Non cold-call pick up methods?

[okayspot]

So, every relationship I"ve ever been with has been with a night worker (paying or non-paying). Yes Pathetic, thanks!

Need to pick it up and before I get too old- last year of my 20s - stop paying for it, and try to actually have a real relationship.

Picking up people on the street is not something I"m fond of doing.

I"m confident in my looks, my talking skills, unless I"m comfortable and in control of the conversation, are garbage. my understanding of Japanese is fluent, I still speak like I'm a retarded elementary schooler with an incredibly large vocab though.

Question is where to start?

Read books on conversation techniques?

Some ideas:

1. Find a Japanese young male friend to go to the single bars (相席） together? The question would be where to find this young JP male friend.
2. Tinder worked for me 2-3 years ago to meet people in real life, I wasn't looking for a relationship at that time though. Lately, I hardly match and when I do conversations go nowhere, think the population 2-3 years ago was looking more for foreigners and it has hit the general population now.
3. Workplace -> not possible, every female is directly or indirectly my subordinate, the last thing I want to be hit with is sexual harassment claims.

That's about all I got.

Random other question.

1. Does black humor ironic Self-depreciation work in Japan? The people that I"m amazed at how they have got relationships are big-headed egos that talk about how great they are... wondering if I should try it out....

 

[MikeH]

You learn to speak by speaking. Find a hobby group or something you actually like doing and join in. And then speak with everybody without caring about any mistakes.

Soon your Japanese gets better and you may even pick up a friend or two in the way. Then they introduce you to their friends and soon it gets busy.

If you want to try the workplace way then invite people for drinks and ask them to bring friend too. Every secretary I know just loves to invite her friends working at other companies for food and drinks.

 

[Lukes]

Tinder is hit or miss for actually scoring with a Japanese girl because many of them have the weird idea that it's for finding platonic friends (or so I hear...) but hey, even if that was the case you could potentially get some hangouts, maybe a friend or score if you're lucky.

 

[warubuta]

It is interesting to me that you are doing well career-wise but maybe not doing so great socially, or at least with the ladies anyway. You got a job where you are the boss! You are confident in your looks! Yet you fail to get laid by civilians. Hmm. Before you work on pick up techniques and strategy, I would try to analyze this from the root. If you figure it out, it could make a huge difference in your quality of life. You do P4P and you have extended some of your P4P relationships into non-P4P. In both scenarios , I would venture to say that you are the boss or the controlling party. Maybe this is where the issue lies. Do you have any relationships where you are not the boss? Relationships where control is split or moves back and forth? All just stupid speculation on my part. Anyway, if you think there is any truth to my observation, I would recommend that you put yourself in a situation where you are around women in your target age range who are in a dominant or at least completely equal position to you. Now I am not talking about bdsm or any of that crap. Pick an activity that you are not very good at or something that you want to learn to do. A sport or outdoor activity, a musical instrument, whatever, and join a club. Learn to play the fucking ukulele! Believe it or not, my buddy signed up for beginner group ukulele lessons and managed to meet and bed a few ladies as a result. He sucked at ukulele and they loved it. They loved teaching him and laughing at him and he got them to come to his house to give him lessons....you get the picture. Oh one more thing, language is not really your issue. Because your spoken language is less than perfect, you are less able to control your interactions with women. This is the issue. Your Japanese is never going to be as good as your English. It will always feel like doing watch repair while wearing wool mittens. You have to GIVE UP on the need to control. Let yourself be at least partiality controlled or sometimes controlled. And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[mr roboto]

Black humor in Japan does not work very well. Unfortunately for me.
Cannot stop myself to do some at work, my colleagues start to get use it now but I did get plenty of awkward looks
I don't recommend it for pick-up girl.

 

[FallenLaughter]

Try finding groups that have common interests and maybe making some friends. I find the easiest way to pick up somebody in Japan is having some rapport with somebody they know and having something in common. The last two people I started hooking up with I met from knowing their friend, the second was through the first when we all went out for Halloween. The first we both have the same friends and were invited to a party so I already had an excuse to talk to her without randomly approaching her as a stranger since we were introduced. After that it's just a case of developing interesting personality traits to hook her in and make her feel like having sex with me is worthwhile.

