Looking for a Place to Start

[Sparrowhawk]

Hello. Sorry for my first post being so long, but I'm looking for some advice.

So, some context, I'm a 23-year-old Anglo-American currently living in Tokyo. I don't really have much experience or confidence with sex and relationships due to some bad experiences in high school and spending all my time studying in college. Now that I've gotten more settled and comfortable with my life and myself though, I want to push myself out of my sexual comfort zone and experience new things.

The problem is that I don't know where to begin. I don't have any friends that I can go to clubs or bars with here, and again, not much confidence or experience, which I'm scared will be obvious to any girls I try to pick up and thus destroy my chances. Also, I don't know where exactly in Tokyo would be a good starting point. I've been recommended Omotesando and Roppongi, but no specific clubs or venues to go to, and the former is too obscure for me to find any good information on, while the latter is too infamous for me to know which places are safe.

I guess, the ideal situation, what I'm looking for is a Sex Friend (I think that's the right term). I'm okay with waiting until I'm where I want to be career-wise before settling down and finding a proper girlfriend. But I want to try new things sexually, and I'd like to have a community or friend group that can help me navigate all this. My (admittedly limited) understanding of hookups though is that you meet, you fuck, and then you never see each other again, and I want something a bit deeper than that.

It's just, again, I don't know where to start. So I'm hoping someone here can give me advice on what venues would be best for me, how to meet someone who can help me navigate this unfamiliar territory, and how to stay safe throughout it all. If you have any questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer.

P.S. On the subject of Japanese, I'm at a conversational level. There's still a lot I have to learn, but I can carry a conversation with friends and passerby pretty well.

 

[Wwanderer]

Hello. Sorry for my first post being so long, but I'm looking for some advice.

I'll try to hit just a couple of simple points.

The problem is that I don't know where to begin.

There is a lot of good (and quite bad) advice available in the TAG forum on dating and relationships, as well as the Nampa/PUA one to some extent, not to mention all the endless advice you can find all over the internet in many different forms, including instructional videos and such. The problem, if anything, is too much available advice, much of it contradictory. But if you want guidance, I'd suggest just poking around a bit and paying attention to whatever sounds/feels right to you. However, don't expect it to be a cookbook process; it is most definitely an art and not a science, as they say.

I don't know where exactly in Tokyo would be a good starting point. I've been recommended Omotesando and Roppongi, but no specific clubs or venues to go to, and the former is too obscure for me to find any good information on, while the latter is too infamous for me to know which places are safe.

Personally I enjoy Roppongi and many of the places there, but I agree that it is not really a good place to get started; it is no country for newbies, so to speak. However, in what conceivable sense is Omotesando obscure??!! It is often called the Champs-Élysées of Tokyo, though the reference is admittedly to a place located in a somewhat obscure French city , but it is undeniably world famous. Anyway, Omotesando and Aoyama are among the most fashionable and well known areas of Tokyo, sort of the opposite of obscure.

But never mind neighborhoods anyway. God would't have given you the internet if you were expected to go to actual places to meet and woo women. In case you haven't heard, that sort of thing is done online these days...on apps and websites which exist in profusion and cater to nearly every type and taste. There are probably ones devoted to those who want to "get started".

My (admittedly limited) understanding of hookups though is that you meet, you fuck, and then you never see each other again, and I want something a bit deeper than that.

Relationships can be as deep or shallow and as brief or enduring as you and your partner wish; there are not pre-determined sizes or rules to worry about. Just communicate your goals and constraints honestly and clearly and look for someone who wants the same thing you want. Try not to mislead anyone, and you are much less likely to be misled yourself. Also, don't be surprised if what both you and she want changes over time if it is more than a brief connection.

how to stay safe throughout it all.

Safe from what? But in reality that isn't achievable. Real life isn't safe in general, and little if anything in life is more real than relationships.

On the subject of Japanese, I'm at a conversational level. There's still a lot I have to learn, but I can carry a conversation with friends and passerby pretty well.

Congrats on your Japanese ability; it is a huge advantage in many contexts. However, I would not actually advise that you *start* with dating Japanese women in Japanese, not that there is any reason not to do so in general, but if you are just starting out in the relationship and sexual connection world and don't have much experience or self-confidence, adding all the cultural obstacles and differences to the challenges you will face is just making it all needlessly harder for yourself. I think it would be easier to start with someone from your home culture and communicate in your native language. There will be time enough to date across divides of culture and language later.

