How much sexual attraction do you need to start a relationship that you know can only be serious?

[Des Esseintes]

It's all in the title. If you know that - for whatever reason (in my case, having known each other for a long time plus lots of common friends) - once you've had sex there's no going back, how much sexual attraction do you need before you take the plunge? Does it have to be like irresistible or just sort of, "why not?" would be enough for you? - knowing that beyond that you have tons in common and enjoy spending time together.

 

[User#8628]

Depends on if there are other reasons to want a relationship with them than sexual attaction. You do mention having a lot in common but if its only that you might as well stay friends. So in case i wouldn't assume that we could get more out of the relation (being soulmates, knowing they would be a good partner to settle down with...), there would have to be quite a lot of sexual attraction for me. Kind of, "hard to look at them and keep my hands off them" physical attraction.

 

[Frenchy]

A lot. But strangely enough the lady with whom I felt it the most was not so young and not so attractive by usual standards. We are kinda "just friends" now but when we meet the chemistry is still here and I just want to get inside her like when we met the first time. Sexual attraction is not just about looks.

 

[Des Esseintes]

Depends on if there are other reasons to want a relationship with them than sexual attaction. You do mention having a lot in common but if its only that you might as well stay friends. So in case i wouldn't assume that we could get more out of the relation (being soulmates, knowing they would be a good partner to settle down with...), there would have to be quite a lot of sexual attraction for me. Kind of, "hard to look at them and keep my hands off them" physical attraction.

I don't remember ever experiencing that level of attraction in my whole life so maybe there's something wrong with me on that level. The problem is that the type of relation that would be ideal for me would be kinda halfway between friendship and a real relationship (like being able to sleep together, going on trips, displaying physical affection that stops short of actual sex) while limiting the sex to people I don't really have feelings for. But I have never met a woman who would be interested in such a relationship so I'm unsure whether staying friends or starting a relationship would be closer to what I want.

The reasons to start a relationship would also be that if I don't, she's going to look for someone else and we will no longer be able to spend time together. She's a very open, very liberal European girl and I usually only meet super uptight ultra conservative girls focused on their tight little world, as Japanese girls tend to be, and when I start a relationship with them I have to hide some of my true opinions or the reality of my past relations and sex life, so I suppose it would also feel good to be able to be in a relationship where you can truly be yourself.

 

[User#8628]

I don't remember ever experiencing that level of attraction in my whole life so maybe there's something wrong with me on that level. The problem is that the type of relation that would be ideal for me would be kinda halfway between friendship and a real relationship (like being able to sleep together, going on trips, displaying physical affection that stops short of actual sex) while limiting the sex to people I don't really have feelings for. But I have never met a woman who would be interested in such a relationship so I'm unsure whether staying friends or starting a relationship would be closer to what I want.

The reasons to start a relationship would also be that if I don't, she's going to look for someone else and we will no longer be able to spend time together. She's a very open, very liberal European girl and I usually only meet super uptight ultra conservative girls focused on their tight little world, as Japanese girls tend to be, and when I start a relationship with them I have to hide some of my true opinions or the reality of my past relations and sex life, so I suppose it would also feel good to be able to be in a relationship where you can truly be yourself.

That is indeed a strange kind of relationship you are looking for and i've never heard of one like that before. So your ideal would be to NOT have sex with your life partner, but to have sex with people outside of the relationship?
I think that there are definitely women who can agree on the open relationship part, and in couples who have been married long time it can be normal to not have sex anymore and to either secretly or openly sleep with other people but still do friendship things together with your partner. But indeed, i cant imagine a girl agreeing to never have sex with you if she is your partner. I think most girls would feel rejected. I do think you mentioned dating asexual girls in another post, and i figure think kind of relationship might work for some asexual people but i dont know much about them and really cant imagine what its like to be asexual, hahaha.
Difficult situation.

Yes, if you are scared to lose her if she gets a boyfriend, your feelings might be strong enough to be worth starting to date her... but i also get that if it goes wrong, you lose your friendship with her. Hm.
Do you think you would let her down if she wants sex? (Having some performance issues, not enjoying it yourself..)

 

[Des Esseintes]

I have no problem with having sex with her initially, it's just that I know it's bound to change the relationship and that might be for the worse because in all my previous relationships I tended to grow tired of it long before my partner did, like maybe after a couple of months. So I've never had a relationship that lasted longer than a few months. And I don't see why it would be different this time, and yet there's always the temptation to think that somehow it might indeed work. Every relationship I've ever been in there was moderate attraction at first, then attraction increased a little after the first few times when it starts to "click" in terms of mutual enjoyment, then there's the feeling that there won't be anything radically different and that's followed by a slow decline until I really don't want to do it anymore. I know that physically I could still do it even if I don't want to because I've done it with women I was absolutely not attracted to quite a few times, but in the case of a serious relationship somehow it makes me feel bad both for her and for me.

