Cancellations

[Anna Summer]

I was looking through some websites recently and there is one thing I notice quite a lot.
Cancellation fees/no show fees

First of all, yes that sucks, especially the no show guys. It's also understandable that there can be emergency cases, work etc.

These escorts always post that you have to pay the whole price you intended to book if you cancel or don't show up at all. How do they get the money? If someone made a joke booking than he could simply just disappear or am I wrong?

Does any of you have experience? Not necessarily no show up but I'm sure there are some who had to cancel before. Did the escort expect compensation even tho you cancelled?

 

[User#6517]

Well, I used to have a cancellation notice on my website.. but I don't do cancellation fees. I said that if a client decides to cancel, I would require a ¥10,000 deposit via PayPal before confirming a new appointment with him and can give the deposit back when meeting in person.

Most men who cancel do not try to book again, and the men who don't show up are placed on a blacklist.

I've had maybe two or three clients in the past who did book after cancelling the first appointment, and they had no problem laying down a deposit

I can understand an escort asking for a cancellation fee during a specific time period before the appointment.. because she might live far from the client's requested location.. but I can't understand why an escort would ask for full compensation from a new potential client. It's too much trouble and a waste of time in most cases.

 

[Desktop]

Maybe they force them to pay over text message???

 

[vck_js]

but I can't understand why an escort would ask for full compensation from a new potential client

To make up for the loss if she had to refuse Client B because of Client A's booking, but then Client A doesn't show up?

 

[User#6541]

This is a fairly interesting topic.
Let's not even talk about no show guys. Those indeed deserves an immediate blacklist.

Now, regarding cancellations, I do not believe in a cancellation fee.
If a date cancels , that person should still pay the whole amount.

(I believe in a not so old post I told I had to "cancel" a date due to incompatibility, but I still payed the full considerations before hand).

The reason is simple: What if the escort turned down another same day/same time appointment because she already agreed to meet you ? How is a cancellation fee any good there?

If the issue is how they get the money, that's an issue for cancel fees or full fees.
I would suggest bitcoin as the easy answer, and a account on a jurisdiction with bank secrecy as the best long term answer (it never hurts to be a number).

 

[User#6517]

To make up for the loss if she had to refuse Client B because of Client A's booking, but then Client A doesn't show up?

Oh.. now I can understand >__<

 

[Desktop]

But what about the guy who goes through the same thing?
A guy only has one Sunday free & you get a notice an hour or two beforehand that she can't make it. It happens.

 

[RickyJ]

Some providers and agencies require you to have a deposit online and will credit it to you upon completion of your appointment. As for the Asian scene, they could possibly black-list you or even muscle their way for payment (depending on who's backing who).

Our beautiful providers here in TAG though, only deserves the best and sincerity from their clients. Why miss that chance? くそったれ

 

[hkAlone]

Stuff happens... Both way

As a regular customer of international escorts, I have never been requested a deposit or cancellation fee except if I was arranging a trip abroad.
I am reading a lot about such deposits from many escorts on Twitter. I guess they concern new clients without references for escorts with established customers.

On a personal note, I would say that I cancel 1 out of 10 dates (as a general statistic), due to unexpected issues.

 

[Anna Summer]

I definitely understand the deposit thing to secure a booking and I read that escorts keep the deposit for a later appointment if the guy has to cancel. If he doesn't show up, they don't return anything.
But then there are escort who write that they will send you a link for paying the amount even if the client doesn't show up. Maybe I'm not getting that system. Of course it is good manners to compensate for the time she offered for the client as others mentioned it before.

 

[BIPSY]

Never cancelled myself - I think the worst I had to do was phone up an agency to see if we could bump an appointment back 30 minutes because a meeting went over time.

I've had escorts cancel a few times though - since I really only go through Japanese agencies the default reason is always poor health. Considering "health" cancellations also encompass the escort going on her period I can understand the need for that from time to time - never really a big deal for me.

