Daily WHO Reports for the Coronavirus Outbreak (Link)

[MikeH]

short version: we don’t know

Longer version; we should know before we shoot ourselves in the head.

 

[Frenchy]

No, because young Americans are already fucking idiots and Californians take it to a new level. That said, the real upcoming hotbed of infection on the continent will come from Mexico, where government authorities are doing absolutely NOTHING to combat the virus and all of the malls, restaurants, bars and clubs are open for business as usual. Add to that the fact that Mexico isn't exactly the most sanitary place on earth, nor does it have particularly good medical facilities and even Mexican epidemiologists are predicting a situation worse than Italy coming soon.

I'm not always on the same page as Trump but this time is different. BUILD THAT WALL. KEEP THEM OUT.

Lol! They seem to do better than the US, so far
Hey maybe they will pay for that wall after all , just to not get the bug from north of the Rio Grande
Because of course, the virus will stop at the wall

 

[Frenchy]

Longer version; we should know before we shoot ourselves in the head.

So... lets wait and see?
didnt seem to work so well so far
i like the middle ground: reasonable social distancing , we don’t really need sports events and clubs and hanami picnics after all . But without getting it to lockdown extremes . And too bad if a few elderlies die a few years before their death for other reasons

 

[MikeH]

So... lets wait and see?

I don't really understand how did you manage to read that out of it.

I believe what the guy was saying, and what I was agreeing, was exactly what you proposed; stay reasonable, and try to get better data as soon as possible.

 

[RandomTokyoGuy]

I don't really understand how did you manage to read that out of it.

I believe what the guy was saying, and what I was agreeing, was exactly what you proposed; stay reasonable, and try to get better data as soon as possible.

That is maybe the way you read, but I'm pretty sure the majority will read it more the way @Frenchy spelled it.

He is also representing data in a very questionable way, always refering to the diamond princess as the representative set of data. That is a group of people that have been tested way early and received exceptional medical care.

He then extrapolates this number on a world population not at all taking into account that quality of health system vastly differs among countries etc.

I totally agree with your conclusion, but this professor is just providing ammunition for those who say it's just another flu.

 

[Frenchy]

That is maybe the way you read, but I'm pretty sure the majority will read it more the way @Frenchy spelled it.

He is also representing data in a very questionable way, always refering to the diamond princess as the representative set of data. That is a group of people that have been tested way early and received exceptional medical care.

He then extrapolates this number on a world population not at all taking into account that quality of health system vastly differs among countries etc.

I totally agree with your conclusion, but this professor is just providing ammunition for those who say it's just another flu.

i think we all know by now its not just « another flu ». The real question , and totally un-PC one is : how many lives are we ready to lose so that our economic and social system is not crumbling down?
Because this is really what war is. Except that in a real war we send young male soldiers to the frontline and its socially accepted that many will die

 

[MikeH]

The real question , and totally un-PC one is : how many lives are we ready to lose so that our economic and social system is not crumbling down?

That is the non-PC question all right. As the current stance is we will protect every life no matter the cost, and anyone who questions that is a creep. But that's because politicians main job is to get re-elected, not to think what is good for their countries. And if we put the world to a long lasting recession which then kills people, well, that's a recession, not our fault, right?

 

[Frenchy]

That is the non-PC question all right. As the current stance is we will protect every life no matter the cost, and anyone who questions that is a creep. But that's because politicians main job is to get re-elected, not to think what is good for their countries. And if we put the world to a long lasting recession which then kills people, well, that's a recession, not our fault, right?

well give politicians a pass on this one
Seem to me the perfect example of « damn if you do, damn if you don’t »
In France now some people hate Macron because he ordered the lockdown . Others hate him (even sue his government) because he didn’t do it earlier. Who’s « right »? Does it matter?

 

[MikeH]

I totally agree with your conclusion, but this professor is just providing ammunition for those who say it's just another flu.

