American Guys Should Start Worrrying!

[MossBoss]

I can't help thinking that if Hillary Clinton becomes President she will unleash a bunch of anti-men (particularly anti-white men policies). This is based on her character flaws, anti-men outlook and the fact that she has been humiliated through out her 40 odd year marriage to Bill. Even during this election campaign she has been humiliated by the latest rumors of Bill's floozies

How about closing down the Asian massage parlors for starters? She can kill two birds with one stone. Stop men from having fun and stop the exploitation of Asian women. I truly pity our US cousins if she makes it as President.

 

[Manami TMK]

Does she make it clear that she is going to clean up the county if she becomes President?
Maybe she will try it however, I see bigger issues in the US than Asian massage parlors.

Do you think the same thing will happen in the near future in Tokyo as well as now we have a female governor and the olympics game is coming?

 

[MossBoss]

Clinton is clever enough to understand that she can't alienate a large section of the male population so she hasn't stated her policies with regards to such issues directly. I am just reading between the lines. I hope I'm wrong.

Anyway I'm sure Bill will still be laying his pipe in various other lady's holes whatever happens.

 

[Wwanderer]

Not at all likely imo. The Feds have minimal jurisdiction over massage parlors and such, and what they can do in principle is fairly limited by the courts in practice. US Presidents actually have surprisingly little power in domestic matters, especially when they don't have strong support from the other two branches of the Fed govt. It is not much like a British style parlimentary system...by design actually.

-Ww

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

I talked with a couple Japanese women about the US Presidential candidates on two different occasions. One woman just flat out said she likes Hillary because she thinks Trump is scary and dangerous. The other woman said that Trump doesn't like Japan. There is a chance that he might not like Japan, but when he said: "Look at Japan, they are beating us at everything." I don't think this was meant to be insulting to Japan lol. It sounded more like a compliment to me.

 

[HentaiHakujin]

This issue, well the effect on the sex industry, popped up in Thailand.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...to-sex-tourism-says-countrys-first-female-tou

Regardless of who wins, it will only hasten or briefly slow macro trends that are not positive for the USA. I tend not to believe that anything can keep the USA from going over the cliff. All societies move through fairly common stages and nothing lasts forever.

 

[Wwanderer]

This issue, well the effect on the sex industry, popped up in Thailand.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...to-sex-tourism-says-countrys-first-female-tou

Regardless of who wins, it will only hasten or briefly slow macro trends that are not positive for the USA. I tend not to believe that anything can keep the USA from going over the cliff. All societies move through fairly common stages and nothing lasts forever.

It depends a lot on what you mean by "going over the cliff". For example, Britain's glory days of dominating much of the world in many ways passed, but it does not mean that the lives of its citizens got worse or are at all bad by international standards. It was surpassed in a relative sense even while it improved in an absolute one. There are many other such examples.

This is not to say that the US, or any other country, can't go downhill in an absolute sense, but it is not inevitable that it will.

-Ww

 

[HentaiHakujin]

It depends a lot on what you mean by "going over the cliff". For example, Britain's glory days of dominating much of the world in many ways passed, but it does not mean that the lives of its citizens got worse or are at all bad by international standards. It was surpassed in a relative sense even while it improved in an absolute one. There are many other such examples.

This is not to say that the US, or any other country, can't go downhill in an absolute sense, but it is not inevitable that it will.

-Ww

There is no real historical precedent for a society in peak position losing that position and then returning. China is making an attempt, though it has happened on a time-scale of several thousand years and likely to be undermined by certain key demographic and environmental trends.

Europe is currently transforming rapidly. After significant periods of increasing lifespan (and associated healthy years of that lifespan) there are now decreases of quality that have started back as far as 2003.

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1311/1311.3799.pdf

Life expectancy has diminished in the USA and that is likely a continuing trend.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsr043743#t=article

We live in an era of generally disintegrating nation states/super states. A lot of this started in the 1989-1992 period. It has not ceased.