-Ww

 

[User#8628]

Not to be rude but what do you actually bring to the table? When people are looking for a “sex friend” they are usually looking for someone who can provide mind blowing sex, not for a sexual newbie. I think most girls have more patience with, and prefer a guy who is serious about their relationship instead of a guy who only wants to see them for sex and then is not even good at sex.
Are you considered attractive? How high are your expectations for your partner’s looks? Consider those things before starting to look.

As for places to look, clubs are indeed often one night hookup places with the girl sneaking out at the morning (the “walk of shame”) and then you’ll never hear from her again in many cases. They do also make for weird and/or lousy sex sometimes because of excessive alcohol consumption. Advantage is that you don’t have to be that good in bed per se because you can blame the alcohol if something goes wrong and she might not even remember it later.
Go for dance clubs or pubs, not bars since most people go to bars with friends and not to hook up afaik.
I think Hub is a good place to find girls who like foreigners, and if Gaspanic Shibuya is anything like Gaspanic Roppongi used to be, its exactly that kind of venue. If you wanna stay out of Roppongi, maybe try Womb for dance clubs, not particularly a pick up venue but lots of people in party mode and who knows what can happen.

There are other venues to meet people, like wwander mentioned, there is the internet. However, expect for a lot of girls to flake and not actually meet up with you, especially if you say you are not looking for something serious. Doesn’t hurt to try if you have time for it though.

Maybe you’d prefer more social settings. Those Japanese parties (i think called Gokon?) where an even amound of girls and boys meet and then they make pairs along the way, sound pretty perfect but i have no idea how they are organized. I think you need the right friends for something like that. If you are serious about wanting to try NEW things, visiting a happening bar would be a good idea. Yes, its expensive for single males and you are not guaranteed any action. But on the other hand, if you go out partying you spend so much on club admission and overpriced drinks that it doesn’t differ that much from happening bar (which usually have nomihodai) and you will most definitely SEE some very naughty play. Its also a good way to see how you lay in the market, if people would actually want you to join them in group sex or rather not and if single girls would choose you or not.

 

[BB0523]

You could also book one of the TAG escorts with the understanding they would be able to tell you exactly how you are in your sexual skillz... I'm sure they would be open and honest if knowing that was your purpose.. and you get to have sex as well LOL... This is not the lowest cost route, but IMO I think it would be the most beneficial to you as a self proclaimed newbie...
Probably better money spent too... I mean don't treat it like a science project.. just ask when done (which may not be that long) what you did that was good and not good in general terms....
Unless what you want to try is too freaky for them... ie: scat play

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Oh! Whoa! Uh, sorry, I just didn't expect such a response, and certainly not so quickly. Uh... I guess to address everyone as best I can:

You could also book one of the TAG escorts with the understanding they would be able to tell you exactly how you are in your sexual skillz... I'm sure they would be open and honest if knowing that was your purpose.. and you get to have sex as well LOL... This is not the lowest cost route, but IMO I think it would be the most beneficial to you as a self proclaimed newbie...

I did actually start out by going to a Soapland, and the main girl I saw there was truly supportive and helped me work through a lot of the crap that happened to me in HS. I eventually stopped though because
1) As you said, it was NOT cheap, especially since I was living in the countryside back then and needed to take a 2-hour train ride there.
2) While I was able to gain a lot more confidence and stop being afraid of the act of sex itself, at the end of the day this was a business transaction, and I realized that, while the Soapland girls helped me take my first steps, the next steps would have to be taken on my own. I have to go out there and find a girl who will sleep with me purely because she wants to if I want to get a handle on my confidence issues once and for all.
3) I got transferred to the big city, Tokyo, back in August, which has many more opportunities for foreigners in just about everything. I don't know how long this new position in the city will last, but I believe that fate wouldn't have given me this chance if it didn't want me to take it.

Unless what you want to try is too freaky for them... ie: scat play

Um... no thank you.

However, in what conceivable sense is Omotesando obscure??!!

