Ladies first mentality

[Frenchy]

All over the cultivated parts of Europe.

Buckingham palace (where the lady is above all the monarch), Paris haute-couture houses (where the ladies are above all clients) etc...

 

[krdxgm69]

All over the cultivated parts of Europe.

Examples please?

 

[Yuriko]

It's seems like Japan lacks a ladies first mentality. Women are not respected or they do not demand respect.

Ex. I was on the train. A family boards the train. It's a mother, father, and two sons. When they first got on the train there were no seats available but after a few stops seats became available. The father and sons find seats but left the mother standing mind you she is holding bags. Not once did the father or sons offer the mother their seat. I could kinda sense she was a little irritated but she just stood there. I offered her my seat but she turned me down.

I guess my question is where do women fit in Japanese society?

Sadly, some traditional Japanese families are like that. But you know what, I have some of my friends that are wives, they control their family bank book. Husbands only get 40K allowance a month, so that they can keep enough money to raise their kids. Wives keep an eye on what hubbies spend. So, they aren't just the ones that obbey husband. My friend got married in early 20's, she has one son, prob. abt high school now, she's an executive secretary, probably makes 5 millon a year, she spends 400k a month for her beauty, fashion, son's education, travel oversea with her son, she gives 40K allowance only to her husband. Some ladies can be strong, they don't mind no ladies first.

On the contrary, I'm traditional in a way, I like ladies first, love open the door for me, pick me up at the lobby entrance...etc. and I would never control men's purse.

 

[Babaram]

Examples please?

If you have to ask ....

 

[Yuriko]

To me, Japanese men are more gentlemen than western men.
They open car doors for me (never had any guy do that for me in the west) and whenever i dated someone and we went on the train they would definitely let me sit (also my experience with western men).

Then again, women are not made of sugar, i don't think we have more right to sit than men if we are able.

That's because they pay you and they want to impress you. (^_^)v

 

[Yuriko]

The problem with Japan is that women who want to have careers mostly cannot have them. They get stuck at the manager (kachou) level while even their less skilled male peers go forward. The roles are pretty fixed and that is bad for the males too.

Men don't complain because it doesn't make any difference. And the male role model is not to complain or appear weak. That doesn't mean they wouldn't like to have changes in the society too.

That is slightly developing. My friend got the management level as their first woman executive, at one of the top Japanese trading companies. Some companies post female CEO. As you know, PM Abe/ the Japanese goverment has been trying to develop female management or post CEO to make them career goal work. (But I'm sure, still most Japanese men have negative impact on that. And Japanese ladies want to marry western men, because they treat them equal and spoil them, treat them like a princess forever!)

Majority of companies however, women are still stuck, by kacho level as you say. That's also if she has a family, she probably have to take some days off, due to their kids sudden sickness, injuries, personal issues, etc. I heard that's one of the reasons.

 

[MikeH]

That's also if she has a family, she probably have to take some days off, due to their kids sudden sickness, injuries, personal issues, etc. I heard that's one of the reasons.

Yeah, and the funny thing is that the guy who has kids never has to take any days off for the same reasons... The thing is Japan is wasting the talent of many great ladies because of that kind of attitudes. And then they go and wonder why other countries are catching up and even passing Japan.

 

[Yuriko]

Yeah, and the funny thing is that the guy who has kids never has to take any days off for the same reasons... The thing is Japan is wasting the talent of many great ladies because of that kind of attitudes. And then they go and wonder why other countries are catching up and even passing Japan.

I guess that's also how you seek your career. Your mind set can icebreak the society stubborness. Most Japanese women don't have that agressive career mind. Maybe only top 10% and the rest, they are more easy going with their career, like myself. lol.

 

[Mindful]

I always thought that you should open a door for women and people who need assistance. And after you walk through, you look back and if someone is behind you, you prop it open so they could grab it for themselves. It's not done to impress anyone but out of common courtesy. I believe "common courtesy" is something we desperately need to hold on to, especially these days. So, whether it is at an doorway, on a train, in a restaurant, or in passing; common courtesy, making eye contact while saying thank you, listening, appreciation, giving genuine compliments, and smiling are few of the important things.

I too have some co-workers who are in the similar situation as Yuriko described. The husbands look unhappy as hell, but they feel that is normal and they are doing the right thing by being patient(がまん、がまん). And the wives(who do have it rough raising children) complain about not having enough money and complain about their husbands. Wow, this sounds like a stereotype of the modern Japanese family. Lol.

Going back to ladies first, in an intimate situation with woman...Yes, ladies first. Unless, it's not that type of situation.

 

[Babaram]

Japanese ladies want to marry western men, because they treat them equal and spoil them, treat them like a princess forever!.

As I said before .... don't fight it, make it work for you, flattery gets you everywhere. Leave the negging to the losers who need a manual ....

 

[foobarxyzabc]

That's also if she has a family, she probably have to take some days off, due to their kids sudden sickness, injuries, personal issues, etc. I heard that's one of the reasons.

I personally don't really understand why it should be a problem and why people think its bad (especially colleagues and immediate supervisors).
How country/society is supposed to grow if many people actually think that being a mother is a burden ...

 

[MikeH]

Going back to ladies first, in an intimate situation with woman...Yes, ladies first.

It's all fun and games until you meet a girl who thinks the guy needs to go first before she can. So you end up torturing each other until you are pouring sweat, exhausted, dehydrated, starved and run way over the hotel rest fees and then the medium death takes you both and you fell to the dreamless bottomless sleep.