Relative peace appears to be on the decline.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...n-the-world-that-are-not-at-war-a7069816.html

More telling though than any individual people's ability to have a smart phone and internet (which both make this a relatively great time to be alive) is the ennui that takes hold of a people. A people go from believing in a future, or something big like landing on the moon, to becoming increasingly paralyzed in the ability to deal with any issue and a passive acceptance that greatness is in the past. And there is more than just standard of living to consider. Societies have an organic living quality to them. If a society is distressed it bleeds over to the individual. Below indicates continued fraying of the American national fabric. Even as the state has grown at nearly all levels, the nation is diminishing in cohesion.

http://journalistsresource.org/stud...ining-america-data-underlying-cultural-shifts

http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf

I think the above is a concise and interesting read.

I am not suggesting that a person cannot find quality of life. I imagine a resident of Constantinople was relatively unscathed by the 2 century ravaging of the western Roman empire. I am suggesting that the world order, economic/political/military, that people have spent the better part of their lives in might be changing in its most significant manner since 1989 and with a decidedly less optimistic future than was projected when the wall fell.

 

[HentaiHakujin]

As to the general meaning of going over the cliff. Akin to Athens after the engagement in Syracuse, military overstretch leads to someone calling the blank checks that have been written throughout the globe. American military support is proven to be a fraud.

A massive disruption in the financial system based on unsustainable debt trends. Basically, Chicago carried to the national level.

Dissolution of the social fabric of the nation as the demographic trends and social trends are exacerbated by a relatively worse economic situation.

What happened to the USSR is not something the USA is immune to.

If you give me the option of a future that looks like Star Trek or what we have previously observed in history. I will place my bets on history.

 

[HentaiHakujin]

Oh... and then all the massage parlors will close

 

[meiji]

As Ww said, HRC wouldn't really have any power over local capability to shut down massage parlors. And even localities that have attempted to have failed. Dallas went after parlors many years back based on women not being certified massage therapists and for other health and safety problems, and those places are still more or less perfectly fine.

Even IF there was a concerted effort to shut them down or crack down strongly on prostitution (and it's not clear at all that HRC is the man-hater that you make her out to be), there's just not enough manpower in law enforcement and too much of both supply and demand to eliminate it.

 

[HentaiHakujin]

Does she make it clear that she is going to clean up the county if she becomes President?
Maybe she will try it however, I see bigger issues in the US than Asian massage parlors.

Do you think the same thing will happen in the near future in Tokyo as well as now we have a female governor and the olympics game is coming?

My 2 yen... while it is hard to really understand another nation's political system, particularly a nation as different from the USA as Japan, I cannot posit any changes happening in Japan in the Olympic time frame. Japan has more or less had the same political party in power since 1955. Sea change movements less likely here. Also, Japanese politics seems to exist even more removed from the desires of the people than even our other world 'democracies'. So, unless their is interest from the power structure in changing the availability of p4p, it will stay.

Given there are no major cultural institutions (religion) or demographic changes (islam et al migration) putting any pressure on the culture, it would be fair to project some degree of stability. The only likely group that could drive a substantial change in sexual policy would be Japanese feminists; however, I have never read anything indicating widespread interest in the Japanese pleasure industry. I cannot see their eyes turning towards that political end until after they get workplace legislation through.

HH verdict: P4P safe through 2020.

 

[Desktop]

There's plenty of local government that have eradicated the sex industries in the US. I don't think it's even common for guys to go to a massage parlor. Strip clubs are more common & even that's regulated on the State level.

 

[TAG_Member]

ALL Americans should be worrying if the other clown were to somehow win.

 

[TheScientist]

Please lets not let TAG become a place for fear mongering and political shit stirring.

 

[veryniceguy]

I think the future of massage parlors is hardly an important issue in the results of the upcoming election..... the scary aspect is what if too many stupid people elect Trump! Now that's something to worry about!

 

[Wwanderer]

Europe is currently transforming rapidly. After significant periods of increasing lifespan (and associated healthy years of that lifespan) there are now decreases of quality that have started back as far as 2003.

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1311/1311.3799.pdf

Life expectancy has diminished in the USA and that is likely a continuing trend.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsr043743#t=article

While I very much appreciate the idea and practice of supporting claims with links to sources, when I read these first two in your post, I found that you rather seriously misrepresented what they actually say! That I do not applaud so much.

