Japan and (im)modesty

[requiemmorrow]

Just got on the train and noticed a lot of skin in my peripheral vision. Turned my head and saw three young Japanese ladies with midriffs showing and torn jeans.

One of them is clearly feeling a bit shy as she is blocking showing her midsection. The other two are flaunting their flat stomachs and a little cleavage with some pride while they bantered away about some Korean boy band.

A couple of ojisans were sneaking peeks at them as well, as were there some disapproving stares of okaasans and obaasans in their societally approved flowery dresses and whatnot to cover themselves up. And this isn’t the first time I’ve seen it, and it has become more and more prevalent every year I continue to live here.

It just had me thinking of other places I’ve lived and the sheer contrast in “modesty.” When I lived in Miami, I remember distinctly walking around a college campus and seeing girls with short cut jeans and sometimes straight up swimsuits, at times revealing parts of the genitalia or not covering up enough. And this was completely normal, acceptable attire (I was never able to walk around without a hand in my pocket though.)

Then there was a trip to Isola d’Ischia where the women were as modest as the Japanese…yet a short boat ride to Capri and practically everyone was naked.

I guess I just want to ask: What do you guys think will happen with Japan and its modesty mores moving forward? Underneath all that tatemae, do you think Japanese want to be modest in the end?

 

[TAG Manager]

Turned my head and saw three young Japanese ladies with midriffs showing and torn jeans.

Nothing new. It comes and goes... and possibly depending on where you are.

Underneath all that tatemae, do you think Japanese want to be modest in the end?

I think it's a progression of age and the majority follow the ingrained rules that they've experienced since birth. A small percentage will be the outliers and eventually the outcasts from normal societal groups.

 

[requiemmorrow]

Nothing new. It comes and goes... and possibly depending on where you are.

I agree it’s nothing new, but the younger generation is definitely getting more and more audacious.

My girl is as modest as they come, and she was flapping her arms around the other day saying she wished she could go outside with her midriff and boobs hanging out and feel sexy. She looks great for her ahe (mid 30s) and I think she should do whatever the hell she wants. But in the end she cowers and says, “but this is Japan—I can’t do that” and proceeded to cover up as usual.

If she were with me on the train today I would have been hearing about those three girls all day.

 

[Maxblack]

When I first moved here literally decades ago, bellybutton piercings and single bra straps was a thing.
So ALL the girls walked around with exposed midriff and off shoulder tops with one bra strap switched out for a transparent plastic strap.
Loose socks too.
Good. Times.

 

[Alice]

I agree it’s nothing new, but the younger generation is definitely getting more and more audacious.

I think the younger generation is quite conservative.
Gyaru used to be the norm for people my age and a bit older, so it was much more revealing and sexy. A lot of young girls nowadays prefer maxi dresses and modest clothes. Also the main subculture is probably jirai Kei now which is not overly revealing.
I know the type of jeans you are talking about but I think that’s still a minority of the young people who wear is and mostly people who are into Korean stuff indeed (although I guess most young kids are nowadays, Japan hasn’t really produced much good music and fashion recently sadly and young people don’t even bother with the local stuff anymore). Anyway I could say young people in Japan are more conservative and more into oversized and maxi clothes than in my own young.

 

[Danbo]

I wouldn't say that Japan is in general more modest than other countries, it is just different. Sure, girls don't show cleavage/shoulders/bellies......but I remember the first few times I came to Japan I was baffled how much legs the girls were showing and how short some skirts were. In most modern countries the majority of girls wears trousers nowadays, so Japan is quite the opposite when it come to the lower half.

Like others have pointed out it comes and goes anyway. It's not a oneway street where fashion gets progressively more and more revealing. I think globally there is a trend that younger generations are maybe more liberal, but also a lot more prude....less sex, less drugs, less alcohol, less partying,... this for sure also has an effect on fashion choices.

 

[requiemmorrow]

I wouldn't say that Japan is in general more modest than other countries, it is just different. S

Knowing what country you are from I am shocked to hear this. Also I can see you haven’t been to South Florida where pussy sways in the wind as much as the palm trees.

 

[Danbo]

Knowing what country you are from I am shocked to hear this. Also I can see you haven’t been to South Florida where pussy sways in the wind as much as the palm trees.

Yeah, have only been to the US once for a short vacation on the west coast, not long enough to really have an understanding what's going on. The US always seems like a country of absolute extremes that you find nowhere else ....all other countries pale in comparison to this insanity😅

 

[Durg50]

If you’ve got it flaunt it! A flat midriff is a beautiful thing that few can achieve.

 

[MrDuBois]

Not the first time I heard or read this but just can not wrap my head around.

Women - or people in general - are much better dressed, on average, in Japan than in Germany for example. It has it's positives and negatives but even in smaller cities in Japan, I'd say people knew how to look well put together. Sure, you can meme about the fact that a lot of them are walking Uniqlo/G.U. mannequins but at least they're presentable mannequins. Meanwhile over where I am now, people dress like slobs in combination with them being fat.

Also, I am pretty sure K-Pop or just Korea in general has had a big influence on Japan in the past ~5 years (from what I gathered, at least) in terms of fashion. And it's all long-sleeves, oversized stuff. Moe hasn't really been that big of a thing in J-Pop lately either because once again, K-pop exists and everyone just tries to copy it. Plus, J-Pop =/= otaku.

I don't really see it the modesty thing changing any time soon... Occasionally I get videos on Youtube recommended where young Japanese people get interviewed on all sorts of stuff and it's actually bizarre how conservative they are. Everyone on the internet wants to make you believe that the Japanese youth is totally different from the old guard but nah, they're mostly the same. I think the whole "shame" thing is so deeply rooted into Japanese culture and history that it will be difficult to change any time soon.