Don't waste your time over thinking it or reading books. Go out and meet some real people, get better at talking to different kinds of people and increase your conversational skills and confidence. If you don't have interesting personality traits and a healthy social life then relationships with women will also not come easy. If you have confidence and a booming social life already then the only reason you're not in a relationship would be you go out your way to avoid women that you're not paying for sex for whatever reason.

 

[User#8628]

So, every relationship I"ve ever been with has been with a night worker (paying or non-paying). Yes Pathetic, thanks!

Wow thanks dude

Imo, everyone who can get a “night worker” for non paid has upped their game far above girls who pick up vanilla women.
Get something for free that anyone has a shot at or get something for free that other people pay 10.000s of yen for? Easy choice.

 

[Sinapse]

Picking up people on the street is not something I"m fond of doing.

It's not something anyone really is fond of doing at first. In fact, it terrifies most (socially adjusted) people.

But neither are people enthralled by other important activities like brushing their teeth or making their bed. Nor do people feel "fond" of doing other scary but rewarding things like moving to a new country or going skydiving.

But because so few people actually can get themselves to do it is precisely why it's rewarding in the end.

Ultimately if you want to get better in the most efficient manner possible you do have to cold approach women. If you suck with women (aka if you've never slept with a woman of her own volition) you have to accept that you have some ground to make up.

Even if you spend a lot of time working social circles or messing around pretending you're interested in ukeleles or whatever you're still going to mess up with the girls you meet there. You have to improve your social skills, fashion, etc.

The more you try to protect your ego and avoid the discomfort that comes from cold approach the longer it will take you to overcome this... Rip the band-aid off... It's not pleasant (at first) and it's not easy... But it IS worth it and you can have a sex life that few can imagine

 

[warubuta]

It's not something anyone really is fond of doing at first. In fact, it terrifies most (socially adjusted) people.

But neither are people enthralled by other important activities like brushing their teeth or making their bed. Nor do people feel "fond" of doing other scary but rewarding things like moving to a new country or going skydiving.

But because so few people actually can get themselves to do it is precisely why it's rewarding in the end.

Ultimately if you want to get better in the most efficient manner possible you do have to cold approach women. If you suck with women (aka if you've never slept with a woman of her own volition) you have to accept that you have some ground to make up.

Even if you spend a lot of time working social circles or messing around pretending you're interested in ukeleles or whatever you're still going to mess up with the girls you meet there. You have to improve your social skills, fashion, etc.

The more you try to protect your ego and avoid the discomfort that comes from cold approach the longer it will take you to overcome this... Rip the band-aid off... It's not pleasant (at first) and it's not easy... But it IS worth it and you can have a sex life that few can imagine

This is great and totally true. My point about ukuleles earlier is still important. A lot of people spend their lives running in ruts where they never interface with new people. Getting out of the rut is important. Figuring out how to talk to people is the important next step.

 

[okayspot]

It's not something anyone really is fond of doing at first. In fact, it terrifies most (socially adjusted) people.

But neither are people enthralled by other important activities like brushing their teeth or making their bed. Nor do people feel "fond" of doing other scary but rewarding things like moving to a new country or going skydiving.

But because so few people actually can get themselves to do it is precisely why it's rewarding in the end.

I think the fact I"ve seen so many people in my day-to-day lie that horrible at it and just piss people off, heard complaints from my female co-workers is what puts me off to it. I will be honest, I paid 10,000 yen a few years back for pick-up lessons in a group by a Japanese ナンパ master, with other Japanese, We moved in a group, the students just basically ran around Shinjuku pissing people off, I checked Twitter afterwards and found multiple tweets of people comments on what was happening.

I have no trouble going essentially starting fights with the pack of rip-off touts in Ikebukuro,

warubuta's point;

Yes, what you are saying is correct confident as can be when I'm in a position of power, If I'm the lesser power though I become socially inept... hmm Thanks for all the advice in this thread.

