My Adventures + Tips And Tricks : Deai Cafe, Fashion Health, Deliheru, Pink Salon, Massage Etc.

[jpexplorer]

I don't know exactly where I should post this as this post is not specific any one shop. Mod, please feel free to move it anywhere else. I have gain a lot of knowledge from reading this site, and really helped my adventures. and I thought Ill give it back to the community as much as I can.

Ill quickly summarize what I have experienced in japan with the different types of services. And also some tips in tricks while travelling in japan.

Language recommendations

You dont need to have too much Japanese. But I recommend learning a full year of Japanese at least if you want to have the full experience. Here are the minimum, in my, opinion.

• Learn numbers/money
• Learn time/durations
• learn to say yes/no/good/bad
• learn to say, you're going to leave (in a polite way)

Deai Cafe
Ill start with Deai because I thought it's the most interesting. In a nutshell, Deai cafe, i.e date cafe, is what I call the "fish tank". In most cases, Is the guys looking at the girls in the tank and the guys doing the picking. Except for one location in shibuya, where its the girl picking the guys. A lot of information has already been posted and are pretty accurate. (do a search here). I wont restate what has already been stated

• 99% of the girls are probably pro's . (except for the "girl picking guy location").Im suspecting the shop pays them to sit there and look good tbh.
• the guy picking girl locations has higher quality girls in general ( but are mostly pros i think)
• I tried the "girl picking guy location" couple of times. The girls are a mixture of pros and civilians, But i find the quality extremely bad. There may be situation where you'll run into a unicorn, but I highly doubt that will happen. I interviewed around 10 girls and the non-pros + pros are mostly unfuckable. You will find yourself waiting around, interviewing unfuckables, and the need to reject them time and again. It is just a pain. Again, sample size is too small to make a conclusion. I personally think there are a lot of potential with "girl picking guy" because its really easy for the girl to make extra money and only with the guy they fancy. Let face it, lot of japanese quite poor. I wonder why not more pretty girl use this service.. hmmm.
• 15000yen- 20000yen is probably enough to check the girls out for an hour of "hoteru". But add on the cost of entrance and checkout fee (2100x2) + hotel fee (3000~). You are probably looking at around 25000+
• FS is expected and probably BBFS too.
• the guys outnumber the girls by a lot 10:3/4 something like that.
• most guys are quite picky, they just sits around and play with their phones.
• A lot of the guys are older like in their 40-50s
• It easy to sit around and wait for new girls to come, but I think its a waste of time. You will find yourself sitting and waste so much time looking at the fish tank. I recommend going in, take a look, if nothing is there move on to the next shop.
• If you do plan to stick around, I recommend bringing your laptop and do some productive work while waiting for girls to come.
• Be careful of getting "scammed" I wouldnt say scammed, because I got into the situation myself. Basically, I picked out this really pretty girl. And She said she doesnt do "hoteru", So i thought to myself, Ill charm the hell out of her, and get her to do it. However, that is not the case, 5000 yen for 1 hour meal. All fault of my own.
• Gaijin are welcomed, although you gotta have to speak a little japanese. (not with the girls as there are smart phone translators),but more to coordinate with "people working there"
• Learn the numbers in Japanese, as you will be called in numbers as well as the need to call out girls by numbers
• The card you fill out when picking out the girl, the girl never read it. I dont know why they have it. Just fill in your name, and its probably sufficient.

to be continued....

 

[User#16452]

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[User#8628]

^ kirari has a card that guys have to fill in i think?

Anyway, for the rest i agree with jblair.

Cafe is a good way to assure you dont get bait and switch and a relative cheap fs in most cases but only the girls looking like they are homeless do that for 5000.
Have some respect.

 

[User#8628]

What's the point of p4p if you barely wanna pay? I dont really understand.

Anyway, in cafe its also you get what you pay for. There will be some cheap girls but the cute, young, clean Japanese girls will know their worth.

 

[SpookySmoothie]

There will be some cheap girls but the cute, young, clean Japanese girls will know their worth.

It's all about quality when it comes to deciding what to spend on anything in this world. It's like when you buy computer parts or cars,jewellery whatever. How bad do you want it? Why is it better than everything else on offer? If you want your dream girl how wide are you prepared to open your wallet? She probably has a lot of guys knocking at her door and she could have any one of them you need to make it worth it for her to give you what you want. In the end nobody wants a cheapskate unless they are desperate.

 

[RandomTokyoGuy]

What's the point of p4p if you barely wanna pay? I dont really understand.

