Sugar Dating vs Escorts

[DanniCake]

Question to everyone here. In your opinion what is the difference between a Sugar Baby and an Escort?
In your mind IS there a difference?
What are you looking for in an Escort vs a Sugar Baby?
What negotiates what you'd pay for an Escort vs what you'd offer to a Sugar Baby?
What kinds of things would you expect from an Escort vs Sugar Baby?

-In my first thread I made I talked about how a Sugar Baby might individually rank their Daddies and therefore charge them different rates depending on their feelings, and how long they've been together. However a lot of people were talking about things through the lens of Escort services and how much Escorts charge for similar services as a SB (Ok not similar services, specifically rates for sex.)
Do most people not see a difference in SB and Escorts? Do they expect the same service for the same prices? (Which I mean in that case most SB are grossly undercharging considering they may spend hours with their SD for hardly anything. I mean ask a two or three SB to go out for all night Karaoke and you'd get a good time with a group of ladies for maybe nothing more than the price of the booth and drinks, ask an escort to do the same thing and you're looking at anywhere between 50~100k per Escort, AND the price of the booth and drinks.)

 

[Frenchy]

Question to everyone here. In your opinion what is the difference between a Sugar Baby and an Escort?
In your mind IS there a difference?
What are you looking for in an Escort vs a Sugar Baby?
What negotiates what you'd pay for an Escort vs what you'd offer to a Sugar Baby?
What kinds of things would you expect from an Escort vs Sugar Baby?

-In my first thread I made I talked about how a Sugar Baby might individually rank their Daddies and therefore charge them different rates depending on their feelings, and how long they've been together. However a lot of people were talking about things through the lens of Escort services and how much Escorts charge for similar services as a SB (Ok not similar services, specifically rates for sex.)
Do most people not see a difference in SB and Escorts? Do they expect the same service for the same prices? (Which I mean in that case most SB are grossly undercharging considering they may spend hours with their SD for hardly anything. I mean ask a two or three SB to go out for all night Karaoke and you'd get a good time with a group of ladies for maybe nothing more than the price of the booth and drinks, ask an escort to do the same thing and you're looking at anywhere between 50~100k per Escort, AND the price of the booth and drinks.)

Interesting thread. Thanks for starting it.

 

[User#6517]

In my opinion, both escorts and sugar babies are types of sex workers. If you are getting paid to entertain, date, or sexually arouse mostly/only men, then it’s sexwork in my eyes. And there’s nothing wrong with the word, so it shouldn’t be seen as an insult.

Escorts are people who are paid by the hour and can sell extra services (such as PSE sessions, Greek, etc.) for additional rates. We usually have websites. Some of us “tour” other cities. Clients usually contact us by e-mail, booking forms, or phone. We have regulars or repeat clients. Our incomes are unpredictable.

Sugar babies are people who receive financial support (either monthly allowances or pay-per-meet allowances) to entertain or date men. SBs tend to be more generous with their time and usually invest a lot more emotional labor into the relationship. Sugar relationships can also be short-term, long-term, NSA (no strings attached), or serious. A long-term sugar arrangement can be a lot more stable than an escort’s income, but not necessarily higher.

 

[warubuta]

In my opinion, both escorts and sugar babies are types of sex workers. If you are getting paid to entertain, date, or sexually arouse mostly/only men, then it’s sexwork in my eyes. And there’s nothing wrong with the word, so it shouldn’t be seen as an insult.

Escorts are people who are paid by the hour and can sell extra services (such as PSE sessions, Greek, etc.) for additional rates. We usually have websites. Some of us “tour” other cities. Clients usually contact us by e-mail, booking forms, or phone. We have regulars or repeat clients. Our incomes are unpredictable. Some of us are full-time escorts, so we need to pay taxes as sole proprietors.

Sugar babies are people who receive financial support (either monthly allowances or pay-per-meet allowances) to entertain or date men. SBs tend to be more generous with their time and usually invest a lot more emotional labor into the relationship. Sugar relationships can also be short-term, long-term, NSA (no strings attached), or serious. A long-term sugar arrangement can be a lot more stable than an escort’s income, but not necessarily higher. Sugar babies are very rarely full-time SBs, so they usually don’t pay taxes on their allowances or gift money.

I don’t want to make a big stink about it, but I would imagine that very few independent escorts around the world pay income tax. In this sense they are no different that SBs. Please educate me how I am wrong about this.

 

[Jackindabox]

I don’t want to make a big stink about it, but I would imagine that very few independent escorts around the world pay income tax. In this sense they are no different that SBs. Please educate me how I am wrong about this.

