Japanese Girls And Who They Call Out...

[Torky]

So... When I write messages they tend to be a tad bit long winded but bear with me.

A couple weeks ago, my colleague and I go to one of them international parties. My friend's main purpose there was to pick up girls and he had met this cute petite girl from China there looking to pick up good looking guys. Curiosity got the better of me and I wanted to see this girl from China as I had never seen cute girls having to find men (it's usually the other way round right?).

So there we were, we met the girl... a bit dramatic but sweet... likes non-asian foreigners so that's me and my pal off the table. Overall, nice girl but overly romantic and that didn't jive well with me.

So I'm winging for my collegue when we then hit it off with these two very good looking japanese girls in their late 20s and I buy em drinks - great night blablabla -- successful contact exchange. Later that night, the japanese girls meets the girl from China. Now, they don't know who the fuck she is but they exchange contacts anyway coz my friend tells them how their acquaintances.

The same week I ask one of them out to meet for dinner with my pal (same guy in the party). We arranged a meet (dinner tonight) to get to know one another. I ask her to bring a friend with her if she feels being alone may feel uncomfortable. Normal date stuff, I'm no expert in PUA so I like to take it slow and set things in motion rather than rush in. She says she'll bring a friend and I just found out today (date night) that it's....

The girl from china.

Q: Do Japanese girls just call out girls they don't know for dinner? wtffffffff? Is this considered *normal* in terms of japanese culture? Is this normal ANYWHERE?

My friend is reeling in shock coz he's not particularly fond of his 'acquiantance' (long story short: the girl whines about boys to him 24/7)

Hopefully it'll turn out okay tonight...

 

[Desktop]

She might have hit it off with the girl from China. She might also be thinking this is not a date yet but since you know the girl from China everyone will be comfortable.
If things don't work out she didn't risk you knowing any of her real friends.

 

[Torky]

Good points, my question is more like is this common amongst girls in Japan?

 

[MossBoss]

Sounds like you are going to have blue balls.

 

[Torky]

That's what デリヘルis for if things don't progress.

 

[HoboMan]

It is very Japanese.
As desktop pointed out the girl is exercising care&caution.
Obviously you and your pal are no Brad Pitt *wink* *wink*

As you said

two very good looking japanese girls in their late 20s

Now concentrate on the chance that you might get lucky with one very good looking girl.
Keep you tension up, work you charm and wish you good luck!

 

[Wwanderer]

Do Japanese girls just call out girls they don't know for dinner? wtffffffff? Is this considered *normal* in terms of japanese culture? Is this normal ANYWHERE?

I have no clue if this is "*normal*", but having spent my entire adult life paying close attention to women and their social interactions and half of it trying to understand Japanese social interactions, I am resigned to being perpetually surprised. I try to think of it as a a feature, not a bug...keeps life interesting among other things.

-Ww

 

[Torky]

Obviously you and your pal are no Brad Pitt *wink* *wink*

we clearly aren't but I'd welcome any opportunity to talk to beautiful women

 

[Sudsy]

I am resigned to being perpetually surprised

As the great Al Bundy once said, "Don't try to understand women. Women understand women, and they hate each other."

Why ruin a good thing?

 

[Solong]

@Torky

I'm confused by your story in context as to why you needed to turn it into a group date. The impression is given that you were afraid of rejection or feel insecure.

That she will bring the Chinese female friend, often means she wants to keep this meeting outside of her inner or usual group Japanese circles.

When my pals and I go out hunting together, we often can tell if it's worth trying to go for sex that night with the women we meet, by how close they are. If the ladies have only known each other for a short time or are like "club friends", it can mean they go looking for guys and sex together. We then make stronger moves. If however they are co-workers or like long time friends from back in high school, then red light and not tonight (or cock block festival). We go for contacts, then try hooking up some other day.

Bringing the Chinese friend can be good, IF the other woman is sexual or confident in her sexuality. It's horrible, if she is a prude. Your best hope is usually to try and divide the women, after 1 hour or 2 hours into the date, or bring them to your/friend's apartment for group sex. As you don't seem aware of PUA, I'm guessing the group sex option is above you for now. Therefore, trying to split them might work better for you.

How we usually do the split, is we plan on separate 2nd locations. We mention it as a possibility, no details, in e-mails or LINE. We meet up together at X place, then after 1 or 2 hours, try going different places. If the women get all lesbian-like and refuse to split, we kill the date early (about 30 min to 1 hour later). But do it in a nice way, and make plans with the ladies individually for a 2nd date.

