Topics for an Indie's blog?

[Frenchy]

Yeah I tried very hard to think of a profession that people don't ask for discounts but had quite a difficult time! I'm sure there are many courageous souls out there that have asked for a discount on just about anything.

interesting article, thanks for posting it

I don’t understand the discount thing either (says the horrible guy who pays his SB 20k per meet , but hey she agreed and never asked for a raise, and is the happiest one I ever had, so go figure...) however if the value is not worth the cost, I have often been vocal about it... ladies can’t have it both ways, sorry (charging a lot and providing as little as possible... I met those types, don’t tell me they don’t exist).

Based on the costs and risks (and preparation/ travel time etc) borne by the escort I understand the rational for 50k+ per hour. I am sorry you met crooks and violent guys, that is NOT ok and sadly escorts are more at risk indeed.

But based on the value perceived by the (normal) client, it can sometimes feel excessive. Especially considering the gap between western/Japanese escorts on one side of the pay bracket and ladies from less fortunate countries on the other side.
Having said that a Thai or Filipino guy could certainly do my job too , better, and for much less, so who am I to raise this argument...

 

[C4ssandra]

I’ve spent a bit over ¥300.000 on full body IPL hair removal, but I love the results. Worth it on the long run. I think I’ve invested about 1 million yen in my appearance excluding hair salon, manicures, skincare and facials! (If I was younger I would spend it something less superficial, like education of course but I already have a degree.. and I’m ready to splurge ) As a result, 2020 Simona looks like the more attractive sister of 2018-19 Simona.

The photoshoot prices you’ve listed are pretty expensive between ¥40k - ¥70k for Japan. It should be wrapped up at around ¥20k I think, but you end up paying extra for the location as well. (An extra 10k for a high end love hotel)

Did you list gym? Maybe I’ve missed that. Personal trainers can be VERY expensive too. Fitness classes are a bit more affordable.

Regarding outfits I am grateful for a couple of generous clients who helped me with my wardrobe makeover and lingerie, and I receive perfumes & lotions regularly.. At least I didn’t have to pay much for those, lol.

My photoshoot cost ¥60,000. It was with a professional photographer at her own studio so maybe that's not so run of the mill? And you're right I forgot about exercise! I'll have to edit it later tonight to include personal trainer and gym membership fees

 

[C4ssandra]

Nobody with half a brain ever asks for a discount from a dentist - they'll make up the loss by using less novocaine.

Not too smart to ask for a discount from a tattoo artist either. They can turn up the speed on the machine and make it hurt a LOT more.

Excellent point; I'll go back and edit it to say dentist. Regardless of novacaine usage, I would never ask for a discount from the person sticking drills into my teeth and needles into my gums

And when I put it that way, it makes it seem even MORE ridiculous to ask for a discount from someone who is going to have your most valued bit of anatomy between their teeth.

 

[C4ssandra]

Interesting Read...
May be wrong, but I presume you pay taxes on your regular income, and pocket the cash from escorting ( I sure would if some one would pay me for sex).
Totally get the stress, danger involved, but if the government is not taking 30-40% of whatever you make, and it's only taking you about 24 hours (6 hours per high end customer). It's a pretty good return if it's a full time job. As you're working full time at another job, I imagine 24 hours a month is a pain in the ass.

People asking for discounts suck. My staff smile nicely and say "sorry but no", but they do give the customer the middle finger under the counter. Childish, but somewhat satisfying.

Even paying taxes on it will still yield a generous income. I do enjoy escorting; if I didn't I would've never even started. It is a very unique opportunity for rapid financial growth if you're careful.

The very definition of high risk high reward.

 

[C4ssandra]

interesting article, thanks for posting it

I don’t understand the discount thing either (says the horrible guy who pays his SB 20k per meet , but hey she agreed and never asked for a raise, and is the happiest one I ever had, so go figure...) however if the value is not worth the cost, I have often been vocal about it... ladies can’t have it both ways, sorry (charging a lot and providing as little as possible... I met those types, don’t tell me they don’t exist).

Based on the costs and risks (and preparation/ travel time etc) borne by the escort I understand the rational for 50k+ per hour. I am sorry you met crooks and violent guys, that is NOT ok and sadly escorts are more at risk indeed.

But based on the value perceived by the (normal) client, it can sometimes feel excessive. Especially considering the gap between western/Japanese escorts on one side of the pay bracket and ladies from less fortunate countries on the other side.
Having said that a Thai or Filipino guy could certainly do my job too , better, and for much less, so who am I to raise this argument...