Unless they are in the States. Any gift over 14,000 USD is taxable. I would suppose that cash payments would be untraceable until that dreaded day with the SD reported those cash gifts on his tax return. Might not be applicable now, but it is possible that some SBs do pay taxes. Most escorts don’t unless they own a brother or run an escort service. It is safe to say that SBs are not like escorts in that sense unless they are escorts after all and they only get small allowances that would not get reported anyway.

 

[User#6517]

Please educate me how I am wrong about this.

Is it worth it? You usually respond sarcastically and/or tell people that their opinions are wrong anyway.

 

[warubuta]

Is it worth it? You usually respond sarcastically and/or tell people that their opinions are wrong anyway.

I am a sarcastic SOB that is true. And, as is par for the course on the internet, most people are at least partially wrong about most things. But in your case, I promise to listen quietly without prejudice and respond politely. So.....am I wrong in stating that the vast majority of independents do not pay taxes? You silence will be registered as a ‘yes Warubuta, as usual you are correct’.

 

[Jackindabox]

In my opinion, both escorts and sugar babies are types of sex workers. If you are getting paid to entertain, date, or sexually arouse mostly/only men, then it’s sexwork in my eyes. And there’s nothing wrong with the word, so it shouldn’t be seen as an insult.

Escorts are people who are paid by the hour and can sell extra services (such as PSE sessions, Greek, etc.) for additional rates. We usually have websites. Some of us “tour” other cities. Clients usually contact us by e-mail, booking forms, or phone. We have regulars or repeat clients. Our incomes are unpredictable. Some of us are full-time escorts, so we need to pay taxes as sole proprietors.

Sugar babies are people who receive financial support (either monthly allowances or pay-per-meet allowances) to entertain or date men. SBs tend to be more generous with their time and usually invest a lot more emotional labor into the relationship. Sugar relationships can also be short-term, long-term, NSA (no strings attached), or serious. A long-term sugar arrangement can be a lot more stable than an escort’s income, but not necessarily higher. Sugar babies are very rarely full-time SBs, so they usually don’t pay taxes on their allowances or gift money.

The time invested depends on how you book an escort, right? Some independents engage in correspondence through email. They are very accessible. It’s hard to define a difference unless hard parameters are set in place to add concrete clarity. Without that, it would be hard to say in some cases. In others it would be very easy. That reminds me that I have the contact of a working girl and she sends me messages just about every other day. Which made me remember that a certain escort used to do that too. And that reminds me of an SB that always made sure of my well being and hanged with me every week. In the end though, I couldn’t see any differences in any of them in terms of physical features and money spent. The SB was way more interesting conversationally but not so good at sex. I’d say that certain escorts are really good at sex. These are my experiences.

 

[Wwanderer]

Imo, the major differences between escorting and being an SB have little to do with taxes, though that is an interesting angle/aspect in itself. Here is an old thread with content directly relevant to the OP’s questions:

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/differences-between-sugar-dating-and-traditional-p4p.10546/

There are quite a few others in this forum too.

-Ww

 

[warubuta]

So I read all of these. It is obvious that the vast majority of escorts collect cash and don’t declare most if not all of their income. This, as I initially suspected, makes escorts the same as SBs from a tax perspective.

So do I give a shit? No. But I do want a 30% discount on all services from SBs or escorts from now on. It’s only fair. I pay taxes on my income. Some of my income flows to sex workers. And I dont want any Back talk on this one because I know most sex workers are liberal socialist Bernie Sanders types. You agree in general up until you gotta PAY.

 

[Wwanderer]

Here is something relevant I posted in a similar discussion on a private US board last month:

"However it is also wrong in an important way (at least ime) because it omits the one HUGE difference between conventional escorting/p4p and sugaring for the majority, large majority I think, of SBs on SA. Namely, as an SB they can and do decide to see or not see SDs for whatever reason they please even if he is able and willing to meet their financial goals. In principle of course, escorts can refuse customers too, but in practice they typically only reject them if they are really disagreeable for some reason. By contrast, SBs tend to choose the SDs they will see out of a pool of willing guys based on who they like the most. Basically they treat sugaring in much the same way that they treat dating, with the money as an added incentive to be a bit more open minded and willing to compromise than they would be in conventional dating situations. Lots of SBs state explicit criteria in their profiles. Typical examples include not being willing to see guys who are married (like me), who are over a certain age (like me), who are chubby (like me), who are not college grads, who won't travel with them, who smoke, who aren't into certain hobbies (usually like me), who won't take them shopping, who don't dress well (like me), who do/don't drink, who do drugs, who won't be exclusive (like me), who are bald (like me), who voted for Trump or whoever, who are not fans of X team...on and on. And even those who don't post such explicit criteria often have them and reveal them when you meet or are in correspondence. Imo this is quite a different dynamic and experience for women than the mostly just having sex with guys to earn some money one you described. And for me at least, this is a big part of the attraction of sugaring.

