Confessions of a Tokyo Plate-Spinner

[thegreek]

Three years ago I posted a detailed but bloated guide to dating apps and how to go about using them well, as I saw it at the time. I'm grateful for the response it got and sincerely hope some of you got something out of it. Shout out to TohouAsura who posted a similar breakdown in the replies. Good stuff. Since then, much has changed. As of December 2022, masking remains near universal, making approaches a gamble in many locations. HUBs went to hell, taking a couple of my favourite spots out of the game. On the other hand more women than ever are using apps. The pandemic further exposed the weakness of Japanese men and young women seem to be getting hungrier and more aggressive. There is much fun and conquest to be had. I have also succeeded in making more male friends, real bros. The kind who know that we come before hoes. I've had opportunity to learn from their different approaches to women. I've also grown myself and while I am contemplating retiring from the game, things are working better than ever for me right now.

All apps but pairs, omiai and with are now wastes of time and money to me. Pairs barely makes that list and seems to have a bot problem as of late. I do know a guy who has done alright out of bumble lately. Nothing else is even worth mentioning at this point. I might still recommend language exchange apps such as Tandem or HelloTalk but I hear time investment is now high, so this is perhaps a better avenue for younger men with more time than money. I moved to a bigger apartment, upgraded my exercise routine and stepped up my fasting. This has lead to a decent reduction in body fat percentage which has made a major positive difference in my interactions with women. I do not dispute the stories of obese men taking home sexy women: there is a market for all types after all. However, adding muscle, slimming down, grooming and dressing up remains the path to broader appeal and appeal with higher calibre women. Nothing beats the feeling of walking into a bar or an izakaya and turning female heads in a good way. Don't overdo the dressing up though, or you'll just be the creepy guy in the loud suit who everyone avoids. Many such cases.

I have made relatively cold few approaches in the last few years. My standards have risen greatly. I generally have about 5-7 plates spinning at any one time, a few long term core and others that rotate in and out. This gives me the freedom to never have to beg for it from some run-through OL or be forced into wooing a fat otaku hog. A girl really has to be a bullseye for me before I even consider it nowadays, and with everyone's face hidden bullseyes are hard to spot. I don't discount approach entirely though. A bro recently pulled a girl more than a decade younger than him, but from a shopping centre rather than a bar. Another bro does well in bars in the city regularly. His game is persistence: he just bounces around until he finds a girl that is keen and then taxis home with her. Takes patience, but it works. Ratios on Fridays and Saturdays are murder. You'll have better luck mid-week. Going with a friend or two and aiming for pairs or trios continues to yield consistently good results.

When it comes to girls from apps, the second date is basically permission to take her home. I don't bother with second dates now unless I feel like she is going to be a decent lay. As you progress in the game, it becomes really important to actually want it. I have found myself self-sabotaging relationships because I just wasn't that keen on the girl. At one point I found myself in bed naked with a beautiful younger woman but I just didn't care. I was more concerned about getting a good night's sleep before work. It is also important to be clear with the girl about wanting her sexually, but without being sleezy or too direct about it. Once I failed to do this sufficiently and received some very blue balls for my trouble, despite getting her home. These days the game to me is not just about getting sex from anywhere I can, but going younger, aiming higher, and going for women I am actually drawn to. This requires some self-honesty and restraint. I see men in Tokyo stabbing eachother in the back and tiring themselves out over mid-to-low-level pussy and I just don't recommend that kind of hollow existence. Drama is gay, too.

Though I would like to retire soon, I still have some goals. I look forward to seeing how the game plays as I continue exercising and looksmaxxing. If anybody knows a reliable place to meet gyaru (spesh the tanned, dyed-hair kind) please reply below, this is territory I want to explore further. I'll lurk a bit more regularly, in case anyone has any questions. Keen to talk to anyone who just wants to have a more fast-paced chat sometime, sharing is caring and there is much we can all learn from eachother. Surprising how few men out there can actually relate.

Merry Christmas and good hunting to all.

 

[jatriami]

Thanks for your write up. It’s clear you have so much abundance and skill that you’re fighting to even stay interested in the whole pursuit at this point. But I am still most curious to hear directly, why do you say you would like to retire soon?

 

[thegreek]

Thanks for your write up. It’s clear you have so much abundance and skill that you’re fighting to even stay interested in the whole pursuit at this point. But I am still most curious to hear directly, why do you say you would like to retire soon?

Thanks for reading.

