Being Alpha In Japan

[IronGiant]

As a direct result of my participation in this forum, I have belatedly begun the long trek from Beta Male to Alpha Male. Four months ago I had no idea the distinction existed. Since then I've read widely and deeply, and I've taken my first Alpha baby steps.

However, none of my reading on this point has been Japan-specific. In the West, the successful Alpha is overconfident, outcome independent, strong, swaggering, tough. He isn't careful, clingy or needy, and he doesn't accept a woman's authority or try to woo a woman by buying her things or supporting her. And women find this aloofness attractive.

Outside Japan, the Alpha formula is clear enough. But how to apply it within Japan? I see at least two problematic points, one of general application and one specific to foreigners in Japan.

1. Japanese Culture Demands Self-Denigration

In the West, the ideal Alpha attitude is borderline asshole -- verging on asshole, but stopping just short. In particular, the typical Western Alpha has no qualms about demonstrating his value to women by subtly (or unsubtly) emphasizing his power, wealth, strength, skills, or other qualities. But it's hard to see this attitude playing well in Japan, where boasting, or even expressions of pride, are incredibly rude. Indeed, having lived so long in Japan, I don't think I'm even mentally capable of uttering a boast in Japanese, I'd die of shame.

Where does the Japanese Alpha draw the line (to the extent he still exists in this world of 草食系男子)? And where should the foreign Alpha draw it?

2. "Ladies First"

To complicate things even further, it seems that foreigners are supposed to be valued because they put "ladies first," which makes it seem like we're supposed to be a gaggle of Beta Males. So does the aspiring foreign Alpha in Japan who pushes the asshole envelope diminish his chances even further by ignoring the "ladies first" expectations of Japanese women? Or is this just another case of women saying that they want one thing, when they actually desperately desire the opposite?


To provide some context, let me explain how I am trying to apply these principles at present. Right now I'm having some great success with online game in the US. (Please, no fights over online game vs. other game, in Japan or in the US, etc.) The approach involves (1) a detailed and borderline-asshole online profile, and (b) very short messages to women inviting them to view my profile but implying that they should ignore the asshole parts, which are there to discourage "other" women. This has been working very well for me here. So in the context of the discussion about what it means to be a foreign Alpha in Japan, I'd also appreciate any thoughts about whether and to what extent it is advisable to use a borderline-asshole online profile in Japan as I've described.

Many thanks!

 

[John Chavers]

protip: don't talk about political topics unless you really want to kill that boner.

 

[Minato Namikaze]

"BITCH, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING OPENING THAT MOTHERFUCKING DOOR FOR YOURSELF? ALLOW ME TO FUCKING OPEN IT FOR YOUR UNGRATEFUL BITCH ASS. YOU ARE WELCOME, FINE PUSSY."

Japan Alpha, yo.

 

[Cobra_X30]

Outside Japan, the Alpha formula is clear enough. But how to apply it within Japan? I see at least two problematic points, one of general application and one specific to foreigners in Japan.
1. Japanese Culture Demands Self-Denigration
In the West, the ideal Alpha attitude is borderline asshole -- verging on asshole, but stopping just short. In particular, the typical Western Alpha has no qualms about demonstrating his value to women by subtly (or unsubtly) emphasizing his power, wealth, strength, skills, or other qualities. But it's hard to see this attitude playing well in Japan, where boasting, or even expressions of pride, are incredibly rude. Indeed, having lived so long in Japan, I don't think I'm even mentally capable of uttering a boast in Japanese, I'd die of shame.

2. "Ladies First"
To complicate things even further, it seems that foreigners are supposed to be valued because they put "ladies first," which makes it seem like we're supposed to be a gaggle of Beta Males. So does the aspiring foreign Alpha in Japan who pushes the asshole envelope diminish his chances even further by ignoring the "ladies first" expectations of Japanese women? Or is this just another case of women saying that they want one thing, when they actually desperately desire the opposite?

Very interesting question. I would say that women around the world are generally the same in their wants, but with only some small cultural tweaks.

In terms of being Alpha.... women want CONFIDENCE in a man. They value this over practically every other trait, but often can't tell a confident man from a selfish one. So, I would perhaps phrase your question more like: "How do I show very high self confidence while also conforming to Japanese social norms".

I also think that you can win that second battle by acting in a manner that shows you value her thoughts and feelings, yet also by being decisive and slightly controlling. For example, ask her what she wants to eat... maybe even help her decide... then order for her when the waiter comes.

