Japanese Women & Close-minded Or Racist Interference

[Wwanderer]

This thread (not the English speaking ability part) reminds me of the famous Churchill quote about democracy being a terrible form of government but all the others being worse.

No one who has spent much time in Japan believes that the culture or the population is perfect or free of racism, xenophobia and frequent instances of "micro agression" and disrespect etc. However, where is the situation better? In much of the world, disapproval and anger at outsiders is expressed as assault or by screaming obscenities at you rather than by talking shit about you behind your back or coughing needlessly when you walk past.

In parody, I'd say that I know that all, say, French people aren't like this and that I indeed have many friends (and have had lovers) who are French. And there are some terrific French people on TAG (.e.g. @DJV ), but that doesn't change the fact that once when I was in Paris, a guy was really really rude to me and my date....just over-the-top outrageously foul and in-our-faces for no real reason. I'd tell the story in detail in hopes of some sympathy, but I can't because I forgot the whole idiotic thing within a day or two.

I've spent time in something like 50 countries and cannot think of a single one in which foreigners are treated better and more tolerantly/kindly than they are in Japan. And the way we treat foreign visitors in my home country (the US), well, let's not even go there...

Try for a bit of perspective, guys!

-Ww

 

[NormalGuy]

I would focus my energy more on the 2 positives
1) the date prior to her running off as she saw a scene unfolding
2) the other woman, who certainly didn't have to get involved, but chose to

Every country has idiots like the barman, some people have no morals, are jealous, see everyone else as competition or are just plain bitter and twisted.

 

[DJV]

This thread (not the English speaking ability part) reminds me of the famous Churchill quote about democracy being a terrible form of government but all the others being worse.

No one who has spent much time in Japan believes that the culture or the population is perfect or free of racism, xenophobia and frequent instances of "micro agression" and disrespect etc. However, where is the situation better? In much of the world, disapproval and anger at outsiders is expressed as assault or by screaming obscenities at you rather than by talking shit about you behind your back or coughing needlessly when you walk past.

In parody, I'd say that I know that all, say, French people aren't like this and that I indeed have many friends (and have had lovers) who are French. And there are some terrific French people on TAG (.e.g. @DJV ), but that doesn't change the fact that once when I was in Paris, a guy was really really rude to me and my date....just over-the-top outrageously foul and in-our-faces for no real reason. I'd tell the story in detail in hopes of some sympathy, but I can't because I forgot the whole idiotic thing within a day or two.

I've spent time in something like 50 countries and cannot think of a single one in which foreigners are treated better and more tolerantly/kindly than they are in Japan. And the way we treat foreign visitors in my home country (the US), well, let's not even go there...

Try for a bit of perspective, guys!

-Ww

Thank you for the kind comment, I disapprove totally any form of xenophobia, and just to report my point of view, it occurs way too much in France. By chance it's getting weaker (no matter what some media report), and the hickups happening these days (terrorism excepted) are due to people opening their eyes to the diversity and adjusting to it.
Tolerance and respect are still stronger than any other values and they should prevail, as long as it doesn't disrupt the social rules (like dressing overly sexy is ok but having a veil on your face is not )
By the way it's really funny to see the differences with Japan in the public space where some groups openly express (sometimes shout) their faith in public using loudspeakers

Since we can't physically federate all the tolerent people of the world in one 'ideal' country, I guess it will continue to be a very long fight for people to get along fine. Imagine a world where TJB doesn't get micro-agressed : that's quite a singular goal (do we really want this ?)

 

[DocMcStuffins]

, it occurs way too much in France. By chance it's getting weaker (no matter what some media report), and the hickups happening these days (terrorism excepted) are due to people opening their eyes to the diversity and adjusting to it.
Tolerance and respect are still stronger than any other values and they should prevail, as long as it doesn't disrupt the social rules (like dressing overly sexy is ok but having a veil on your face is not )

I wish I could be confident that is trending in the right direction in other countries, such as the US.

As for the bartender, has anyone witnessed a similar act against a Japanese customer? I wouldn't want to chalk it up to general racism without evidence.

 

[Solong]

I wish I could be confident that is trending in the right direction in other countries, such as the US.

As for the bartender, has anyone witnessed a similar act against a Japanese customer? I wouldn't want to chalk it up to general racism without evidence.

Most foreigners, unless they can speak Japanese well or happen to catch the other person in the act, will have no clue of the amount of salt thrown behind their back or about foreigners in general.

A lot of foreigners come to Japan briefly, head to a club in Roppongi, and their interaction with Japanese women are few. Guys who are not married and interact with many Japanese, are those likely to start noticing.

 

[Curacao]

Most foreigners, unless they can speak Japanese well or happen to catch the other person in the act, will have no clue of the amount of salt thrown behind their back or about foreigners in general.