And when you wake up you agree this needs to be done again next month. Because anything more often would actually kill you for good.

 

[TheScientist]

cultivated parts of Europe.

Farming areas?

 

[Frenchy]

I always thought that you should open a door for women and people who need assistance. And after you walk through, you look back and if someone is behind you, you prop it open so they could grab it for themselves. It's not done to impress anyone but out of common courtesy. I believe "common courtesy" is something we desperately need to hold on to, especially these days. So, whether it is at an doorway, on a train, in a restaurant, or in passing; common courtesy, making eye contact while saying thank you, listening, appreciation, giving genuine compliments, and smiling are few of the important things.

I too have some co-workers who are in the similar situation as Yuriko described. The husbands look unhappy as hell, but they feel that is normal and they are doing the right thing by being patient(がまん、がまん). And the wives(who do have it rough raising children) complain about not having enough money and complain about their husbands. Wow, this sounds like a stereotype of the modern Japanese family. Lol.

Going back to ladies first, in an intimate situation with woman...Yes, ladies first. Unless, it's not that type of situation.

After many years in this wonderful country I developed a strong "fuck がまん" policy. Most of the がまん is meaningless

 

[Babaram]

Farming areas?

In the farming areas, it's more like the 'oi ocha' equivalent

 

[TheScientist]

I find it's such a "spoiled" world these days, so that mothers do take absent pretty often

Obviously you don't have kids. I don't either but I've helped raise some over the years. They get sick or hurt at inconvenient and unscheduled times, they get in fights at school and basically need adult supervision that can't always be handed off to someone else.

hence it is distructive from office scenes

Thats just some Japanese office politics nonsense where everyone is up in everyone else's business caring about appearances, pretending to be がんばります and all the other nonsense of not being able to mind your own business and get your work done.

as if she was the decision maker

See above, when you have kids, those decisions are outside your control. That plus Japanese office politics.

I wouldn't hire a person, who is like that. Too unstable.

Showa era mentality. This is a big part of what holds Japan back.

It's not fair for fully attended, fully productive guys.

Most of those guys are wasting most of their time anyway. Japanese office productivity is very low by international standards even though they spend so much time at work. Being at work is not the same as doing work.

 

[TheScientist]

I line with @Yuriko request I won't quote her. I'm really not against @Yuriko in fact she really doesn't enter my thoughts outside these threads.

Speaking of kids and working hours I was talking with my neighbors who have two young daughters (lovely girls, I've known them since birth, I'm sort of the adopted uncle). Both parents have full time jobs. Turns out kids are expensive.

 

[TAG Manager]

I don't wanna think it's like "personal attack", but very annoying. But, I got my own opinion, and you got your own. We never seem to agree. lol. Please refrain from quoting my comments, please.

Please don't go around dictating who can and cannot quote your posts. If you don't want people to quote you, then don't post here. Thanks.

 

[krdxgm69]

If you have to ask ....

Yes, I ask. Please give me a working example of "ladies first" in those countries.

 

[Yuriko]

Please don't go around dictating who can and cannot quote your posts. If you don't want people to quote you, then don't post here. Thanks.

It's sad, when someone has no respect on local born, nation's opinion. just being against another is their trophy of posting comments on the forum. It hurts. But, I'm not naiive. OKay, I will refrain from posting comments, then. I'll go smart. Thanks.

 

[e-smile]

I've seen worse than that in the train, an young girl almost pushing a old woman to take the only free seat before her and instantly pretending to sleep so she can't see the reaction

 

[Anna Summer]

It's sad, when someone has no respect on local born, nation's opinion. just being against another is their trophy of posting comments on the forum. It hurts. But, I'm not naiive. OKay, I will refrain from posting comments, then. I'll go smart. Thanks.

Why should that be a trophy? That kinda baffles me! Not sure if I would call that a local born opinion but more ignorance.
You were a child too and do you think it would've been ok if your mother would stay at work when you are sick or hurt? I don't think so.... one can argue about part time but children are expensive and not only in japan but everywhere in the world.

 

[Frenchy]

Why should that be a trophy? That kinda baffles me!
You were a child too and do you think it would've been ok if your mother would stay at work when you are sick or hurt? I don't think so.... one can argue about part time but children are expensive and not only in japan but everywhere in the world.

In Japan even getting them delivered on day 0 is so damn expensive! (Giving birth is not considered an illness , so not reimbursed by health insurance)

 

[Taylorjp]

I offered her my seat but she turned me down.

Sorry for sending the thread on another tangent, but it's funny, (strange funny). Your experience reminds me that over the years of living here, offering a seat on trains often requires 3 warmly offered offers before the person in need of the seat takes it. I sense it's cultural to maintain one's dignity so it ends as " well, if you insist, I'll sit just to make you happy and shut you up". On the other hand, I've been on crowded trains and I'm dead beat tired,only to have an elderly person or obasan with groceries walk the entire length of the train and plant themselves directly in front of me, in the hopes the gaijin will play his part and let them sit. Life is a cabaret, old chum. lol
In response to your question though. The longer I live here, the less I can generalize and would say the dad is a jerk, and leave it at that.

 

[kramal]

On the other hand, I've been on crowded trains and I'm dead beat tired,only to have an elderly person or obasan with groceries walk the entire length of the train and plant themselves directly in front of me, in the hopes the gaijin will play his part and let them sit.

Pretend to sleep like the japanese do.