Racism In Japan?

[Username1]

Id like to open up a discussion regarding racism in Japan.

I have read a few replies here and there and of course seen various ones on websites, FB and YouTube. Personally I don't think racism is anywhere as bad as som have protrayed it to be. I think it's ignorance, culture and language barrier is the problem rather than the so called racism I read and hear about. Don't get me wrong, there are racism here, particularly against the Koreans and Chinese but this is a small minority and does not effect the majority of native English speaking foreigners here.

I have been subject to racism back home for a huge part of my life - receiving them and dishing them out - and so I know first hand what real racism is. The shit I read about here, in my opinion is not but I'm open to hearing what others think. If anything, this discussion may also open up and possibly teach some on when to consider something racism and when it's really not.

 

[Username1]

The first and most obvious sort of racism that applies to this forum is refusal of service to non-Japanese. Being denied service based on race is pretty much racism. I know that the first rule of racism is that it is impossible for a white dude to experience racism but that's what it is. If I opened a business in the U.S. and said "If you're not white, no service," it would rather soon be dealt with. Not so in Japan.

I have also had these situations before and from my experience, it's not that they mean Japanese only but Japanese language only. In instances where I have been told with their typical crossed arm gesture "no no Japanese only" I have come back with a friend who translated for me or I've communicated in a different way and been provided the service or sold the product I wanted.

The other thing is like how Japanese think, when something is troublesome, they just rather not have any part of if. This is the same when dealing with matters to do with their own people. The discriminaton or action is not based on race here.

I don't care about "micro aggressions" like Japanese folks falling over themselves that I can use hashi, speak Japanese, can talk nihonshu and shochu, or know the difference between Rosu and Hire at the tonkatsu restaurant. That's not racism, that's just being surprised that someone not Japanese cares to learn.

Glad to see some are not like the other morons who actually take offense to these things!

 

[Username1]

Yeah that shit is amazing. People are too sensitive about things.

Regarding denial of service, I am not in Tokyo, so what I am saying applies to my locality, which I don't want to disclose. I speak damn fluent Japanese. Sufficient to negotiate my own housing contracts, car registration and all that stuff. My daily work language is Japanese. It's not the language, it's that I am not Japanese. When I initiate in flawless polite Japanese while being dressed upscale, there's little room for misinterpretation.

Could you provide examples of this?

 

[psd]

I speak damn fluent Japanese. Sufficient to negotiate my own housing contracts, car registration and all that stuff. My daily work language is Japanese. It's not the language, it's that I am not Japanese. When I initiate in flawless polite Japanese while being dressed upscale, there's little room for misinterpretation.

plus I work for a large Japanese multinational .... and I can't even get a real estate agent to speak to me.

The real estate agents I dealt with recently treated me just like any other customer and they didn't even ask what country I am from. Unfortunately I have had many problems in the past, often it's the owners that are the problem but many real estate agents will just refuse to talk to you. I've given up looking for an apartment countless times because of the blatant racism. I'm often told I'm the best tenant they have ever had and asked if I know any other "gaijin-san" looking for an apartment.

And try getting a credit card from anyone other than Shinsei and Rakuten.

The racism we encounter most often is othering, being treated as different, the outsider. Many people excuse this as not significant. Maybe if you're an eikawa instructor here on a lark that might be OK, but when you're settled here, have a family, have a job in a Japanese company, and expect to be treated as a competent adult then it gets a bit more than annoying.

 

[Daego Kim]

Since I don't live in Japan, I haven't got much to say but I like to weigh in since Korea was mentioned.
Koreans and Japanese had a rough history and it still kinda goes on.
I've felt the Koreans hating Japanese people for no reason. Calling them really unnecessary words but I have a lot of Japanese friends.
It felt like the older generations, (grandparents+some parents) still has the hatred.
But I guess things area changing now. I lived in Korea for quite a time and met some people to talk about the issues between Japan and Korea.
I have to say, our generation (20~29) feels less of that hatred.
Things like games and manga really hit hard in Korea and people loves reading and watching.
Some people still considers reading comic books to be like a child, but that's still being changed a lot.
People who does not appreciate the manga culture will give you a weird stare but who the hell are they to decide your hobbies right?
Drifted off a little bit but I would like to say the world is changing and the racism is getting a little less between the 2 countries