The worst, though, was when I got a cancellation notice and the girl never came back on schedule - probably just straight up quit. That was a bummer - I was looking forward to seeing her again!

 

[vargas]

But then there are escort who write that they will send you a link for paying the amount even if the client doesn't show up. Maybe I'm not getting that system.

Wow, what country are these escorts in? There's absoluty no way I'd leave an electronic trail like that, or my payment information stored in some budget IT system waiting to be hacked.

Didn't people learn anything from Ashley Madison?!

 

[Anna Summer]

Wow, what country are these escorts in? There's absoluty no way I'd leave an electronic trail like that, or my payment information stored in some budget IT system waiting to be hacked.

Didn't people learn anything from Ashley Madison?!

I have seen this on American and British escort websites. Mostly from independent escorts. So I don't know how they make that work.

 

[hkAlone]

Wow, what country are these escorts in? There's absoluty no way I'd leave an electronic trail like that, or my payment information stored in some budget IT system waiting to be hacked.

Didn't people learn anything from Ashley Madison?!

There is a real need for an anonymous system of referral.
In a world where one third of bitcoins exchange websites got hacked, leaving your ID to highly exposed websites doesn't seem like a good idea.
I'm pretty sure, there are ways, with a bit of imagination to guarantee both safety and anonymity.

 

[vargas]

I have seen this on American and British escort websites. Mostly from independent escorts. So I don't know how they make that work.

Would have guessed it was at least in countries where sex work is not illegal! Talk about some serious risk.

 

[RandomTokyoGuy]

I have wondered the same as @Anna Summer especially with shops in Japan. There are sooooo many and how would they want to retrieve the fee at all?

I understand that it is considerate to compensate a provider if they incurred costs, but as for cancellation fees... The risk goes both ways. Now it may not sound nice and I actually can't remember to ever have cancelled an appointment, but it's part of the risk of the business. That being said I probably play the game at a different level than @Damian and rarely if ever have encounters where the lady would dedicate her whole day to me, whether it be for the preparation or the actual appointment.

I doubt I will ever use any service that requires a deposit. Most frauds work exactly that way. I don't see a reason to bother myself with the hassle of figuring a safe way to do that as long as their are plenty of options without that hurdle.

 

[roots reggae]

Well, having worked in the restaurant business for over 20 years, waste is built into the final price. In an indirect way, so are the costs of no-shows for reservations. All the costs are subtracted from the total sales, then a profit is determined. Prices are adjusted accordingly.

So, I guess what I am saying, the costs of no-shows should be built into the fee for service.

 

[User#8628]

Well, having worked in the restaurant business for over 20 years, waste is built into the final price. In an indirect way, so are the costs of no-shows for reservations. All the costs are subtracted from the total sales, then a profit is determined. Prices are adjusted accordingly.

So, I guess what I am saying, the costs of no-shows should be built into the fee for service.

It really makes me sad how often we have to make our greatest customers pay extra to make up for the flaws of some asses.
I make up for it by trying to give my greatest service to the sweethearts who show up and are nice during the session. The people who no show or cancel last minute.. They are the ones who miss out

 

[roots reggae]

It really makes me sad how often we have to make our greatest customers pay extra to make up for the flaws of some asses.
I make up for it by trying to give my greatest service to the sweethearts who show up and are nice during the session. The people who no show or cancel last minute.. They are the ones who miss out

Well, to compensate, maybe a point card or frequent flyer miles?

You are in business and in the business model, repeat customers are often given incentives since their patronage costs less in the long run.

 

[User#8628]

Well, to compensate, maybe a point card or frequent flyer miles?

You are in business and in the business model, repeat customers are often given incentives since their patronage costs less in the long run.

IME guys don't apprechiate the kind of professionalism of giving a literal point card or something from an indipendent. But i guess most intipendend girls (me as well) are looser around regulars. More comfortable, less clock watching and so on.

 

[MacMackerson]

In Japan I have had restaurants tell me they will charge a fee if I don't show up for reservations. They just had my phone number, no CC number or anything. So weird but at least they made their expectation clear up front.