 

[meiji]

"BITCH, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING OPENING THAT MOTHERFUCKING DOOR FOR YOURSELF? ALLOW ME TO FUCKING OPEN IT FOR YOUR UNGRATEFUL BITCH ASS. YOU ARE WELCOME, FINE PUSSY."

Japan Alpha, yo.

First time I went to Japan for business, I was working with this stunning 20-something JP woman, who spoke no English, and I didn't speak any Japanese at the time. I tried to hold the door open for her one, and she stopped before the open door and looked at me like I had 3 heads. I think she finally realized what I was doing and walked through the door bowing.

 

[Hamerare]

These alpha beta gamma distinctions r a crocka analytical shite. Just b urself

 

[John Chavers]

First time I went to Japan for business, I was working with this stunning 20-something JP woman, who spoke no English, and I didn't speak any Japanese at the time. I tried to hold the door open for her one, and she stopped before the open door and looked at me like I had 3 heads. I think she finally realized what I was doing and walked through the door bowing.

Now your username makes sense.

 

[Minato Namikaze]

First time I went to Japan for business, I was working with this stunning 20-something JP woman, who spoke no English, and I didn't speak any Japanese at the time. I tried to hold the door open for her one, and she stopped before the open door and looked at me like I had 3 heads. I think she finally realized what I was doing and walked through the door bowing.

A lot of japanese are like that actually. If you hold open a door for them, they'll be stunned and confused. Apparently, gentlemanly behavior is not commonly seen everyday. Hell, I see young motherfuckers every day on the train that would not give up their seats for the elderly or women. Some will even feign sleep or would just bring out their phones to avoid the awkward stares.

That is why when you do common, gentlemanly behavior around them, they have the need to feel like they now OWE you something if ever a time comes where you both cross paths again.

 

[Solong]

@IronGiant

1. I like your online dating profile ideal. Brilliant.

Being a bit different in your profile can help distinguish you from the rest.

Women are often of the mind that all guys online are playboys and liars, even if she lying by pretending she has only just started do online dating or is an even bigger playGIRL than any guys online. You being a borderline-asshole appeals to the urge of many women to try to tame a "bad boy". It's like saying, I'm a honest bad boy with a good heart or potential. Whatever... Certain women eat that bullshit up.

2. The Western Ladies First Style or Chivalry Doesn't Usually Work in Japan

Ladies first or chivalry often means to many Japanese that you are a SUCKER, weak, or want to be abused. Many Japanese don't appreciate or respect your kindness or even understand what you are doing. Holding the door can be interpreted as you see her as SUPERIOR to yourself. In Japanese culture, the MAN goes first, because he is the WARRIOR to make sure the area is clear and safe. She follows behind him for PROTECTION. See the problem? You following behind the woman for protection?

And by constantly treating her like she is superior, can cause her to start acting ARROGANT towards you or become SADISTIC, and seek to abuse you. She is thinking you LIKE to be treated as inferior or she gets used to the idea of stepping on you for fun. You give up all your money, you wash her back, you ask how she feels, you beg for sex, you open doors... And she does nothing but begrudging give you vagina sometimes, IF that.

3. In Japan, the Alpha DOES. He is the leader, and SHOWS it by taking charge of situations.

Just running your mouth or flexing muscles by itself doesn't work well in Japan. If anything, people will be afraid of you and run or talk about you behind your back. Alpha is more a leadership trait. You PUT her in line, you say what you are going to do and just do it. This then becomes the HABIT of the woman who chooses to follow you. If she chooses to follows you, then she does what you say. Almost as if you think for her and the leader make the arrangements. Decides where to go, what you will be doing. When it comes to money, you tell her how much to contribute. Etc... If she doesn't like, BYE. Turn your back on her and next.

The key here is it's a HABIT and many Japanese women are tentative about surrendering control over. The Alpha Japanese guys will often start out slow and smoothly. They will ask her lots of questions, to see HOW they will exert CONTROL over her later. Each time taking over a little more control and exerting dominance a little more, until they finally have near complete control. It's almost S&M like, with the guy being like a DOM.

 

[Hamerare]

Duh?

 

[Hamerare]

Iron Giants adventures in Tokyo spurred on by Scotty n Solong was 1 of the most entertaining chapters in TAG history

I'm still not convinced tho that the advice he received here did him n e good. Showing up l8 intentionally 4 a d8 cud of backfired but the woman was up for it n e way.

What really made me cringe was pawing the mature woman of 50 at the sushi shop. Personally I wuss played it cool but it probably wudnt of made much difference

By trying 2 change ur own personality 2 find women risks ending up with a bitch n alien8ng ones who mite like u

These pseudo scientific pickup methods ignore the human element of mutual physical attraction and non verbal interaction

 

[Solong]

Iron Giants adventures in Tokyo spurred on by Scotty n Solong was 1 of the most entertaining chapters in TAG history

I'm still not convinced tho that the advice he received here did him n e good. Showing up l8 intentionally 4 a d8 cud of backfired but the woman was up for it n e way.