A lot of foreigners come to Japan briefly, head to a club in Roppongi, and their interaction with Japanese women are few. Guys who are not married and interact with many Japanese, are those likely to start noticing.

Equally, as I mentioned, foreigners who can't speak Japanese well are likely to start imagining that people are talking behind their backs. It's something I have seen a lot with foreigners who are relatively new to Japan; I consider it to be a fairly typical characteristic of culture shock as experienced by people who can't speak Japanese well.

 

[majimekun]

Me and the asshole bartender then get into an argument. My Japanese date decides to run out. Likely embarrassed or afraid of the situation. I didn't bother to chase after her, and instead finished telling the bartender about how wrong it is to do the bullshit he pulled.

WRONG priorities!

Not very smart if you ask me.

Basically you gave the guy what he wanted.

I would have ignored the guy and kissed the girl right in front of him.

Solongのこと、ちょっとがっかりしたね～（笑）

 

[Solong]

WRONG priorities!

Not very smart if you ask me.

Basically you gave the guy what he wanted.

I would have ignored the guy and kissed the girl right in front of him.

Solongのこと、ちょっとがっかりしたね～（笑）

You didn't read what was typed. In that instance the bartender told a lot of bullsht to the woman while I was in the bathroom. This already created a negative effect on her and situation. She apparently didn't know who to believe, and then just wanted to cowardly run away from the situation (it's arguably common behavior among Japanese women).

I didn't realize what was said until another Japanese woman who recently came back to Japan from the U.S. got upset and started to tell on the bartender. And it wasn't all at once. She heard me talk to my date that it was my 1st time at the bar. The bartender told my date I always come there with different women and is a playboy. The other Japanese woman openly questioned do I come here often. When I said no, then a 3-way discussion started between us.

And this was a 1st date situation. It would have been inappropriate, if not ludicrous, at that moment to suddenly start kissing all over my date. Would not have worked. If it was girlfriend, that's different, or if further along in the date, maybe.

When such Japanese guys backstab in that way, they often study or check if you are boyfriend and girlfriend. They may also ask the Japanese girl such, usually in Japanese. Also the hotter the Japanese woman, the more jealousy and/or the more bold such guys can get.

If she's clearly your girlfriend, they usually won't try it, because they know she will tell you or it can be a direct confrontation that leads to a fight, where they will be clearly wrong (like if police were to ask what happened). So they try to be very sly about it. They do it more when foreign guys are trying to talk to local women or they see they aren't a couple.

Other examples of this behavior happens in bars (HUB for example), clubs, or social gatherings. Certain close-minded or racist Japanese will verbally attack or talk bad about, even preemptively, the male foreigners there. They will say many negative things about them, which the foreigners are usually not aware of. It can be negative things about foreigners or about a location where many foreign guys are said to go.

 

[namae]

What a terrible night out!

Would you play it differently next time? Surely "winning" here meant finishing your drinks and walking out with your date ( and maybe the other girl) and flashing the bar tender a smile and a wink.

 

[static]

Thing is, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. She's not reacting to the bartender talking shit on you. She's reacting to the way you reacted to the bartender talking shit on you. You got insecure and went off on the bartender. I presume your goal initially was to have a nice night with your date. Bartender talking shit on you is unprofessional, yea, but largely irrelevant to the goal. Moreover, do you really think the bartender is going to take to heart what you said, or do you think he'll just go "God damn, another foreigner being loud and brash....." People never feel like a situation is their fault, and calling them out on their shit when they're likely never going to see you again just isn't going to trigger some existential moment where the bartender realizes the error of his ways. These guys aren't studying you to see if you're boyfriend and girlfriend; they're checking to see if they're more alpha than you and if they can troll you to steal her.

I mean it's like the regular Japanese trolling method of talking about foreigner dick size. You think a japanese guys talking about how your dick is so huge it won't fit in the girl is going to scare her away? Even then, just continue the joke and bust the "Nah, don't worry, I have a small dick!" laugh, then continue talking to your date ignoring them. Bartender says you're a playboy? "Oh man, I was hoping I didn't get found out! I guess my secret is out!" switch back and keep talking to the girl ignoring him, or move her away from the bar "Oh wow, on my way to the bathroom I saw this really cool painting! Check this out!"

In my experience, I've only had one japanese girl run away, and that's because I was intentionally pushing for sex in a karaoke box. Not sure where you get the idea that it's "common" for japanese girls to run away. Like a bunch of people said, It's not Japanese people specifically that are small-minded fools, it's the small minded fools that are small minded fools.... You seem to have a whole bunch of preconceived notions going on in your mind that are ultimately hurting you and your interactions with girls. Assume nothing, make love not war.

 

[split]

Double like the above. Only if I could speak Japanese too, because in daily life I use these same methods.

 

[BladeRunner]

I feel, after growing up in London as a white man, that experiencing some latent racism or xenophobia here is quite good for the soul.