I have been canceled on several times same day always due to "health reason". No big deal, shit happens!

 

[User#6541]

That being said I probably play the game at a different level than @Damian and rarely if ever have encounters where the lady would dedicate her whole day to me, whether it be for the preparation or the actual appointment.

This is not related to the thread, but I feel that I probably gave a wrong impression there. Not that anyone really cares, but better to clarify:

It is true that pretty much all the escorts dates I ever had were in the form of 'dinner and dessert', but it's also true that I never ever repeated a provider.
With an exception, which is @User#16452. Curious enough, the only escort date I ever had that lasted days for me, was indeed with her.
She captivated me from the first dinner together, and we discovered a (very) high compatibility between ourselves.
Since then we've taken our time together, lasting from few days to few weeks. (Undocumented, mutual agreement, and not feeling it would be a fair review to post).

Bottom line, I don't think I play the game in a "different level" with escorts, to be fair nowadays I don't even play the game.
Yes, I've done different things with @User#16452, but then again, she is that unique (both personally and professionally).

 

[Wwanderer]

This is a fairly interesting topic.

I'd say it is a really tough/problematic topic, which I've seen much debated on other boards (but don't recall previous TAG discussions). Here's a bunch of somewhat disconnected comments:

- I do NOT think that the escort automatically deserves her full fee if a customer cancels. It is true that she *might* have given up another date and thus deserve compensation for that "opportunity cost", but then again she might not have had another one...so 100% compensation seems hard to justify logically, should be some fraction of the fee she would have received for the canceled date it seems to me. And of course there are other factors, especially how far in advance the date is canceled; it could be an hour or a week, giving her different chances of getting another date instead. And the night or day of the week is relevant to the "opportunity cost"; having a date canceled for a Friday night is a bit different than having one canceled for a Tuesday morning in terms of opportunity cost. Etc.

- And what compensation should a customer get when an escort cancels (or no-shows)? He has also lost an opportunity, sometimes a rare and precious one for traveling mongers. Should he get a discount on his next session with the provider or extra time or anything? Ime, most escorts do not offer anything more than an apology when they cancel, and this of course reduces the willingness of customers to pay any cancelation fee when they are the one to call it off (although it is usually with a different provider).

- Another negative of "penalties" for cancelations is that they may inhibit an escort or a customer from canceling even when there is a good and legit reason. Maybe he or she feels an oncoming sore throat, fever or cold and does not want to give it to their partner of the night. Maybe a bad review of her is posted after he makes the appointment. Maybe his name gets added to a black list by some other provider. Maybe one of them gets "a bad feeling" about the other due to something a bit creepy in a last minute correspondence. Etc.

- If everyone were honorable and acted in good faith, I think that cancelations would be rare and justified enough that it would make sense to forget about fees and penalties and simply accept them as a normal part of life. Sometimes something unexpected comes up in all of our lives. People get sick or have emergencies at work or home etc. Everyone should just apologize when it happens, and their apologies should be accepted. Of course but unfortunately, there are quite a lot of customers and escorts who do not behave so well and essentially take advantage of the fact that they can cancel with little consequence and do so for their own convenience. There are customers who routinely book multiple appointments well in advance for the night they are in town or free or whatever with the full intention of canceling all but one, or even all, of them when the time comes depending on their mood/whim or how heavy their wallet is or whatever. There are escorts who habitually cancel dates to take more lucrative ones (or ones with favorites) that come along at the last minute...or cancel just because they don't happen to feel like working when the time comes. It is these badly behaving people that make cancelations and no shows such a hassle for everyone else, and of course those that pay the cancelation fees and penalties are almost always the good behaving ones, not the problem causing ones. In other words, the fees and penalties tend to punish the blameless and do nothing to the unscrupulous.

- Old Man Note: These problems were A LOT worse before commercial sex went online. Without reviews or black lists, escorts and customers could cancel and no show with almost no consequence. I don't really know, but I wouldn't be surprised if such unhappy outcomes were 5 times more common in the pre-net p4p days.

