Newbie Questioning Pua Methods

[4vibes]

I find it annoying when alot of new PUA critize a method when they don't get the expected result the first time they use it.

First, just because you read about it does not mean you know it enough to implement it. It takes several readings to absorb all the information in a method.

Second. knowing is not the same as doing it. The more complex a task the more practice is needed. Performance is a matter if practice. It takes a lot of practice to be good at complex task.

Third, how would you know if it works because of the gambler fallacy. Doing it only a few times does not give you enough sampling to make a judgement call.

So when a newbie uses the new method and it fails, he blames the method. Amateurs. To be fair a method needs at least 100 approaches. 50 for learning/practice and 50 to get a large enough sampling size to get a performance evaluation.

What do you think about setting criterias to evaluate new information coming out of the community? I think it would bring more credibility and acceptance from the general population.

 

[Sinapse]

I notice you talk a LOT about theory. How about posting some FRs or experiences instead?

It's very hard to know what someone is, does, or knows unless you hear about what they've done. Are you in Japan? Do you game Japanese girls? I get no real sense of your actual experiences through your posts and instead a lot of hot air about some very rigid self defined labels (PUA).

Call me weird, but strongly attaching oneself to labels tends to make me uncomfortable.

 

[User#16452]

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[4vibes]

I notice you talk a LOT about theory. How about posting some FRs or experiences instead?

It's very hard to know what someone is, does, or knows unless you hear about what they've done. Are you in Japan? Do you game Japanese girls? I get no real sense of your actual experiences through your posts and instead a lot of hot air about some very rigid self defined labels (PUA).

Call me weird, but strongly attaching oneself to labels tends to make me uncomfortable.

The sharks would love that. I can already see blood in the water.

 

[Sinapse]

The sharks would love that. I can already see blood in the water.

Well then unfortunately, with no sense of your own experience, you'll have to accept being thought of as someone who has read a TON of material and is simply regurgitating it without actually doing much of anything..

Put more clearly - you seem more concerned with what you think girls do than with what you've seen them do, what should work and why rather than what does work for you, and what is or isn't a PUA rather than what is actually effective when dealing with women.

Personally, I couldn't care less about whether anyone thinks I'm a PUA or not.. Given a choice, I'd choose to distance myself from that particular label despite by all outwards appearances (gaming constantly, coaching) being one of them. I'm much more concerned with effective communication and hooking up with girls than "being a PUA"

 

[4vibes]

It doesn't matter what one calls oneself, the label will be affixed. I will not apologize for my wants. That is one of the first rule for growth. I guess the community may never gain acceptance, but it's credibility will increase with scientific data backing it. Currently, everything has been anecdotal only.

 

[4vibes]

Well then unfortunately, with no sense of your own experience, you'll have to accept being thought of as someone who has read a TON of material and is simply regurgitating it without actually doing much of anything..

Put more clearly - you seem more concerned with what you think girls do than with what you've seen them do, what should work and why rather than what does work for you, and what is or isn't a PUA rather than what is actually effective when dealing with women.

Personally, I couldn't care less about whether anyone thinks I'm a PUA or not.. Given a choice, I'd choose to distance myself from that particular label despite by all outwards appearances (gaming constantly, coaching) being one of them. I'm much more concerned with effective communication and hooking up with girls than "being a PUA"

I remembered someone's example was called a hoaxed and torned to pieces. These people are not worthy to hear about what I've done.

 

[Wwanderer]

I notice you talk a LOT about theory. How about posting some FRs or experiences instead?

It's very hard to know what someone is, does, or knows unless you hear about what they've done. Are you in Japan? Do you game Japanese girls? I get no real sense of your actual experiences through your posts and instead a lot of hot air about some very rigid self defined labels (PUA).

Possibly relevant: https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/another-cosby.11774/#post-73275

-Ww

 

[4vibes]

Possibly relevant: https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/another-cosby.11774/#post-73275

-Ww

Here we go again with thread jacking.... So like Gandalf...

 

[Sinapse]

I remembered someone's example was called a hoaxed and torned to pieces. These people are not worthy to hear about what I've done.

Having been the target of extreme and unnecessary flaming on this board, I hope you realize that what I'm saying comes from a place of complete understanding of your experience here. One of the biggest and most important aspects of game IMO is having a pretty thick skin. Another is speaking about your experience, not only theories. You seem to not do either.. I understand there are quite a few cantankerous people on here with some easily ruffled feathers, but if you're really out there doing well, what do you care what they think or do? When I post on here, it's certainly not for them. There are quite a few guys on this board who are mostly silent (Not surprising given the cacophony of hair-trigger negative reactions to other guys actually talking to women normally *gasp*) who message me thanking me for being the reasonable voice among quite a few haters.

At any rate, I think you would get a lot more mileage speaking beginning with "in my experience" rather than "PUA is..." or "P4P is...". The first is based on what you have actually done and seen whereas the second is nearly contentless. To be honest I don't care one iota what Vin DiCarlo or Ciaran or whoevers theory says, I want to speak with people who have FIELD TESTED things and speak from their experience with pickup and nampa, not simply blurting out summaries of pickup books. Speaking from experience also has the added bonus of attracting less (but not no) hate.