Well I'd never heard of it till I came here. In all seriousness though, when I looked up Omotesando I found a lot of really amazing and interesting places to visit, but nothing specific on where to have hookups and whatnot.

Concerning the internet, I did try JapanCupid earlier this year, however
1) Again, I was living in the countryside, so my options were much fewer
2) My dream is to become a published author. Most of my free time is spent writing, and because of this I didn't have much time to fully devote myself to putting my profile out there and messaging people. Now that the first draft of my novel is done, and it's simply a matter of brushing things up before sending it out to publication, I have much more free time, and easier access to physical venues like bars and clubs.
3) I realized around this time that what happened to me in HS had affected me more deeply than I'd realized, and that I wanted to work through that before trying to have a standard relationship with a standard girlfriend. (This is when I found the Soapland)

Relationships can be as deep or shallow and as brief or enduring as you and your partner wish; there are not pre-determined sizes or rules to worry about. Just communicate your goals and constraints honestly and clearly and look for someone who wants the same thing you want. Try not to mislead anyone, and you are much less likely to be misled yourself. Also, don't be surprised if what both you and she want changes over time if it is more than a brief connection.

Okay, thank you sir!

Safe from what? But in reality that isn't achievable. Real life isn't safe in general, and little if anything in life is more real than relationships.

"Sigh", yeah... I know. It's just, I feel kind of like a baby bird that now has enough feathers to leave the nest, but I'd still like a parachute or something.

Not to be rude but what do you actually bring to the table? When people are looking for a “sex friend” they are usually looking for someone who can provide mind blowing sex, not for a sexual newbie. I think most girls have more patience with, and prefer a guy who is serious about their relationship instead of a guy who only wants to see them for sex and then is not even good at sex.

No, that isn't rude. I appreciate your honesty. And honestly, the only thing I can think of bringing to the table is a desire and ability to listen and learn and an understanding that there will always be more to learn. That's not exactly A-grade material though. I guess the reason I'd like a "sex friend" is because I don't know if I'd be ready for a full-blown romantic relationship, especially when, as Wwanderer pointed out, there's a whole new set of dating paradigms I'd have to learn. I just want something simpler than a "proper" relationship but more personal than what I was getting at the Soapland. (Not to rag on working girls. They were all extremely kind and helpful. It's just, again, I know that if I keep paying for it that will be a nagging issue in the back of my mind, which isn't fair to either me or them.)

As for places to look, clubs are indeed often one night hookup places with the girl sneaking out at the morning (the “walk of shame”) and then you’ll never hear from her again in many cases. They do also make for weird and/or lousy sex sometimes because of excessive alcohol consumption. Advantage is that you don’t have to be that good in bed per se because you can blame the alcohol if something goes wrong and she might not even remember it later.

No. I must apologize, but I do not want to have sex with a girl who is too inebriated to fully give consent.

Go for dance clubs or pubs, not bars since most people go to bars with friends and not to hook up afaik.
I think Hub is a good place to find girls who like foreigners, and if Gaspanic Shibuya is anything like Gaspanic Roppongi used to be, its exactly that kind of venue. If you wanna stay out of Roppongi, maybe try Womb for dance clubs, not particularly a pick up venue but lots of people in party mode and who knows what can happen.

Okay, thank you ma'am! Those sound much better, although I'm not much good when it comes to dancing.

Maybe you’d prefer more social settings. Those Japanese parties (i think called Gokon?) where an even amound of girls and boys meet and then they make pairs along the way, sound pretty perfect but i have no idea how they are organized. I think you need the right friends for something like that.

Are those like what happened in that movie "Love's Whirlpool" (愛の渦)? That does sound like a great experience, although the film positing most of the characters as inherently miserable people doesn't exactly engender the whole lifestyle.

If you are serious about wanting to try NEW things, visiting a happening bar would be a good idea. Yes, its expensive for single males and you are not guaranteed any action. But on the other hand, if you go out partying you spend so much on club admission and overpriced drinks that it doesn’t differ that much from happening bar (which usually have nomihodai) and you will most definitely SEE some very naughty play. Its also a good way to see how you lay in the market, if people would actually want you to join them in group sex or rather not and if single girls would choose you or not.

