If You Are Married,
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Quietlife
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First voter here. I enjoy variety and I enjoy people. So punting, fwbs, happening bars, cruising men's restrooms, online dating, cafes... The world is a giant sweetshop of people to connect with in all forms.
Wwanderer
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This.
I was going to post a comment, but since it would not have been in the same league as @Quietlife 's, it seems sort of pointless.
-Ww
Kegger
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vondoom
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honest question here, since i always wondered... there are so may people not satisfied with their partners, usually the reason is sex... why dont you get divorced, then, if there seem to be significant problems? i do understand that relationships are usually not perfect and so on, but if there would things i couldnt agree on, then there would be no point in staying together... so why is that? comfort? fear of being alone? visa?
Kegger
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Thought someone would tackle this...
In my case sex is the only issue we have in the marriage. My wife is a great mum, good business partner, and I enjoy being with her. I would not be where I am today without my wife.
We about 2 years ago we talked about it a bit and tried a bit harder, but neither of us was really into it.
We've been married over 20 years and I can't see getting divorced as an option until at least the youngest of our kids are at University. and even then I can only see us getting divorced if we decide to pursue new interests (business opportunities, travel etc) that the other is really against.
Wwanderer
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@Kegger 's post expresses the way I basically the way I feel about it too. Imo, anyone who has not been in a long term (say, decade+ or 5+ years at a dead minimum) fully domestic relationship that involved partnering in major life activities and collaborating on major undertakings, as well as finding ways to function in each other's most personal space don't know and probably cannot even imagine how complex and multi-dimentional a primary relationship can be. The typical case is some vast assemblage of positive and negative experiences, periods of time, areas of life, types of interactions and so forth. These are relationships which simply don't fit into the simple and neat template narratives with which we try to understand them.
The closest I can come in analogy is the relationships between adult children and their parents. It is possible to end those connections too, but it rarely happens despite the fact that there are usually major areas of strong disagreement or dissatisfaction. Basically a spouse becomes like another member of your family eventually...a fact of life with good and bad aspects in some mixture.
Does that help answer the question?
-Ww
The closest I can come in analogy is the relationships between adult children and their parents. It is possible to end those connections too, but it rarely happens despite the fact that there are usually major areas of strong disagreement or dissatisfaction. Basically a spouse becomes like another member of your family eventually...a fact of life with good and bad aspects in some mixture.
Does that help answer the question?
-Ww
vondoom
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i guess it helps to hear opinions, as you can tell, i am extremely opposed to that, though that does not mean i am judging anybody... i am no moral person at all, but to me, that is something that i couldnt and would never do... i have been in two sexless relationships and it didnt cross my mind to look for other opportunities... they didnt want to, so there was none, quite simple to me...
one thing i got to disagree on is that i dont need a decade to understand a relationship, if i needed one, then i did something wrong, or didnt pay enough attention... i think it is about how you view a relationship, i wouldnt start any if i wasnt sure id spend the rest of my life with my partner... of course, youll never know what is going to happen, but i also wouldnt continue a relationship if there were things i couldnt deal with...
the only cases i know where the wife (is it always the wife?) agreed on her husband having sex with whomever the reasons have been:
1)if you want someone younger, go for it, but dont leave me.
2)i know you want to have sex, but i dont, so get it, but dont leave me
and somehow i think that is maybe what many think, but dont say out loud...
but i am of course willing to learn and to understand, thats why i was asking...
one thing i got to disagree on is that i dont need a decade to understand a relationship, if i needed one, then i did something wrong, or didnt pay enough attention... i think it is about how you view a relationship, i wouldnt start any if i wasnt sure id spend the rest of my life with my partner... of course, youll never know what is going to happen, but i also wouldnt continue a relationship if there were things i couldnt deal with...
the only cases i know where the wife (is it always the wife?) agreed on her husband having sex with whomever the reasons have been:
1)if you want someone younger, go for it, but dont leave me.
2)i know you want to have sex, but i dont, so get it, but dont leave me
and somehow i think that is maybe what many think, but dont say out loud...
but i am of course willing to learn and to understand, thats why i was asking...
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DJV
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You have some answer to your question : basically you prefer things to be black and white, while some others don't feel this way.
And even if they do, life is not black and white, so...
In my case, I couldn't survive without some freedom. I tried : it destroys me and has negative effects on my loved ones.
So to me it's better to adapt your life, feel better, with more satisfaction for me and everyone around.
R.O.B
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I'd like a 'Not having any sex with the wife and wouldn't even if she offered it, which she won't'.