Certainly; I agree that clients dont really ever see what goes on behind the scenes and how much effort goes into a booking.

Agency girls have a lot of the above expenses for them paid, and they dont need to spend the time and money maintaining their own business hence the reduced cost. Sugar babies often severely under charge and dont realize how much they should be getting paid. So when a guy who's accustomed to agencies and SBs goes to an independent, he will often be shocked at the sudden price jump.

However at the end of the day I think it's not really possible to stick a price tag on a job that risks your life. The best way to even begin to calculate fair compensation for potential trauma is to start high.

I hope that past and potential clients who have read this will understand that.

 

[Simonka]

They can turn up the speed on the machine and make it hurt a LOT more.

I’m afraid escorts can do the same : )

 

[Frenchy]

Certainly; I agree that clients dont really ever see what goes on behind the scenes and how much effort goes into a booking.

Agency girls have a lot of the above expenses for them paid, and they dont need to spend the time and money maintaining their own business hence the reduced cost. Sugar babies often severely under charge and dont realize how much they should be getting paid. So when a guy who's accustomed to agencies and SBs goes to an independent, he will often be shocked at the sudden price jump.

However at the end of the day I think it's not really possible to stick a price tag on a job that risks your life. The best way to even begin to calculate fair compensation for potential trauma is to start high.

I hope that past and potential clients who have read this will understand that.

well, ok, but then you know already what would be the argumentative answers to that: soldiers and firefighters risk their lives too... and why should good clients pay for the bad apples... bla bla bla

At the end of the day you charge those amounts because you can , and because some men are ok to pay them, no need to justify it. And it usually can’t last forever. I was less cynical about this at the beginning , thinking there must be a “moral” price or whatever... it’s a business and like in all businesses there are high-end providers who can charge a premium and if they do a good job, have repeat clients etc then good for everyone involved

 

[Sudsy]

have your most valued bit of anatomy between their teeth

Wait... what now?

 

[Frenchy]

Wait... what now?

View attachment 15759

hannibal lecter missed a great opportunity to be a highly paid male escort

 

[MikeH]

Good article and certainly gives us a better idea what goes on behind the curtains.

But because I am an asshole I would like to offer another point of view on this. If I am seeing it as a service then as a customer I really don't care how much time and effort is done to achieve the results; I just want the results. For example if I would happen to be a consultant based in Tokyo and customer needs some work done in Osaka he doesn't really care how much I spend time and money to get over there; he just wants the job in Osaka be done. Of course in my side I do calculate and add those costs but I cannot justify being more expensive than someone who is based in Osaka and who could do the job as well as me. So my only hope is to be better in the job to justify being more expensive.

Then again if I think something is expensive then it just means I don't have enough money to enjoy that service and I should just earn more or give up the idea of buying it. Similarly I have never bargained the prices a lawyer or a dentist has given me (and though I have been given discounted prices from both professions after being a good customer for long time; as well I have also given discounts to good customers without being asked but I still wouldn't expect to be given discounts from an escort).

Full disclosure: I have bargained prices of escorts but only in places where it is expected like in the Orchard Towers in Singapore where the girls actually think you are a bit dim if you don't even ask.

 

[Frenchy]

Full disclosure: I have bargained prices of escorts but only in places where it is expected like in the Orchard Towers in Singapore where the girls actually think you are a bit dim if you don't even ask.

and sometimes they’re not even girls

 

[MikeH]

and sometimes they’re not even girls

Depends on the floor. And still sometimes those who are not girls ask for more; in the end the prices depend on supply and demand.

 

[Frenchy]

Depends on the floor. And still sometimes those who are not girls ask for more; in the end the prices depend on supply and demand.

Agreed, and of the client’s degree of inebriation

 

[MikeH]

Agreed, and of the client’s degree of inebriation

Increase in inebriation is directly correlating to the demand sector. As long as it reaches the tipping point in which case the client tips over to his back and demand goes to zero.

 

[C4ssandra]

Good article and certainly gives us a better idea what goes on behind the curtains.

But because I am an asshole I would like to offer another point of view on this. If I am seeing it as a service then as a customer I really don't care how much time and effort is done to achieve the results; I just want the results. For example if I would happen to be a consultant based in Tokyo and customer needs some work done in Osaka he doesn't really care how much I spend time and money to get over there; he just wants the job in Osaka be done. Of course in my side I do calculate and add those costs but I cannot justify being more expensive than someone who is based in Osaka and who could do the job as well as me. So my only hope is to be better in the job to justify being more expensive.