People have said that p4p is like buying a fish, while np4p is like fishing. Sugaring is sort of like fishing in a moderately stocked pond; success in getting something for dinner is easier to achieve but is definitely not a foregone conclusion."


You certainly won't find many, if any, conventional escorts who have lists of criteria for an acceptable customer such as the examples I list in the first paragraph of the above quote.

Another way of saying this is that escorting is a buyers market; men decide whom they want to see and pay. Sugaring is a seller's market; women decide whom they will see and whose money they will accept. That is a vast difference imo.

Of course the above really refers to the opposite iconic ends of what in reality is a spectrum. Some escorting is a lot more like classic sugaring and some sugaring more like classic escorting, but imo and ime they are definitely not the same thing.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

Do most people not see a difference in SB and Escorts? Do they expect the same service for the same prices? (Which I mean in that case most SB are grossly undercharging considering they may spend hours with their SD for hardly anything.

This is the reason that the SBs are not grossly undercharging nor the escorts grossly overcharging:

Another way of saying this is that escorting is a buyers market; men decide whom they want to see and pay. Sugaring is a seller's market; women decide whom they will see and whose money they will accept.

In other words, the SBs are paying the financial cost of being choosey about whom they date, and the escorts are being financially compensated for not being too picky about whom they see.

There is more going on than simple buying and selling of sex.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

I mean ask a two or three SB to go out for all night Karaoke and you'd get a good time with a group of ladies for maybe nothing more than the price of the booth and drinks, ...

This is incorrect for most sugar arrangements imo and afaik. SBs normally expect and receive their agreed upon support (either per date or a regular allowance or some other system) whether or not any sex is involved. Being paid only or more when/if sex is involved in a date is *much* closer to escorting than "normal" (whatever that could possibly mean) sugaring.

-Ww

 

[MikeH]

People have said that p4p is like buying a fish, while np4p is like fishing. Sugaring is sort of like fishing in a moderately stocked pond

That is actually a very useful comparison to me. I really like fishing and often buy fish at the market but never understood what is the point in fishing in those artificial ponds.

 

[Simonka]

This is incorrect for most sugar arrangements imo and afaik. SBs normally expect and receive their agreed upon support (either per date or a regular allowance or some other system) whether or not any sex is involved. Being paid only or more when/if sex is involved in a date is *much* closer to escorting than "normal" (whatever that could possibly mean) sugaring.

-Ww

Also underestimating the vocal skills of some escorts

 

[Wwanderer]

Also underestimating the vocal skills of some escorts

Despite liking your post I don't understand what you mean by it.

Something about karaoke or oral sex or ...?

-Ww

 

[Simonka]

Despite liking your post I don't understand what you mean by it.

Something about karaoke or oral sex or ...?

-Ww

Lol, karaoke.

 

[Wwanderer]

That is actually a very useful comparison to me. I really like fishing and often buy fish at the market but never understood what is the point in fishing in those artificial ponds.

Afaik, the pleasures of fishing (which was something I did a moderate amount in my youth) include 1 - getting the fish on your hook (getting it to bite the lure), 2 - keeping it on the hook as you play it and reel it in until it is landed/caught, 3 - preparing it, 4 - eating it and 5 - bragging about the experience to other fisher(wo)men. Fishing in a stocked/artificial pond makes only step #1 easier to a degree that can be adjusted by varying how heavily the water is stocked and how hungry the fish are kept. The rest is pretty much the same as fishing in natural waters and no less fun, right?

It seems to me that this analysis applies about equally well whether we are talking about actual fishing or metaphorically about dating and sugar dating. Think about the correspondence to each of the five steps!

Anyway, I'm glad that you found the comparison useful or interesting.

-Ww

 

[ballio47]

I don’t usually post (more of a lurker), but I would put my 2 cents in on this if anyone cares to read it. I have some fairly extensive experience with sugaring as I suspect most men do (whether they acknoeledge it or not is a different matter). As well as some more limited experience with escorts.
I have noticed a few of the discussions revolving around cost. From my perspective, SBs are actually more expensive in the long term but provide much more than just sexual release. Most of mine have been more like legitimate girl friends and I suspect a few of them have been. It’s not always about ‘allowances’. In some cases they have travelled with me (like I would with a GF), I have taken them shopping (like I would with a GF) and I have helped them out with bills (like I have with a GF). In all cases, they were less expensive than my former wife.
I absolutely adore some of the local escorts in Tokyo, but a ‘good’ SB is an entirely different experience.
Again, just my 2 cents.

 

[Wwanderer]

I have noticed a few of the discussions revolving around cost. From my perspective, SBs are actually more expensive in the long term but provide much more than just sexual release. Most of mine have been more like legitimate girl friends and I suspect a few of them have been. It’s not always about ‘allowances’. In some cases they have travelled with me (like I would with a GF), I have taken them shopping (like I would with a GF) and I have helped them out with bills (like I have with a GF).