 

[Sinapse]

someone's example was called a hoaxed and torned to pieces.

Yes, if you mean my Fukuoka FR many didn't like it. Many did. Haters gonna hate (especially on good stuff) but can't let that affect what you do

 

[rick]

Yes, if you mean my Fukuoka FR many didn't like it. Many did. Haters gonna hate (especially on good stuff) but can't let that affect what you do

Wait, was that FR posted here? The one with Mr. L? The absolute madman.

Also, I really want 4vibes FR. Don't worry about the haters, just post your thing.

 

[4vibes]

All things aside, I don't to want look like bragging. That is the main reason I don't mention examples. I also wanted to give credit to people who contributed to my game. All the people, I mentioned help me in one way or another. My women are at least 15 yrs younger than me. My gaming is outside of Japan. I was traveling through Japan and did some research on the scene and found this interesting site. Did some gaming while in Japan, but I'm not there any more.

I just couldn't help engaging in the exciting topics on this forum.

 

[roots reggae]

All things aside, I don't to want look like bragging. That is the main reason I don't mention examples. I also wanted to give credit to people who contributed to my game. All the people, I mentioned help me in one way or another. My women are at least 15 yrs younger than me. My gaming is outside of Japan. I was traveling through Japan and did some research on the scene and found this interesting site. Did some gaming while in Japan, but I'm not there any more.

I just couldn't help engaging in the exciting topics on this forum.

@4vibes

First of all, I apologize for my less than appropriate posts last week. I got a bit carried away emotionally. I'll try to keep that in check from now on.

Thank you for explaining a bit more about yourself. That helps explain your perspective.

A couple of points for you to consider as you continue to post.

Japan is different than most countries. I've lived here for eighteen years, am married to a Japanese woman twenty-five years younger, and I still am learning how different Japan is from other countries.

By the way, I have traveled in quite a few countries:
England, Germany, Italy, France, Portugal, Spain, Luxembourg, Holland, Belgium, Greece, Turkey, the Philippines, the former Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and Canada-and my home country, USA, where I have lived in Hawaii, California, Virginia, Texas, Colorado, Georgia, and Tennessee.

While I feel that approaching hundreds of women, using PUA tactics is, for the most part demeaning to women, it is especially so in Japan. Japan is densely populated and the people have adapted accepted practices in order to respect privacy and promote the general order.

Historically, foreigners have been viewed with apprehension and, unfortunately, stereotypes have been formed. Although many of us have lived here a long time, we, in fact, are guests in Japan.

As guests, it is especially important to respect the cultural norms of our host nation, just as we would hope for respect as guests.

So many of the PUA practices violate the social order. It may not be entirely fair, but when a guest's behavior in Japan defies the established norms, it reflects on all expatriates.

So, we are a bit sensitive when short-term visitors behave poorly.

Hope you understand.

 

[4vibes]

@4vibes

First of all, I apologize for my less than appropriate posts last week. I got a bit carried away emotionally. I'll try to keep that in check from now on.

Thank you for explaining a bit more about yourself. That helps explain your perspective.

A couple of points for you to consider as you continue to post.

Japan is different than most countries. I've lived here for eighteen years, am married to a Japanese woman twenty-five years younger, and I still am learning how different Japan is from other countries.

By the way, I have traveled in quite a few countries:
England, Germany, Italy, France, Portugal, Spain, Luxembourg, Holland, Belgium, Greece, Turkey, the Philippines, the former Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and Canada-and my home country, USA, where I have lived in Hawaii, California, Virginia, Texas, Colorado, Georgia, and Tennessee.

While I feel that approaching hundreds of women, using PUA tactics is, for the most part demeaning to women, it is especially so in Japan. Japan is densely populated and the people have adapted accepted practices in order to respect privacy and promote the general order.

Historically, foreigners have been viewed with apprehension and, unfortunately, stereotypes have been formed. Although many of us have lived here a long time, we, in fact, are guests in Japan.

As guests, it is especially important to respect the cultural norms of our host nation, just as we would hope for respect as guests.

So many of the PUA practices violate the social order. It may not be entirely fair, but when a guest's behavior in Japan defies the established norms, it reflects on all expatriates.

So, we are a bit sensitive when short-term visitors behave poorly.

Hope you understand.

No problem. I understand considering the age of my women I'm very aware of the social consequences. I can't openly escalate in public like in private. I have an average age difference of 25 yrs with my women.

 

[Sinapse]

While I feel that approaching hundreds of women, using PUA tactics is, for the most part demeaning to women, it is especially so in Japan. Japan is densely populated and the people have adapted accepted practices in order to respect privacy and promote the general order.

As guests, it is especially important to respect the cultural norms of our host nation, just as we would hope for respect as guests.

I have to point out that nampa is Japanese culture with specifically Japanese origins. If anything, you should do MORE of it when you come here to assimilate into Japanese culture better!