 

[Sinapse]

I think the fact I"ve seen so many people in my day-to-day lie that horrible at it and just piss people off, heard complaints from my female co-workers is what puts me off to it. I will be honest, I paid 10,000 yen a few years back for pick-up lessons in a group by a Japanese ナンパ master, with other Japanese, We moved in a group, the students just basically ran around Shinjuku pissing people off, I checked Twitter afterwards and found multiple tweets of people comments on what was happening.

It's rather easy to approach in a confident but respectful way that doesn't piss people off. When women complain about "nanpa" they generally mean leering drunk salaryman, catcalls, whistles, wayward gropes, half-hearted pickup lines. They're not really talking about a well-groomed, normal dude going up to them in a calm manner and sparking a conversation. Even if she's not interested she won't be angry or upset as long as you went about it the right way. If she wants to leave, just let her. Easy

 

[okayspot]

Follow up to this:

I'm going with the put 50,000 yen into Tinder boosts and super likes and see if it works approach,
I met 4 people on Tinder in real life 3-4 years, back when it first started and I was far less experienced in how to handle dates etc. Really regret not staying in contact with one of them. I can at least match with the sub-culture I'm interested in,(the type of subculture person I like goes to art museums and cafes, used clothing stores, generally isn't hanging out at clubs or bars...)

However, now that I've restarted
When my not even attractive matches tell me they have 4000 matches, it starts making me think it is an impossible game though.

if you want to get laid
Reading stories about why Japanese girls have been pissed off at tinder, It seems like the best tactic right now is just to bait and switch putting down your job as some job people think of as high-paying / high society job and use people.
I don't want to do that though.

Anyway will see how my month-long experiment of not going to sex shops and just using tinder to try and look for a real relationship works. If I have not met a single person by Feb. 11, I give up on this as a viable option to spend money on!

 

[BB0523]

Follow up to this:

I'm going with the put 50,000 yen into Tinder boosts and super likes and see if it works approach,
I met 4 people on Tinder in real life 3-4 years, back when it first started and I was far less experienced in how to handle dates etc. Really regret not staying in contact with one of them. I can at least match with the sub-culture I'm interested in,(the type of subculture person I like goes to art museums and cafes, used clothing stores, generally isn't hanging out at clubs or bars...)

However, now that I've restarted
When my not even attractive matches tell me they have 4000 matches, it starts making me think it is an impossible game though.

if you want to get laid
Reading stories about why Japanese girls have been pissed off at tinder, It seems like the best tactic right now is just to bait and switch putting down your job as some job people think of as high-paying / high society job and use people.
I don't want to do that though.

Anyway will see how my month-long experiment of not going to sex shops and just using tinder to try and look for a real relationship works. If I have not met a single person by Feb. 11, I give up on this as a viable option to spend money on!

Keep us posted on how the Tinder thing works out for you... also, don't forget to go to your museums, cafes, & used clothing stores.... when you see a girl that draws your attention, just ask her..... what she thinks of the art piece, food she is having, or what other used clothing stores she visits (especially in that area and ask her if she could show you where it's located - even if you know) normal conversation ensues..... and thank her for talking to you, tell her you enjoyed it, and ask if possible to do again in the future - exchange contact details... if she disappears, so be it, but at least you are doing something you enjoy...

 

[User#8628]

just using tinder to try and look for a real relationship works

Nobody uses tinder to look for a real relationship.

 

[oLUXo]

Nobody uses tinder to look for a real relationship.

I know a couple coworkers that used tinder and within a year, put a ring on it so in Japan, I would say it's more for a real relationship. Everywhere else, I'd say it's just for a hot night out.

 

[jhingy567]

Two of my friends are in LTRs from using tinder in Europe and Australia. Not sure if that was intended though.

 

[User#8628]

Two of my friends are in LTRs from using tinder in Europe and Australia. Not sure if that was intended though.

Yeah. Its happens, but its usually not the reason people sign up.

 

[oLUXo]

Yeah. Its happens, but its usually not the reason people sign up.

From my experience, Japanese women sign up exactly for that reason. Every time I mention a dinner date after small talk, they just disappear or mention not looking for ONS. I explain the actual point of tinder and they unmatch...only in Japan...

