Post 1st & 2nd Fuuzoku Experience & Questions

[iamyuu]

This is the 4th part of four posts in different forum sections:
(1) Pre 1st & 2nd fuuzoku experience - link
(2) Darling Harbour with Ryou-chan - link
(3) Dolce with Momo-chan - link
(4) Post 1st & 2nd fuuzoku experience & Questions - here

Thoughts:
1. Being in Japan for more than 10 years, I’ve never been annoyed by any discrimination of me being a foreigner. The Hybrid Health Massage and initial Dolce rejections was another first, first time being irritated at such discrimination, though I understand somewhat the reasons.

2. In addition to expanding my sexual experience and technique, I’ve also realized that I have a certain sex personality. Not so much S vs. M, but more like I prefer a session where my lady feels good. So, whether she fakes it or not, I think a partner that cums well and shows she enjoys me is probably better for me than a partner that leads or has tremendous technique to make me finish more than twice. Of course, I’d be lucky to have ones who are both.

3. Partly for the above, having good Japanese ability helps ease the pressure on my date.

4. Maybe the above refers to sexual preferences. Knowing myself, being someone who values broad new experience rather than deep experience (for all things in life), I’ll probably be chasing variety, trying different girls, different establishments. But if I want to deep satisfying sex, maybe I need to narrow down more what I want. Of course, my wallet would dictate which establishments I can frequent.

5. I understand now that photoshopped photos is just part of the fuuzoku experience. I don’t mind a bit of body photoshopping or a bit of age/measurements lying. But I don’t think I can stomach a totally different set of eyes!

6. For high-ranking popular girls, maybe better to aim for earlier in their shift. Hard to expect good service when they're tired from a whole days work.

Some questions if I may:
(i) Is it taboo to talk about other establishments in front of the girl? Ryou seemed a bit hesitant when I mentioned about my Dolce rejection.

(ii) Is it taboo to talk about general fuuzoku industry stuff (like fuuzoku girls career life/path) to our dates?

(iii) Is there a set rule on who gets CBJ and who gets BBBJ, or who gets DFK and who gets only LK? Should or can I be more demanding in the room?

(iv) How do frontmen/tenchos decide who gets a card or not from the establishment for easier future reservations?

(v) Now that I have tasted FS, I wonder if I’ll ever be able to consider fuuzoku without FS. Ignoring the difference in FS availability and price rates, can delivery health services turn out better than soaplands?

(vi) Any tricks or ideas to identify that a girl’s eyes have been photoshopped?

(vii) Which Yoshiwara soaplands are considered the 高級 high-end establishments? Maybe three or more that are foreigner-friendly, and three or more in general.

(viii) I’ve read news that Haute Coutre was raided and closed due to them advertising AV actresses as some of their girls on their website. Any idea why Landmark and Last Scene still continue to do so on their websites?

Thank you for reading.

 

[Soapysoap66]

Hi, I'll try and answer as many of your questions as I can.

For 1 and 2, and this is something I've thought about adding to my resource page, while I wouldn't say it's taboo per se, I would say it's rude and don't do it.
1 is equivalent to talking about another woman or competitor shop, you should be concentrating on her.
2 is extremely inappropriate and you will not likely be getting an honest answer. What is it you want to hear? Nothing good can come from this.

3. Depends on girl mostly. You can ask but what she says goes. Always.
4. No idea, try to get the girls' card instead.
5. Without having tried DH, I would say yes it could be better, it just depends on the girl and the chemistry, how skilled she is, how much she likes it etc.
6. No idea but I don't really care much.
7. In general, the high end is just high price. 65k and up I would consider high class. Price and service rarely have any correlation in my experience.

Satin Doll
Last Scene
Landmark
are examples of foreigner friendly shops. In the first two you will find high class girls, young and very beautiful.
At Landmark the chance of better service is probably higher as they tend to have older women.
You can check my shop list for reference for other shops.

8. The reason they raided was apparently that they were forcing some girls to do AV against their will, as well as shady non profit organizations run by owner.
As you say, other shops advertise AV girls without problems so that reason is utter bullshit. It's been discussed a bit on the forum.
I think it was mainly political, they saw a chance to clean up Yoshiwara a bit and they took it.

 

[iamyuu]

Cheers, Soapy.
1. Noted.
2. Noted.
3. I'll try asking then. I won't learn to read who will say yes when asked until I try asking.
4. I see. Girl's card would be to book the same girl or just to show I've been to the establishment?
5. Yeah, sorry. The answer was quite obvious.
6. I see. I guess I really care about the eyes being photoshopped.
7. Noted. Maybe I'all give those a try before testing others that have not been identified to be foreigner friendly.
8. Noted. Sorry didn't check if it was already discussed.