Then again if I think something is expensive then it just means I don't have enough money to enjoy that service and I should just earn more or give up the idea of buying it. Similarly I have never bargained the prices a lawyer or a dentist has given me (and though I have been given discounted prices from both professions after being a good customer for long time; as well I have also given discounts to good customers without being asked but I still wouldn't expect to be given discounts from an escort).

Full disclosure: I have bargained prices of escorts but only in places where it is expected like in the Orchard Towers in Singapore where the girls actually think you are a bit dim if you don't even ask.

You don't have to care about the time and effort; the blog post was just an explanation for those who wonder where we come up with our prices/think that we are overcharging.

Regarding agencies...I have a lot of respect for agency providers, but I have heard from many clients that indies do provide a higher level of service. If I saw more than one client a day, I am sure my level of service would also drop. Girls in soap lands and agencies can be seeing anywhere between 2-8 clients in a single day. That is ABSOLUTELY exhausting, so I wouldn't be surprised if their level of engagement, receptiveness etc was much lower than an independent who is only seeing 1-2 clients a week. I have heard that high quantity places are much more wham bam thank you ma'am types of deals, without any of the conversation, emotional connection and flirtation. Also, a lot of non-independent sex workers are there as a last resort. They are survival sex workers. Certainly not all of them, but in Japan I know lot of soaplands employ immigrants who can't really speak Japanese and English and haven't had access to higher education. Their options are incredibly limited. They probably aren't very happy with the turns their lives have taken, so I doubt they'd be a very fun lay. Add on that if you're a gaijin you probably won't have a shared language with these girls either, so any attempts at conversation are going to be a bust.

Compare that with most independents who are college educated (some even with PhDs), well traveled, multilingual and aware of world events...you get a much more interesting and enthusiastic bed partner. Again, I am absolutely not trying to knock non-independent escorts. I could never work in an agency and I imagine it can be even more dangerous depending on the higher ups you answer to. I think the work they do is difficult and should be respected. But my point is simply that due to many combined factors, independents offer a higher level of service to clients that care about more than just an orgasm. A lot of clients I've met prioritize emotional connection and conversational ability above what happens in the bedroom.

And I believe I do provide a high level of service. I am sure that there are people out there that would disagree, but I have a decent amount of positive reviews and regulars. I may not be a crazy pornstar level goddess but I'm good company in more ways than one. Of the few independents from TAG I have met, I have gotten similar impressions. They have all been beautiful, charming, skilled in the bedroom and great fun to be around. So yes, in line with your example of offering a better service, I do believe that myself and the rest of the indies here do so. It's not just an arbitrary increase in price; there is plenty of justification behind it.

 

[C4ssandra]

well, ok, but then you know already what would be the argumentative answers to that: soldiers and firefighters risk their lives too... and why should good clients pay for the bad apples... bla bla bla

At the end of the day you charge those amounts because you can , and because some men are ok to pay them, no need to justify it. And it usually can’t last forever. I was less cynical about this at the beginning , thinking there must be a “moral” price or whatever... it’s a business and like in all businesses there are high-end providers who can charge a premium and if they do a good job, have repeat clients etc then good for everyone involved

Sorry I'm not quite sure what you mean by this comment? Soldiers are compensated quite well where I'm from; joining the army is the best way to get a free education and the cheapest way to earn one's pilot license. A quick google search showed me that firefighters aren't compensated very highly and I definitely think that should change! They perform a dangerous, invaluable service. I'm not claiming that escorts are the only ones who deserve danger pay.

We don't charge that much because we can..it's not like we just spin a wheel and decide on what number we get. We have to calculate cost vs expense, take into account the current market (including supply and demand), evaluate the types of services we provide as well as potential niches and decide on how much money we are willing to risk violence on earning. And clients are not just "paying for bad apples." They are paying for the huge monthly costs I already outlined in detail. I didn't even factor in the danger and emotional cost when I did my calculations so I'm not sure where you got that idea. I agree that there isn't really a moral price and at the end of the day yes it is a just a business with different tiers. Independent escorts are at the top of the market because of the level of service they provide.

 

[MikeH]

but I have heard from many clients that indies do provide a higher level of service.

