NHK subscription - legality question

[Anna Summer]

Don't answer if you can't ID them in the monitor. I've had religious and sales guy press the button and hide away form the camera.
I've also learned that I can have packaged delivered to my local konbini - which saves the trouble of expecting deliveries and I can pick it up when I want.
(I don't have a large delivery box system like the bigger complexes have)

I should do that instead! Why didn’t I think about that earlier...

 

[MikeH]

They should make TV's with the NHK channel blocked - problem solved.

Problem solved for you and one created for NHK; obviously not a good solution.

I do have a vague memory of a friend who brought his TV (to be used as a monitor) from Europe when he moved. That was not capable of receiving NHK signal so he didn't have to pay. Though I think it took some time and effort from his part to make NHK to acknowledge that.

The bill begins.

No; it only begins when a) you sign the contract or b) they take you to court.

AFAIK all the cases where they came to you with back payments are ones where there has been a contract signed but they later stopped paying. If someone has any other stories please prove me wrong by providing source.

How does this apply to apartments who came furnished?

The law says you need to pay as you have means to see their programs.

 

[MossBoss]

Purchase of TV you mean?

I'd pay cash and no names/addresses involved.

Most people would prefer a 55 inch TV to be delivered to their home address rather than carrying it home on the bus though.

 

[MikeH]

Most people would prefer a 55 inch TV to be delivered to their home address rather than carrying it home on the bus though.

So you think Biccamera is just going to let NHK to have access to their customer information like that?

 

[TAG Manager]

Most people would prefer a 55 inch TV to be delivered to their home address rather than carrying it home on the bus though.

Sorry, I thought about that after I posted it... I have a car, so I'd pick it up.
But, I think you can avoid putting a name/address on the sale document and just use it for the delivery slip.

 

[Nosophobia2017]

According to lawyer Toru Ino, who is well versed in consumer affairs, an NHK fee collector demanded in January last year that a 73-year-old man in Sapporo, who was living on a pension of about 70,000 yen a month, pay some 170,000 yen he had failed to pay for 10 years. The man did not know anything about the statute of limitations. He then consulted lawyer Ino and applied for public livelihood assistance, whose recipients are exempted from paying NHK reception fees.

Eventually I’ll find the address article and how NHK tracks people’s address to tally up fees. Here the man was approached after 10 years. This is the story I’ve heard, but I read about how NHK tracks new houses being built now.

 

[MossBoss]

So you think Biccamera is just going to let NHK to have access to their customer information like that?

Yes. In the UK it is the law so I don't think it would be a problem for the Japanese. Governments can and do access any data base they choose to, it is hardly difficult from a legal or technological standpoint. The government can pass a parliamentary bill if they need to.

 

[MikeH]

According to lawyer Toru Ino

So probably this article?

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20171204/p2a/00m/0na/006000c

They don't state it explicitly but seems everyone had signed. And they can only go back 5 years so about 120.000 yens.

 

[MikeH]

Yes. In the UK it is the law so I don't think it would be a problem for the Japanese. Governments can and do access any data base they choose to, it is hardly difficult from a legal or technological standpoint. The government can pass a parliamentary bill if they need to.

It seems the definition of "like that" is vastly different for me and you.

As long as it's not the law the biccameras can go just "fuck off" when the NHK comes and says "give me your customer data". Obviously they can make it a new law but then again they would need to give the data for any customers after the law passes.

 

[MossBoss]

Most people pay by credit cards so unless people make a point of paying cash they will be tracked.

As a side issue: Just wait till we have a 'cashless society'. Governments will know everything everyone does including their mongering habits.

 

[Nosophobia2017]

Mike

I get the signing part, but how do they know where you live and that you have a TV.

You are correct about the years.

But there is another article about targeting new home owners.

As the TAG manager said if you pay in cash how do they get your address associated with a TV. I’ve heard of the address connection but I can’t remember where I heard it. I know I did I just can’t remember but it was either in Saitama or in Kanagawa somewhere.

 

[MikeH]

As a side issue: Just wait till we have a 'cashless society'. Governments will know everything everyone does including their mongering habits.

Well, why do you think governments are so happily trying to get rid of the cash payments?

I get the signing part, but how do they know where you live and that you have a TV.

By coming to your house and making you sign the contract? Though it seems their tactics have been successful to make even people who don't have a TV to sign up.

 

[Nosophobia2017]

No there are people that have gotten court summons without signing. This is what I’m talking about. I’ll research when I’m not busy and find the evidence in Japanese.

 

[MikeH]

No there are people that have gotten court summons without signing. This is what I’m talking about. I’ll research when I’m not busy and find the evidence in Japanese.