 

[Soapysoap66]

3. You might try reading their profiles or interviews if they hint at kissing.
4. Just to show. Which I believe is what you were after with the Tencho card? Because I don't really think having a card will do you much difference.
7. Since you speak fluent you can just call any shop you want and check. There is some excitement in trying unexplored territory as well.

 

[Ken1988]

Hi iamyuu, thanks for your great reviews.

I think you can read Japanese, can't you? Providers' forums are a good source to know what soap girls are thinking about their clients. "lovebonita.jp" is one of such forums. Peeping several threads under the forum ("Q&A") may answer some of your questions.

 

[Soapysoap66]

Haha that forum has some nuggets like this one from a thread discussing favorite play for providers:

理想は
風呂入ってきて歯も磨いてきた清潔な客が来店
服脱がしても触らずそのまま風呂
マットしてもいいけど挿入1分以内にイく。
洗ってベッド戻って適当に喋ってドリンク休憩。
前戯とかとくになしで乳首には一切触らず舐めず挿入。1分以内にいく。
いちゃいちゃもせず風呂入って
さっさと服着て適当に喋って帰宅。

これが超理想。

Don't start reading that forum would be my suggestion. Could be pretty damaging to guys with low self esteem.

 

[Ken1988]

Oh, please read them with a pinch of salt. They are making jokes, too. Some were obviously posted by guys disguised as providers.

 

[okayspot]

2 is extremely inappropriate and you will not likely be getting an honest answer. What is it you want to hear? Nothing good can come from this.

Really? I only visit "amateur places" with girls that are supposedly in late teens early 20's, but I find this question nets very interesting open answers(normally it's to pay for tuition/ they want to live alone / money for drinking / credit card bills) and the girls are very honest with me about what they make. I pose it more as a "I'm so interested, is this job difficult / psychologically demanding?" way though.

I can tell they are being honest about money because at the same shop they all basically say about the same thing.

 

[ur19877]

This is the 4th part of four posts in different forum sections:
(1) Pre 1st & 2nd fuuzoku experience - link
(2) Darling Harbour with Ryou-chan - link
(3) Dolce with Momo-chan - link
(4) Post 1st & 2nd fuuzoku experience & Questions - here

Thoughts:
1. Being in Japan for more than 10 years, I’ve never been annoyed by any discrimination of me being a foreigner. The Hybrid Health Massage and initial Dolce rejections was another first, first time being irritated at such discrimination, though I understand somewhat the reasons.

2. In addition to expanding my sexual experience and technique, I’ve also realized that I have a certain sex personality. Not so much S vs. M, but more like I prefer a session where my lady feels good. So, whether she fakes it or not, I think a partner that cums well and shows she enjoys me is probably better for me than a partner that leads or has tremendous technique to make me finish more than twice. Of course, I’d be lucky to have ones who are both.

3. Partly for the above, having good Japanese ability helps ease the pressure on my date.

4. Maybe the above refers to sexual preferences. Knowing myself, being someone who values broad new experience rather than deep experience (for all things in life), I’ll probably be chasing variety, trying different girls, different establishments. But if I want to deep satisfying sex, maybe I need to narrow down more what I want. Of course, my wallet would dictate which establishments I can frequent.

5. I understand now that photoshopped photos is just part of the fuuzoku experience. I don’t mind a bit of body photoshopping or a bit of age/measurements lying. But I don’t think I can stomach a totally different set of eyes!

6. For high-ranking popular girls, maybe better to aim for earlier in their shift. Hard to expect good service when they're tired from a whole days work.

Some questions if I may:
(i) Is it taboo to talk about other establishments in front of the girl? Ryou seemed a bit hesitant when I mentioned about my Dolce rejection.

(ii) Is it taboo to talk about general fuuzoku industry stuff (like fuuzoku girls career life/path) to our dates?

(iii) Is there a set rule on who gets CBJ and who gets BBBJ, or who gets DFK and who gets only LK? Should or can I be more demanding in the room?

(iv) How do frontmen/tenchos decide who gets a card or not from the establishment for easier future reservations?

(v) Now that I have tasted FS, I wonder if I’ll ever be able to consider fuuzoku without FS. Ignoring the difference in FS availability and price rates, can delivery health services turn out better than soaplands?

(vi) Any tricks or ideas to identify that a girl’s eyes have been photoshopped?