Wwanderer
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A misunderstanding - I did not mean that it takes a decade or more to UNDERSTAND a relationship; rather I meant that over times like that, 5-10 years or longer, relationships and the people in them CHANGE, often in dramatic ways. The relationship can develop whole new aspects/dimensions that weren't even there at the beginning, and one or both people can change in very deep/fundamental ways. Just to give one very simple example; a couple's sex life can be just great for 10 or 20 or 30 years and then completely change or just die. But it can easily be much more subtle and interwoven than that. Again, imo it will be hard for anyone who has not actually experienced such a long term relationship to even imagine what it is like.
Emphasis added.
Imo you really can't be *sure*, though you may feel that you are, for the reasons stated above. You will change and so will your partner, possibly into virtually different people. In fact one of the ways in which a long term relationship differs from a short term one is that the couple will likely have found ways of dealing with such changes, which are sometimes gradual and other times sudden. The way in which this is accomplished adds something to the relationship that simply wasn't, and couldn't be, there at the beginning.
As for your last sentence, it is basically a tautology, true by definition. *No one* does *anything* they *can't* do, of course. So, if you can't deal with it, you definitely won't. However, it can turn out that you can deal with things that you might not thought possible at the beginning.
-Ww
Wwanderer
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Agreed. Sometimes the changes make things better and other times not so much of course...
Just to add one more point about long term relationships, not in response to your post I quote, "shared memories" become a major part of a connection to a person with whom you have spent time and communicated daily or close to it for the majority of your life. This again is an sort of connection that cannot be there at the beginning and only gets deeper/richer/stronger over long periods of time. You just have way more in common in terms of links to and thoughts of the past than to anyone else in the world.
-Ww
As Ww said people change. Or as my doctor once advised me, after having children both the good and bad aspects of your relationship intensify.
As for why not to divorce, in my case I can think of:
1) kids
2) hope that my wife and I continue to change and recalibrate.
As for why not to divorce, in my case I can think of:
1) kids
2) hope that my wife and I continue to change and recalibrate.
Kegger
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What he said.
+ One simple question. Is my life better or worse with my wife in it?
Whatever the answer you choice should be simple.
Wwanderer
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One may also ask what effect it would have on the lives of other people. For example, I would not do something that improved moderately at the cost of making the life of someone I care about drastically worse. This can also be expressed in terms of one's own life; for example I would feel very bad (making my life worse) if I knew that some choice I made caused my children, for example, serious emotional damage and unhappiness.
One should not read the above as very "noble" or anything; it is quite normal human behavior to consider other people's interests as well as one's own in making choices.
-Ww
vondoom
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i never take kids as any form of excuse, because:
a) children sense that there is something wrong between their parents
b) we are living in an age where divorced parents are not uncommon, not unaccepted and not something kids can not deal with... i get it when it comes to babies, though, but even they sense it when their parents dont get along...
the question kegger asked is exactly what i am thinking... the convenience would be missing, once people break up and probably nothing else... so people would not be better off...
i also dont see things in black and white, as djv said, but what is freedom to you? not being able to bang any girl you would like to bang? to me the only thing that ever kept me from freedom have been bills to pay...
if you think a relationship keeps you from being free, then dont get any, or learn to take compromises...
a) children sense that there is something wrong between their parents
b) we are living in an age where divorced parents are not uncommon, not unaccepted and not something kids can not deal with... i get it when it comes to babies, though, but even they sense it when their parents dont get along...
the question kegger asked is exactly what i am thinking... the convenience would be missing, once people break up and probably nothing else... so people would not be better off...
i also dont see things in black and white, as djv said, but what is freedom to you? not being able to bang any girl you would like to bang? to me the only thing that ever kept me from freedom have been bills to pay...
if you think a relationship keeps you from being free, then dont get any, or learn to take compromises...
Vondoom, not really sure what your point is. I think my 4-year-old would prefer that i spend more time with him.
Should I ask him if I should get a divorce?
Should I ask him if I should get a divorce?
Kegger
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I actually meant a wider perspective than just the one on one relationship.
Without the wife is not just losing her, but you could also be losing friends, children, income, companionship, advice etc.
@vondoom is your premise here that if you are not having enjoyable sex with your wife then divorce is they right thing to do?
Here's another one - another thing that drives me nuts is bad communication between my wife and I. When you divorce with small children there's an awful lot of communication ahead of you. But I expect divorce to make things worse, not better.
Obviously divorce is a legitimate option, but I don't think you can come up with a simple formula for when to choose it.
Obviously divorce is a legitimate option, but I don't think you can come up with a simple formula for when to choose it.