 

[Username1]

Scotty, for me - someone who has dealt with a lot harsher things - what you've describe is not racism but simple discrimination or ignorance.
Perhaps I'm just less sensitive or it may just be that I think further when dealing with things like this. If an establishment says no white people or black people then I can start to consider it racism. If they prefer Japanese and shut out all foreigners, then it may just be ignorance on their part that their customers may not want foreigners there.

plus I work for a large Japanese multinational .... and I can't even get a real estate agent to speak to me.

The real estate agents I dealt with recently treated me just like any other customer and they didn't even ask what country I am from. Unfortunately I have had many problems in the past, often it's the owners that are the problem but many real estate agents will just refuse to talk to you. I've given up looking for an apartment countless times because of the blatant racism. I'm often told I'm the best tenant they have ever had and asked if I know any other "gaijin-san" looking for an apartment.

And try getting a credit card from anyone other than Shinsei and Rakuten.

The racism we encounter most often is othering, being treated as different, the outsider. Many people excuse this as not significant. Maybe if you're an eikawa instructor here on a lark that might be OK, but when you're settled here, have a family, have a job in a Japanese company, and expect to be treated as a competent adult then it gets a bit more than annoying.

I actually have 2 credit cards both from Japanese banks.

 

[John Chavers]

If they prefer Japanese and shut out all foreigners, then it may just be ignorance on their part that their customers may not want foreigners there

Unless they are an exclusive members club, they have received by application a license to serve food and alcohol to the general public from their ward, which means following all of the anti-discrimination laws.

Sometimes non-business owners think running a ramen shop is like inviting your friends over for a meal: it isn't.

 

[Username1]

There are ramen shops who won't allow foreigners in??

 

[k1234k]

... which means following all of the anti-discrimination laws.

Putting on my law hat...

This is where many mistakes are made. This is the Japan Constitution. Constitutionally, 'anti-discrimination' law applies towards JAPANESE nationals, and says there shall be no discrimination against race, creed, sex, social status or family origin.

It is perfectly legal under the Japan Constitution to discriminate on the basis of NATIONALITY.

 

[John Chavers]

Sure are. Look, I get it, you relish reveling in your newly found semi-inclusion. Enjoy it, at least until the next disaster.

 

[John Chavers]

It is perfectly legal under the Japan Constitution to discriminate on the basis of NATIONALITY.

And they know I'm not a Japanese national because...?

 

[k1234k]

Yup- thats the problem, isn't it? But it sure is easy to discriminate against a big hairy white guy. Or a black guy. Or a brown guy. Or a yellow guy with round eyes.

And its legal. At least constitutionally legal.

I'm not defending it- just stating a fact.

 

[Username1]

Sure are. Look, I get it, you relish reveling in your newly found semi-inclusion. Enjoy it, at least until the next disaster.

So they ban foreigners. Do you think it's okay that they also say no children under 5 because of the problems they've had in the past?

 

[Username1]

Yup- thats the problem, isn't it? But it sure is easy to discriminate against a big hairy white guy. Or a black guy. Or a brown guy. Or a yellow guy with round eyes.

And its legal. At least constitutionally legal.

I'm not defending it- just stating a fact.

I vote k1234k as TAG Legal Counsel and go to guy for all legal advice!

 

[John Chavers]

And its legal. At least constitutionally legal.

As long as I'm not a Japanese national. Unless they are a members-only club, they have no legal right to ask for proof of identification unless I'm purchasing alcoholic beverages or there is a legal limit on the age of the customer.

Now who's the legal eagle?

 

[John Chavers]

Do you think it's okay that they also say no children under 5 because of the problems they've had in the past?

Nope.

 

[John Chavers]

Probably not the right thread for this, but:

Very, very nice. Are these two of the @Username1 harem?

