The Merits Of Whether Or Not Someone Is Ts/tg/ladyboy...

Ches

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Definitely a post op . Nothing wrong with that, but they should be more open about it.
I agree. I know filipina women and filipina post op features quite well. Also, coming from a catholic country with strong family ties, discrimination and gossips are rampant, where you neighbors knows more about you more than yourself, I don't think a real woman would post here photos just like that.

Philippines is becoming more like thailand now with most beautiful lady boys. I know transgender in phil that looks more beautiful than real women. And you would never mistake her for a ladyboy unless she admits.

But hey, if the OP had a great time, then that's cool!
 
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I agree. I know filipina women and filipina post op features quite well. Also, coming from a catholic country with strong family ties, discrimination and gossips are rampant, where you neighbors knows more about you more than yourself, I don't think a real woman would post here photos just like that.

Philippines is becoming more like thailand now with most beautiful lady boys. I know transgender in phil that looks more beautiful than real women. And you would never mistake her for a ladyboy unless she admits.

But hey, if the OP had a great time, then that's cool!

OMG, please help an old man out. Most of you who have read my posts can tell that I am pretty open-minded and rather liberal in my outlook.

I value people as people and have counted gay men and lesbian women as dear friends.

However, I love women when it comes to intimacy and shudder at the thought of being intimate with someone who was not born a woman.

So many posters on TAG have raved about experiences with people they described as women and were later informed that the person was actually a lady boy.

So, please forgive my ignorance. Please tell me. How can a person be sure it's really a natural-born woman?
 
I'm also curious to know the answers to roots raggea post. How do we know a she was a he by looking at the pictures
Thanks
 
OMG, please help an old man out. Most of you who have read my posts can tell that I am pretty open-minded and rather liberal in my outlook.

I value people as people and have counted gay men and lesbian women as dear friends.

However, I love women when it comes to intimacy and shudder at the thought of being intimate with someone who was not born a woman.

So many posters on TAG have raved about experiences with people they described as women and were later informed that the person was actually a lady boy.

So, please forgive my ignorance. Please tell me. How can a person be sure it's really a natural-born woman?
I'm also curious to know the answers to roots raggea post. How do we know a she was a he by looking at the pictures
Thanks

Since high school I have worked as a model and when I entered university I did beauty pageants for five years, hoping from states to states with lots of my different gay glam team. When you happen to be around the circle and company of gay people, you kinda pick up on the vibe. I've been with them for too long that I have established a gaydar, I think.

For starters, it is about movements. There are certain angles and movements that gay people do, like the flick of the hand and the hair.

Second, when you suspect the pretty girl is gay, but not sure, observe her. Pretty trans tend to be obssessed with themselves and when they sit, they keep on looking around for people who are possibly checking them out. When the suspected trans cannot keep still, and head keep on moving looking around, gaydar alert.

Third, this is very obvious. Adam's apple and voice. A gay's voice will always "forced pitched" like a deep voice desperately turning into high pitched woman's squeal.

Fourth, look at the hand and feet. Men will generally have bigger hands and feet compared to women. Trans cannot have an operation to reduce the size of hands and feet.

Fifth, post op trans generally has lots and lots of cosmetic surgeries, most common are, hip implant, boob implant, rhinoplasty (to make the nose looking more girly or not manly), I also heard about chin implants. Generally if the suspected trans has sooo many obvious operations, then that's a red flag.

Sixth, make up. Trans looooove make up, probably more than girls. If the suspected trans came in a really really thick make up with perfect contour, then it could be a sign. But then again, remember that some girls love make up too, like myself, so it doesn't automatically equate that if the girl has tons of make up then she is trans, it is just one of the signs. I have a trans friend who put make up on her entire body. She uses cake foundation to make her legs smooth and flawless. I only noticed it coz we were swimming lol, and while at pool, she was retouching her leg foundation.