- Except in the most extreme circumstances no-shows are hard to excuse or understand, but of course no shows are also the cases in which it is most difficult/impossible to collect any cancelation fee or penalty.

Overall, it is a mess with no real "solution" or "best practice" in sight as far as I can see.



-Ww

 

[hkAlone]

I'd say it is a really tough/problematic topic, which I've seen much debated on other boards (but don't recall previous TAG discussions). Here's a bunch of somewhat disconnected comments:

- I do NOT think that the escort automatically deserves her full fee if a customer cancels. It is true that she *might* have given up another date and thus deserve compensation for that "opportunity cost", but then again she might not have had another one...so 100% compensation seems hard to justify logically, should be some fraction of the fee she would have received for the canceled date it seems to me. And of course there are other factors, especially how far in advance the date is canceled; it could be an hour or a week, giving her different chances of getting another date instead. And the night or day of the week is relevant to the "opportunity cost"; having a date canceled for a Friday night is a bit different than having one canceled for a Tuesday morning in terms of opportunity cost. Etc.

- And what compensation should a customer get when an escort cancels (or no-shows)? He has also lost an opportunity, sometimes a rare and precious one for traveling mongers. Should he get a discount on his next session with the provider or extra time or anything? Ime, most escorts do not offer anything more than an apology when they cancel, and this of course reduces the willingness of customers to pay any cancelation fee when they are the one to call it off (although it is usually with a different provider).

- Another negative of "penalties" for cancelations is that they may inhibit an escort or a customer from canceling even when there is a good and legit reason. Maybe he or she feels an oncoming sore throat, fever or cold and does not want to give it to their partner of the night. Maybe a bad review of her is posted after he makes the appointment. Maybe his name gets added to a black list by some other provider. Maybe one of them gets "a bad feeling" about the other due to something a bit creepy in a last minute correspondence. Etc.

- If everyone were honorable and acted in good faith, I think that cancelations would be rare and justified enough that it would make sense to forget about fees and penalties and simply accept them as a normal part of life. Sometimes something unexpected comes up in all of our lives. People get sick or have emergencies at work or home etc. Everyone should just apologize when it happens, and their apologies should be accepted. Of course but unfortunately, there are quite a lot of customers and escorts who do not behave so well and essentially take advantage of the fact that they can cancel with little consequence and do so for their own convenience. There are customers who routinely book multiple appointments well in advance for the night they are in town or free or whatever with the full intention of canceling all but one, or even all, of them when the time comes depending on their mood/whim or how heavy their wallet is or whatever. There are escorts who habitually cancel dates to take more lucrative ones (or ones with favorites) that come along at the last minute...or cancel just because they don't happen to feel like working when the time comes. It is these badly behaving people that make cancelations and no shows such a hassle for everyone else, and of course those that pay the cancelation fees and penalties are almost always the good behaving ones, not the problem causing ones. In other words, the fees and penalties tend to punish the blameless and do nothing to the unscrupulous.

- Old Man Note: These problems were A LOT worse before commercial sex went online. Without reviews or black lists, escorts and customers could cancel and no show with almost no consequence. I don't really know, but I wouldn't be surprised if such unhappy outcomes were 5 times more common in the pre-net p4p days.

- Except in the most extreme circumstances no-shows are hard to excuse or understand, but of course no shows are also the cases in which it is most difficult/impossible to collect any cancelation fee or penalty.

Overall, it is a mess with no real "solution" or "best practice" in sight as far as I can see.



-Ww

Exactly that...
Hard to a add anything to the debate after such post.

 

[RandomTokyoGuy]

@Damian
I did not intend to judge your preferences in any way. My point was only that if one consumes a more luxury service the rules or expected behavior might differ.

I also remembered I believe @User#16452 stating somewhere that she invests quite some time to prepare for the date. I believe a lot of ladies might do that in preparation for a dinner date. In other words the time blocked around the actual event in such a case is much more significant.