I would also like to remind guys that your 1st date can be your LAST date with many women. Wasting the opportunity for you to establish 1 to 1 rapport with the woman can be an unwise decision.

 

[Torky]

great advice, thanks. In hindsight, it was probably better to keep it as a 1 to 1
Yea, I'm not particularly adept in PUA (i got no game at all lol). My main train of thought that time was keep the 1st date simple - no pressure, remove potential risk of discomfort due to isolation

Still a good night, coulda definitely been better

 

[Solong]

great advice, thanks. In hindsight, it was probably better to keep it as a 1 to 1
Yea, I'm not particularly adept in PUA (i got no game at all lol). My main train of thought that time was keep the 1st date simple - no pressure, remove potential risk of discomfort due to isolation

Still a good night, coulda definitely been better

Well, you will know how truly well the 1st date went by asking her out on a 2nd date. Usually best to ask on a Tuesday, if you want to meet her Friday or Saturday. At least 3 days in advance, is a good rule of thumb. Don't over do the e-mail exchanges, because that can make guys look desperate or females will complain the exchanges are tiresome (even if she started them). You might want to keep it brief, and save the conversation for the 2nd date. If anything, sell the 2nd date, by maybe stating your friends have found or recommended some new place for you to try next week (non-specific about the day).

When you do ask her out on the 2nd date, you want to give some option days. Like Thursday, Friday, or Sunday. Japanese women often don't know the Western female habit of a counter offer. "I can't meet you Friday, but how about Saturday?" Instead, many Japanese female will just say they can't meet Friday, and go weirdly quiet. So it's a good habit to offer a couple of different days in the initial message.

If she is enthusiastic for meeting next week, that's a good sign. If not next week, but the week after next, then that's a kind of lukewarm sign. If she tells some crazy crap, like meeting next month, not good. If she starts pulling out a box of bad Japanese excuses, not good at all, and then that's what's really up. It will be her actions, that speak louder than words.

 

[Wwanderer]

If not next week, but the week after next, then that's a kind of lukewarm sign.

Or indicates the expected arrival date of her next monthly period!

Perhaps needless to say, I don't follow the "system" or pattern/technique @Solong describes, but I do think it would work pretty well in general.

Fwiiw, if I want a second date, I usually take a really subtle and indirect approach of some sort. For example, I say something like, "I really enjoyed tonight (or last night or whenever the first date was) and would love to see you again. Would you like to of out with me again?" If she gives a positive response, then I move on to STEP #2 and say something like, "OK, great! Let's compare our schedules and figure out when would next work for both of us." It is incredible how often women are persuaded to see me again by this psychologically and culturally sophisticated approach.

To be more serious and to be clear that the above is meant in fun (I really do believe that @Solong has a lot of success with women...but so do I), my real point is that there is no reason that you cannot communicate with women in an extremely straight forward, direct, clear and honest way. Sometimes it takes them by surprise if they are accustomed to all the usual games guys play, but generally they like and appreciate a simpler and more relaxed style, at least in my experience.

-Ww

 

[Solong]

@Ww

I don't see anything wrong with your advice, but you appear to have contradicted yourself.

"Fwiiw, if I want a second date, I usually take a really subtle and indirect approach of some sort."
"...communicate with women in an extremely straight forward, direct, clear and honest way."

Being subtle and indirect, implies technique and strategy on your part. It comes off a bit hypocritical to talk about another's "system or technique", then advocate for your own "system and technique". You are doing the same thing, just in a different way or using a different method. Which, I think there is nothing wrong with that. I've mentioned before that different approaches can work. 2 champion Boxers can have completely different styles, yet they are still champions. And keep in mind, that PUA doesn't have only 1 approach.

Another issue with what you are saying, is that the women a man can be interacting with can be: very coy, indirect, unclear, or double-minded in response. Women are not obligated to be honest or direct with you, and many aren't. When a guy thinks things will go down in a Cinderella or fantasy book way, that's when he can have the most problems. "The way or fantasy " of how things are "suppose" to go is different from how things "really are".

Putting women on the spot, then having them lie to you.

"I really enjoyed tonight (or last night or whenever the first date was) and would love to see you again. Would you like to (go) out with me again?"