I'm not an expert in the history of deai cafés, but I think it's an assumption on your part that it is only P4P. Unfortunately it's rare, but there are girls just looking for a date too. Judging by the name that is probably where it originates.
About the price point, given that many of the girls look only for a quick one pop session 5 or 10k is not out of line what you would pay for this kind of service in Europe. Not everyone can charge 30k.

As far as I know, this is not the case for women being paid to sit there.

Not sure if they get paid, but one of the girls I met there told me they get free transfers (to other shops and home). I met her in ikebukuro, but she was sometimes transferred to Yokohama too by her words.

 

[User#16452]

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[Sudsy]

As far as I know, this is not the case for women being paid to sit there.

A lot of deai cafes employ sakura. I new a girl who used to do that, she got 2K an hour to hang out and look pretty.

(For those who don't know, "sakura" are ringers, in this case a girl paid to look like she's available. The term also applies to the people running fake profiles on dating sites.)

 

[User#8628]

I know many of the Japanese girls personally and a young chubby girl (as in cute chubby, some guys their type) told me that she asks 20.000 if the guys ask her price.
Its pretty common knowledge that the Japanese girls ask 20.000 or 15.000, not 5000 (heard another girl say she gets offered 5000 for hand job in cafe).

There was a girl who was rumored to do it for 5000 but she looked like a drug addict, her hair was a hot mess and her clothes were broken, eyeliner all over her face, if i was a customer i would be afraid she wanted to attack me.

5000 is 30 euro. The best you get for that in europe is 20 minutes (that she wont fully use) with a fat old east european who sits in the same room whole day and get probably more than 10 guys a day (the hotter women in that kind of shops charge 50 euro usually, about 7000) as far as i know.
Yes, if you call the more unattractive women they will probably go for 5000, but dont even try with the cuties, they will just get irritated.

10000 is a more reasonable aim, on a quiet day a moderately cute girl could agree on that i suppose.
But once again, as far as i know from my Japanese friends there 20.000 and 15.000 is far more common.
On a busy day, a girl will most likely turn down 10.000 if she knows she can get called again and the next one might be willing to pay more.

If you want to negociate, here is some advice from a woman. Don't say "you are not worth it" because that hurts her and even if she would go out with you after that she'd not be nice to you.
Rather say something like "i can't affort it". Personally i try to understand how the bad economy affects my clients and i can have sympathy for that.
So she'll probably try to come closer to you with her offer.

I know that not everyone can ask 30.000. But just know, the girls who get called a lot are not gonna settle for a bad offer.

 

[User#8628]

It's all about quality when it comes to deciding what to spend on anything in this world. It's like when you buy computer parts or cars,jewellery whatever. How bad do you want it? Why is it better than everything else on offer? If you want your dream girl how wide are you prepared to open your wallet? She probably has a lot of guys knocking at her door and she could have any one of them you need to make it worth it for her to give you what you want. In the end nobody wants a cheapskate unless they are desperate.

Exactly.
I think less attractive women can definitely give a good service and have a nice character. But fact is that looks are important in the business. Even for chubby girls and older women, there is definitely a difference in cute chubs and hanging overweight and in MILF and grey hairs, wrinkles and a 3 children badly recovered body.

Also i just asked a Japanese friend i'm hanging out with atm what he thought is the normal price for a reasonable looking japanese girls in deai cafe and he said 15000 so don't count too much on getting it for cheap. On a quiet day maybe but don't get your hopes up too much. Especially for a foreigner! Many girls might turn them down for the language gap or because they expect a bigger dick so heavier work.

 

[Wwanderer]

If you want to negociate, here is some advice from a woman. Don't say "you are not worth it" because that hurts her and even if she would go out with you after that she'd not be nice to you.

You'd think this would be totally f-ing obvious to anyone of normal intelligence, but it is a point I've made over and over again in years past on p4p boards in the US (open and closed ones). There are always lots of guys who take pride in driving a hard bargain and brow beating escorts mercilessly to lower their prices; then they turn around and complain about what bad attitudes and unfriendly/disinterested service escorts have...and don't see the connection, sometimes won't acknowledge it even after it is pointed out to them. Idiotic!

Btw, this is true in many contexts beyond sex work. If you hire someone to do something for you (e.g., a carpenter to make some repairs on your home), don't expect their best work if you insult them in the process of settling on a price.

Better even than @User#8628 's good advice imo is this: Don't negotiate. Period. Just move on and look for someone less expensive if you can't afford to pay what she asks. This is particularly wise in places/cultures in which negotiating prices on things is uncommon, as it is Japan. If you are mongering somewhere in the world in which haggling is just the normal way of doing all business, it is different.

