Japan and ... Overtime

[Smokyyoshi]

Apologies if this has been discussed previously but with the recent high profile cases of karoshi I was wondering what people's experience of overtime is like in Japan, especially as a non-Japanese.

For me, I've lived in Japan for around 2 years and for the last 18 months or so the amount of overtime has been pretty intense. However, I think this is due to any expectation to work overtime, rather the amount of work that's needed to be done (in my case anyway).

It's not as though I haven't worked long hours back in my home country, but in Japan it seems as though it's not particularly exception to work consistency long hours.

For others, as a non-Japanese, are you expected to work less overtime that your Japanese colleagues? What are your experiences with overtime in Japan?

 

[jiraiyajiraiya]

For me it's 40 hours and leave. I ain't got no time for overtime.

 

[vondoom]

at least two hours every day here... often 12 to 13 hours workday... max was 18 hours...
im expected to work the same as everybody else, of course...

 

[Smokyyoshi]

For me it's 40 hours and leave. I ain't got no time for overtime.

Sounds like you've got a pretty good setup!

 

[Smokyyoshi]

at least two hours every day here... often 12 to 13 hours workday... max was 18 hours...
im expected to work the same as everybody else, of course...

I feel the pain... Are you accustomed to working those type of hours now?

 

[jhingy567]

Was under the impression for japanese companies, this is would be a sure thing, even if you get a salary based on 40 hours.

 

[vondoom]

well i get payed for that, so its not as bad as it could be...
accustomed? i dont know... i got a lot to do, so i coyld spend my time better... if i dont have abything to do, i dont mind, though...
i honestly cant answer, because its just the way it is...
got to say that i could leave earlier, if i wanted to, but unless i got plans, i dont do that, because i feel bad for (a few) coworkers, if i would...
and if i would leave earlier when i got plans nobody would complain though...
overtime in my case usually cones from slacking coworkers... i mean why do i get more work at 8pm, when they could tell me about that at noon?
or coworkers slack and at the last minute they realise mistakes, or unfinished things...

 

[Smokyyoshi]

Was under the impression for japanese companies, this is would be a sure thing, even if you get a salary based on 40 hours.

I would have assumed so, but my guess is that in some cases the expectation of a non-Japanese worker is different to a Japanese worker...

 

[vondoom]

if you work in a japanese environment you work the same as everybody else, i thought...
good of course if you get the light treatment!

 

[Smokyyoshi]

well i get payed for that, so its not as bad as it could be...
accustomed? i dont know... i got a lot to do, so i coyld spend my time better... if i dont have abything to do, i dont mind, though...
i honestly cant answer, because its just the way it is...
got to say that i could leave earlier, if i wanted to, but unless i got plans, i dont do that, because i feel bad for (a few) coworkers, if i would...
and if i would leave earlier when i got plans nobody would complain though...
overtime in my case usually cones from slacking coworkers... i mean why do i get more work at 8pm, when they could tell me about that at noon?
or coworkers slack and at the last minute they realise mistakes, or unfinished things...

That's cool. Unfortunately I have サービス残業, no pay for me for the extra hours!

Japanese companies and inefficiencies... That's another thread I think!!

 

[vondoom]

well its just the way it is... might be a problem with the profession though...
also got to say that i work three jobs... two out of three got overtime...

 

[Yuriko]

Some small companies let you do certain OT, for volunteer base. You're lucky, if you get paid for OT. Even on the contract you sign for, they write OT will be paid over certain hours, but you'll never get paid for some shitty venture capitals, foreign owned, as foreign executives eat up most of salary and Japanese staff can be like their slave to some extent. Don't get into those small companies. The potential for karoshi rise.

I can't go home at fixed time, but my boss wants me to leave before 18:30 ish, only a few people left in the office around 19:00. Our company provides healthy work environment. Even it's a foreign financial industry. I don't mind I have some task that couldn't finish I got on my desk...It's just better let go, if there isn't severe deadline. The impression of the longer you stay in the office, the more unpractical you represent yourself, these days. Too much work load, maybe better sort things out, whats needed and whats not needed.
You need to learn how to drop things!

 

[vondoom]

well im changin jobs anyway, but dont think that matters too much^^
i can drop things, my boss apparently cant...

 

[Smokyyoshi]

well its just the way it is... might be a problem with the profession though...
also got to say that i work three jobs... two out of three got overtime...

Wow.. that's hard work. Good luck with switching jobs!

 

[vondoom]

there still will be overtime, but less than before...

 

[Smokyyoshi]

Some small companies let you do certain OT, for volunteer base. You're lucky, if you get paid for OT. Even on the contract you sign for, they write OT will be paid over certain hours, but you'll never get paid for some shitty venture capitals, foreign owned, as foreign executives eat up most of salary and Japanese staff can be like their slave to some extent. Don't get into those small companies. The potential for karoshi rise.