 

[Cinnabums]

Too old too cold!

Definitely less modesty in my mothercountry but also less self awareness, don't wear sexy if you aren't!

I imagine US is the same when it comes to self awareness, there's reasons why you never see Cinnabums in muscleshirts.

 

[TAG Manager]

I imagine US is the same when it comes to self awareness, there's reasons why you never see Cinnabums in muscleshirts.

Sir, I urge you to drive yourself on over to PeopleOfWalmart. Let me just remind anyone who clicks on that link, you're about to see the worst of the worst. (There's an actual PoW site, but it's heavily laden with ads and poor performance overall.)

 

[Danbo]

Women - or people in general - are much better dressed, on average, in Japan than in Germany for example. It has it's positives and negatives but even in smaller cities in Japan, I'd say people knew how to look well put together. Sure, you can meme about the fact that a lot of them are walking Uniqlo/G.U. mannequins but at least they're presentable mannequins. Meanwhile over where I am now, people dress like slobs in combination with them being fat.

Also, I am pretty sure K-Pop or just Korea in general has had a big influence on Japan in the past ~5 years (from what I gathered, at least) in terms of fashion. And it's all long-sleeves, oversized stuff. Moe hasn't really been that big of a thing in J-Pop lately either because once again, K-pop exists and everyone just tries to copy it. Plus, J-Pop =/= otaku.

I was kinda disappointed when I went to Seoul last fall....expected it to be interesting when it comes to fashion, but the Uniqulo-mannequin syndrome was even more dominant. Plain trousers and t-shirts everywhere. Have to admit the guys looked a lot better in average than in Japan, but in general I found it to be surprisingly boring when it comes to clothing/styles.

Sure, Tokyo is very special and fashion forward in comparison to other Japanese cities and people dress noticeably better and diverse.....I just expected something similar in Koreas biggest metropolis. Not really 🤷‍♂️

 

[Sudsy]

Live here long enough and you’ll see it cycle back and forth. Bare midriffs have been coming and going since the 80s. So have microskirts, off the shoulder tops, and all sorts of other revealing clothing. Tube tops made a brief appearance once or twice.

One thing that never changes is that most of the young women in revealing clothes changed their outfit at the station, and they will change back in to conservative wear before they go home to their parents.

 

[MikeH]

If you’ve got it flaunt it! A flat midriff is a beautiful thing that few can achieve.

Yeah but the problem is they do flaunt it even when they don't have it. Back in the good ol' Europe you see young girls with bellies bigger than mine in those tiny revealing skirts and shirts.

Well, positive point is you save on p4p as after seeing those you have no will nor ability to get it up.

 

[MikeH]

I was kinda disappointed when I went to Seoul last fall....

I am blaming it on covid. Before that I thought Seoul girls were good looking and dressed well, after it does seem everyone just stayed at home and now they are still using t-shirts and sweat pants when they go out.

 

[sensene]

I'll be going to Seoul in Late June-Early July and probably Busan after my Japan trip so I'll see if maybe there's been a change now.

And Cinnabums is pretty much correct on his assumption there. Lots of misguided confidence or just lack of awareness. Haven't been to all the states yet so I can't say if some are different. 🤷‍♂️

 

[sensene]

Sounds about right.

 

[Sudsy]

Point of order: the term “pig” is generally reserved for the kind of man that would use that term to refer to a woman.

 

[requiemmorrow]

I do have to agree with points in this thread about Korean fashion though. Recently I have been utterly obsessed with Lee Da Hye from the Kia Tigers.


Look at that body move…

Even funnier is when watching her YouTube videos you can see where people are watching the most and it is ALWAYS a point where her booty or boobs are shaking. 😂

 

[Cinnabums]

I do have to agree with points in this thread about Korean fashion though. Recently I have been utterly obsessed with Lee Da Hye from the Kia Tigers.


Look at that body move…

Even funnier is when watching her YouTube videos you can see where people are watching the most and it is ALWAYS a point where her booty or boobs are shaking. 😂

I'll do her!

 

[Alice]

I wouldn't say that Japan is in general more modest than other countries, it is just different. Sure, girls don't show cleavage/shoulders/bellies......but I remember the first few times I came to Japan I was baffled how much legs the girls were showing and how short some skirts were. In most modern countries the majority of girls wears trousers nowadays, so Japan is quite the opposite when it come to the lower half.

Like others have pointed out it comes and goes anyway. It's not a oneway street where fashion gets progressively more and more revealing. I think globally there is a trend that younger generations are maybe more liberal, but also a lot more prude....less sex, less drugs, less alcohol, less partying,... this for sure also has an effect on fashion choices.

I totally agree with this. Japan does things differently but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Same thing with youth nowadays.. and the world in general.

Smartphones have changed everything. It’s more ok to have an only fans nowadays and you can do a gay hook up on grindr , but at the same time the lively gay bars and the party scene where you dance like there is no tomorrow and consume anything and go home with someone random has pretty much died out.. people don’t meet spontaneously anymore. Teen pregnancies are down, real life bullying is down. But instead kids are just isolated on their electronic devices the whole days and bully each other online instead.

Everything has multiple sides.

I for one really miss when Japan was a youth fashion paradise though, whether it was revealing or not.

 

[MikeH]

I do have to agree with points in this thread about Korean fashion though. Recently I have been utterly obsessed with Lee Da Hye from the Kia Tiger

She must be the star player in what ever sports her team is doing.