That... actually sounds... kind of like the happy medium I was looking for. There is the concern of cost, but if it's less expensive than Soaplands then I'm not too worried. And as you say, there's no guarantee anything will come from it, but there's no guarantee of anything coming out of a bar or dance club either, is there? At least at a happening bar, everyone would be open about their main goal being sex, and if it's anything like a Soapland then safety of the clients is a top concern of the staff, which would put me much more at ease. I don't know how I'd be able to handle having an audience, or even if the women there would want me. But you're right. Even if the answer is no, I would at least know. And the sheer novelty of a happening bar in comparison to an "ordinary" club makes my excitement great enough to override my nervousness.
Are there any happening bars that you would recommend? Also should I bring anything to those places besides condoms and wet wipes?

Thank you everybody for helping me!

 

[Wwanderer]

"Sigh", yeah... I know. It's just, I feel kind of like a baby bird that now has enough feathers to leave the nest, but I'd still like a parachute or something.

It is still very unclear to me, and probably all your readers, from what "danger" you seek "safety". STIs or being drugged/mugged or losing money or being embarrassed/humiliated or having your heart broken or ...

But whatever it is, I don't think anyone here or probably anyone at all can provide it since your goal seems to be to put something bad that happened to you in the past behind you by having success in a similar situation...but if the similar situation doesn't include the risk, then it doesn't help you. I expressed it in a pretty convoluted way in the previous sentence, but I'm talking about the feelings you expressed about gaining confidence via p4p. It definitely avoids the risk of all sorts of unpleasant outcomes but exactly because those risks are gone, it doesn't restore your confidence. (I think @BB0523's suggestion of seeing a TAG indie is excellent; that can be, if you wish, A LOT more like a conventional np4p encounter than a soapland experience.). Basically you seem to want to "get back in the saddle" wearing a seatbelt, but wearing the seatbelt also prevents you from gaining much sense of accomplishment or success. Just my reading of what you are saying, could be completely wrong.

Are there any happening bars that you would recommend? Also should I bring anything to those places besides condoms and wet wipes?

@User#8628's suggestion is also and as usual excellent too, but do note her warning that you are MUCH more likely to *see* some action than to get any, and lacking self-confidence is definitely going to make your chances of a "score" lower. Unless you are so exceptionally physically attractive in some way that women start approaching you, you're going to have to take the initiative of starting conversations and "selling" yourself to the ladies to have any chance at all.

9259, Bliss Out and Sleeping Beauty are the HBs most extensively discussed on TAG and all are pretty good in various ways. There are A LOT of details about each which you can read in various threads on TAG...not much point in repeating it all here.

But in any case, all HBs provide condoms and facilities for cleaning yourself up afterwards...no need to bring your own unless you need or want something special. If you need larger sized condoms, it might be good to bring those with you.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

One more suggestion for an alternative approach - sugaring. Again there is a whole TAG forum on the topic and much info elsewhere online (also a forum on Reddit I believe). What people mean by having a sugar arrangement varies all over the map; in some cases it is almost the same as being the regular customer of a conventional escort; in others it is nearly the same as being in a conventional np4p relationship, including FWB ones, in many/most respects. And, if you can find an appropriate SB, it can be almost anything in between...or off in some other dimension for that matter. So you might well find some form of sugaring that would suit your needs.

Exactly because there are so many variations and because most of those inhabiting the sugar bowl are more selective than in conventional p4p situations, it usually takes a significant amount of time and effort (and money) to find a good sugar match. But after all, "Every form of refuge has its price", so no surprise there.

-Ww

 

[User#8628]

You can look up some information on happening bars on the forum. I’m not sure what the rate is for single men, but i believe its usually 10.000~17.000 yen. (Depending on place and a bit more expensive the first time than after because you have to sign up.) so compared to soaplands, only Cream Lemon and Putit Royal are really that cheap afaik and thats for the shorter courses while with happening bar you have the whole night.
If you party hard and pay for club admission and individual drinks, it can also add up to something like this. And you may not be able to find someone either and if you do you may have to pay love hotel costs also so that adds up too...
So all in all happening bar isn’t so expensive but like wwander said, if you don’t approach people yourself, there is not much chance you’ll be able to join. You’ll see plenty of interesting things however and may get the hang of it. Its an experience worth trying to see if it suits you. Condoms and tissues are available there (wet wipes varies) and showers, and indeed the staff tries to make sure everyone is comfortable and safe (keep in mind you do have to show them you ID when signing up though).
Which place suits you depends. Bliss Out is the most gaijin friendly.
But if you are a resident and you have japanese health insurance and speak some Japanese, you may want to try one of the others.
9259 has very involved staff and is small and easy to overview. Sleeping beauty is a giant place but can get pretty wild on a busy night.