Considering retiring mainly to start a family. The game also uses a lot of time in meeting and communicating, as well as significant money in eating out. Even if you minimise, it builds up. There are other parts of my life I'd like to work on more at this stage.

 

[hamsap]

Tandem or HelloTalk but I hear time investment is now high

I've been using HelloTalk recently and slept with two people from it. You're right in that it takes a long time, both were a very long time until initial meet up but then pretty fast after that.

 

[MrDuBois]

Man I don't even know why I read these threads anymore. They always stress me the fuck out and make me feel like shit.

HelloTalk is trash, Bumble is also pretty trash unless you look like god.

Good luck on the gyaru hunt and retirement.

 

[Sudsy]

unless you look like god.

Hey, those of us who look like gods are offended by that remark.

Personally, I bear a strong resemblance to Krampus... Krampus is a kind of god right?

 

[thegreek]

Man I don't even know why I read these threads anymore. They always stress me the fuck out and make me feel like shit.

HelloTalk is trash, Bumble is also pretty trash unless you look like god.

Good luck on the gyaru hunt and retirement.

Why the stress?

 

[MrDuBois]

Bring out all that self-loathing over the inability to do the same thing you people do. Don't really want to go into more detail out in "public".

 

[hamsap]

Bring out all that self-loathing over the inability to do the same thing you people do. Don't really want to go into more detail out in "public".

Sorry to hear that, I won't pry to much and I don't know your situation but we are a big family here to support each other in all aspects.
Feel free to reach out if you need.

 

[thegreek]

Bring out all that self-loathing over the inability to do the same thing you people do. Don't really want to go into more detail out in "public".

I'm sorry to hear that. Def not my intention to make anyone feel bad, only offer a hand.
I'm still a shit cold approacher if it's any consolation, and my clown game is easily outclassed.
Always work to do.

 

[Danbo]

Bring out all that self-loathing over the inability to do the same thing you people do. Don't really want to go into more detail out in "public".

You shouldn't take things written online too seriously. Things always sound exaggerated and you exxagerate it even more in your own mind. Reality is often a lot less spectacular.

Take it with the same grain of salt like the reviews.....some if them also sound like the most insane better-than-JAV fuckfests. Probability is high that it wouldn't have looked that glorious from a neutral third person perspective 😉

 

[Combat]

I'm surprised that you're down on Bumble, has it really changed that much? I thought it was pretty great as of a year ago or so, with the only caveat that it's a very internationalized pool.

 

[requiemmorrow]

You shouldn't take things written online too seriously. Things always sound exaggerated and you exxagerate it even more in your own mind. Reality is often a lot less spectacular.

Take it with the same grain of salt like the reviews.....some if them also sound like the most insane better-than-JAV fuckfests. Probability is high that it wouldn't have looked that glorious from a neutral third person perspective 😉

Nope.

My sex is glorious and beautiful and better-than-BangBros grade pornographic content: It is like watching a ChocoTaco shoot its ice cream filling onto Amaterasu.

It’s so good it is rated G in North Korea.

 

[MrDuBois]

Sorry to hear that, I won't pry to much and I don't know your situation but we are a big family here to support each other in all aspects.
Feel free to reach out if you need.

Thanks!

I'm sorry to hear that. Def not my intention to make anyone feel bad, only offer a hand.
I'm still a shit cold approacher if it's any consolation, and my clown game is easily outclassed.
Always work to do.

Nah you're fine lol. Your post definitely is helpful for anyone who can make use of it. Just so happens that I have convinced myself that I can not.

You shouldn't take things written online too seriously. Things always sound exaggerated and you exxagerate it even more in your own mind. Reality is often a lot less spectacular.

Take it with the same grain of salt like the reviews.....some if them also sound like the most insane better-than-JAV fuckfests. Probability is high that it wouldn't have looked that glorious from a neutral third person perspective 😉

I mean, yeah, that's true but there's some foreign nampa boy outthere in Tokyo right now who picked up a good looking Japanese girl and bangs her brains out. Maybe it's not spectacular, maybe she's not even good in bed but at least he's doing it

 

[thegreek]

I'm surprised that you're down on Bumble, has it really changed that much? I thought it was pretty great as of a year ago or so, with the only caveat that it's a very internationalized pool.

I generally use any app for a month or so then get off it.

I did a Bumble run earlier this year. Got a few matches. Most busted compared to other apps. Only two meets. Both not great. Then new matches stopped and ended run. Yielded zero lays. Timing matters though, so perhaps was just a bad run.

Had a mate do better out of it and pull a few but still mostly older (late 30s+) women iirc.