I would go even further and claim that indies provide a totally different service than agencies do. The agencies concentrate on providing an easy to access and quick service for those guys who look only for the physical side of the transaction.

but in Japan I know lot of soaplands employ immigrants who can't really speak Japanese

I do know only one soapland that had non-Japanese girls in the roster and that place don't exist anymore.

It's not just an arbitrary increase in price; there is plenty of justification behind it.

The fact that there are lot of customers for indies already tells the market believes there is value in the offering. And as said, everyone who says something is too expensive is basically just saying he doesn't have enough money.

 

[C4ssandra]

I would go even further and claim that indies provide a totally different service than agencies do. The agencies concentrate on providing an easy to access and quick service for those guys who look only for the physical side of the transaction.



I do know only one soapland that had non-Japanese girls in the roster and that place don't exist anymore.



The fact that there are lot of customers for indies already tells the market believes there is value in the offering. And as said, everyone who says something is too expensive is basically just saying he doesn't have enough money.

Oh really? I'm glad about the soaplands then. Although I'm sure there are still plenty of Asian girls being brought into Japan to do sex work without realizing it..maybe they're going to massage parlors?

 

[MikeH]

We don't charge that much because we can..

If you don't then you at least should.

Anything else is leaving money on the table; everyone, regardless of profession, should provide as good service as they can and at the same time charge as much of it as they can. That would be a win-win situation.

Because if you charge X but provide value for 2*X than the customer is going to be a happy camper regardless how much is that X.

 

[MikeH]

Oh really? I'm glad about the soaplands then. Although I'm sure there are still plenty of Asian girls being brought into Japan to do sex work without realizing it..maybe they're going to massage parlors?

Yeah, the massage parlours without massage used to be full of girls from SE Asia. Now with covid that has almost stopped though.

But all those whom I have talked to knew very well what they came to Japan to do though. They were already working in the same industry on their own countries and just took a well paid gig in Japan for 2-3 weeks to pay the bills.

 

[Frenchy]

Sorry I'm not quite sure what you mean by this comment? Soldiers are compensated quite well where I'm from; joining the army is the best way to get a free education and the cheapest way to earn one's pilot license. A quick google search showed me that firefighters aren't compensated very highly and I definitely think that should change! They perform a dangerous, invaluable service. I'm not claiming that escorts are the only ones who deserve danger pay.

We don't charge that much because we can..it's not like we just spin a wheel and decide on what number we get. We have to calculate cost vs expense, take into account the current market (including supply and demand), evaluate the types of services we provide as well as potential niches and decide on how much money we are willing to risk violence on earning. And clients are not just "paying for bad apples." They are paying for the huge monthly costs I already outlined in detail. I didn't even factor in the danger and emotional cost when I did my calculations so I'm not sure where you got that idea. I agree that there isn't really a moral price and at the end of the day yes it is a just a business with different tiers. Independent escorts are at the top of the market because of the level of service they provide.

Yes I understand what you mean but the point was that (as Mikey said, and you too ) from the client’s point of view the fact that the job is more risky or requires more costs or more travel time or more emotional weight etc are not what he values. The client values a great time with a great lady, period. And if it’s what you can provide (and obviously you can) and what they are willing to pay then it’s all good.

What I can’t stand is ladies who “justify” their requested prices (and gifts and pretty much anything they can obtain) just by the lifestyle they think they deserve. But it’s an issue mostly with some SBs, as with escorts the deal is clearer time-wise, money-wise and - usually- contents-wise too.

 

[IchigoDave]

... issue mostly with some SBs, as with escorts the deal is clearer time-wise, money-wise and - usually- contents-wise too.

That is one thing I like about escorts; both parties know what to expect.

 

[Simonka]

That is one thing I like about escorts; both parties know what to expect.

 

[Joe2017]

from the client’s point of view the fact that the job is more risky or requires more costs or more travel time or more emotional weight etc are not what he values

Interesting discussion on pricing strategy. Basically, customer pays for the perceived value, not for the cost. Sad but the market economy is that cruel.
I liked the article, it reflects not only the expenses, but also the amount of extra time and effort needed in the preparation –that time is also cost. BTW, I have a friend who is a dentist and clients also ask him for discounts saying: "Wouldn't there be another way to do it cheaper?" Then, he replies: "Always, but not here and I wouldn’t recommend you to go for that." What happens is that he has a huge clientele, and he can decide who is not his client.

 

[MikeH]

Sad but the market economy is that cruel.

Well the alternative system they tried in the Eastern Block wasn't exactly famous for being nice and gentle either.