Seventh, mind the wetness. Gay people cannot produce their own lubrication as far as I know. They probably use personal lubricants. Hence, if the wetness is wearing off in second round during intercourse, it could be either, you are not getting the girl aroused enough to produce lubrication (which is generally rare in my opinion, coz it naturally come with intercourse or she really just can't produce her own). She may excuse herself to the bathroom before the next round to use lube sticks. The kind of lube inserted inside.

Eight, most trans will allow backdoor entrance aka AF, coz that was their hole pre op. Again, this just doesnt apply to trans, some women enjoy AF too, but generally trans will be more open to this.

Lastly, avoid scummy places like BP, just go with well reviewed girl or well reviewed agency, if you don't wanna worry about this.

I am by no means expert on this field, but I have just stipulated my observations based on the gay people I've been around with.
 
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It's so sad that people who were born in the wrong body will be forced to tell this their whole life, even if they fully transition.

Not very "one love" at all.


Why speculate on what someone once was if they clearly look female now.
Your partner was once a child, does that mean you shouldn't touch them because you wouldn't touch a child?
 
It's so sad that people who were born in the wrong body will be forced to tell this their whole life, even if they fully transition.

Not very "one love" at all.


Why speculate on what someone once was if they clearly look female now.
Your partner was once a child, does that mean you shouldn't touch them because you wouldn't touch a child?
This is very true and very kind statement.

However, the welfare and peace of mind of the paying customer must also be upheld, in my opinion.

For example, the customer is buying a bag. Clearly written on the bag is made in paris, but in reality, the bag is made in china. Wouldn't it be unfair for the buying customer not to know the full specification of the product? Considering that they are spending a considerable amount of money for it?

Also, some men are very very straight to the point that they feel grossed out by the idea of being with a very beautiful girl who turned out to be was once a man. It is their preferrence and their choice, not to accept a trans as equal to a woman.

Though, trans have emotions and looks and body of a woman already, i believe that p4p is not a ground for them to fight for their right to be treated as equivalent to a woman. The preferrence and the welfare of the paying customer must be upheld at all times. How he sees is more important than how the trans sees herself.

After, honesty is the best policy and I am sure trans will have their fair share of market in the P4P scene.

This post is by no means against trans/gay people. I love them hence, 90% of my friends are either bi/trans/queer. But I do understand the sentiments of men like @roots reggae about the issue. This is not a matter of discrimination in my opinion.
 
I've split this off - we're not going to dirty up a review where none of you have proof of someone's life story and what they really are or aren't.

Thank you for your good sense in making this a completely separate thread. I've said it before, we are, indeed fortunate in having moderators with wisdom and patience!
 
It's so sad that people who were born in the wrong body will be forced to tell this their whole life, even if they fully transition.

Not very "one love" at all.


Why speculate on what someone once was if they clearly look female now.
Your partner was once a child, does that mean you shouldn't touch them because you wouldn't touch a child?

Ms. Alice,

I really respect your point of view and thank you for challenging mine. TAG is a place we are fortunate to consider other's opinions and express our own. We do not have to agree with each other to maintain a positive sense of community. I may disagree with you on some matters, however that does not prevent my admiration for the considerable amount of similar values we share.

That said, I find nothing counter to my basic "one love" philosophy in expecting honesty in intimacy.

I can love someone as a person and not as an intimate partner. Your child comparison is not a fair one. A child does not have the basic ability to give consent to sexual relations and that's what makes it wrong. We are discussing adults and preferences.

I would never expect intimacy with a lesbian, no matter how attractive she may be. It's a matter of respecting each other's preferences.
Sex is a matter of mutual choice and that means full disclosure if a choice truly to be made.

I make no judgement in regards to anyone's personal choice of sexual love.

When it comes to friendships and basic human respect, it is my philosophy to love all genders, cultures, and races.

To me, that's the meaning of "one love."
 
Ms. Alice,

I really respect your point of view and thank you for challenging mine. TAG is a place we are fortunate to consider other's opinions and express our own. We do not have to agree with each other to maintain a positive sense of community. I may disagree with you on some matters, however that does not prevent my admiration for the considerable amount of similar values we share.