 

[Sinapse]

I don't to want look like bragging. That is the main reason I don't mention examples. I also wanted to give credit to people who contributed to my game. All the people, I mentioned help me in one way or another. My women are at least 15 yrs younger than me. My gaming is outside of Japan. I was traveling through Japan and did some research on the scene and found this interesting site. Did some gaming while in Japan, but I'm not there any more.

I just couldn't help engaging in the exciting topics on this forum.

I think there is a difference between bragging and speaking from experience. Bragging would be "just banged another three girls last week!" (End of post). Speaking from experience would be, "One time a girl said X to me, which was interesting because it went against my assumptions" or "I've noticed a tendency for girls to do Y when I do X. It's valuable to make sure to do/not do X"

In other words, you don't have to brag to do what I'm suggesting - speaking from your own experience rather than name dropping. In fact, it's even more effective if you don't brag!

 

[roots reggae]

I have to point out that nampa is Japanese culture with specifically Japanese origins. If anything, you should do MORE of it when you come here to assimilate into Japanese culture better!

I stand corrected. I did a bit of searching on Google as a rebuttal and overwhelmingly found confirmation of your post.

The only contradiction was in a Wikipedia article:

Because of increasing number of nanpa participants and rising complaints, many Japanese regions are reacting more harshly to participants. For example, many youth hangouts such as arcades are posting "No Nanpa" signs, and police in highly populated Japanese cities have been enforcing these rules. This may be in reaction to a growing fear in young Japanese women of abduction or rape. The Shibuya district is particularly strict on nanpa boys in the wake of the abduction of four girls by a middle aged man in July 2003[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanpa

 

[Wwanderer]

I have to point out that nampa is Japanese culture with specifically Japanese origins.

Here's an honest/legit question asked out of pretty much pure curiosity: I know that the Japanese word "nampa" refers to picking up women in public places. However, I don't know if it really corresponds to the Western concept of PUA involving relatively formal techniques (with specific names), boot camps, a "community", famous leaders/teachers etc or if it is just a word that refers to a particular way of couples meeting without being associated with any particular group or individuals. Do you know? Anyone else?

-Ww

 

[Manfreidi]

You should get used to newbie questioning these things honestly. Your frustration is no different to the Gaijin here in Japan who get angry that people praise them for using chopsticks well or the fact they eat food "X".

Rationalise why they think that way and move on.

 

[4vibes]

Questioning is good. Being lazy and expecting a magic pill is not.

 

[BladeRunner]

Average 25 years younger?! Impressive.
You must have to put up with some awful chat though surely on your travels?
I'm mid 30's and I can barely handle a conversation with most 20 year old girls before wanting to speak to a grown up...

 

[Wwanderer]

Average 25 years younger?! Impressive.
You must have to put up with some awful chat though surely on your travels?
I'm mid 30's and I can barely handle a conversation with most 20 year old girls before wanting to speak to a grown up...

Fwiiw, I tend to find conversations with young people more interesting than conversations with folks my own age who most often are so stuck in the past that it is just one nostalgia topic after another...often ones that have already been rehashed endlessly in previous conversations. I usually learn something new when I talk to people in their teens, 20s or 30s.

-Ww

 

[4vibes]

Average 25 years younger?! Impressive.
You must have to put up with some awful chat though surely on your travels?
I'm mid 30's and I can barely handle a conversation with most 20 year old girls before wanting to speak to a grown up...

Love the energy and fun to play with. P4P has nothing to compare with. If -Ww learned the skills, sex would never be an issue. The imagination is the limit.

 

[roots reggae]

Love the energy and fun to play with. P4P has nothing to compare with. If -Ww learned the skills, sex would never be an issue. The imagination is the limit.

@4vibes,
I am going to try just one more time to reconcile you with the majority of TAG folks.

If I recall, you mentioned that you do not reside in Japan, and have only limited experience in Japan.

Most of your posts have a "Donald Trumpish" in your face, say what's on my mind, confrontational tone.

That sort of attitude really does not cut it in Japan and on TAG.

You also mistake North American and European attitudes towards P4P with the Japanese scene.

Attitudes by the Japanese people towards P4P are much more accepting and subdued. It's a part of Japanese life and considered the norm. The P4P districts are often right next to train stations-a major setting for all Japanese, not isolated and set apart.

Beautiful and sexy Japanese women are valued and considered "idols." Many JAV actresses go on to have successful mainstream television and movie careers without stigma.

Your stereotypes and characterizations of the P4P scene just does not apply to Japan, nor to TAG players you attack. They have lived in Japan for quite a long time and just don't think the way you characterize.

The same goes for the PUA/Nampa scene in Japan. Admittedly, I am speculative, but based on long-term TAG PUA folks-they are not anything like you and your descriptions of PUA.

Perhaps they, too, have adapted to Japan.

Sinapse and Solong are respected on this forum, not vilified-you can tell by the number of their posts and "likes." Not everyone agrees with them, but almost all of us here on TAG feel a kinship with them. They are not considered fringe on this forum.

Just trying to help you understand...