For reference, a month on a better app can yield lots of meets and 1-4+ new lays easy.

 

[Danbo]

I mean, yeah, that's true but there's some foreign nampa boy outthere in Tokyo right now who picked up a good looking Japanese girl and bangs her brains out. Maybe it's not spectacular, maybe she's not even good in bed but at least he's doing it

There are always people around you that do things better, more often, look better, are more popular.......it will only drive you crazy to compare. Just do your best to get the best out of your personal experiences/choices and enjoy them 👍

 

[jatriami]

Thanks for reading.

Considering retiring mainly to start a family. The game also uses a lot of time in meeting and communicating, as well as significant money in eating out. Even if you minimise, it builds up. There are other parts of my life I'd like to work on more at this stage.

You say you spend a lot of money eating out. Are you always paying for the girl when you go out to eat? Even past the first date?

 

[thegreek]

You say you spend a lot of money eating out. Are you always paying for the girl when you go out to eat? Even past the first date?

Generally I go to cheap-to-moderate venues and pay between half and three quarters of the bill at first venue, split more evenly at second. Costs 4~10k for the night.

My choice since a good girl who likes you will offer to pay half and you can probably let her without suffering. I just don't. It's usually a shitty girl who doesn't like you that tries to make you pay all and doesn't offer.

I got stung only once this year, reminding me of the importance of choosing who you invite out carefully.

By second or third dates+ the venue is my place, I pay for and prepare food and ask she bring some alcohol she likes, so it stops being an issue.

 

[jatriami]

Thanks for humoring my questions. Your experience is very interesting, and while it is something that most of us can only dream of, I enjoy hearing your stories to get a sense for what is possible.

I generally have about 5-7 plates spinning at any one time, a few long term core and others that rotate in and out.

So you mentioned you have 5-7 going at a time. What does that actually look like day to day? What are the relationships with the girls actually like? For instance, do message and or call each of them every day like as if you had 5-7 girlfriends? Or is it more like a kind of passive booty call kind of deal were you guys basically contact each other and spend time mostly for sex and that’s it?

Do you explicitly communicate to the girls that they are not exclusive and you are dating others, or it’s all kind of hush hush? If the latter, do you find it to be logistically difficult to keep things secret between each of the girls? Also, what happens when the girl starts asking for deeper commitment? Do you just ghost her or move on?

You also mentioned that all this takes up a huge amount of time. How much time a week do you think you spend messaging, contacting, and meeting with everyone? Do you have much time for yourself?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, I am just curious.

 

[thegreek]

Thanks for humoring my questions. Your experience is very interesting, and while it is something that most of us can only dream of, I enjoy hearing your stories to get a sense for what is possible.
...
Sorry for the barrage of questions, I am just curious.

No worries re: the questions. That is why I've made myself available. Ask away.

So you mentioned you have 5-7 going at a time. What does that actually look like day to day? What are the relationships with the girls actually like? For instance, do message and or call each of them every day like as if you had 5-7 girlfriends? Or is it more like a kind of passive booty call kind of deal were you guys basically contact each other and spend time mostly for sex and that's it?

There is an informal ranking, maybe I can model it as three levels: top, mid and bottom.

Tops I meet at least every two weeks and reserve weekend time for. These are serious LTRs and marriage candidates. I have to juggle special occasions with them but it mostly works. Most likely to go on trips. Messages at least once every 2 days or so. If she has a meltdown, would try to salvage the relationship.

Mids are similar to top, but less likely to marry. Perhaps very good lays. Usually somewhat LTRs. Still meet in general every fortnight or so. Less likely to have trips together. They are later in line when it comes to special occasions. Less money and time dedicated than tops. Still very much girlfriend level though. Messages at least every 4-7 days. Won't necessarily chase if she has a meltdown and walks.

Bottoms are closer to booty calls. Usually STRs. Meet once a month or so. Avoid meeting if no possibility for sex. Occasional outside dates. Do not take trips together. I am unavaiable for them during special occasions. Low message pace, can sometimes go a week without. Fit them in when I can, basically. Do not mind if they walk. Definitely don't chase. Purely at my convenience. You'd be surprised how many girls this works for.

Every few months I hop on an app or go on hunts outside and set up dates with new girls, usually on nights earlier in the week (the cheap realestate) like Monday or Tuesday. When plate capacity is full, it can make wooing a new girl hard (timing is everything) so I try to aim this for times when plates are down. These girls usually start at bottom or mid tier.

