Telemarketing Reminds Me Of...

[Wwanderer]

I pretty strongly disagree to any analogy involving "sales" since I view romance as non-transactional (which I understand puts me somewhat at odds with some sections of this board). Therefore, while cold approach is unsolicited, it is not "selling" anything, nor trying to "get" anything in specific, but a testing of affinity, an invitation to dance and see where things go. Romance, IMO is not an exchange at all, and therefore, philosophically it is entire separate from and unlike your example of telemarketing, while the superficial aspects (the unsolicited nature) may appear similar.

I agree that the commercial/transactional nature/purpose of most telemarketing calls is quite different from the purpose of cold PUA and that this is a significant gap or flaw in the analogy. However, I never intended or thought that the analogy is "complete", as you called it above.

Rather it is the annoying and arguably inappropriate intrusions on people's time and privacy that I see as rather closely analogous. In your post that I was reading when I got the two telemarketing calls I describe in the OP, you repeatedly said "she'll let you know", and I was struck by the fact that I had no problem letting those annoying callers know that I didn't want to talk to them but that it did nothing to solve the problem for me.

In other words and to make my point/analogy extremely explicit, when you cold approach a woman in a public place who is not interested in talking to you and she lets you know it (and you hopefully back off and quickly leave her alone), it does not mean that you haven't bothered her and that all is fine and dandy. You have still interrupted and distracted her for a few moments (maybe more), and it can still be a big hassle for her if she gets such approaches frequently enough. That is the point of the analogy. If it is imperfect (incomplete?) in other respects, it doesn't change the way in which it is so accurate.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

The PUA hate train was a few months back, looks like you missed it...

Fwiiw, my intention in starting this thread was NOT to initiate a new battle in the PUA Wars or to go over old ground/arguments/points (yet) again, and I *intend* to avoid such repetition myself. Even I am tired of those exchanges. However, I could not resist reporting the very strong (imo) analogy between telemarketing and cold PUA that suddenly popped into my head when I received those calls while reading @Sinapse 's post. That, at least for me, was a new perspective/comparison and seemed worth mentioning.

If others want another round of PUA battles, it is fine with me but perhaps not so much with the mods.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

spoken like someone who has never tried it!

Fwiiw, this oft repeated response by you and other PUAs on TAG seems rather weak to me. You seem to be saying that you have to try something in order to have an opinion of it. This is obviously not true for many/most activities. I have never tried doing telemarketing myself or robbing banks for that matter, but I can still have valid insights and opinions about both. Telemarketers and bank robbers probably know more than I do about their pursuits, but that does not mean that I know nothing at all.

(To be clear, I am NOT saying that cold PUA is anything at all like robbing banks; it is just a vivid example for the point I'm making.)

-Ww

 

[Sinapse]

Fwiiw, this oft repeated response by you and other PUAs on TAG seems rather weak to me. You seem to be saying that you have to try something in order to have an opinion of it. This is obviously not true for many/most activities. I have never tried doing telemarketing myself or robbing banks for that matter, but I can still have valid insights and opinions about both. Telemarketers and bank robbers probably know more than I do about their pursuits, but that does not mean that I know nothing at all.

(To be clear, I am NOT saying that cold PUA is anything at all like robbing banks; it is just a vivid example for the point I'm making.)

-Ww

I agree that certain things are pretty understandable without trying something. For other things, however, you betray your own lack of experience by the way you speak of something. If, for example I said "bank robberies are stealing and stealing is bad" that's something that could be said as an outside observer with no experience. However, if I said "when you rob a bank you're never going to actually get any money!"
Or "if you rob a bank, you're guaranteed to get only ancient Roman denarii coins"
These remarks would be quite silly, based on nothing but pure speculation, and betray my own ignorance of the realities of robbing banks. A bank robber, were he present, could quickly disprove your speculation as false due to his first hand experience.

Similarly, I know nothing about professional tennis, and if I went on a forum for pro tennis players and started trying to pretend I knew about the first hand experience of playing tennis at a high level I think it would become apparent I didn't really know what I was talking about quite quickly.

In other words, the assertion that PUA only works on weak willed women really says more about what the poster WANTS to believe than what is actually the reality of pickup. If anyone wants to know what kind of girls are susceptible to pickup, they should ask someone well actually picks girls up - or the girls themselves if they can find some!

I'd also like to add that many female members of this board have mentioned they have been picked up before in the past. The implication then is that they are weak willed or foolish to go along with such a clearly scammy ruse. I don't believe they are either- they generally have quite sharp minds IMO

In fact, the places I pick up are some of the most saturated places in the entire world full of touts, scouts, and nampa boys. You can't "trick" a popular, attractive girl there. They know exactly what you are doing, and they enjoy it. There is no deception, just two people dancing together and both going for what they want

 

[Wwanderer]

I agree that certain things are pretty understandable without trying something. For other things, however, you betray your own lack of experience by the way you speak of something.

I agree, and some comments on PUA may suffer from the lack of experience on the part of the person making the comment, but others not so much. Personally, my views on cold PUA are informed primarily by what I have been told by women who have experienced cold PUA attempts with varied results and secondarily by what I have read on TAG and a few other sites.

In other words, the assertion that PUA only works on weak willed women really says more about what the poster WANTS to believe than what is actually the reality of pickup.

Just to be clear, it was @DeepStick2020 who made the remarks about weak minded/willed women, not me...nor do I agree with him in that regard. I didn't even "like" that post of his.

Rather my comment is directed at the often repeated general defense of PUA that people who haven't tried it don't know enough to criticize it. This has come up in innumerable PUA War threads. So, I was just sayin' that it is generally not a strong point imo.

Edit: Just moments after making this post, my phone rang. It was a cold call from an anti-abortion group (or someone pretending to be that) asking for a donation to help save... <sigh>

-Ww

 

[meiji]

I, for one, am so VERY glad that people decided to poke at the PUA forum again. It's like whacking a beehive with a stick.

(Sarcasm)

 

[Wwanderer]

I, for one, am so VERY glad that people decided to poke at the PUA forum again. It's like whacking a beehive with a stick.

(Sarcasm)

And who doesn't love doing that!

No harm in locking it now as far as I am concerned. It is unlikely that any further new comments or ideas will emerge.

-Ww

 

[meiji]

Done and done.