Since I have never experienced any other pattern, I have no idea how it goes for people who have relationships that "work". Do they start on a high then it gradually goes down after a sort of "plateau" phase of variable length, without falling into the "really sick of it" stage that mine tend to end up in? Or can it start at a somewhat lower level then gradually build up? I know there's probably no definite rule...

On the other hand maybe the fact that there might be a stronger affective bond this time would make the phase when attraction starts to decrease more bearable?

The asexual girl I mentioned - I'm impressed by your memory - would have been perfect except that there was no chemistry and she wanted an exclusive - though sexless - relationship. I need to have sex from time to time.

 

[User#6517]

I never really plan on finding a long-term, serious partner. I just go with the flow.

When it comes to sexual attraction, I couldn’t care less what his body looks like. He can look like Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory or he can look like Baymax. He’s got to have a handsome face, though. That’s something very important to me. I also need him to have good hygiene, be funny (but not trying too hard), confident (but not cocky), and preferably boujee.

But I think I’d rather focus on the quality of sex in order to decide if this is someone I want to continue dating. If they aren’t generous in the bedroom (for example, I give him oral but he wouldn’t do the same), or if they lack passion, I’d forget about it. I’ve tried to stay in a one-sided relationship like that before, and I never felt satisfied sexually.

However, I’m saying these things as a sexworker. Sex is not this sacred thing to me, as it might be for other people.

In your case, I honestly think that you are a demisexual person and that you should look for someone who is either the same or who can adjust to it. It’s not that crazy for me to think that you require good chemistry in order to be sexual with someone. I’m sure if someone is really into you, she would understand and respect that.

 

[Des Esseintes]

I often wonder whether I should give up on finding a long-term relationship because it could be that it's simply not for me but 1. it's not always easy to find new people all the time and 2. I'm entering my late 30's now so it's not gonna get any easier.

 

[User#8628]

I have no problem with having sex with her initially, it's just that I know it's bound to change the relationship and that might be for the worse because in all my previous relationships I tended to grow tired of it long before my partner did, like maybe after a couple of months. So I've never had a relationship that lasted longer than a few months. And I don't see why it would be different this time, and yet there's always the temptation to think that somehow it might indeed work. Every relationship I've ever been in there was moderate attraction at first, then attraction increased a little after the first few times when it starts to "click" in terms of mutual enjoyment, then there's the feeling that there won't be anything radically different and that's followed by a slow decline until I really don't want to do it anymore. I know that physically I could still do it even if I don't want to because I've done it with women I was absolutely not attracted to quite a few times, but in the case of a serious relationship somehow it makes me feel bad both for her and for me.

Since I have never experienced any other pattern, I have no idea how it goes for people who have relationships that "work". Do they start on a high then it gradually goes down after a sort of "plateau" phase of variable length, without falling into the "really sick of it" stage that mine tend to end up in? Or can it start at a somewhat lower level then gradually build up? I know there's probably no definite rule...

On the other hand maybe the fact that there might be a stronger affective bond this time would make the phase when attraction starts to decrease more bearable?

The asexual girl I mentioned - I'm impressed by your memory - would have been perfect except that there was no chemistry and she wanted an exclusive - though sexless - relationship. I need to have sex from time to time.

Interesting how many different kind of people there are.
Well, if you think that things will always be going like this, you can either just let it happen or stay forever alone... plus you think you'll lose her as a friend if she gets a boyfriend... so maybe better to try it?
It could be that having a strong emotional bond with her will make it easier to keep having sex in the long run.

I cant say i've ever grown "tired" of having sex with a boyfriend or not wanting sex anymore at all after a while. Definitely, after being in a relationship for a while the sex gets less and less and also finishes faster when it happens, but for me that has always been because of being tired from things i have been doing during the day, not because sex with them was not interesting for me anymore.
It was still good and i was still down for it. Now i've never experienced a 10+ years marriage or something so i wouldn't know about that, but i havent gotten tired of having sex with a partner after only a few months.

 

[User#6517]

I often wonder whether I should give up on finding a long-term relationship because it could be that it's simply not for me but 1. it's not always easy to find new people all the time and 2. I'm entering my late 30's now so it's not gonna get any easier.