-Ww

 

[SpookySmoothie]

Always seen negotiating on p4p as bad manners. You are not dealing with a rug salesman in Egypt they are offering something very intimate so some awareness of the situation helps. I guess I can go back to my car analogy if you go to the Ferrari showroom and say "I want this car but I want to pay the absolute minimal possible" they are going to laugh at you. If you can't afford that perfect 10 with the model looks and great boobs there are always other options on the market. It seems like some people have really odd opinions on what is reasonable to pay for P4P and it's a worry that some girls may be put off on dealing with foreigners if they feel they are constantly trying to lowball them. As stated above to me at least 20,000 for a chubby but cute type is really cheap like I'd probably go for it at that price. I'm sure others know it's cheap just some people want to get the most they can and pay as little as possible.

 

[namae]

If you are mongering somewhere in the world in which haggling is just the normal way of doing all business, it is different.

In non-mongering contexts, it is quite fun not to haggle in countries where haggling is the practice ...... although potentially dangerous to your own health and safety. I still let out a Dr. Evil laugh when I think of one of my non-haggling wins (... in a small real estate transaction).

BTW and totally off point, what is the origin of the word "mongering". I would never have guessed its meaning. It seems more appropriate to describe an activity like removing human waste from a 19th century deep pit coal mine, than P4P activites. The word itself just "sounds" horrible to me -- irrational I know.

 

[Wwanderer]

In non-mongering contexts, it is quite fun not to haggle in countries where haggling is the practice ...... although potentially dangerous to your own health and safety.

Indeed so. There are places where it is considered insulting when you do *not* haggle for something. As best I understand the sentiment, not haggling is taken as an arrogant show of wealth and as contempt for what is being sold or who is selling it.

BTW and totally off point, what is the origin of the word "mongering". I would never have guessed its meaning. It seems more appropriate to describe an activity like removing human waste from a 19th century deep pit coal mine, than P4P activites. The word itself just "sounds" horrible to me -- irrational I know.

It is a word from old English and is usually used in combination with some other noun, as in "war monger" or "fish monger". In the present/TAG context it is from "whore monger". I don't particularly care for the term either due to its negative connotations, but nearly every term that refers to p4p has negative connotations due its social stigmatization. In the early years of online p4p communities, "hobbyist" was a very popular term for regular customers in the p4p world (implying the notion that p4p is a sort of hobby/recreation...a reasonable perspective imo), but it seems to have passed from common usage.

-Ww

 

[namae]

What's the point of p4p if you barely wanna pay? I dont really understand.

I guess it can be explained as normal consumer behaviour. Some people will look for "value" at low price points.

 

[lawsson]

Great post, OP

I have been to a Deai a handful of times and want to add 3 more (perhaps obvious?) points:
1) Money - It's all about the money. It doesn't really matter if you're an Ikemen if you don't offer the right amount. She'll gladly walk out with another guy who meets her target.

2) Purpose - Everyone going to a Deai has their own purpose. If what your looking for doesn't match up with hers than you're SOL. I have been asked straight-up if I want to go to a Hotel but I wasn't interested that particular time. Obviously, the opposite can happen too - just take it all in stride

3) Pray for good luck - There are times when Deai's are more active than others but quality depends on what you're looking for. The popular girls will always gather a lot of attention so pray for luck when choosing a card or when playing じゃんけんぽん to get the 1st chance to talk with her!

 

[Wwanderer]

Gaijin are welcomed, although you gotta have to speak a little japanese. (not with the girls as there are smart phone translators),but more to coordinate with "people working there"

• Learn the numbers in Japanese, as you will be called in numbers as well as the need to call out girls by numbers

As little as a year or two back I was given to understand that deal cafés did not generally allow gaijin customers, even ones fluent in Japanese. Has this changed in general or only for a few places or did I misunderstand the situation back then?

Personally I am not particularly interested in that end of the market, but I like to try most things at least once, and in any case, there is always the possibility that my sugar dating will get out of control and wreck my finances so that I have to return to the downscale market.

-Ww

 

[User#16452]

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[Midlife Crisis]

Reading these, it's really hard to imagine some regular Japanese guy lucky enough to come across @User#8628 or @User#16452 at one of these cafes and then being thick-headed and/or egotistical enough to try to negotiate! Unbelievable.
Then again, we've seen our share of this type around TAG.

 

[just4fun]

As little as a year or two back I was given to understand that deal cafés did not generally allow gaijin customers, even ones fluent in Japanese. Has this changed in general or only for a few places or did I misunderstand the situation back then?

Personally I am not particularly interested in that end of the market, but I like to try most things at least once, and in any case, there is always the possibility that my sugar dating will get out of control and wreck my finances so that I have to return to the downscale market.

-Ww

The one in Akiba is Not......let me repeat "NOT" friendly to "me".