I'm required to keep my place spotless: a stray hair that doesn't belong to a girl who visits can end a relationship. I have never had an unannounced visit but I turn my doorbell off when I have company and make it clear turning up unannounced is not okay as I am generally "busy" to preclude it. When I have company, notifications are completely off on my phone, if it isn't in flight mode. Have had relationships killed because another girl suddenly LINE called me at the very time I was showing photos to a girl. One looked like a young Valeria Gorlino. I was gutted.

Also extremely careful about showing things on phone in general:

• pics with or of other girls can crop up, including nudes
• notifications, message previews, calls from other girls can show up
• she may notice you have a dating or even language exchange app installed
• she may notice another girl's name show up in your autocorrect
• once a GAME sent a notification filled with hearts. The girl saw the hearts and that was a big fight. The relationship survived but I'm still not sure she ever believed it wasn't from a girl.

If showing pics or something on phone is part of your game, make sure to sanitise things first. I just avoid.

I seldom call anyone, only when a message conversation becomes emotionally charged, as txting is just no good for fights. I take calls that come when I can and try to reply to messages within 12hrs or so.

You also mentioned that all this takes up a huge amount of time. How much time a week do you think you spend messaging, contacting, and meeting with everyone? Do you have much time for yourself?

Messaging isn't that time-consuming, I don't have big conversations usually. It's usually just pings, or answering questions, or setting up dates. It's the dates, the prep and the aftermath of them that uses time and yeah that does mean less time for me. This is one of my motivations for wanting to retire.

Protip: My phone is always on silent, or on vibrate. I keep everyone on my line list muted, except for whoever I am meeting that day or if I am sexting someone. This makes it very easy to just message when you feel like it, as you don't have a notification on your phone piquing your curiosity over what is usually a nothing. You can reply to everyone at once too, then come back a few hours and reply to those replies. Much more time and emotionally efficient.

Feel free to ask anything else.

 

[hamsap]

No worries re: the questions. That is why I've made myself available. Ask away.


There is an informal ranking, maybe I can model it as three levels: top, mid and bottom.

Tops I meet at least every two weeks and reserve weekend time for. These are serious LTRs and marriage candidates. I have to juggle special occasions with them but it mostly works. Most likely to go on trips. Messages at least once every 2 days or so. If she has a meltdown, would try to salvage the relationship.

Mids are similar to top, but less likely to marry. Perhaps very good lays. Usually somewhat LTRs. Still meet in general every fortnight or so. Less likely to have trips together. They are later in line when it comes to special occasions. Less money and time dedicated than tops. Still very much girlfriend level though. Messages at least every 4-7 days. Won't necessarily chase if she has a meltdown and walks.

Bottoms are closer to booty calls. Usually STRs. Meet once a month or so. Avoid meeting if no possibility for sex. Occasional outside dates. Do not take trips together. I am unavaiable for them during special occasions. Low message pace, can sometimes go a week without. Fit them in when I can, basically. Do not mind if they walk. Definitely don't chase. Purely at my convenience. You'd be surprised how many girls this works for.

Every few months I hop on an app or go on hunts outside and set up dates with new girls, usually on nights earlier in the week (the cheap realestate) like Monday or Tuesday. When plate capacity is full, it can make wooing a new girl hard (timing is everything) so I try to aim this for times when plates are down. These girls usually start at bottom or mid tier.

I'm required to keep my place spotless: a stray hair that doesn't belong to a girl who visits can end a relationship. I have never had an unannounced visit but I turn my doorbell off when I have company and make it clear turning up unannounced is not okay as I am generally "busy" to preclude it. When I have company, notifications are completely off on my phone, if it isn't in flight mode. Have had relationships killed because another girl suddenly LINE called me at the very time I was showing photos to a girl. One looked like a young Valeria Gorlino. I was gutted.

Also extremely careful about showing things on phone in general:

• pics with or of other girls can crop up, including nudes
• notifications, message previews, calls from other girls can show up
• she may notice you have a dating or even language exchange app installed
• she may notice another girl's name show up in your autocorrect
• once a GAME sent a notification filled with hearts. The girl saw the hearts and that was a big fight. The relationship survived but I'm still not sure she ever believed it wasn't from a girl.

If showing pics or something on phone is part of your game, make sure to sanitise things first. I just avoid.

I seldom call anyone, only when a message conversation becomes emotionally charged, as txting is just no good for fights. I take calls that come when I can and try to reply to messages within 12hrs or so.