First of all, neither discusses life expectancy at birth, which is the only normal/conventional definition, but instead use rather contrived sounding stats: life expectancy without disability in the European case and life expectancy beyond age 65 in the US case. The former is slippery to measure and also can decrease precisely because improving health care allows people to live longer with various disabilities that would have quickly killed them in the past. Even more to the point, the latter article does not report any decline in life expectancy at age 65 at all; indeed it shows data that indicate continuing increases. Rather it simply argues that there is a *potential* (the word is in the title of the article) decrease in the future *if* some demographic trends in obesity continue and *if* they are not offset by further advances in medical technology. Worst of all imo, both articles give the strong appearance of having a hidden agenda or "axe to grind" rather than being just an objective examination of data. The former article repeatedly mutters ominously about the possibility that global warming is the culprit for increased years of life with a disability in (only some) European countries (without giving any basis for the claim), while the latter article appears to be intended to further raise (perhaps quite appropriately) alarm about increases in obesity in the US.

Anyway, after reading those two and discovering that they hardly supported your sweeping conclusions, I didn't bother to check out the others. I decided that my time was better spent at my local asian massage parlor before it gets closed down!

Finally, let me offer a link of my own to counter the pessimistic view of the future that you suggest:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-charts-to-be-thankful-for-this-thanksgiving/

(I know that I have posted it before on TAG, but it seems very relevant to this sub-thread.)

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

There's plenty of local government that have eradicated the sex industries in the US. I don't think it's even common for guys to go to a massage parlor. Strip clubs are more common & even that's regulated on the State level.

It is certainly true that local (not Federal) govt has an impact on the commercial sex industry in the US, an often dire one in fact, but I am not aware of any place where there is a strong local market (i.e., sufficient demand), including pretty much all large cities, that it has been eliminated by law enforcement activities. I definitely don't have any stats (or links!), but my anecdotal experience is that the availability of asian massage places and the segment of the commercial sex offerings they represent have not changed in any major way over the last few decades since I started paying attention.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Please lets not let TAG become a place for fear mongering and political shit stirring.

Strongly agree...and in any case, there is already a thread explicitly about this year's POTUS election. One is probably enough.

-Ww

 

[meiji]

My 2 yen... while it is hard to really understand another nation's political system, particularly a nation as different from the USA as Japan, I cannot posit any changes happening in Japan in the Olympic time frame. Japan has more or less had the same political party in power since 1955. Sea change movements less likely here. Also, Japanese politics seems to exist even more removed from the desires of the people than even our other world 'democracies'. So, unless their is interest from the power structure in changing the availability of p4p, it will stay.

Given the major structural differences between the US and Japan, they more or less surprisingly have very similar problems regarding the distortion of those structures. Mainly, that conservative elements in both countries are much stronger than populations suggest. In Japan this is due to the LDP more or less refusing to re-apportion seats in the Diet based on population, which has resulted in the last few elections in Japan to be declared illegitimate by the courts. The growth of cities hasn't lead to those cities getting more seats in the Diet, therefore less populous, more conservative areas proportionally have more power.

It's a little more complicated in the US, but somewhat similar (and unfortunately perfectly legal). It's a problem with 2 heads in the US- federalism is based upon states, not municipalities, and a sizable number of US states have conservative power bases despite the cities being mostly liberal, so you have situations like the (Republican) Governor of Florida declining federal money for a badly needed train line between Tampa and Orlando, or the (Republican) Texas Legislature invalidating municipal bans on fracking or on open-carry of guns. There's also the Electoral College, which gives much less populous states far more power per voter than larger states. The most drastic example is comparing California to Wyoming- in 2012, California cast a total of ~13 million votes for President. Since California gets 55 electoral votes out of the 538 total, that's 236,000 people per electoral vote. Tiny Wyoming gets the bare minimum of 3 electoral votes, but in 2012 only ~250,000 people voted for President in Wyoming, meaning that there's 83,000 people per electoral vote in Wyoming, giving them nearly 3x as much power. Despite the US getting more liberal over the recent past on a number of issues, especially social ones, those structural issues are going to mean that conservatives are not going to take it lying down.

 

[Sudsy]

It's a problem with 2 heads

Don't forget that the political hydra in the US has many more heads....

1) Gerrymandering is rampant, with electoral districts being distorted to ensure they don't change party affiliation.

2) There are no term limits for congress or senate. More than a hundred congressmen and senators have held seats for more than 30 years. One almost made it to 60.

3) The Dems and GOP have colluded to make independent candidates and alternate parties non-viable - in Georgia, a Dem or GOP candidate needs 2,000 signatures to register. Anyone else needs 67,000.