Please do. Probably can find that evidence from the same place as an honest tout and the Japanese AV class girl who does FS for 10k.

 

[Nosophobia2017]

It’s there I swear Opie!

 

[User#8628]

I don't really think they care about the money in there. Court will come when they think you are high profile enough to raise a lot of press attention. So make publicly noise about the fact you are not paying or be famous enough. And I am guessing they will also get one foreigner in to the court soon enough to showcase.

Plottwist: they take Abe to court.

 

[Nosophobia2017]

I talked to my neighbor about this and he said that what I’m saying is true and it does happen. He’s heard of the same thing. How we heard is either from talking or actual printed news. He agrees that NHK can get your personal data without signing contracts. Then send you a summons. Most people just pay without going to court. Now I’ve talked to my neighbor and he knows what I’m talking about at least. But he said that it is possible for NHK to target people in many ways. Well, I’m paid up on NHK so I don’t worry about this kinda of deal and people only go to court if they have a cause to fight. Most give in before it goes that far. So it may very well have been a bar conversation I’m thinking of, yet my neighbor knows of similar situations.

 

[MikeH]

I talked to my neighbor about this

Well, if it was your neighbour who said that then it must be true. I mean who are we to argue with that?

I am just happy I did not hold my breath waiting for that conclusive proof.

 

[Sudsy]

They'll bankrupt themselves processing so many cases.

They don't pay hourly rates for lawyers, they have them on staff. The only costs they're bearing other than salary is filing fees and transportation.

Given that these cases are pretty much a slam dunk now, I'd figure that one lawyer and two paralegals could process forty or fifty cases a week easily.

If they're worth 200K each, that 3 person team can reasonably be expected to bring in north of thirty million yen a month.

I'm in the wrong line of work....

 

[TAG Manager]

They don't pay hourly rates for lawyers, they have them on staff. The only costs they're bearing other than salary is filing fees and transportation.

Given that these cases are pretty much a slam dunk now, I'd figure that one lawyer and two paralegals could process forty or fifty cases a week easily.

If they're worth 200K each, that 3 person team can reasonably be expected to bring in north of thirty million yen a month.

I'm in the wrong line of work....

I normally would agree with your posts usually... but I just don't think this is as slam-dunk as it seems. I'm willing to stake a bet on the resistance of the public who they tangle with.

 

[MikeH]

I normally would agree with your posts usually... but I just don't think this is as slam-dunk as it seems. I'm willing to stake a bet on the resistance of the public who they tangle with.

They would need at least some kind of proof that you actually own a TV or another device to receive the transmission. So I would think this needs more work than just bunch processing a list of people who haven't signed.

And as they can go back only 5 years worth of payments this will come to just 60 to 120 thousands per household.

 

[Sudsy]

I'm willing to stake a bet on the resistance of the public who they tangle with.

Most people won't challenge, as the legal fees would exceed what they owe to NHK. I'd bank that most won't even go to court, and will pay on receipt of the threat of legal action.

And more importantly, any decent attorney will advise people not to appeal - unless, of course, they can find another avenue to work, as this one's been definitively shut down.

They would need at least some kind of proof that you actually own a TV or another device to receive the transmission.

This is true - but in a lot of cases, all it takes is one of their collection people spotting the antenna on the roof of a house. I've been told - but this is purely anecdotal AFAIK - that they also routinely request and receive product registration records from TV and navigation equipment manufacturers. If this is true, there may be a class action case there somewhere for privacy law violations.

And as they can go back only 5 years worth of payments this will come to just 60 to 120 thousands per household.

Fair enough, I was just going off the numbers in the story posted - it seems that was for the 5 years previous to the suit being filed, and additional outstanding charges that accumulated during the legal actions and multiple appeals.

But still, even at 60K per head, if we use the lowest figure, you're still looking at roughly 9 million yen a month after filing fees. Makes lawyers a profit center. And I'm still in the wrong business.

 

[MikeH]

I'd bank that most won't even go to court, and will pay on receipt of the threat of legal action.

At least after they very publicly crucify a couple of cases in the near future.

 

[warubuta]

If your a single gaijin male living in the city, you can probably hold out forever. Who gives a fuck? If you are a Japanese housewife in the burbs, forgetaboutit. You will be shamed and pressured every fucking way from Sunday until you have that little sticker on your mailbox.

 

[Tralala30]

Can someone tell me what should i do?I accidently signed for NHK (that time was my 1st time in japan so idk about this) and the bills arrived at my apartment every month.I scared if they bring me to court but i also not really watch their channel and my tv is for my ps4 so what should i do?i really confused right now @@ should i cancel the contract or ?