He is saying the virus can kill 1% of the infected. Even that is less than WHO estimates that's still TEN times more than the common influenza. So I don't think he is saying it's just another flu.

I think the problem here (not you specifically) is people are not scared enough of the common flu which kills up to million people yearly. And he is saying this could be 10 times worse.

 

[MikeH]

Who’s « right »? Does it matter?

We will know in few years I guess... In general I see this as another example of "we must do something" and a chance for the current governments to act tough. I bet most of them have boners, even the ladies, when they get to order people around. It's the removing of the trash bins in Tokyo after the sarin attack all over again.

If they'd ask me, and I and we all should be grateful they don't, I'd isolate all the risk groups only but completely and try to limit the lives of other people less in order not to fuck up the economy totally.

 

[Frenchy]

We will know in few years I guess... In general I see this as another example of "we must do something" and a chance for the current governments to act tough. I bet most of them have boners, even the ladies, when they get to order people around. It's the removing of the trash bins in Tokyo after the sarin attack all over again.

If they'd ask me, and I and we all should be grateful they don't, I'd isolate all the risk groups only but completely and try to limit the lives of other people less in order not to fuck up the economy totally.

i agree (yeah it happens sometimes, light a candle or get a boner too)

 

[MikeH]

i agree (yeah it happens sometimes, light a candle or get a boner too)

We should get a room and do that together to commemorate this rare happening. But alas, the social distancing prevents it.

And I meant lighting the candle of course, you pervs!

 

[RandomTokyoGuy]

i think we all know by now its not just « another flu ». The real question , and totally un-PC one is : how many lives are we ready to lose so that our economic and social system is not crumbling down?
Because this is really what war is. Except that in a real war we send young male soldiers to the frontline and its socially accepted that many will die

I don't think that's socially accepted anymore, actually since quite a long time. That's why all those international missions are tried to be sold as inevitable but near risk free.

He is saying the virus can kill 1% of the infected. Even that is less than WHO estimates that's still TEN times more than the common influenza. So I don't think he is saying it's just another flu.

I think the problem here (not you specifically) is people are not scared enough of the common flu which kills up to million people yearly. And he is saying this could be 10 times worse.

One thing about common flu is that there is a vaccine and treatment available. Where I come from the vaccine is mandatory for health staff. Flu spreading among hospital staff therefore is very rare.

I don't say he has any bad intentions, but he is an academic and writing like one (and I think his opinion could also be challenged at some points). When the audience are non academics and especially nowadays, where things are often quoted out of context or in a condensed version, this will be read differently. Suddenly it becomes the professor from Stanford who said it would be better to have the virus run it's cause and quickly if possible.

 

[Frenchy]

I don't think that's socially accepted anymore, actually since quite a long time. That's why all those international missions are tried to be inevitable but near risk free.



One thing about common flu is that there is a vaccine and treatment available. Where I come from the vaccine is mandatory for health staff. Flu spreading among hospital staff therefore is very rare.

I don't say he has any bad intentions, but he is an academic and writing like one (and I think his opinion could also be challenged at some points). When the audience are non academics and especially nowadays, where things are often quoted out of context or in a condensed version, this will be read differently. Suddenly it becomes the professor from Stanford who said it would be better to have the virus run it's cause and quickly if possible.

the problem is this « it would be better » part
Coz this is a matter of subjective judgment, not science . Better for what? Who? On which moral ground? Thats the tough discussion we don’t have in western countries now

 

[MikeH]

Thats the tough discussion we don’t have in western countries now

Indeed, it's not we don't have the answers, it's we don't even have the discussion. And that's with everything now, isn't it; there is just one truth about everything and anyone who tries to discuss it is stamped almost a criminal.

It must be this damned internet, in my youth we only had the pigeons so spreading information was so much slower and better. And idiots like me didn't even have even pigeons cos we ate them so nobody got to know what we were thinking, which can be just a good thing.