I also think escort and sugaring could be good suggestions although if your budget is not so wide its pretty difficult to realize. Sugaring can be cheaper per date but its also expected you see her regularly so it really needs some money to spare each month.

If you manage to find a sex friend somewhere, i suggest by all means you treat her great, not only trying to give her sexual pleasure but also complimenting her and letting her know that it’s definitely not her but that you’re not in the right place for a relationship now. On the other hand, the timing is never right for that and when the timing is right, the ideal person isn’t there so try to keep an open.mind for love if you find anyone.

 

[Wwanderer]

On the other hand, the timing is never right for that and when the timing is right, the ideal person isn’t there so try to keep an open.mind for love if you find anyone.

This.

-Ww

 

[Troilist]

All the suggestions and recommendations that have been made by other members are certainly a good place to start and something to consider. But from reading your post, you had motioned several times not being confident due to your past experiences/interactions with girls. Perhaps it might be more helpful in your current situation to work on your self-confidence first before trying/hoping to gain confidence through sexual encounters whether it being with one time hook ups or through any potential “sex friend.” Another thought to consider is to pay a professional wingman who can teach you some pointers on how to interact with girls in the social environment. I believe a member here, sinapse has mentioned offering this type of service and there are several threads on TAG that discuses “Nampa.” Imo, learning to be a good lover is easy; it’s a matter of being able to listen and communicate with your partner, knowing certain universal techniques which can be easily taught (through one of the indies on TAG) and with frequent practice.

Beyond learning how to be good in bed and since your goal is to ultimately find a “sex friend,” you won’t go very far if you are socially awkward. So, I suggest investing your initial funds into hiring a professional wingman, than save up and book a couple of sessions with one of the indies here on TAG and they can talk you through different useful techniques for bedroom play and finally just go for it and put yourself out there. If you strike out on the first couple of attempts, just view it as practice and don’t be too attached to the outcome. Good luck!

 

[Sparrowhawk]

But whatever it is, I don't think anyone here or probably anyone at all can provide it since your goal seems to be to put something bad that happened to you in the past behind you by having success in a similar situation...but if the similar situation doesn't include the risk, then it doesn't help you. I expressed it in a pretty convoluted way in the previous sentence, but I'm talking about the feelings you expressed about gaining confidence via p4p. It definitely avoids the risk of all sorts of unpleasant outcomes but exactly because those risks are gone, it doesn't restore your confidence. (I think @BB0523's suggestion of seeing a TAG indie is excellent; that can be, if you wish, A LOT more like a conventional np4p encounter than a soapland experience.). Basically you seem to want to "get back in the saddle" wearing a seatbelt, but wearing the seatbelt also prevents you from gaining much sense of accomplishment or success. Just my reading of what you are saying, could be completely wrong.

No, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. And I was sort of hoping there'd be a way to address the issue from an easier angle. But the more I think about it, and the more I hear advice from friends and such, the more I realize that this is something I have to attempt head-on.

I guess, I should clarify my goals. My ultimate, end-game goal relationship-wise is to find a nice girl and settle down. However, I want to reach a point where
1) I can make a living as a professional author
2) I can settle down back in the Tohoku countryside
3) I can get the better of my confidence issues
Before I take those final steps. Right now, I have taken my first steps confidence-wise, so that I'm not afraid of the sexual act itself and I know basic bedroom technique (It's not like there are that many techniques that work wonders every time though, are there? Like, every woman's body is different, and she has different things that work for her. For instance, I learned a tongue technique that worked very well on one Soapland girl, but didn't work as well on another girl, not due to the technique itself, but simply because she enjoyed PIV more than oral. Sorry, that was probably too much information, but am I on the right track in assuming good sexual skill is less about technique itself and more about being able to read your partner well?).
However, the next step I need to take is to find a girl who wants to sleep with me, and approach her and uh, woo her, I guess (is there a better word for that)? I don't have a problem with talking to women in general, it's just... propositioning her for stuff that I'm nervous about. It's just kind of hard (to me at least) to think of a way to start a conversation in a manner indicating my non-platonic interest in a woman without delving into silly pick-up lines (like the shirt made of boyfriend material).