 

[User#8628]

From my experience, Japanese women sign up exactly for that reason. Every time I mention a dinner date after small talk, they just disappear or mention not looking for ONS. I explain the actual point of tinder and they unmatch...only in Japan...

Afaik Japanese women use tinder to “make friends”, not to find a boyfriend.

 

[Ojaysee]

Afaik Japanese women use tinder to “make friends”, not to find a boyfriend.

I can certainly verify that, at least in my experience.

 

[okayspot]

Giving that promised update!

I spent a little less than 20,000 yen on the app, my results:

Got burnt out by too many matches, I get stressed talking to a large amount of people I don't know for when they (No problems talking to people at work) or I'm not paying money

I got something like 150 matches by using boosts 5-6 times a day, but maybe only half of these actually replied to me, the rest was just pure silence. Really was not interested in the majority of the matches, and the ones that I were interested in ghosted quickly, Haven't loaded up the app in 2 weeks and just ghosted people myself.
One success story in getting the line of a girl and meeting her this Friday.


Super Likes -

1. Unless you are pretty sure a girl has a reason to message you and you want to get to the front of her line, Super Likes are a waste of money, the people that will reply to you and want to talk to you will find you out in normal methods or boosts, You are getting a ton of inactive girls, my success rate for super likes was less than 5-10%, none of these people engaged in conversations longer than a few sentences.

 

[Petite Nymphet]

1. Unless you are pretty sure a girl has a reason to message you and you want to get to the front of her line, Super Likes are a waste of money

Sorry you feel like you've wasted your money and had a bit of a stressful time! Hopefully you have a nice time on Friday meeting this girl and it makes up for it all

 

[george0]

Thanks for the update okayspot.

Was thinking about trying this myself, now I might reconsider haha

 

[Sinapse]

Giving that promised update!

I spent a little less than 20,000 yen on the app, my results:

Got burnt out by too many matches, I get stressed talking to a large amount of people I don't know for when they (No problems talking to people at work) or I'm not paying money

I got something like 150 matches by using boosts 5-6 times a day, but maybe only half of these actually replied to me, the rest was just pure silence. Really was not interested in the majority of the matches, and the ones that I were interested in ghosted quickly, Haven't loaded up the app in 2 weeks and just ghosted people myself.
One success story in getting the line of a girl and meeting her this Friday.


Super Likes -

1. Unless you are pretty sure a girl has a reason to message you and you want to get to the front of her line, Super Likes are a waste of money, the people that will reply to you and want to talk to you will find you out in normal methods or boosts, You are getting a ton of inactive girls, my success rate for super likes was less than 5-10%, none of these people engaged in conversations longer than a few sentences.

The problem with online game is that 90% of the guys are competing for 10% of the girls and any old idiot can swipe her and start chatting.

Fatigue for attractive girls is high, and the supply and demand works against you because swiping requires absolutely no bravery or anything at all on your part and the barrier to entry is basically rock bottom (whereas only about 5% of the populace has the balls to do cold approach)

I've long noticed that the best, most attractive girl a guy can get (if he can get over his nervousness) will always be met in person. Through cold approach you can get girls who never would respond or even be on Tinder

 

[User#8628]

The problem with online game is that 90% of the guys are competing for 10% of the girls and any old idiot can swipe her and start chatting.

Fatigue for attractive girls is high, and the supply and demand works against you because swiping requires absolutely no bravery or anything at all on your part and the barrier to entry is basically rock bottom (whereas only about 5% of the populace has the balls to do cold approach)

I've long noticed that the best, most attractive girl a guy can get (if he can get over his nervousness) will always be met in person. Through cold approach you can get girls who never would respond or even be on Tinder

Also keep in mind that people on the internet can be very different from real life. This goes for escorts but for normal people just as well.
This generation has mastered the art of filters and tactful poses. Someone may have a very different skin and figure than you imagine. Or they could be using old pictures and be much older than they claim or have changed their hairstyle and look more boring than they seemed in pictures to fit in with a new job or something. I personally wont risk online dating.