 

[Frenchy]

We should get a room and do that together to commemorate this rare happening. But alas, the social distancing prevents it.

And I meant lighting the candle of course, you pervs!

of course , and im 100% certain it happens to you much less often than a boner

 

[bergmann]

First thing is to get a haircut while that kind of thing is still permitted.

Hair cut, the copocalypse may commence.

 

[Keihan]

The real question, in my opinion, is whether the collective world will stand together and hold the Chinese accountable for the tens of trillions of dollars and irreparable damage they've cost and caused the rest of the world with this latest plague. They invented it, they accidentally unleashed it, they covered it up and lied about it and then let thousands of their infected citizens go traipsing all over the globe.

Reality is, probably not. You've got most of Europe kissing China's ass now just for the free masks and medicine they're sending over, purely as a P.R. stunt. I can hope that Trump and his admin back up their words by punishing China for this but the geopolitical reality is that he'll need to balance the public reaction to such a move with contrasting measures to work out a trade deal once this pandemic is over. After all, it's an election year.

I've said it many times and I'm not sorry, the U.S. should've let the Imperial Japanese wipe out China before jumping into WWII. Then we could've come in, nuked the same two cities and the entire Middle Kingdom would be one giant American military base and R&R paradise for horny 19yo jarheads. Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[TAG Manager]

They invented it, they accidentally unleashed it, they covered it up and lied about it and then let thousands of their infected citizens go traipsing all over the globe.

It may have started in China but various sources are saying the genetic makeup of the virus isn't man made, but natural evolution.

 

[Frenchy]

It may have started in China but various sources are saying the genetic makeup of the virus isn't man made, but natural evolution.

Yeah . Lets nuke all bats . And then tornadoes too (not my idea)

 

[Sudsy]

It may have started in China but various sources are saying the genetic makeup of the virus isn't man made, but natural evolution.

That's solid science - the virus' abilities are all previously observed in other strains, and bear no hallmarks of being engineered.

But the Chinese government and the CCP (to be fair, one and the same) are still responsible. They allowed the wet market conditions to continue - even after SARS was tracked back to wild animals sold in wet market conditions. The bush meat trade in the wet markets is also a result of failed Maoist food policies during the Great Leap Forward. Prior to that disaster, bush meat consumption in China was relegated to farmers and other rural dwellers, and didn't involve multiple species in stacked cages bleeding, defecating, and urinating all over each other. They also bear responsibility for knowingly letting their citizens travel abroad during what was at the time a local epidemic.

But to be fair, the USA also shoulders a great deal of the responsibility for cutting the funding and positions of their embedded teams within China who were tasked with watching for another SARS-type outbreak, the only international oversight that was present in the region.

 

[namae]

We will know in few years I guess... In general I see this as another example of "we must do something" and a chance for the current governments to act tough. I bet most of them have boners, even the ladies, when they get to order people around. It's the removing of the trash bins in Tokyo after the sarin attack all over again.

If they'd ask me, and I and we all should be grateful they don't, I'd isolate all the risk groups only but completely and try to limit the lives of other people less in order not to fuck up the economy totally.

Yeah, that is the way to go.

Do we repeat this whole exercise next January when covid-19 returns? when covid-20 emerges?

 

[namae]

The real question, in my opinion, is whether the collective world will stand together and hold the Chinese accountable for the tens of trillions of dollars and irreparable damage they've cost and caused the rest of the world with this latest plague. They invented it, they accidentally unleashed it, they covered it up and lied about it and then let thousands of their infected citizens go traipsing all over the globe.

The best we can hope for is a total ban on international and domestic wildlife trade, and China lifting it's game on public health and hygiene standards.

But we will be lucky if we get that much.

 

[Frenchy]

The best we can hope for is a total ban on international and domestic wildlife trade, and China lifting it's game on public health and hygiene standards.

But we will be lucky if we get that much.

or we nuke em. And their bats

 

[just4fun]

Meh.........all that lives is gonna die. Just another way.