That said, I find nothing counter to my basic "one love" philosophy in expecting honesty in intimacy.

I can love someone as a person and not as an intimate partner. Your child comparison is not a fair one. A child does not have the basic ability to give consent to sexual relations and that's what makes it wrong. We are discussing adults and preferences.

I would never expect intimacy with a lesbian, no matter how attractive she may be. It's a matter of respecting each other's preferences.
Sex is a matter of mutual choice and that means full disclosure if a choice truly to be made.

I make no judgement in regards to anyone's personal choice of sexual love.

When it comes to friendships and basic human respect, it is my philosophy to love all genders, cultures, and races.

To me, that's the meaning of "one love."
Those people are not lying though. They say "i'm a woman" because they feel they are a woman, not to trick you into bed.

Are you gay for making out with someone who is more feminine than some natural born women, who choose not to reveal you one of their biggest past struggles when you just met?

It's quite shallow to judge someone only on the way they are born.

These people are not men. Period.
This i wanna make clear, separated from the question if they should reveal to their future sex partners with which set of genitals they were born.
Because if that is such a matter for many guys then it's a good idea.

You get exactly what you see, but still you wanna know if their body has ever looked different before? Personally i don't see it but because it's such a big matter to guys, transitioned sex workers probably should reveal it.

And for recognizing; just because someone had had some work done doesn't make them transgender, so many people have, but yea, just look at which places they have surgeries and injections and compare their looks to known examples of transitioned Asians and you should get somewhere in recognizing them.
 
Those people are not lying though. They say "i'm a woman" because they feel they are a woman, not to trick you into bed.

Are you gay for making out with someone who is more feminine than some natural born women, who choose not to reveal you one of their biggest past struggles when you just met?

It's quite shallow to judge someone only on the way they are born.

These people are not men. Period.
This i wanna make clear, separated from the question if they should reveal to their future sex partners with which set of genitals they were born.
Because if that is such a matter for many guys then it's a good idea.

You get exactly what you see, but still you wanna know if their body has ever looked different before? Personally i don't see it but because it's such a big matter to guys, transitioned sex workers probably should reveal it.

And for recognizing; just because someone had had some work done doesn't make them transgender, so many people have, but yea, just look at which places they have surgeries and injections and compare their looks to known examples of transitioned Asians and you should get somewhere in recognizing them.

Dear Alice,

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this topic. I truly admire your beliefs and perspective on this issue and your dedication to those values. Those values are one reason I hold you in high regard.

Still, I disagree with you and realize that this is one situation where neither one of us is going to change our view. That does not make either one of us bad or wrong. It's just the way we are. As long as people do no harm to each other, it's up to each individual to act according to one's own personal values.
 
One of my very good friends is transgender although I don't like that term because she is a woman and I would like to see and refer to her as such.
As Alice said, if they are a women and fell like that, getting the adjustment operation done etc. it is very rude to call them out on it.
Many transgender have it extremely hard and suffer from depression as well because society is not accepting them as they are or feel.
 
Not very "one love" at all.

Alice I hate to be the one to break this to you but that one song doesn't define reggae. In actual fact Jamaican culture is extremely unfriendly to any of the "queer" spectrum. I won't get into the politics of what letters go in there. I've spent enough time in my life around Jamaicans, rastas and reggae musicians to very confidently say that.

In any case, what *anyone* wants sexually, especially in a P4P context is often beyond logic. When I go to a fashion health, I suppress any thoughts that mouth I just kissed was wrapped around another mans penis 30 minutes ago. When I've been in a position where I dated a woman who a good friend of mine had previously dated, I don't think about his dick having been where mine is now. Those are extremely unsexy thoughts for me. This is just how I'm wired.

We all tell ourselves lies about sex, we all have what we want and don't want.
 
However, I love women when it comes to intimacy and shudder at the thought of being intimate with someone who was not born a woman.