 

[psd]

I actually have 2 credit cards both from Japanese banks.

and I have a Mizuho Mastercard. What's your point? Are you denying that banks don't discriminate against foreigners because your personal experience says otherwise? I only got mine because it was part of a company deal with payroll.

 

[Username1]

Just a random pic to show my preference in women here John Chavers.. Makes it easy to understand some of my post if we knew what out preferences are - or wait are all Japanese the same...

 

[Username1]

and I have a Mizuho Mastercard. What's your point? Are you denying that banks don't discriminate against foreigners because your personal experience says otherwise? I only got mine because it was part of a company deal with payroll.

Well I was responding to "And try getting a credit card from anyone other than Shinsei and Rakuten." and so my I wanted to share that I have done it and had no issues. Both cards were not company related and personal ones so whats YOUR point. If anyone here really believes banks racially discriminate against someone because they are a foreigner, they have issues. I deal with the banks on a weekly basis and have had so many other problems which I would never have back home. Never once have I pulled the race discrimination card. Before asking Japanese to be more understanding, perhaps we should be a little more understanding before putting down issues to race.

 

[John Chavers]

If anyone here really believes banks discriminate against someone because they are a foreigner, they have issues.

In this case they discriminate on visa status AFAIK. Like @Username1, I also have several Japanese credit cards.

 

[Username1]

In this case they discriminate on visa status AFAIK. Like @Username1, I also have several Japanese credit cards.

That is standard practice - visa status, work status and income. I have been very angry several times at my bank but this was all due to some stupid process they have. Never once did I think it was race driven or because I was a foreigner. Come to think of it, my ATM have different options in Japanese and English - it must be because they discriminate against English speakers!

 

[psd]

Well I was responding to "And try getting a credit card from anyone other than Shinsei and Rakuten." and so my I wanted to share that I have done it and had no issues. Both cards were not company related and personal ones so whats YOUR point. If anyone here really believes banks racially discriminate against someone because they are a foreigner, they have issues. I deal with the banks on a weekly basis and have had so many other problems which I would never have back home. Never once have I pulled the race discrimination card. Before asking Japanese to be more understanding, perhaps we should be a little more understanding before putting down issues to race.

You're an apologist, you can find a reason to explain everything away, even when blatant racism is presented to you, you just say you don't care because you've seen a lot worse.

Interesting how you ignored my example of real estate agent. But I'm sure you could explain that away, the right to contract with anyone you choose or something like that.

 

[k1234k]

For caucasians from North America or Europe, I think it's fair to say that they have probably never experienced any kind of racism in their lives until they came to Japan.

So in some ways, I think my white friends kind of overreact with shock and horror at their negative experiences in Japan.

I grew up as a minority in a predominantly white American community, and have most certainly encountered and been the victim of outright race hatred from ignorant white trailer trash. You learn to have a thick skin real quick.

So when I hear of acts of racism in Japan, I feel sympathetic, but a part of me is saying 'come on- that's NOTHING. It's not like groups of Japanese men are bullying you on the streets, screaming 'Honky Go Home!' at you as they drive by, destroying your property, or worse.

And another part of me is saying 'Welcome to my world, white man. Sucks, doesn't it? So how about we all try to learn some tolerance and just try to get along?'

 

[Username1]

You're an apologist, you can find a reason to explain everything away, even when blatant racism is presented to you, you just say you don't care because you've seen a lot worse.

Interesting how you ignored my example of real estate agent. But I'm sure you could explain that away, the right to contract with anyone you choose or something like that.

ill check the RE comment later since most of my replies are while I'm driving hence not reading everything.

I'm not one to assume but are you a white guy? Try growing up as a chink or gook in Australia and see what real racism is. It's not a matter of me experiencing more extreme things but a deeper understanding of things people do and why they do them when it comes to this issue.

If you knew me in real life you would know I'm one of the most impatient and least understanding person - I would not hesitate to pull a knife on or start a fight with someone who cut me off for example. I know however from life experiences that when it comes to racism, what it really means. I would say the same shit to my fellow Asians back home who complain. You know what they say to others who moved to Australia and cried racism? If you don't like it, you can go back to your own.