May I ask where you’re meeting these women at? Because it may be the location, not you.

If you are going to clubs, bars, or nighttime events to meet women, they might already expect you to be someone who’s looking for fun. I really think that a lot of women value a man who can wait a while before having sex. Not to me because I’m desensitized to the idea of sex, but they might see you as someone more genuine than say, a guy who wants to sleep with them on the same night or who’s only using them for sex.

I really wouldn’t want you to give up on finding romance because it seems like you’d really appreciate a partner, but maybe stop looking for it and don’t put all of your time and energy into it? Just be yourself and go with the flow

 

[Des Esseintes]

May I ask where you’re meeting these women at? Because it may be the location, not you.

If you are going to clubs, bars, or nighttime events to meet women, they might already expect you to be someone who’s looking for fun. I really think that a lot of women value a man who can wait a while before having sex. Not to me because I’m desensitized to the idea of sex, but they might see you as someone more genuine than say, a guy who wants to sleep with them on the same night or who’s only using them for sex.

I really wouldn’t want you to give up on finding romance because it seems like you’d really appreciate a partner, but maybe stop looking for it and don’t put all of your time and energy into it? My best relationships started when I wasn’t looking for someone to date.

Mostly dating apps because I don't really feel like going out by myself and none of my friends are looking for someone. I know dating apps are the worst but in Japan my options are limited...
Except this time, I wasn't looking for anyone, it just happened, like you describe.

I'm tempted to think age also plays a part... I think in my teens and twenties I had stronger attractions but since I had no self-esteem and couldn't be bothered with the whole process of dating, seduction and all that, I always ended up with whatever girl or guy I could pick up in a club or bar rather the people I was most attracted to. Maybe I missed on the years when desire is at its strongest... I always feel incredibly sad when I watch those "coming of age" movies because I feel like they depict passion and attraction in a way that can only be experienced below a certain age. Or maybe only by people other than me.

 

[MikeH]

But I think I’d rather focus on the quality of sex in order to decide if this is someone I want to continue dating. If they aren’t generous in the bedroom (for example, I give him oral but he wouldn’t do the same),

Well, quality is good but quantity is needed. And I have had exactly one girl to tell me that by the way she won't do oral (she happened to remember that while I was going down on her) and it took me around 10 minutes to leave and never come back. And that long only because I needed to find my underwear first.

I often wonder whether I should give up on finding a long-term relationship because it could be that it's simply not for me but 1. it's not always easy to find new people all the time and 2. I'm entering my late 30's now so it's not gonna get any easier.

Finding long term partners actually gets easier when you get older. First your age range of girls grows as you get older and you also know and accept yourself better which leads to the girls accepting you more.

Though if you are looking for a monogamous relationship then it might be different as pretty much every girl already has someone.

 

[Des Esseintes]

Finding long term partners actually gets easier when you get older. First your age range of girls grows as you get older and you also know and accept yourself better which leads to the girls accepting you more.

Though if you are looking for a monogamous relationship then it might be different as pretty much every girl already has someone.

As I wrote earlier, I would rather NOT have a monogamous relationship but I wonder where you guys manage to find all those sexed-up non-monogamous girls because I've only met one in my six years here. My only relationship with a married woman and it didn't last long!

 

[MikeH]

I wonder where you guys manage to find all those sexed-up non-monogamous girls because I've only met one in my six years here.

Nobody said it is easy but "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find". There are many web sites, applications and even the dreaded old style way of going outside and meeting people in bars, parks, happenings and hobbies.

You just need to find the way you like doing because if you try something that you don't feel comfortable it feels like work and also shows thus making your chances smaller.

 

[User#6517]

Mostly dating apps because I don't really feel like going out by myself and none of my friends are looking for someone. I know dating apps are the worst but in Japan my options are limited...
Except this time, I wasn't looking for anyone, it just happened, like you describe.

I'm tempted to think age also plays a part... I think in my teens and twenties I had stronger attractions but since I had no self-esteem and couldn't be bothered with the whole process of dating, seduction and all that, I always ended up with whatever girl or guy I could pick up in a club or bar rather the people I was most attracted to. Maybe I missed on the years when desire is at its strongest... I always feel incredibly sad when I watch those "coming of age" movies because I feel like they depict passion and attraction in a way that can only be experienced below a certain age. Or maybe only by people other than me.

I know that I’m very young compared to most people on this board, and correct me if I’m wrong, but I always thought that older people had an easier time finding the right partner. They might be more experienced in dating and can know exactly what they want.