 

[Solong]

As far as I know, this is not the case for women being paid to sit there.


I do not know any women who would have bareback sex with a man from a café. There might be some that do but I would not count on all.


This is not a scam. It should say on the woman's card what she is looking to do, be it have a meal with you, sing karaoke or go to a hotel. In addition, this should be discussed before making an agreement to leave the café.

Honestly, it sounds like you tried to scam her into going to the hotel with you for a measly 5,000 yen when this is not something she wanted.

On BBFS, I agree this is unlikely, with the exception you become her regular or it becomes a sugar-daddy type arrangement.

5,000 yen is for having the woman come out and eat or drink with you. Certain guys, usually Japanese, think they can attempt to create a romantic connection in this situation OR it's a more comfortable way to negotiate going to the hotel. Some guys don't like the time pressure (5 and 10 minute timer) or feel uncomfortable talking about sex and hotels in the cafe.

However, the 5,000 to 10,000 eat or karaoke, is usually a bad idea and scam. Many women going this route, usually don't want sex or are anti-sexual. They want to scam money from guys, and then return to the deai cafe as fast as possible to find another victim. If a guy goes this route, it's better if he makes it clear he wants dinner and the hotel.

If a guy wants to go to the hotel, it's actually better to be direct, and choose a woman who will go that route from the cafe directly. In fact, be clear about whatever at the cafe and negotiating in the room, as this results in less problems.

 

[Solong]

A lot of deai cafes employ sakura. I new a girl who used to do that, she got 2K an hour to hang out and look pretty.

(For those who don't know, "sakura" are ringers, in this case a girl paid to look like she's available. The term also applies to the people running fake profiles on dating sites.)

Totally agree about Sakura. This is a long established trick in Japan. And a wide variety of places will do this. Discos, clubs, bars, and even happening bars...

They have some stunners appear in the cafe, but their purpose is mostly just to attract customers into the cafe. However, in the deai cafes, they have to be careful and have a balance, because if the pretty women aren't going anywhere or if the customers identify the Sakura, then they leave and spend money elsewhere.

 

[Solong]

5000 is 30 euro. The best you get for that in europe is 20 minutes (that she wont fully use) with a fat old east european who sits in the same room whole day and get probably more than 10 guys a day (the hotter women in that kind of shops charge 50 euro usually, about 7000) as far as i know.

I have been to Europe. In places like Germany, Amsterdam, Prague, etc... 30 to 40 euro can get you some VERY good looking, SLIM, and tall women of much higher quality than in Japan. This is because the competition is stronger or sex shops are legal and out in the open (like Amsterdam). Ugly women make NO money, when the pretty woman is doing for 30 to 40 euro. In fact anal, with various women, is 40 to 50 euro.

In Germany, the motivation to go out and talk with women in clubs is severely hampered because sex is so cheap and easily available with decent to good looking women.

 

[jpexplorer]

Update

Thanks for the contribution to this post. Very much appreciate it. I try to give as much info as possible, but these info are according to my personal experiences, and may not reflect the reality. as with everything ymmv.

Tokyo travelling reflections

Dining Alone
Something I really enjoy is that fact that it's socially acceptable to eat alone, and this applies to almost all restaurants, except for those izayaka, yakiniku or the really expensive places where you are supposed to go with other people. And even with yakiniku, there are more places where its caters for solo diners.
Japan is really great if you want to travel alone and enjoy yourself alone.

Dating
P4P is at every corner of the street and easily accessible. Men can experience almost (excluding real emotional intimacy) everything through p4p without the need to maintain a gf.

Hotel location
Dont cheap out on hotel and get something in area where you monger the most. It saves hotel fees as most of the deliheru's and deai cafes' are located in shinjuku, shibuya, ikebukuro, so it is advisable to book hotel in those area. Many shops dont like sending out girls outside of their area and also it may cost more to do so. And you dont need to worry about catching the last train.

Japanese girls
Be prepared for bad teeth and bad dental hygiene. Many of the girls I met seems to have really yellow and crooked teeth. In general there are no bad breath associated to it fortunately. Their skin is also not as soft and smooth as their korean counterpart.

Japanese Mongering agencies
They are usually honest for the most part. No bait and switches. Shows real pictures, keeps reservations, keeps promises.

 

[User#8628]

Reading these, it's really hard to imagine some regular Japanese guy lucky enough to come across @User#8628 or @User#16452 at one of these cafes and then being thick-headed and/or egotistical enough to try to negotiate! Unbelievable.
Then again, we've seen our share of this type around TAG.

Thank you.
Some people probably really can't afford the money though. If they ask politely i don't mind a negotiation. Can always turn down equally politely and give them credit for trying.