Thanks for an excellent post, and please start contributing more often.

By no means all of my sugar arrangements have been along the lines you describe above, and they have never started out in that sort of "mode", but quite a few of them have evolved into that sort of situation once the arrangement was well established. When A gives B money, B is usually selling A something...whether it is sex or time or an simply an opportunity to get to know B better. However, imo and experience, A isn't buying anything at all from B is the sort of situation you describe. It is more like A gives B money because B needs or wants it, and A likes B enough to want to make her/him happy...analogous to the way money is handled in some families.

Imo another term for such situations would help us make a useful distinction. It is even less like conventional p4p/escorting and is "beyond" sugaring in a sense. I can't tell how common it is compared to conventional sugaring, which is one reason I find your post quite interesting/valuable. It is not "normal" for me, but it also isn't too unusual, but I never take myself as being typical of much of anything.

-Ww

 

[MikeH]

The rest is pretty much the same as fishing in natural waters and no less fun, right?

I think you hit again my problem in the head. Because it is not natural it's not as much fun for me. Yeah, I know, but people are often way less logical than they claim, right?

It's probably quite similar to some guys not liking man-made boobs. Even if the good one's cannot be distinguished from the natural ones if they know they don't like them. So I guess the only thing I need is an SB who lures me in without me acknowledging it's sugaring.

Hunting and fishing do have so much similarities with this too. I do remember the times when I used to hook up with escorts pretty much on daily basis and sometimes when I, in Bangkok, Manila or Singapore, managed to talk a hot spinner in the taxi to take her home I remember thinking "oh mine, now I have to actually fuck her too". I have had the same thought go through my mine after a successful rifle shot too.

No, not "now I have to fuck that deer too", but to prepare and eat it. That's my least favourite part of hunting. The problem of course is the older I come the more I enjoy just walking in the forest with a rifle in my hand so I can claim I am hunting and not just wandering around aimlessly. Hopefully that's not the case soon with the girls too.

 

[warubuta]

Afaik, the pleasures of fishing (which was something I did a moderate amount in my youth) include 1 - getting the fish on your hook (getting it to bite the lure), 2 - keeping it on the hook as you play it and reel it in until it is landed/caught, 3 - preparing it, 4 - eating it and 5 - bragging about the experience to other fisher(wo)men. Fishing in a stocked/artificial pond makes only step #1 easier to a degree that can be adjusted by varying how heavily the water is stocked and how hungry the fish are kept. The rest is pretty much the same as fishing in natural waters and no less fun, right?

It seems to me that this analysis applies about equally well whether we are talking about actual fishing or metaphorically about dating and sugar dating. Think about the correspondence to each of the five steps!

Anyway, I'm glad that you found the comparison useful or interesting.

-Ww

And you can’t forget the poor misguided enviro-femios who do ‘catch and release’. What a bunch of pussies! IMO if you don’t sink a big sharp gaff in the side of the beast and drag it over the transom with dark blood gushing all over the place, it just ain’t fishing. Same with women. If you don’t drive home your man-gaff (after consent) in a crazy fit of violent ecstasy, what’s the point?

 

[TAG Manager]

And you can’t forget the poor misguided enviro-femios who do ‘catch and release’. What a bunch of pussies! IMO if you don’t sink a big sharp gaff in the side of the beast and drag it over the transom with dark blood gushing all over the place, it just ain’t fishing. Same with women. If you don’t drive home your man-gaff (after consent) in a crazy fit of violent ecstasy, what’s the point?

Never heard man-gaff before - don’t google it.

 

[warubuta]

Never heard man-gaff before - don’t google it.

Oh shit! That’s what happens when you make up hyphenated words. And when you are not up to date on the latest tranny underwear tech. Jesus.

 

[ballio47]

Thanks for an excellent post, and please start contributing more often.

By no means all of my sugar arrangements have been along the lines you describe above, and they have never started out in that sort of "mode", but quite a few of them have evolved into that sort of situation once the arrangement was well established. When A gives B money, B is usually selling A something...whether it is sex or time or an simply an opportunity to get to know B better. However, imo and experience, A isn't buying anything at all from B is the sort of situation you describe. It is more like A gives B money because B needs or wants it, and A likes B enough to want to make her/him happy...analogous to the way money is handled in some families.

Imo another term for such situations would help us make a useful distinction. It is even less like conventional p4p/escorting and is "beyond" sugaring in a sense. I can't tell how common it is compared to conventional sugaring, which is one reason I find your post quite interesting/valuable. It is not "normal" for me, but it also isn't too unusual, but I never take myself as being typical of much of anything.

-Ww

In the interests of fairness, I would point out that I assumed intimacy. A may like B enough to make him/her happy but the surest path to that is...well you get the picture.