When you’re young, sometimes you’re not realistic and you set so many standards that it turns away a lot of potential dates that you may actually like, or you accept anyone because you haven’t built your confidence or self-esteem yet. As you become older, you could have a better, realistic view on love/romance.

I understand how the idea of lovey-dovey relationships can be attractive, but personally, I don’t think it’s healthy because it’s not very realistic in the long-run. There will be times when you’ll get mad at your partner, and times where your partner will hurt you emotionally, whether intentional or not. I’m not saying that these relationships don’t exist, but I imagine that they’d be so hard to maintain because they would try too hard to keep it perfect.

One of the best things about dating is that you can just relax and enjoy it. Take your time to feel comfortable with that person. If you don’t want to waste your time, you can always multi-date as well. Try having dinner/drinks with at least 3-5 people every week if your schedule is flexible.

Oh, and if you feel the most comfortable with dating apps and haven’t tried it yet, OkCupid might be your best bet. From what other TAG users have said, it seems like the people there aren’t trying to look for a one night stand. I don’t know if Coffee Meets Bagel is popular in Japan, but it’s supposed to be an app focusing more on women who are looking for meaningful relationships. You could also try Meetup.com for events at any time of the day if you’re willing to give it a try.

 

[jhingy567]

Don't really have much experience with relationships, but sometimes I ask myself these questions. For me, I think only very little sexual attraction is required - im in the "why not" category. Though I'm young, I've learnt to lower my standards as well since people have so much more to offer than their looks anyway. I'm of the view that sexual attraction is something which can actually develop over time - with a person you relate well with and enjoy being around.

I often hear from older family/relatives, "jhingy567, you've got a job and you're ready to find a wife now. XYZ's daughter is around your age etc etc".
Sometimes they also show me some pics which I find sexually attractive, but I would not consider dating (let alone marrying) her because I know we'd not be a good match. Now I wouldn't mind sex with them without the relationship aspect (NSA), but this doesn't seem so common with most girls I meet. (Another reason why escorts are convenient)
So in other words, 'sexual attraction' is not really an issue for me. It's more the other stuff like matching personality and values which are the main prerequisites for a relationship.

 

[Des Esseintes]

I know that I’m very young compared to most people on this board, and correct me if I’m wrong, but I always thought that older people had an easier time finding the right partner. They might be more experienced in dating and can know exactly what they want.

When you’re young, sometimes you’re not realistic and you set so many standards that it turns away a lot of potential dates that you may actually like, or you accept anyone because you haven’t built your confidence or self-esteem yet. As you become older, you could have a better, realistic view on love/romance.

Yes but I'm actually the opposite because when I was in my 20's I didn't date I just met people and for the most part had sex with whoever was ok to do it with me. Then got tired of all that and lived like a recluse for two years in the middle of nowhere. Then came to Japan so no previous experience in dating if by dating you mean meeting someone over dinner for the express purpose of finding a partner.
So I only started that in the very weird context of being in a country without initially speaking the language (and strangely enough I was more successful when I didn't speak it).

So probably harder for me even though I'm older because my standards are actually higher (not crazy higher but no longer "anyone's ok" the way it used to be when I was younger) and I'm not much more experienced in terms of normal "healthy" relationships cos' all the ones I've had so far in Japan were pretty much rotten to the core (by money, insanity, sexual trauma you name it).

 

[User#6517]

Yes but I'm actually the opposite because when I was in my 20's I didn't date I just met people and for the most part had sex with whoever was ok to do it with me. Then got tired of all that and lived like a recluse for two years in the middle of nowhere. Then came to Japan so no previous experience in dating if by dating you mean meeting someone over dinner for the express purpose of finding a partner.
So I only started that in the very weird context of being in a country without initially speaking the language (and strangely enough I was more successful when I didn't speak it).

So probably harder for me even though I'm older because my standards are actually higher (not crazy higher but no longer "anyone's ok" the way it used to be when I was younger) and I'm not much more experienced in terms of normal "healthy" relationships cos' all the ones I've had so far in Japan were pretty much rotten to the core (by money, insanity, sexual trauma you name it).

I actually think it’s great that you’ve become more selective. It’s a sign that you value yourself more, and that’s an attractive quality.

Relationships can be tricky, and there are so many factors to consider in order to make them work, but you’ve had some experiences at least. With trial and error, you could be getting closer to the goal and not realize it yet.

From your posts, you seem like a nice, normal guy. I wouldn’t worry too much about finding a good partner if I were you.

