs than for free with their own clients outside of the shop.

 

[User#8628]

tl;dr: Based on this documentary (limited datapoint), a SW would rather spend money on meeting guys at host clubs than for free with their own clients outside of the shop.

Thats a good point. I guess most customers dont treat them as special but then still, she should be more than happy to dive into the arms of the customers who do.

I guess its just something with keeping work and private seperate?
And because they have to chase the hosts, which makes it more interesting than guys who chase them? They think the general setting of meeting is more romantic?

I cant say i dont find hosts charming, but the whole "i have a dream to become number 1 so please spend money on me" thing kills it for me. Not per se the money but if your biggest ambition in life is to be the most popular guy in some seedy nightclub which isn't quite the best one in town, you need to get your priorities straight imo.

 

[skipskipper]

Thats a good point. I guess most customers dont treat them as special but then still, she should be more than happy to dive into the arms of the customers who do.

I guess its just something with keeping work and private seperate?
And because they have to chase the hosts, which makes it more interesting than guys who chase them? They think the general setting of meeting is more romantic?

I cant say i dont find hosts charming, but the whole "i have a dream to become number 1 so please spend money on me" thing kills it for me. Not per se the money but if your biggest ambition in life is to be the most popular guy in some seedy nightclub which isn't quite the best one in town, you need to get your priorities straight imo.

I agree that a lot of it has to do with the chase itself and winning the affection of someone "out of your league".

As for the "number 1" thing, I totally agree that it dilutes the excitement of the whole situation. Although it made me realize that the real irony on top of all of this (and I'm definitely not judging) is that SWs know the rules and consequences of getting close to a paying customer outside of work. That is, they would know that the hosts are putting up an act and yet still crave it enough to continue paying for it. Though I'm sure that many are able to make the distinction and still be okay with the terms.

Additionally, the fact that clients are revenue sources also implies that one should keep that gap regardless of what is possible. It's like the side of the brain that fights for survival (revenue from a customer) is wrestling with the emotional side (emotional fulfillment from a customer).

It's a complex world we live in...

 

[patty diaz]

Reading this is is making me that maybe I should share my story about my host club going days. Cause mine was definitely not a case of he was out of my league haha. He was notoriously known as unattractive