I can't go home at fixed time, but my boss wants me to leave before 18:30 ish, only a few people left in the office around 19:00. Our company provides healthy work environment. Even it's a foreign financial industry. I don't mind I have some task that couldn't finish I got on my desk...It's just better let go, if there isn't severe deadline. The impression of the longer you stay in the office, the more unpractical you represent yourself, these days. Too much work load, maybe better sort things out, whats needed and whats not needed.
You need to learn how to drop things!

Thanks for your insights. Good to see that your boss has a pretty good attitude to work welfare.

Learning how to drop things... You're probably right, although need someone to pick these things up again!

 

[vondoom]

well what happens if you leave earlier?

 

[Smokyyoshi]

well what happens if you leave earlier?

Sleep better, and watch the chaos unravel at work!

 

[Sudsy]

Unpaid overtime is rampant in Japan, and most people have no idea how to combat it.

In all honesty, if you aren't getting paid overtime, you should contact the labour bureau. Keep in mind that you can file claims for up to two years back pay, but no further.

If your contract states a certain number of hours of overtime are included in your salary, that clause may also be legally invalid. For it to be legal, you have to receive a separate stipend for those hours, and you have to be working in certain industries. Consulting and scientific research are examples of positions that qualify.

Another dodge that many companies use to avoid paying overtime is to give staff members a managerial title. For this to be legal, you must in fact be a manager, not just be called one - which means you have to have managerial authority and a manager's stipend in addition to your base salary.

The nice thing about working in HR... they don't try these things on us.

 

[Frenchy]

I actually try to force my staff not to do overtime and to take all their vacations. Slowly they understand that I dont give a damn about the number of hours they stay at office , but about their results and overall behaviour. But it's hard to do that in a country where displaying "gaman" is seen as a virtue, even if most of the time it's BS.

 

[Smokyyoshi]

Unpaid overtime is rampant in Japan, and most people have no idea how to combat it.

In all honesty, if you aren't getting paid overtime, you should contact the labour bureau. Keep in mind that you can file claims for up to two years back pay, but no further.

If your contract states a certain number of hours of overtime are included in your salary, that clause may also be legally invalid. For it to be legal, you have to receive a separate stipend for those hours, and you have to be working in certain industries. Consulting and scientific research are examples of positions that qualify.

Another dodge that many companies use to avoid paying overtime is to give staff members a managerial title. For this to be legal, you must in fact be a manager, not just be called one - which means you have to have managerial authority and a manager's stipend in addition to your base salary.

The nice thing about working in HR... they don't try these things on us.

Thanks for the info Sudsy. I'm always amused at the Japanese law where managers aren't paid overtime but yet subordinates are. It's kinda like, managers shouldn't work long hours and are no going to commit karoshi. Then again, employment regulations aren't anything like in Europe...

 

[Smokyyoshi]

I actually try to force my staff not to do overtime and to take all their vacations. Slowly they understand that I dont give a damn about the number of hours they stay at office , but about their results and overall behaviour. But it's hard to do that in a country where displaying "gaman" is seen as a virtue, even if most of the time it's BS.

That's my attitude too, although I need to sort out my own situation too! Although there are some people at work who stay really really late, even though I'm pretty sure they're not doing anything apart from playing Pokémon...

 

[Yuriko]

Thanks for your insights. Good to see that your boss has a pretty good attitude to work welfare.

Learning how to drop things... You're probably right, although need someone to pick these things up again!

Thanks for your positive response! I drop things, but I'm the only one, who has to pick that again of course!! I have some tasks, I couldn't finish by the end of Oct. Still ongoing. But, that"s life. Shoganai. Perhaps do you have word "shoganai" in French?

 

[User#8628]

Thanks for your positive response! I drop things, but I'm the only one, who has to pick that again of course!! I have some tasks, I couldn't finish by the end of Oct. Still ongoing. But, that"s life. Shoganai. Perhaps do you have word "shoganai" in French?

C'est la vie.

 

[jhingy567]

I actually try to force my staff not to do overtime and to take all their vacations. Slowly they understand that I dont give a damn about the number of hours they stay at office , but about their results and overall behaviour. But it's hard to do that in a country where displaying "gaman" is seen as a virtue, even if most of the time it's BS.

You should send a mass email to your staff explaining this

Im strongly encouraged by the higher ups to take all leave (instead of cashing it) and also not to do any overtime at all. Problem is the workload given is not compatible with 40 hours and I end up taking work home and also when I'm on leave/vacation.