What really made me cringe was pawing the mature woman of 50 at the sushi shop. Personally I wuss played it cool but it probably wudnt of made much difference

By trying 2 change ur own personality 2 find women risks ending up with a bitch n alien8ng ones who mite like u

These pseudo scientific pickup methods ignore the human element of mutual physical attraction and non verbal interaction

I'm intrigued on why you think pickup ignores mutual physical attraction or verbal interaction, because it doesn't. Refer to "Yes, No, or Maybe" thread in the NAMPA/PUA section.

If a woman dislikes or is repulsed by you, just about no amount of PUA or conversation is going to help you. Here, good PUA says EJECT and MOVE on to another woman, versus WASTING your time.

PUA tactics helps when she has put you in the "maybe" or "yes" categories. If "yes", the problem is guys may fuck up and pull something dumb. PUA helps guys avoid saying and doing dumb things that can lose them the woman.

If "maybe" PUA enhances your odds with women by tipping the balance more towards a favorable outcome.

By the way, many guys are clueless that women are using numerous tactics and modifications on them. Sexy clothing, makeup, pushup bras, surgery, acting coy, etc... Women are pulling "honey-traps" on guys all the time. The deal is the "game" is played differently between men and women. And often women try to "justify" their version game, and condemn the male version. However, nearly NO heterosexual male will ever win by playing the female passive honey-trapping version of the game.

 

[Hamerare]

I'm intrigued on why you think pickup ignores mutual physical attraction or verbal interaction, because it doesn't. Refer to "Yes, No, or Maybe" thread in the NAMPA/PUA section.

If a woman dislikes or is repulsed by you, just about no amount of PUA or conversation is going to help you. Here, good PUA says EJECT and MOVE on to another woman, versus WASTING your time.

PUA tactics helps when she has put you in the "maybe" or "yes" categories. If "yes", the problem is guys may fuck up and pull something dumb. PUA helps guys avoid saying and doing dumb things that can lose them the woman.

If "maybe" PUA enhances your odds with women by tipping the balance more towards a favorable outcome.

By the way, many guys are clueless that women are using numerous tactics and modifications on them. Sexy clothing, makeup, pushup bras, surgery, acting coy, etc... Women are pulling "honey-traps" on guys all the time. The deal is the "game" is played differently between men and women. And often women try to "justify" their version game, and condemn the male version. However, nearly NO heterosexual male will ever win by playing the female passive honey-trapping version of the game.

Thats the crux of the matter

Pick up techniques work for some n not otherz

While dudes r writing self help manuals, others who never read them r out having fun

But makes interesting reading so keep that stuff coming

 

[Solong]

Thats the crux of the matter

Pick up techniques work for some n not otherz

While dudes r writing self help manuals, others who never read them r out having fun

But makes interesting reading so keep that stuff coming

PUA comes from actually going out there. It comes from years of experience and many approaches, then being scientific about what works and what doesn't.

And there are many styles of PUA, just like professional champion fighters have different styles too. So guys can take up a style of PUA that is more suitable for them.

Before ever knowing a thing about PUA or swinging, I was definitely still getting women and sex, however it was random and lacking in understanding of what was going on.

It's like the difference between an untrained street brawler and a professional MMA fighter. It's not to say that a street brawler can't fight, but it is to say that 9 times out 10 he will get his ass kicked by a trained MMA fighter and athlete. The street brawler has never developed a deep understanding of technique, training, or fully explored developing his potential. He learned a couple of tricks and skills, but went no further. He relies on instinct, guts, bullying, and bravado. Unfortunately, that will only take you but so far. Unless he learns true technique and training, he has nearly NO hope at ever becoming a champ or winning at the higher levels.

Many guys are being random and clueless, thus falling victim to games and abuse by women. Many women are having a field day abusing guys so much, they've become arrogant and look at many guys as suckers and chumps. All that good PUA is doing is restoring balance in the games between the sexes.

 

[IronGiant]

What really made me cringe was pawing the mature woman of 50 at the sushi shop.

Ah, but if you'd been there and seen her, then you wouldn't have been able to keep your hands off of her either, trust me.

 

[Hamerare]

Ah, but if you'd been there and seen her, then you wouldn't have been able to keep your hands off of her either, trust me.

Personaly I cudnt d8 a woman that old but each to his own

Solong's comparison of PUA and boxing is kinda contrived.