(vii) Which Yoshiwara soaplands are considered the 高級 high-end establishments? Maybe three or more that are foreigner-friendly, and three or more in general.

(viii) I’ve read news that Haute Coutre was raided and closed due to them advertising AV actresses as some of their girls on their website. Any idea why Landmark and Last Scene still continue to do so on their websites?

Thank you for reading.

Are you a PMP? You are one organized dude and I wish I had clients eight your professional approach. Cheers.

 

[Soapysoap66]

Really? I only visit "amateur places" with girls that are supposedly in late teens early 20's, but I find this question nets very interesting open answers(normally it's to pay for tuition/ they want to live alone / money for drinking / credit card bills) and the girls are very honest with me about what they make. I pose it more as a "I'm so interested, is this job difficult / psychologically demanding?" way though.

I can tell they are being honest about money because at the same shop they all basically say about the same thing.

If they all answer the same why ask? They could be feeding you a scripted answer provided by the shop to avoid these type of insensitive questions.
I'm sorry if I'm sounding hostile towards you but that is none of your business. I can't force you to not ask but I implore you to explore other options of conversation.
I also think that the girls will like you better if you avoid this topic.

 

[Soapysoap66]

You can read this thread to see what some of the girls think about the question "So why you working here?"
http://lovebonita.jp/lesson/contribute_post_form.php?no=266415

 

[okayspot]

If they all answer the same why ask? They could be feeding you a scripted answer provided by the shop to avoid these type of insensitive questions.
I'm sorry if I'm sounding hostile towards you but that is none of your business. I can't force you to not ask but I implore you to explore other options of conversation.
I also think that the girls will like you better if you avoid this topic.

Soapland and amateur shops based mainly on conversation are a bit different.

I see on the thread someone wrote you should respond to them with a "why do you come to soap/ what made you get into soap".
I`ve had girls respond to my question like this in a playful manner and I love that personality.

I have a feeling the experience you and are I looking for are different.
I enjoy Sexy Kyaba conversation because It is a place where I don`t have to have any worries about social constraints and can say just about anything.

 

[Ken1988]

Ah, well, I hinted the providers’ forum, expecting the OP to be able to extract some information on the business model of soaplands and to strategize his act to have more fun and satisfaction. For the application of an ex-ante appraisal and an ex-post evaluation in his review, I thought the OP was quite knowledgeable in business models in addition to his advanced Japanese proficiency. The providers’ forum gives some clues to know how the business is operated. With these clues and a standard interpretation of related laws (Penal Code (Kei Hou), Anti-Prostitution Law (Baishun Bo-shi, Hou), Entertainment Business Law (Fuu Ei Hou)), I come up something as follows.

Even though Wikipedia concludes the prostitution in Japan is illegal, it is very different from the US (or Sweden, Canada, France). Japanese laws do not punish consensual sex, even if money changes hands, unless minors are involved (then even with consent/without money, its felony). The Anti-Prostitution Law in Japanese 売春防止法literally means “The law to prevent people from selling sex.“ Buying sex is also “baishun,” but 買春. This Anti-Prostitution Law stipulates sex trade is illegal (Article 3). However, there are no penalty provisions for the buyers. Meanwhile, the Anti-Prostitution Law stipulates the penalties to the proprietors who run prostitution business (Article 6 to 16). Selling sex is illegal (Article 3 and 5), and Article 5 is the penalty provisions for providers who advertise sex trades “in front of public eyes.” Article 5 mainly aims at preventing street prostitution, and I don’t think it applies to providers these days. The court is also sympathetic to providers, and the police know it. Thus, both providers and clients are legally safe as long as their sexual acts are consensual. As a soap client, you are not arrested, prosecuted, or humiliated like Johns in the States. There are occasional raids on soaplands, but the police are after proprietors, not clients nor providers. When the shop is busted while you are there, you may be interviewed by the police as a witness, but not as a criminal. They will release you after the interview, saying “thank you for your cooperation.”

Running a sopaland is a lucrative but risky business. For it to be legal, a proprietor must prove, even as a mere formality, that his/her soapland is not a place primarily for FS. This is why an antiquated steamer is usually there in the room. Also, clients often notice that the room is not locked, and the room door has a window masked by a towel. A soap proprietor cannot advertise what sorts of play are available. This may sound weird as the ad of a delivery health usually, comes with a full list of available plays. In the same logic, some shops advertise only the entrance fee and don’t advertise the full amount that costs you for a session. The “service fee,” usually the twice of the entrance fee (there seems to be a cap on this at Yen 50,000), goes to the girl. Usually, you pay the service fee in addition to the entrance fee to the shop, but the entrance/service fees breakdown means something, and it indicates the distribution between the proprietor and the girl. The providers’ forum confirms this sharing format, and I like the fact that the girls’ share is reasonably more than the proprietors’.

