Uncomfortable Japanese Customs/Culture

[MikeH]

Not spokesman. Just stating the fact that what said is an insult to such people who made that life choice.

I made that life choice. Just stating the fact that I totally failed being insulted a tiniest bit with the statements. Ditto to all the gaijins I think as friends here.

 

[warubuta]

If you set a goal for yourself to learn the language and culture, blend into the society and be treated as a local, then you are an idiot and you came to the wrong fucking place. And if you have been here for awhile and you are still complaining about how you have not been allowed to blend in, how you are called a gaijin or a gaikokujin or whatever, then you are just a miserable complainer and you should leave. Guess what? 90% of the time when a Japanese calls you a gaijin in a hateful way it is because he feels threatened or jealous of you. You speak English, have a bigger dick and can screw his women more easily than he can. Who would ever not want tp be a gaijin in Japan? I for one am loving it!

 

[jhingy567]

Well, you two just made an enemy out of every foreign-born person

Sounds like an exaggeration. But I agree being discriminated against or excluded in a country you've decided to called home can be quite irritating. I'm sure the guys who've been turned away from japanese sex shops simply because of their skin colour (and not language skill) can attest to this. Just a fact life and something we have to accept I guess.

Btw, I've wondered about your avatar. is that a boxer or something?

 

[warubuta]

Sounds like an exaggeration. But I agree being discriminated against or excluded in a country you've decided to called home can be quite irritating. I'm sure the guys who've been turned away from japanese sex shops simply because of their skin colour (and not language skill) can attest this. Just a fact life and something we have to accept I guess.

Btw, I've wondered about your avatar. is that a boxer or something?

you knew that discrimination was going to be part of life here before you decided to make it you permanent home, so being irritated is just useless whinging.

 

[RIDER 00]

I made that life choice. Just stating the fact that I totally failed being insulted a tiniest bit with the statements. Ditto to all the gaijins I think as friends here.

No, I think you know that this is just pointless internet banter. If some guy openly challenged your life choices face to face in real life, I doubt you'd be so nonchalant. The internet makes egocentric and insensitive heroes out of everyone.

 

[patty diaz]

Living in Japan for a long time, like I have, you get used to a lot of things about Japanese culture that other cultures might find strange or even offensive. However, there are still some things that bother me a lot, especially from a common sense/decency point of view.

One that sticks out in my mind since I recently got back from a ski trip to Furano in Hokkaido is the common use of female janitors for men's toilets and even the onsen at hotels. In the Prince Hotel in Furano, I was sitting in the onsen with a bunch of other old men when this lady in her 40s knocks on the door and then comes in to start tidying up the wash area and locker area. She had old men dangling they're junk and flabby asses walking every which way around her and she went about her work trying to do it as fast as she could and get out of there.

The same kind of thing happens in my office when this old lady will come into the men's bathroom at times and start cleaning up even if there are 10 guys there lined up against the wall pissing up a storm or all the stalls are occupied with men letting out a bunch of stinky bio-hazard material.

I don't care if she doesn't mind coming into such an environment or the HR department can't hire a man to take her place because that would be sexist. The question I want to ask is why I have to have some woman I don't know suddenly come in on me when I'm taking a bath or pissing when I didn't give her permission to? If it's a guy, I have to put up with it, but why do I still have to even if it's a girl? I never agreed to being in a uni-sex environment.

Would a male janitor be allowed to do the same thing in the girl's bathroom or a women's onsen? Of course not! Why the double standard?

Also, if you let the inner guy within me speak, couldn't the girl at least be a cute one? I'm guessing that no sane cute girl would ever agree to do such a job and it's only the woman who are at the stage in their lives to be desensitized enough to not care about seeing or smelling such ugly things that take on these tasks.

This kinda brings me back to a topic last year of why I have to share onsen with young girls that are brought in by their fathers, but I digress.

Anyway, if you have any thoughts on this topic or want to share other culture things you find disturbing, please feel free to share!

I don’t know what country your from but this is not just Japan...this is like completely normal from where I’m from and a lot of other countries I’ve been too lol

 

[RIDER 00]

I don’t know what country your from but this is not just Japan...this is like completely normal from where I’m from and a lot of other countries I’ve been too lol

Of course it is. All countries have racists and bigots. What's your point?

TAG is a site mostly about Japan, so I'm talking about Japan.
Just because hatred and injustice is all over the world doesn't mean
we should just shrug it off and ignore it when we see it right in front of us.

 

[patty diaz]

Of course it is. All countries have racists and bigots. What's your point?

TAG is a site mostly about Japan, so I'm talking about Japan.
Just because hatred and injustice is all over the world doesn't mean
we should just shrug it off and ignore it when we see it right in front of us.

I was talking about the old lady cleaner thing...but lol

 

[ShowaJidai]

I like to translate the word "Gaikokujin" as "outlander" since that's a closer meaning of the individual characters. it also gives me an excuse for my outlandish behavior.