Messaging isn't that time-consuming, I don't have big conversations usually. It's usually just pings, or answering questions, or setting up dates. It's the dates, the prep and the aftermath of them that uses time and yeah that does mean less time for me. This is one of my motivations for wanting to retire.

Protip: My phone is always on silent, or on vibrate. I keep everyone on my line list muted, except for whoever I am meeting that day or if I am sexting someone. This makes it very easy to just message when you feel like it, as you don't have a notification on your phone piquing your curiosity over what is usually a nothing. You can reply to everyone at once too, then come back a few hours and reply to those replies. Much more time and emotionally efficient.

Feel free to ask anything else.

I feel you on all of this. I honestly can't keep up with it all. I usually do short bursts of all in or all out.

And one thing I have noticed that is different about Japanese girls than the girls in the other countries I've lived in is that Japanese girls really don't seem to mind not texting for extended periods of time each day. It actually took me a while to get used to it when I got here.

I'm required to keep my place spotless: a stray hair that doesn't belong to a girl who visits can end a relationship.

Always helpful to organise at least one date at your place a week just to make sure you get it clean haha

 

[thegreek]

And one thing I have noticed that is different about Japanese girls than the girls in the other countries I've lived in is that Japanese girls really don't seem to mind not texting for extended periods of time each day.

Yes, actually the opposite. Texting too much WILL kill your relationship here in 95% of cases. I feel the goal overseas is to train women to be okay with slow and erratic responses.

Always helpful to organise at least one date at your place a week just to make sure you get it clean haha

100% Spinning plates is good motivation to keep your place clean, stay fit, budget well, earn more and take care of yourself in general.

 

[Murakumo]

Good insights, thanks for the thread. I think I'm still quite bad at this whole thing but something I've noticed is that you're expected to make a move on the first date, and that Japanese girls are very quick to ghost/block otherwise. I've had some pleasant first dates where conversation flowed well and the girl seemed to be enjoying herself/laughed a lot but I didn't make a move. When I tried to get them out again they ghosted.

One case in particular was interesting because we kissed but due to bad logistics couldn't quite finish the deal on that day. Tried to schedule another date for the following week but by then the girl wasn't interested anymore. This one was my bad and I'm more careful about logistics these days.

Another case I found interesting was a girl I matched on Bumble back when I was still learning Japanese and was also looking for friends in the area. I made clear from the start that I was looking for people to practice japanese with and all, went on a date with her which was fun but not sexual at all. When I checked my phone after coming back home she'd blocked me.

 

[thegreek]

I think I'm still quite bad at this whole thing but something I've noticed is that you're expected to make a move on the first date, and that Japanese girls are very quick to ghost/block otherwise. I've had some pleasant first dates where conversation flowed well and the girl seemed to be enjoying herself/laughed a lot but I didn't make a move. When I tried to get them out again they ghosted.

Getting ghosted after the first date is discouraging but very common and never fully goes away.

Whether or not you are expected to make a move on the first date very much depends on the girl. Also on other thing such as how you met. App? I would wait until second in most cases. Approach? Probably more expectation from girl and likelihood of success. No hard and fast rules in my XP.

Only other tips I can offer are make sure to not spend too much time, money or effort and try to "dig deeper", as Sinapse puts it, and get to something emotional or insightful in your conversation to build a genuine connection. Save some fun stories, things about yourself for round 2+.

Don't beat yourself up. I've had dates I thought went like a dream only to be ghosted after. Some girls are just good actors and will make you think it is going well even though their attraction is weak. Easy to fall for if your attraction is high.

 

[hamsap]

Good insights, thanks for the thread. I think I'm still quite bad at this whole thing but something I've noticed is that you're expected to make a move on the first date, and that Japanese girls are very quick to ghost/block otherwise. I've had some pleasant first dates where conversation flowed well and the girl seemed to be enjoying herself/laughed a lot but I didn't make a move. When I tried to get them out again they ghosted.

One case in particular was interesting because we kissed but due to bad logistics couldn't quite finish the deal on that day. Tried to schedule another date for the following week but by then the girl wasn't interested anymore. This one was my bad and I'm more careful about logistics these days.

Another case I found interesting was a girl I matched on Bumble back when I was still learning Japanese and was also looking for friends in the area. I made clear from the start that I was looking for people to practice japanese with and all, went on a date with her which was fun but not sexual at all. When I checked my phone after coming back home she'd blocked me.

A lot of times it really isn't your fault too. People just don't vibe sometimes.
I've also had a lot of decent dates with good looking girls where I decided not to follow up just because the vibe wasn't there and it would feel too much like a chore to go further.