Nothing wrong with this in general, but I would rather not use the last part. "Would you like to go out with me again?" I know it sounds like nitpicking (hell, why not, it's the Internet), but it can come off a bit desperate or subservient. It's like asking a woman, "Would you like to kiss me?" It doesn't come off well, and some women perceive it as weak. Because you asked in that way, now some don't want to kiss you.

1) Such a question now puts her in obvious control. Some women don't like being in that role or start to look arrogantly down on the guy.

2) The woman can feel pressure to lie to you, and in the case of some Japanese women, they may stop responding to you. They can think you are "falling in love" too quickly. Your use of "love" can be misinterpreted. "...would love to see you again." There is also the possible perception of desperation.

3) You will find out if she will go out with you, when she responds with what day she will meet you.

You can ask in another message, "Let's meet up this Friday or Saturday, or can you suggest another possible day for us?" This type of question reduces pressure on women and doesn't put them on the spot. A "yes or no" type answer is not required. Where a question like- "Would you like to (go) out with me again?" is often/can be interpreted as needing a "yes or no" about us, right now.

Preferably, think it's better to go with (after 1st date, and next day)-

"Our night out together was very enjoyable (or last night or whenever the first date was) and look forward to us meeting again."

Why? This statement puts ZERO pressure on the Japanese woman. She doesn't have to decide about you at that moment. There is nothing "sneaky or PUA magic" about it. I use variations of this, and it works very well. By the way Ww, that you follow up with a message after the 1st date, is very good on you. Such a "technique or habit" is good because it works, not because it's part of any diabolical magic. It something that often comes out of experience. It lets women know you enjoyed her company, and would like to see her again.

Let's not forget, that words you say or type, do count. Which words and how you say or type something, can make a difference. Thus we have to choose which ones we use wisely. Now, if some people want to call that "PUA magic", so be it. But which words people choose can come just as much from experience and results too.

Having technique, skill, or methods aren't bad. I don't how or why fumbling around cluelessly or claiming to be a "natural" as if you knew everything since birth and never learn anything, makes any sense. Words that you use, methods that you use, all do count. We can wander around clueless about what we do, or we can think about and try to use the most effective ways possible. Is any method perfect? Nope, and it all depends... But, the bottom line is that the method you use, gives you the results that you want. And nothing wrong with experimenting with different methods.

 

[Wwanderer]

@Ww

I don't see anything wrong with your advice, but you appear to have contradicted yourself.

"Fwiiw, if I want a second date, I usually take a really subtle and indirect approach of some sort."
"...communicate with women in an extremely straight forward, direct, clear and honest way."

Being subtle and indirect, implies technique and strategy on your part. It comes off a bit hypocritical to talk about another's "system or technique", then advocate for your own "system and technique".

Oops! Sorry for creating confusion. Calling what I said I would do "subtle and indirect" was meant completely sarcastically, as was calling the second bit "STEP #2" and describing it as a "psychologically and culturally sophisticated approach". To be totally honest, I was trying to gently make fun of the whole idea that one need put any thought or technique into scheduling a second date. That is why I put a rolling eyes emoticon at the end of that paragraph and why I started the next paragraph by saying that I intended the previous one in fun and did not mean to insult you or make fun of you...though I was a little bit.

My point, put explicitly instead of sarcastically, is that you don't need any special skills or techniques or elaborate strategizing to ask a woman out for a second (or 1st or 73rd) date. You can just talk to her in a straightforward way, just f-ing ask her like you would ask anyone else any normal question. It is not as though you are trying to negotiate with the North Koreans or argue a case in court or interview someone for a job. It is a simple question; why elaborate it into something needlessly complicated and uncertain?

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Women are not obligated to be honest or direct with you, and many aren't.

Very true of course, but fwiiw, my experience is that women (and men) are much more likely to be honest and direct with you if you are honest and direct with them. Not a guarantee they will be of course, but it improves the odds...A LOT.

-Ww

 

[Solong]

Oops! Sorry for creating confusion. Calling what I said I would do "subtle and indirect" was meant completely sarcastically, as was calling the second bit "STEP #2" and describing it as a "psychologically and culturally sophisticated approach". To be totally honest, I was trying to gently make fun of the whole idea that one need put any thought or technique into scheduling a second date. That is why I put a rolling eyes emoticon at the end of that paragraph and why I started the next paragraph by saying that I intended the previous one in fun and did not mean to insult you or make fun of you...though I was a little bit.