 

[Ken1988]

Kids pointing at you shouting “Gaijin Gaijin” : how many times did this happen to you?
Same for the judo remark?
Best judo player is a french black dude by the way, some Japanese may not like it but most Japanese I know dont give a damn and many even admire him.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy_Riner

... but I bet that would actually bother some of the Frogs-haters here

Those two examples are just hypothetical ones to show replacing "gaijin" with "gaikokujin" in those sentences doesn't make any contextual deviation. Gaijin as 外人 could be derogative as much as being annoyed by those kids. They are ignorant that you shouldn't give a damn at, but they are damaging that you cannot overlook. Kids could shout "sugoi gaikokujin!" or "Orlando Bloom!" at you and you would still feel offended as they just sound patronizing. You can be offended by any word that gives rise to a mistaken identity of yours.

 

[MikeH]

If you set a goal for yourself to learn the language and culture, blend into the society and be treated as a local, then you are an idiot and you came to the wrong fucking place.

You mean the world in general? Show me one place where you can show up as a grown ass adult and can expect to be treated as a local as soon as you learn the basics of the language and I show you a bridge I am selling cheaply.

The funny thing is that the guys who complain most about being treated differently are normally the fastest to pull out the gaijin card and do what the fuck they want when something uncomfortable is expected from them.

If you want to complain about a derogatory word how about flyjin? Except I think that was well deserved.

If some guy openly challenged your life choices face to face in real life, I doubt you'd be so nonchalant.

Why would I be offended of someone else's opinions about my life choices? The only time I have ever been questioned about my "love for Japan" I just pointed out to the guy I actually have selected to live here, he just happened to born here by chance. I am old enough to have run out of fucks to give about how other people think about me and my choices.

we should just shrug it off and ignore it when we see it right in front of us.

I agree there is lots of ignorance and racism in Japan. Especially therefore it is not OK to find it in every little thing where it doesn't exist. Choose your fights or otherwise you just end up looking like a whiner and hurting your cause.

 

[warubuta]

You mean the world in general? Show me one place where you can show up as a grown ass adult and can expect to be treated as a local as soon as you learn the basics of the language and I show you a bridge I am selling cheaply.

The funny thing is that the guys who complain most about being treated differently are normally the fastest to pull out the gaijin card and do what the fuck they want when something uncomfortable is expected from them.

If you want to complain about a derogatory word how about flyjin? Except I think that was well deserved.



Why would I be offended of someone else's opinions about my life choices? The only time I have ever been questioned about my "love for Japan" I just pointed out to the guy I actually have selected to live here, he just happened to born here by chance. I am old enough to have run out of fucks to give about how other people think about me and my choices.



I agree there is lots of ignorance and racism in Japan. Especially therefore it is not OK to find it in every little thing where it doesn't exist. Choose your fights or otherwise you just end up looking like a whiner and hurting your cause.

Are we not in agreement? I think we are. Not that I care one way or another. I am in the process of training myself to not give a shit about anything. Especially anything in the Internet.

 

[Durg50]

Well, you two just made an enemy out of every foreign-born person who has decided to make Japan their home and even married a Japanese national. I dare you to say the exact same thing to their faces. Oh, I forgot, this is the internet and we're free of such manly obligations.

Im that, and Id be fine with it

 

[Durg50]

If you want to complain about a derogatory word how about flyjin?

Never heard any japanese person use that word. I only heard it from gaijin that wanted everyone to know that they stayed and were therefore (in their minds) special.

I stayed btw.

 

[MikeH]

Never heard any japanese person use that word. I only heard it from gaijin that wanted everyone to know that they stayed and were therefore (in their minds) special.

Well, in my mind they are special too. Like those kids at school in that different class.

But I've seen it used by Japanese out there in the interwebs. Or at least they pretended to be Japanese. And they used it as a slur.

I stayed btw.

I mean if you can take the heat in August and the bloody cold houses in January why wouldn't you have stayed for that? The risks for getting a heat stroke or freezing to death are way higher.

 

[DocMcStuffins]

Okay, buddy, since it's now New Year's, you asked for an academic lecture.

<Reason 1> The slang is offensive.

Shortening "Gaikoku-jin" (Foreigner) to "Gaijin" may sound hip and cool and not offensive, but the meaning of the entire word changes when you do so. Gaikoku-jin literally means "person from a foreign country," which is accurate when you use it to refer to a foreigner. "Gaijin," however, literally means "outsider," which has a lot of nuances attached to it.

By "outsider," the person using it is implying that foreigners in Japan can never assimilate into Japanese society and will always be outsiders no matter how hard they try to fit in. Many foreigners in Japan can speak fluent Japanese and/or have learned proper Japanese customers/etiquette. Despite this, by referring to such people as "gaijin," it's the same as saying that your langue skills or actions do not matter, you will always be an outsider due to your race, appearance, citizenship, etc.

This is racist, xenophobic, and just plain rude and offensive. So much so that I have had Japanese people use it in front of me and then apologize for it by saying that they weren't using it to refer to me, because I am "more Japanese" than most Japanese people are in their minds. Because they know me personally, they can't use it without some feeling of guilt.