Weirdly though, this is kind of why a Happening Bar sounds appealing. I've been doing some reading on this site, and while it looks like some women just come to these places to enjoy the free drinks (if they come at all), if I find a woman there, it'll be much more likely for her to be blunt and open about the possibility of sex. And even if nothing happens, I'll at least know that I'm not attractive enough and will have had a much more memorable experience than anything I could find at an "ordinary" dance club.

I guess, to give some physical description. I wouldn't say I'm a super model or anything, but I eat right, exercise regularly, and keep my personal hygiene in check. I feel a bit self-conscious about my upper body (most of my exercise comes from running, so I feel like my legs are disproportionately large), but I've started a new exercise regiment to work on that. My students and the neighborhood obaa-chan say I'm attractive, and ask if I have a girlfriend a lot of the time, but it's not like women I'd meet at the club would feel the same way as children and perverted grannies.
Still, if I keep repeating what those people have said to me in my mind, I think I can take the initial plunge. I don't know how to say "May I join?" or "Would you like to...?" in Japanese (would "やってみたい？" be appropriate?), but that's just a simple matter of internet searching, isn't it? I just have to sell myself and believe that I'm worth it (whoo boy).

Thank you everyone for the list of happening bars! Um, (I hate asking this), but do these places have condoms that go up to XL size (that's what I used at the Soapland)? After reading up on the site and your own advice, I think 9259 is the best fit for me. I couldn't find a website for Sleeping Beauty to look at, but Bliss Out looks like you have to pay by the hour, which would just make me feel too rushed and stressed.

Concerning sugaring, I did try becoming a regular client to my main girl at the Soapland, but what with the move to the big city, it kind of put a strain on my finances, and I was late and cheap on my last visits. Then I found out that she'd quit, which stinks, because she deserves a proper apology for my behavior.

If you manage to find a sex friend somewhere, i suggest by all means you treat her great, not only trying to give her sexual pleasure but also complimenting her and letting her know that it’s definitely not her but that you’re not in the right place for a relationship now. On the other hand, the timing is never right for that and when the timing is right, the ideal person isn’t there so try to keep an open.mind for love if you find anyone.

Yes ma'am! I know what you mean about timing, but if I was only interested in my own nut-busting, internet pornography is far cheaper and more convenient. It sounds like I've got more work to do with my skill and confidence though before I'm ready for a sex friend. But I want to take these steps, and become better, even if, as Troilist says, there might be some strike-outs along the way.

Thank you all!

 

[Acid Burn]

For instance, I learned a tongue technique that worked very well on one Soapland girl, but didn't work as well on another girl, not due to the technique itself, but simply because she enjoyed PIV more than oral. Sorry, that was probably too much information...

Have you browsed this site much? That was in no way too much information. Lol.

 

[Wwanderer]

Bliss Out looks like you have to pay by the hour

I don't think so. They never have when I've been there nor have I ever heard that before. What gave you that impression?

-Ww

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Have you browsed this site much? That was in no way too much information. Lol.

Oh, well, I mean... sorry. I just didn't want to come across as a backdoor bragger.

I don't think so. They never have when I've been there nor have I ever heard that before. What gave you that impression?

On the fees section of their site they have listed an "extension charge" of 2,000 yen per hour for single men, which makes it seem as though the time you're allowed there is limited.

 

[Wwanderer]

On the fees section of their site they have listed an "extension charge" of 2,000 yen per hour for single men, ...

I see. Well, I've never been there as a single, so maybe that's why it never came to my attention. I have a vague recollection of an HB which had a discounted admission fee in the afternoon and which charged something extra if you stayed past the time where they started charging their normal evening fee. That could have been Bliss, but in any case, that is different than an hourly charge. Thanks for pointing it out.

-Ww

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Yar, least I could do, sir.