My point, put explicitly instead of sarcastically, is that you don't need any special skills or techniques or elaborate strategizing to ask a woman out for a second (or 1st or 73rd) date. You can just talk to her in a straightforward way, just f-ing ask her like you would ask anyone else any normal question. It is not as though you are trying to negotiate with the North Koreans or argue a case in court or interview someone for a job. It is a simple question; why elaborate it into something needlessly complicated and uncertain?

-Ww

If it was the case that men needed no strategy or brain power when it comes to trying to figure out or dating women, then there would never be PUA, prostitution, or untold millions of confused guys with no dates on Fridays.

Why don't we just run up to random women on the street and ask them on a date? After all, it's "so easy".

Pretty quickly, if a man was that naive and tried such, he would realize that strategy and technique starts to come into play. How he looks, how he dressed, and what he says are all factors. He would realize that women aren't all "easy". How he approaches them, what he says/types, and different methods give different results. Basically, most of us would re-realize why the world and dating scene is the way that it is now. Reality strikes again.

 

[Wwanderer]

@Solong - We have been around and around on topics very much like this one so many times that it is probably pointless to do so again here. However, let me try casting my basic point/perspective in one more way that might make it more sensible sounding to you and/or others:

There are many activities, especially natural ones, in which "trying too hard" and concentrating too much on exactly what one is doing are actually detrimental. In many cases, it works far better to simply relax and "let it happen", go with one's instincts, "Luke, trust your feelings". You can find this all over the place in the literature and teachings of zen Buddhism and related "wisdom traditions". Zen and the Art of Archery is a famous, short book length, example that is well known among English-speaking zennies, for example.

These insights are also common in sports contexts. Ray Knight, 1986 World Series MVP 3rd baseman for the NY Mets, once said, "The secret to being a successful (or maybe he said "great") hitter is that you just hit the ball without trying to hit the ball." Another, related, example is that any good Little League coach (I was one once) knows that you can basically prevent a kid from ever learning to hit the baseball if you "over instruct" them on all the fine points of their stance, grip on the bat, body and foot motions as they swing, how to time the pitch, trying to place the hit where the fielders aren't etc. They end up frozen at the plate as they try to think about all that complicated stuff at once as the ball sails past them. It is far better to just tell them, "Look at the ball and hit it." Similarly with pitching; there are a million fine points and important techniques that can distract the new pitcher, so you just tell them to throw the ball to the catcher's glove. In the LL case, once the the young player has started hitting or pitching successfully and gained enough self-confidence to avoid obsessing over whether or not they are holding the bat at the proper angle to receive the pitch or putting their foot down in the proper place after releasing a pitch, it is then time to start teaching them the fine points and subtle techniques. Sorry to go off on this baseball tangent at such length, but let me add that pro baseball players in a hitting slump often have similar problems caused by getting "too much help" from the batting coach who will try to tweak up tiny little details of their stance, swing, head movement and so forth. It is almost a cliché in baseball that it is better to ignore the batting coach, "forget" that you are in a slump and then just look at the ball and hit it without thinking about technique at all.

Anyway, by now, you perhaps see my point: In my opinion and experience, a man's interactions with women - courting, seducing, attracting them - are VERY NATURAL BEHAVIORS...far more so than playing baseball surely! Thus, it is often/generally better to simply *relax* and just do it in whatever way feels natural/instinctive than to be consciously think about all the PUA technique details you so often describe in TAG posts. As Yoda said, "Do. Or do not. There is no try."

All that said and to be clear, I do not think that all the techniques and considerations you post about are without value or always counter-productive. Like the fine points of hitting or pitching, they can be valuable and even important...especially if you are trying to rack up scoring statistics or whatever. But I do think that they are not necessary to having success with women (whatever that means!) and that concentrating on them too much probably does more harm than good.

That's my best shot at explaining what I mean...just my 2 cents worth.

-Ww

 

[meiji]

We're getting off topic here....

 

[Wwanderer]

We're getting off topic here....

Yeah, we should have a whole separate thread for "Zen and the Art of Pick-up" someday.

-Ww

 

[Manny]

You guys should write a book on how to get off topic on a habitual basis

 

[meiji]

You guys should write a book on how to get off topic on a habitual basis

The book would stay on topic for about 4 pages and then wander off into something completely different.

 

[Wwanderer]

The book would stay on topic for about 4 pages and then wander off into something completely different.

LOL...literally!

-Ww