Tag Policies

[Wwanderer]

@Wwanderer Very much it.
I'm particularly sensitive to your point 4 where I'm also under the feeling that many PUAs are quite strong in their opinions.
Differences are made by psychologists and economists between hedgehogs and foxes (following a novel of Dostoyevsky). Hedgehogs have strong opinions and few doubts. They tend to make more mistakes but being more charismatic as they are easier to apprehend. Foxes don't know certainty. They weight opinions, choices and take compromise positions that may evolve without sexting their ego. The good point is that they are less wrong than foxes, the bad side is that they are not as demanded as pundits.
Most PUAs in tag are really hedgehogs.
At least a good half of p4ps are foxes.

To balance everything, I would add that recently I am under the feeling that there was more provocations and aggressiveness coming from p4p than the opposite....

Very nice analysis, but I think there was one typo; you meant "less wrong than the hedgehogs" I think, not "than the foxes". Right?

-Ww

 

[hkAlone]

Very nice analysis, but I think there was one typo; you meant "less wrong than the hedgehogs" I think, not "than the foxes". Right?

-Ww

Absolutely... i missed this typo. I had time to fix/edit a funny one (hurting their ego instead of sexting their ego )

 

[Wwanderer]

To balance everything, I would add that recently I am under the feeling that there was more provocations and aggressiveness coming from p4p than the opposite....

Agreed...recently.

-Ww

 

[HentaiHakujin]

I bounce between the two communities because I have a foot in each. At this stage of life I value time more than money. PUA/game takes a time investment that exceeds my interest in that particular outcome. I have no big interest in a deep connection with anyone or the thrill of the hunt, so P4P works fine. However, I do study game theory for its application in the rest of life. Reading people, push/pull, leading/pacing, other aspects of charisma have utility across the domains of life. It markedly helped me in business. People will do more for someone they find appealing/attractive. So fun and charm are good things to employ. Learning how to deliver what people really respond to vs what they say they respond to also benefits.

 

[Wwanderer]

Another fifth point I meant to mention in this post

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/tag-policies.12543/#post-84290

is that although most people...or conventional main-stream society if you prefer...disapproves of both PUA and p4p, the disapproval of the latter is MUCH greater. A typical man or woman "in the street" thinks of PUA stuff as creepy, annoying, obnoxious, immature, silly and so forth, but they regard p4p as disgusting, immoral, evil, criminal etc. This is totally clear from the fact that most of those involved in p4p keep that portion of their lives hidden from family, friends and colleagues while PUAs write books, run training courses (bootcamps), boast/self-promote to anyone who will listen etc.

So, while PUAs may feel hate and unfair criticism from mongers and escorts on TAG, the mongers and escorts may well feel that the PUAs don't have any idea what serious hostility, stigmatization and persecution are like. To me this makes little sense, but I suspect it is part of why the p4p crowd doesn't feel too guilty about giving the PUA folks a hard time.

-Ww

 

[Sinapse]

they always play their little stupid game to people. Think Ramsey Bolton.

A kid thinking that the world isn't as hostile as it actually is.

The only hostility I see here, my dear, is coming from you! (lets also remember it was you who wanted to meet me, not the other way around)

I have never seen Sinapse or another PUA type jump into the thread and say anyone was a loser for paying for time with a woman. In about a week of paying the PUA forum any attention, there have been more than a couple hostile THREADS.

[emphasis added]

Third, there are direct attacks on p4p by PUAs. See for example this thread:

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/is-p4p-immoral.9775/

I looked back on that thread, and I didn't read the whole thing but I don't really see much hostility or ad hominem, and it was an issue that was raised once and left alone. On my part, having never really gone to a prostitute, nor having had many friends who did so and told me, that thread was interesting and enlightening for me because it offered up the opinions and ideas of p4p members to the point that I've stopped attacking p4p pretty much entirely. I still don't really believe that sex should be a commodity in general that people feel they haven no choice but to turn to - in other words, I think people should have an abundance of sexual options, and if they are just shy or have trouble talking to girls that shouldn't hold them back from getting a girlfriend. But if they do have the ability to create for themselves an abundance of sexual opportunities, then I think it's fine for p4p to be another of them. In short, my viewpoint became more nuanced after hearing from members of this board. On the other hand, it seems like many of the usual subjects seem to want to continue coming into the PUA board and make the same points over and over and over again in very long-winded and inflammatory threads. In short, I don't think they are learning anything or even trying to see the other point of view. This is what concerns me.