You may not get this because maybe you never thought about what the word means or have never considered the situation of foreigners besides yourself and your circle of mates, but many people in the past and present are offended by it. It's a forbidden word on TV and Radio for goodness sake.

<Reason 2> Japanese people often use it as a slur

If you can understand Japanese and the connotation of when people often use it, you'll understand that they are not always using it as a cute, loving pet term. In many cases, they are using it to express their displease/distaste/reproach, etc. towards foreigners. There are two common situations when people use the terms:

1. As a common phrase with no ill malice: This is fine on the surface, but it shows ignorance and disrespect for the implications of using it, which should not be easily forgiven. People should be educated about it and if the circle of people decides to use it with no offense taken, that's just dandy.

2. The person is looking down on foreigners and is expressing their negative views by using this word (related to Reason 1). This is not acceptable because it's the same kind of slur as the N-word and other similar racial or bigoted slurs. You may say that words like the J-word have a different history so it's comparing apples to oranges, but the context or purpose for why they are using it are basically the same -- to put a different group of people down and show disrespect/hated, so please don't you or anyone else bring up that BS argument again.

Again, maybe your Japanese skills prevent you from understanding why many people are actually using this term, but having heard it used up close and personal for over 20 years, I think I know what I am talking about.

In the end, you may say that I'm harping too much on a pointless silly thing, which is fine. I'm just saying that it'd be nice if people stopped using the term so willy-nilly and thought about how it is offensive to many people.

Thanks for the explanation. Anyway, I'm probably more offended by being called buddy than gaijin.

 

[RIDER 00]

Thanks for the explanation. Anyway, I'm probably more offended by being called buddy than gaijin.

Guess you're a loner...Or just someone (like Frenchy and Mike) who always has to get the last word in.

 

[MikeH]

Guess you're a loner...Or just someone (like Frenchy and Mike) who always has to get the last word in.

Okay, buddy, this is racist, xenophobic, and just plain rude and offensive.

You may not get this because maybe you never thought about what the word means or have never considered the situation of Frenchys or Mikes besides yourself and your circle of mates, but many people in the past and present are offended by it. Again, maybe your Japanese skills prevent you from understanding but I think I know what I am talking about. It seems you're either desensitized or have chosen to ignore the pain other people are going through.

Either way, you are contributing to the continued oppression of Frenchys and Mikes in Japan, so congratulations on your proud achievement. I dare you to say the exact same thing to their faces. Oh, I forgot, this is the internet and we're free of such manly obligations. I think you know that this is just pointless internet banter. If some guy openly challenged your life choices face to face in real life, I doubt you'd be so nonchalant. The internet makes egocentric and insensitive heroes out of everyone.

 

[RIDER 00]

Okay, buddy, this is racist, xenophobic, and just plain rude and offensive.

You may not get this because maybe you never thought about what the word means or have never considered the situation of Frenchys or Mikes besides yourself and your circle of mates, but many people in the past and present are offended by it. Again, maybe your Japanese skills prevent you from understanding but I think I know what I am talking about. It seems you're either desensitized or have chosen to ignore the pain other people are going through.

Either way, you are contributing to the continued oppression of Frenchys and Mikes in Japan, so congratulations on your proud achievement. I dare you to say the exact same thing to their faces. Oh, I forgot, this is the internet and we're free of such manly obligations. I think you know that this is just pointless internet banter. If some guy openly challenged your life choices face to face in real life, I doubt you'd be so nonchalant. The internet makes egocentric and insensitive heroes out of everyone.

Sorry, I tried reading that, but it's not even funny in a sarcastic way. Just plain gibberish.

 

[Sudsy]

This thread is a train wreck... all y’all need to go out and get a nice piece of tail and unwind your tensions.

 

[Frenchy]

Sorry, I tried reading that, but it's not even funny in a sarcastic way. Just plain gibberish.

Indeed it is condescending , humorless, self-centered and pontificating gibberish not at all in the usual style of MikeH. I wonder who he tried to imitate here...

 

[Frenchy]

This thread is a train wreck... all y’all need to go out and get a nice piece of tail and unwind your tensions.

Wise advice !

 

[jhingy567]

I'm probably more offended by being called buddy than gaijin.

agreed! i've never been called "buddy" in a non-condescending manner.

just today, i was pulled over by a cop for the first time ever. made my blood boil how he kept calling me 'buddy'. i fantasized about grabbing his gun and shoving it down his throat!!!

 

[Frenchy]

agreed! i've never been called "buddy" in a non-condescending manner.

just today, i was pulled over by a cop for the first time ever. made my blood boil how he kept calling me 'buddy'. i fantasized about grabbing his gun and shoving it down his throat!!!

I actually feel the same, when someone start calling me “buddy”, “pal” etc... I know this is not going to end well . Wouldnt feel offended though, just annoyed.

 

[ShowaJidai]

Back in the day in the Marines we used to say "a buddy is the guy who goes downtown, buys two blow-jobs, then comes back and gives you one."

Ie: it's never used in a good way