But sure people can and should learn from their mistakes in n e field of life

I got visions of a nerdy dude referring to his PUA notes on his smartfon while approaching a woman. Like George McFly in Back To The Future

 

[Vulkan]

Whether one can learn from his mistakes highly depends on ability to analyze objectively those mistake, which highly relates to ones pas experiences and self esteem. The PUA articles like the ones Solong writes have the merit of setting some basic framework for this analysis and prevent the inexperienced guy to fall into the "I am just a failure " theory.

Telling someone to be just himself where he has always failed doing so is irresponsible: If you don't chsnge the input you get pretty much the same output

 

[Username1]

Personaly I cudnt d8 a woman that old but each to his own

Solong's comparison of PUA and boxing is kinda contrived.

But sure people can and should learn from their mistakes in n e field of life

I got visions of a nerdy dude referring to his PUA notes on his smartfon while approaching a woman. Like George McFly in Back To The Future

Have you see some of the hot 50 year olds around? I prefer my ladies young but some are definitely doable!

 

[Jimmydr]

Have you see some of the hot 50 year olds around? I prefer my ladies young but some are definitely doable!

Hot over 40? No way.

 

[meiji]

Hot over 40? No way.

I dunno about 50, but I went on some dates with 40 year old Japanese women, and some of them were super-hot. Japanese women generally know how to take care of themselves -- this one woman I went out with a few times had two kids but still had a bangin' body, and had this sultry Linda Fiorentino sort of look and attitude. Kinda pissed that I never sealed the deal with her.

 

[Hamerare]

Have you see some of the hot 50 year olds around? I prefer my ladies young but some are definitely doable!

Nope I never seen a hot 50 year old

 

[Hamerare]

Whether one can learn from his mistakes highly depends on ability to analyze objectively those mistake, which highly relates to ones pas experiences and self esteem. The PUA articles like the ones Solong writes have the merit of setting some basic framework for this analysis and prevent the inexperienced guy to fall into the "I am just a failure " theory.

Telling someone to be just himself where he has always failed doing so is irresponsible: If you don't chsnge the input you get pretty much the same output

People fail bcoz they r 2 shy or creepy or possess 2 heads. The PUA section here will not help them

So tell us Spock what is the secret of ur success

 

[Username1]

Nope I never seen a hot 50 year old

Ok perhaps I exaggerate a little here but close to 50. Takeda Kumiko for example I think is 47 this year and I am betting still hot in 3 years.

Here is the non work safe version.... You know you boyz would hit it!

 

[John Chavers]

had this sultry Linda Fiorentino sort of look and attitude. Kinda pissed that I never sealed the deal with her.

Yeah....

 

[Solong]

People fail bcoz they r 2 shy or creepy or possess 2 heads. The PUA section here will not help them

So tell us Spock what is the secret of ur success

Actually, the biggest reasons for failure from what I've seen is:

1) Being too afraid and insecure to approach women. Fear of rejection.

To hide their fear, often guys make excuses and rationalizations. Often the prettier the woman, the more excuses they have. Their true fear is that the woman may say "no", so they make excuses to not even try.

It's like a very fat person that knows they should exercise and eat less, but gives you a never ending list of BS excuses.

2) Laziness

You can NOT hit a home run if you never take a swing. Simple math, that many men have failed to take into account. One day later, becomes next week, becomes never and a long string of missed opportunities.

3) Failure To Understand Math

If you talk to 10 women, you are likely to score with 1 or 2. If you talk to 0 women or just occasionally 1 woman, you are MORE likely to get nothing. MATH

4) Having An Effeminate Mindset

Thinking that men can set honey-traps the same as women do. Such guys think WOMEN will APPROACH them/men as aggressively and proactively as men do women.

Women CAN wear a sexy dress, with makeup and enhancements, and then sit and wait. Men approach her because we have TESTOSTERONE. It does NOT work the same in reverse. A man holding up the wall, even if "cute", is more likely to be ignored.

Women are also often attracted to DIFFERENT attributes than men are with women. She might be more attracted to your leadership, social popularity, and MONEY than to your looks.

5) Failure At Hygiene & Fashion

Many guys look and smell a mess, in terms of how they present themselves. Looking sloppy, fat, unshaved or ungroomed, clothes are old or weird...

A lot of guys are NOT so much ugly, as oppose to PRESENTING themselves poorly. They don't understand that many women care excessively about their social and public image and what it would be like to be seen with you. Looking like a BUM or weirdo, won't help.

This is VERY VERY FIXABLE. If a guy takes the time to care about his appearance, he can get much better results.