4) The government can unilaterally dismiss any court case - including ones meant to challenge the above - by claiming there are state secrets involved.

5) Supreme Court justices are appointed for life.

6) There is no oversight body for the Supreme Court to step in when there is a conflict of interest for one or more of the justices.

7) As we have seen this round, even within the two dominant parties, the candidate selection process is easily corrupted.

 

[Desktop]

Manhattan/Times Square until the 90's.
Boston also had all of its downtown adult related shops closed down too.

It is certainly true that local (not Federal) govt has an impact on the commercial sex industry in the US, an often dire one in fact, but I am not aware of any place where there is a strong local market (i.e., sufficient demand), including pretty much all large cities, that it has been eliminated by law enforcement activities. I definitely don't have any stats (or links!), but my anecdotal experience is that the availability of asian massage places and the segment of the commercial sex offerings they represent have not changed in any major way over the last few decades since I started paying attention.

-Ww

 

[HentaiHakujin]

I found that you rather seriously misrepresented what they actually say!

What an uncharitable read of my words.

The whole of the post is mostly indicative rather than conclusive, to that end it is hardly written like a thesis. Further, there is next to nothing written that does not come with someone's slant or point of view.

Regardless, the comment on Europe was as follows:

After significant periods of increasing lifespan (and associated healthy years of that lifespan) there are now decreases of quality that have started back as far as 2003.

From the associated articles conclusion:

"This analysis of differences of LE and HLYE, at birth, shows that the average duration of life in Europe is increasing but also that, at the same time, the quality of life as measured by the HLYE parameter, has been declining in several countries after 2003, especially for the case of Italy. Also other countries, such as France, show a decline in HLYE starting at later dates."

They admit that the measurement had a subjective element to it; they, as I would also, believe the whole thing warrants further investigation. I think some levels of societal ennui are associated, but there is no specific cause assigned in that paper. Misrepresented it is not.

The second claim is:

Life expectancy has diminished in the USA and that is likely a continuing trend.

The quoted article is associated with the continuing trend portion. I could have also included the articles showing life expectancy having declined in white males and females and being negative (except for rounding) with hispanic males, but that is all easy enough to find with 2016 dates from WSJ, Huffington Post etc and so I left it uncited. The cause of the observed decline is currently related to suicide and drugs. That would be in my view societal ennui again. There is widespread acknowledgement of an atypical 3 year pause in increasing lifespan in the USA. I would concede it would be more exact to say that overall there is an acknowledged plateau of life expectancy with a decline in two major population groups. I shorthanded it. The medical side seems poised to become the bigger driver which is what the New England Journal of Medicine article was referencing. You may not agree with the data presented, but misrepresentation is a stretch.

I didn't bother to check out the others

I am glad you let me know as that saves me many sleepless hours wondering what you read

If you tripped up over the first two, I would agree that the rest would not be to your taste. But on a website mostly dedicated to 'where all the nekkid women at' this whole discussion thread is probably of minimal value to the population.

Anyway, one area we probably could agree with is that regardless of if the future is Star Trek or Blade Runner, this particular election is unlikely to be the deciding factor.

 

[HentaiHakujin]

Manhattan/Times Square until the 90's.
Boston also had all of its downtown adult related shops closed down too.

San Antonio changed an ordinance that required all strip clubs to use pasties. There was also movement towards no touch. In spite of cultural changes in the USA, there does not seem to be a big relaxing of sex industries. It will remain like many things in America, land of too many laws, something that can be used to get someone anytime they want even if it is rarely enforced.

 

[Wwanderer]

Manhattan/Times Square until the 90's.
Boston also had all of its downtown adult related shops closed down too.

Nah, this is by no means a counter-example to what I said. Local govt definitely can put pressure on the commercial sex market and drive it into a lower profile (hidden) mode; this is essentially what happened in Manhattan/Times Square and in Boston's "combat zone". What it cannot do is eliminate commercial sex (not for long anyway) in places where there is a major market for it. There remain many many p4p offerings, infall and outcall, available in Manhattan and central Boston...probably more than there were back in the "good/bad ol' days" when such places advertised themselves with garish neon signs flashing crude come-ons in your face as you walked down the street. Moreover, with all the info available online, the p4p market in big cities in the US really doesn't need to be so high profile and obvious to draw its customers.

-Ww