Another thing the shops cannot do is to force their girls to do more than the job of an attendant for the client’s special bathing experience. Anything more specific is supposed to be determined by mutual consent between the girl and the client. The girls are not employees of a soapland, but more like individual contractors. The girls are paid by cash at the end of their shifts (because the “service fees” are supposed to be paid by the clients to the girls directly – the shop collects them on the girls’ behalf). The contract is not binding because the shop doesn’t take any collateral to enforce the contract. Rather, if the shop tries to “enforce” anything to their girls, it can be construed as the violation of the Anti-Prostitution Law. Even under this constraint, however, the shop must maximize the profits (it’s business!). Retaining popular girls seems to be considered the best profit-maximizing strategy in the industry. The interest of the girls and the shop coincide at this point. The most credible sign of popularity is the number of repeating clients (the ranking). The shop pays “nomination bonuses” to the girls who are nominated by advance bookings, and having repeating regulars is the key to the financial stability for the girls. Thus, the girls want their clients to be repeating regulars. The shop also wants their clients to be repeating regulars, but more to a particular girl than to the shop because supporting/retaining popular girls is an assured profit-maximizing strategy.

My conclusions are: 1) even if you are a traveler just has spent a few hours in Tokyo, you should tell the girls and the tencho/clerks, if possible, that you’ve been living in Tokyo for a few years and that you are willing to repeat visiting the girl/the shop; 2) the shop supports popular girls, and it doesn’t have much incentive to match unpopular girls to the clients – the shop’s advice is worth taking note; 3) you need to please the girl to open up for you if you require specific plays – it may happen instantly, or it may require several visits. The shop will not force the girl to do anything specific, and you cannot force the girl, either, as soapland plays are only legal as far as they are consensual.

 

[iamyuu]

Wow, Ken, thank you for the great insight, taking the time to write all that. Hadn’t had time yet to read through the providers’ forum. So, I appreciate the pointers given.

Sorry if my question on whether to it is taboo to talk about general fuuzoku industry stuff with our date was a bit misleading. Part of the reason for asking is curiosity, of course, as it was my first fuuzoku experience. I also find the business aspect (proprietors running a business, providers providing a paid service) vs. personal aspect (providers meeting a physical and psychological need for a stranger, and possibly for herself as well) of fuuzoku fascinating. But at the end of the day, as Soapy said, I should ask myself what exactly do I want to achieve ultimately?

The answer to that (at least to me) is to have a great and satisfying fuuzoku experience while getting my money’s worth. After my first two fuuzoku experiences, I’ve come to realize that what constitutes a great and satisfying experience itself is evolving and something I’m continuing to learn about myself. GFE vs. PSE? Slender vs. Dynamite body? Big boobs vs. small boobs? Kissing vs. Touching vs. Licking? Companionship/chatting vs. Sex? And as with all things with life, you don’t always get everything that you want. So, we prioritize, have preferences, and these preferences change.

After deciding what we want (for that day/session at least), we then turn to the question of how do we get what we want. As mentioned, soapland plays must be consensual, thus we must learn how to please the lady and get her to open up. However, I can imagine that some patrons unfortunately come in with an attitude that the paying customer is king in Japan, thus may be demanding, forceful and in some cases rough on the girls. It’s one thing trying to take the lead/control of the session. It’s quite another to force a girl to do something she does not want.

How do we get a lady to open up? The obvious answer is that it depends on the lady. Some girls respond to gifts. Skilled guys may rely on their sex techniques. In general though, we must learn how to converse, chat up the lady. For some, the conversation may be a big part of what they want (companionship). For others, it is to make the lady feel at ease, maybe feel intimate even. A lot of guys probably think that talking about personal matters will bring them closer to the ladies. Does it work? I speculate that if you’re looking for GFE and keep topics outside of fuuzoku (e.g., no “why and how did you come to do fuuzoku?” questions), maybe it works on most ladies. Anyhow, this is not my forte. Probably those good at chatting up ladies can give offer their tips.

I guess that I’m the “yasashii”, nice-guy type, which I’m guessing providers in general appreciate. However, you can argue that it may get a bit boring for the lady, may be mistaken for a lack of sexual lust, and may not work if I'm looking for PSE.

As Ken mentioned, getting what I want “may happen instantly, or it may require several visits”.