You need not worry, my friend, trans-women were not men when they were born, although they may have had some or all of the body parts associated with maleness. They are and were always women. Gender (identity) is not a matter of the flesh but of the soul (or mind or personality or heart or spirit or atman or...as you prefer).

To see this, consider - Is a ciswoman more female if she has implants or other cosmetic surgery to enhance her feminine features? Is she less of a woman if she has a radical mastectomy or hysterectomy? Is she less of a woman after age takes away the functionality of her reproductive organs and her feminine features? If a ciswoman develops a hormone imbalance that causes her to grow a heavy facial beard (this happens, btw), is she no longer female or less of a woman?

Further consider that transwomen very often begin to absolutely and unconditionally insist that they are "really" girls starting from a quite early age (toddlerhood or barely out of it, pretty much at the same time that they are learning to identify and place themselves in relation to society and other people) very often despite extremely strong contradiction by and pressure from everyone around them, including especially their parents and siblings. They know their gender with dead certainty by introspection, and no external authority can tell them otherwise. It appears to be a part of their very awareness of self.

Basically transwomen are simply women who were born with a set of severe birth defects which, in modern times, can be treated medically...not so different from, say, a cleft lip and/or palate. Would you regard someone who had a cleft palate surgically corrected as still deformed because that is the way they were born?

-Ww
 
@User#8628 and @Anna Summer , I was about to quote your posts above extensively, but then realized that I have nothing to say about them except that I completely agree with nearly every word of it. So let me just say, bravo!

I have to agree with @TheScientist that the Jamaican/reggae world often fails to live up to its "one love" ideals in much the same way that, for example, Christians often/usually fail to live up to the ideals of their faith or the US fails to live up to ideals such as "all men created equal" or "equal protection under the law" etc. This, however, does not invalidate those ideals or make them less important/valuable.

-Ww
 
You need not worry, my friend, trans-women were not men when they were born, although they may have had some or all of the body parts associated with maleness. They are and were always women. Gender (identity) is not a matter of the flesh but of the soul (or mind or personality or heart or spirit or atman or...as you prefer).

To see this, consider - Is a ciswoman more female if she has implants or other cosmetic surgery to enhance her feminine features? Is she less of a woman if she has a radical mastectomy or hysterectomy? Is she less of a woman after age takes away the functionality of her reproductive organs and her feminine features? If a ciswoman develops a hormone imbalance that causes her to grow a heavy facial beard (this happens, btw), is she no longer female or less of a woman?

Further consider that transwomen very often begin to absolutely and unconditionally insist that they are "really" girls starting from a quite early age (toddlerhood or barely out of it, pretty much at the same time that they are learning to identify and place themselves in relation to society and other people) very often despite extremely strong contradiction by and pressure from everyone around them, including especially their parents and siblings. They know their gender with dead certainty by introspection, and no external authority can tell them otherwise. It appears to be a part of their very awareness of self.

Basically transwomen are simply women who were born with a set of severe birth defects which, in modern times, can be treated medically...not so different from, say, a cleft lip and/or palate. Would you regard someone who had a cleft palate surgically corrected as still deformed because that is the way they were born?

-Ww
This is true and not a matter of opinion. (But rather of ignorant, old fashioned believes.)
Trans people are not liars or con artists, or people who wanna swap gender for fun because they see more benefits in it.
It's a real medical condition.
 
In my humble opinion, claiming a different sex is a difficult topic for most people to understand or accept, as the scientific community defines sex as a physical attribute, and gender as a social behavior, activities, and attributes. In a somewhat "birth assigned" comparison, I do not claim to be Japanese just because I identify with Japanese culture or act Japanese. A black man claiming to be white would be met with the same opposition. Legally claiming to have "black hair" or "blue eyes" on any legal documents would be considered fraud if I was coloring my hair and wearing contacts. Or in a extreme example claiming to be AIDS free even though the person was never born with AIDS but received it later in life. (Please note I have opinions against people that discriminate against people with aids, and am in NO way trying to claim that GD is in any way a virus or disease of similarity) Regardless of the choice that someone has made in their personal identity, I feel the other party is fully justified if they may or may not want to have a relationship with a person with colored hair and contacts, a person who doesn't identify with their own nationality, or as such someone who is Japanese but looks like a foreigner. Same goes for someone who has been physically altered to conform to their personality or spirit.