 

[Frenchy]

Mostly dating apps because I don't really feel like going out by myself and none of my friends are looking for someone. I know dating apps are the worst but in Japan my options are limited...
Except this time, I wasn't looking for anyone, it just happened, like you describe.

I'm tempted to think age also plays a part... I think in my teens and twenties I had stronger attractions but since I had no self-esteem and couldn't be bothered with the whole process of dating, seduction and all that, I always ended up with whatever girl or guy I could pick up in a club or bar rather the people I was most attracted to. Maybe I missed on the years when desire is at its strongest... I always feel incredibly sad when I watch those "coming of age" movies because I feel like they depict passion and attraction in a way that can only be experienced below a certain age. Or maybe only by people other than me.

The last point : thats Hollywood BS. Or maybe there are movies about passion at a later age too but they are not as successful. In any case passion is possible at any age, in my opinion and experience. But be careful what you wish for...

 

[Des Esseintes]

The last point : thats Hollywood BS. Or maybe there are movies about passion at a later age too but they are not as successful. In any case passion is possible at any age, in my opinion and experience. But be careful what you wish for...

I mostly don't watch Hollywood BS so I'm mostly not thinking of contemporary American films because even though I'm aware of them, it's not my culture. I'm not talking about the everything's rosy and all type of films, just the fact that all your feelings, emotions (including the negative ones) are so much rawer and more intense when you're younger. Including the sadness of being dumped - nowadays I get dumped, all I feel is I'm slightly angry. There's a sort of numbness that sets in and inevitably I think you can't expect to be as attracted to someone as you used to be. So inevitably not having acted upon those feelings and attractions when I was younger somehow I feel like I might have crippled myself emotionally-speaking. Like I'm incapable of feeling as strongly about people as I do about music, literature and arts.

For example I watched Blue is the Warmest Color with my previous girlfriend - she's bisexual and could only watch the censored version available in Japan and I happen to have the French version so she wanted to see it again with all the sex in it. My ex was 24. Some people commented that the sex scenes are not realistic and all that and I can't really comment because I've never seen two women having sex together. If you haven't seen it, it's full of close-ups of the faces, skin, including without make-up, which to me created the sense of a real relationship because you get to know the skin the way it's not normally shown in movies and the way you can only know it by being intimate with someone and waking up next to them. The second part of the film is all about after the breakup of that girl's first true relationship and even though my ex-girlfriend loved that film perhaps more than I did, she was not as moved by it as I was and after giving it some thought, I figured that what moved me in it was not so much the memory of being completely, utterly devastated (which happened to me only once when I was 24), but the knowledge that such intensity in complete, utter sadness (and its corollary) could and would never be replicated. It dawned on me in such a perfect and clear way in the midst of years and years of feeling basically completely numb. I'm pretty sure my ex just thought it was sad because a breakup is sad.

Sorry for such a self-indulgent post!

 

[User#8628]

Finding long term partners actually gets easier when you get older. First your age range of girls grows as you get older and you also know and accept yourself better which leads to the girls accepting you more.

Though if you are looking for a monogamous relationship then it might be different as pretty much every girl already has someone.

I do think getting a serious girlfriend may really be easier for guys the older they get.
Women in their 30s will be want to settle.

Then women in their 40s, 50s and 60s... you say everyone already has someone but divorce rates are getting higher and higher. Those women think that nobody will want them anymore and that men will try to go for someone much younger... so they are eager to meet someone who wants a serious relationship.

 

[Des Esseintes]

I do think getting a serious girlfriend may really be easier for guys the older they get.
Women in their 30s will be want to settle.

Yes but there's the added difficulty that most women at that age want to have kids and if you don't then you're limited to that very small percentage of women who don't, which, from the statistics I have seen is well below 5%. There's also the problem of marriage which is not as severe with younger women.

 

[vondoom]

i dont think it is age related at all... for me, if i like someone im usually attracted to them... otherwise i dont think it will work out... wether im attracted because i like them or like them because i am attracted, no idea... its not important anyway... attraction comes naturally i think...

i also think that the older you get the harder it gets since everyone has a partner already... on the other hand it was the same for over ten years now...
the one i like now is fortunately single...

 

[Des Esseintes]

i dont think it is age related at all... for me, if i like someone im usually attracted to them...

I can experience three types of attractions: intellectual, affective and physical. They almost never coincide.

 

[vondoom]

hmm never thought about that... im usually very satisfied with the ones i am attracted to... still never works out though and is not getting better...

in case you dont feel any sexual attraction, do you start the relationship then? or what happens if she isnt sexually attracted (to you or in general)?