I think it's also telling that you had to dig back nearly a year to find a thread where gamers even questioned p4p on another part of the forum. If you look at just the past week or month as @HentaiHakujin says, you will see a LOT of hate coming into the PUA forum, and many devoted threads towards just HATE or questioning the entire foundation of pickup rather than treating it with nuance and discussing certain pieces of it. It seems that people constantly go out of their way to restart threads directed at repeatedly reminding gamers that they find the whole enterprise annoying, disgusting, harassing, etc. One could even go as far to say that some members are obsessed in their hate of pickup. This doesn't particularly bother me, since the hate, controversy, and effort they spend does little to dissuade anyone, and only drives more interest and traffic from people towards game. So... thanks! However, it IS amusing.

I also find it funny to be lumped in with 4vibes and random guys in Los Angeles when I've never met them nor do I think anything they say or do to be remotely accurate or relevant.

although most people...or conventional main-stream society if you prefer...disapproves of both PUA and p4p, the disapproval of the latter is MUCH greater. A typical man or woman "in the street" thinks of PUA stuff as creepy, annoying, obnoxious, immature, silly and so forth, but they regard p4p as disgusting, immoral, evil, criminal etc. This is totally clear from the fact that most of those involved in p4p keep that portion of their lives hidden from family, friends and colleagues while PUAs write books, run training courses (bootcamps), boast/self-promote to anyone who will listen etc.

So, while PUAs may feel hate and unfair criticism from mongers and escorts on TAG, the mongers and escorts may well feel that the PUAs don't have any idea what serious hostility, stigmatization and persecution are like. To me this makes little sense, but I suspect it is part of why the p4p crowd doesn't feel too guilty about giving the PUA folks a hard time.

In my opinion, the fact that p4p is persecuted by society in general means that they should try to understand the hate PUA gets MORE, not less. Much like horizontal oppression that occurs for example, when the black community has very strongly anti-gay sentiments, or vice versa how some gays can be racist and anti-black. You *would think* that one groups mischaracterization and persecution by the dominant culture as a whole would lend itself towards empathy and compassion, and an attempt to understand first and foremost. However, these people seem inexplicably blinded to the oppression in their fellow man, even as much as to dish it out themselves. In short, I think that one groups' persecution should make them MORE compassionate, not less.

 

[Wwanderer]

In my opinion, the fact that p4p is persecuted by society in general means that they should try to understand the hate PUA gets MORE, not less. Much like horizontal oppression that occurs for example, when the black community has very strongly anti-gay sentiments, or vice versa how some gays can be racist and anti-black. You *would think* that one groups mischaracterization and persecution by the dominant culture as a whole would lend itself towards empathy and compassion, and an attempt to understand first and foremost. However, these people seem inexplicably blinded to the oppression in their fellow man, even as much as to dish it out themselves. In short, I think that one groups' persecution should make them MORE compassionate, not less.

I agree entirely; it is quite irrational. But as you point out, "horizontal oppression" (a term I hadn't heard before, but I'm very familiar with the behavior) is pretty normal/usual human behavior. Even various social mammals display similar behaviors; a individual animal which is harassed by a larger/stronger one will very often in turn harass one that is smaller and weaker than itself. So, while it may seem logically "inexplicable", it shouldn't come as any surprise either.

-Ww

 

[HentaiHakujin]

Just jumping in to say that you cant go wrong contemplating the thoughts and observations of the hentaihakujin. I like my name in blue.

 

[meiji]

Take the P4P vs PUA holy war elsewhere.