As such, I find it dangerous path (in sense of depression, and lack of knowledge from other people) for TG people to try to force their way into a pre-defined gender or sex. Again in my most humble opinion, I would rather see TG men and women be proud to be strong TG women or men and fit into a 3rd, or 4th gender. In evolution, there are 3 or more sexes and genders (some transition naturally in their environment and situation). Maybe in our generation we will finally see an evolutionary change in sexes. In creationism there are 2 sexes. Why are TG trying to sit in a gender and sex based on creationism? If they believed in creationism, wouldn't they try to assimilate to that standard? As some men I know are not attracted to other men, but have strong connections with both Women and TG women, it is difficult for me to see TG trying so hard to become something (I feel) they were never meant to be (in an evolution standpoint).
 
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In my humble opinion, claiming a different sex is a difficult topic for most people to understand or accept, as the scientific community defines sex as a physical attribute, and gender as a social behavior, activities, and attributes. In a somewhat "birth assigned" comparison, I do not claim to be Japanese just because I identify with Japanese culture or act Japanese. A black man claiming to be white would be met with the same opposition. Legally claiming to have "black hair" or "blue eyes" on any legal documents would be considered fraud if I was coloring my hair and wearing contacts. Or in a extreme example claiming to be AIDS free even though the person was never born with AIDS but received it later in life. (Please note I have opinions against people that discriminate against people with aids, and am in NO way trying to claim that GD is in any way a virus or disease of similarity) Regardless of the choice that someone has made in their personal identity, I feel the other party is fully justified if they may or may not want to have a relationship with a person with colored hair and contacts, a person who doesn't identify with their own nationality, or as such someone who is Japanese but looks like a foreigner. Same goes for someone who has been physically altered to conform to their personality or spirit.

As such, I find it dangerous path (in sense of depression, and lack of knowledge from other people) for TG people to try to force their way into a pre-defined gender or sex. Again in my most humble opinion, I would rather see TG men and women be proud to be strong TG women or men and fit into a 3rd, or 4th gender. In evolution, there are 3 or more sexes and genders (some transition naturally in their environment and situation). Maybe in our generation we will finally see an evolutionary change in sexes. In creationism there are 2 sexes. Why are TG trying to sit in a gender and sex based on creationism? If they believed in creationism, wouldn't they try to assimilate to that standard? As some men I know are not attracted to other men, but have strong connections with both Women and TG women, it is difficult for me to see TG trying so hard to become something (I feel) they were never meant to be (in an evolution standpoint).
But if they have transitioned they have a vagina so their sex would be female.

Also if i'd live in Japan long term and gain a citizenship i can call myself a Japanese.
 
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This is true and not a matter of opinion. (But rather of ignorant, old fashioned believes.)
Trans people are not liars or con artists, or people who wanna swap gender for fun because they see more benefits in it.
It's a real medical condition.

It is a sort of misunderstanding/confusion by reversal.

Some see post-op trans-women as *actually* being men wearing a really good high-tech disguise that makes them appear to be a women, but it is exactly the opposite. Pre-op trans-women are *actually* women wearing a really good natural disguise that makes them appear to be a man.

How can we tell which view is correct? It is simple. Just ask them.

-Ww
 
No one will win in this thread but sometimes you have to just respect the opinions one may have about what they personally want.
 
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I would rather see TG men and women be proud to be strong TG women or men and fit into a 3rd, or 4th gender.

While I have some sympathy for this perspective, imo it is important to understand and acknowledge that a transperson taking such a stance must accept the HUGE penalties of discrimination and stigmatization that society imposes as well as facing very serious risks of being a victim of violence. The latter is particularly true for TG sex workers; they are assaulted and murdered at truly ghastly rates.

-Ww