Tax deduction options for foreigners living in Japan?

[TokyoJoeblow]

Well, you said you read the document, but it seems you didn't understand what it says!

Page 9, Chapter 1-2 Who Must File A Final Return, Section 1. An Employment Income Earner, item (3) deals with your case if you have multiple employers.

However I would strongly suggest you do the calculations yourself in any case; it's not complicated and if you have any deductions your employers don't know it is fairly probably you'll end up paying less taxes if you file yourself.

Of course if you are happy to pay more for the benefit of this great nation then of course you are welcome to do it!

You seem to believe that I need to file when in fact, I just gave examples from guys that have been here more than a decade that haven't needed to file. I understood the document, but it seems that what is on paper and what some foreigners are doing don't exactly always match up.

One could jump to the conclusion that what my friends are doing is illegal, but then again you would think the tax agents would be on their asses when that has yet to be the case.

 

[Frenchy]

Well, you said you read the document, but it seems you didn't understand what it says!

Page 9, Chapter 1-2 Who Must File A Final Return, Section 1. An Employment Income Earner, item (3) deals with your case if you have multiple employers.

However I would strongly suggest you do the calculations yourself in any case; it's not complicated and if you have any deductions your employers don't know it is fairly probably you'll end up paying less taxes if you file yourself.

Of course if you are happy to pay more for the benefit of this great nation then of course you are welcome to do it!

I will do that. Too lazy to do the paperwork to get a few deductions on charity donations (which are not part of the year-end adjustment) so here you go Mr Taxman , have fun! Ok, I'm no Warren Buffett so it didn't amount to much anyway. Still I think some of the YYY I paid for p4p could be considered as charity but I didn't get any receipt

 

[Frenchy]

You seem to believe that I need to file when in fact, I just gave examples from guys that have been here more than a decade that haven't needed to file. I understood the document, but it seems that what is on paper and what some foreigners are doing don't exactly always match up.

One could jump to the conclusion that what my friends are doing is illegal, but then again you would think the tax agents would be on their asses when that has yet to be the case.

Ok so cut the crap! You are not really interested in what you should do , but what you can try to avoid doing , am I right ?

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

Ok so cut the crap! You are not really interested in what you should do , but what you can try to avoid doing , am I right ?

I thought that my posts made it clear that I don't want to file. I didn't work much this year and my deductions wouldn't even be worth the hassle of filling out and mailing the forms. Besides, I also didn't file last year and nothing happened.

 

[Frenchy]

I thought that my posts made it clear that I don't want to file. I didn't work much this year and my deductions wouldn't even be worth the hassle of filling out and mailing the forms. Besides, I also didn't file last year and nothing happened.

Then no problemo !

 

[impish]

Well, I talked with a different foreigner that has been teaching English here for like 12 years and he said the same thing as my other friend. He told me that in all his years working both full time at one company and part time at multiple companies, he never once filed for taxes himself. Both of these friends also mentioned they have never had issues with regard to taxes or spouse visa issues either.

I will of course talk about this with my bosses, but I wanted to share the second opinion on here.

Dude, this is really ridiculous. Just because your friends didn't have an issue doesn't mean you may not. We are not accountants, your friends are not accountants. Find yourself an accountant who knows the tax law. Tax is based on the amount you make at all your jobs through the year. You don't get taxed for each job you get taxed for the total and therefore you may or may not owe more taxes at the end of the tax year.

 

[MossBoss]

He doesn't need an accountant. He needs to take the relevant paperwork to the City Office and someone will help him sort it out. It is better to go with a Japanese speaker but City Offices who process a lot of gaijins should have an English speaker on hand.

TokyoJoeBlow's tax affairs seems relatively simple so it shouldn't take long. As he said he hasn't earned so much this year, he might actually get a tax rebate.

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

He doesn't need an accountant. He needs to take the relevant paperwork to the City Office and someone will help him sort it out. It is better to go with a Japanese speaker but City Offices who process a lot of gaijins should have an English speaker on hand.

TokyoJoeBlow's tax affairs seems relatively simple so it shouldn't take long. As he said he hasn't earned so much this year, he might actually get a tax rebate.

I do have an online business, but I will never share those earnings with them.

 

[MikeH]

You seem to believe that I need to file when in fact, I just gave examples from guys that have been here more than a decade that haven't needed to file. I understood the document, but it seems that what is on paper and what some foreigners are doing don't exactly always match up.

If you read the paragraph then it gave you the explanation why your friends didn't need to file: their employers took care of withholding the taxes from their salary payments.

One could jump to the conclusion that what my friends are doing is illegal, but then again you would think the tax agents would be on their asses when that has yet to be the case.

You are the only one jumping here but also the tax man doesn't have time to go after every foreigner there is. And an additional benefit of filing is they can then go back only three years if they get you. If you don't file then they can go back five years.

He doesn't need an accountant. He needs to take the relevant paperwork to the City Office and someone will help him sort it out.

Exactly! (except that he needs to go to the tax office) And most of us don't make enough for the big accounting companies to care. One company I was working way back forced me to allow a big international accounting agent to file my tax return. The company of course paid for that, and it came to 300.000 yens. I used less than two hours for the same and found out they filed it wrong; pointed out their error and paid less taxes. Only thing the accountant had to say was it was a computer error. Yeah, right.

I do have an online business, but I will never share those earnings with them.

Now one could jump to the conclusion that's illegal.

And by the way, you (and me!) have now spend more time asking about this in an anonymous mongering site than it would have taken you to do the freaking paper work and file

 

[Frenchy]

If you read the paragraph then it gave you the explanation why your friends didn't need to file: their employers took care of withholding the taxes from their salary payments.



You are the only one jumping here but also the tax man doesn't have time to go after every foreigner there is. And an additional benefit of filing is they can then go back only three years if they get you. If you don't file then they can go back five years.



Exactly! (except that he needs to go to the tax office) And most of us don't make enough for the big accounting companies to care. One company I was working way back forced me to allow a big international accounting agent to file my tax return. The company of course paid for that, and it came to 300.000 yens. I used less than two hours for the same and found out they filed it wrong; pointed out their error and paid less taxes. Only thing the accountant had to say was it was a computer error. Yeah, right.



Now one could jump to the conclusion that's illegal.

And by the way, you (and me!) have now spend more time asking about this in an anonymous mongering site than it would have taken you to do the freaking paper work and file

Yeah but you know, maybe we find it oddly arousing? Among all those discussions about cocks, pussies, cum etc... a bit of tax is refreshing , imho !

 

[MikeH]

Yeah but you know, maybe we find it oddly arousing? Among all those discussions about cocks, pussies, cum etc... a bit of tax is refreshing , imho !

And I bet it would get more interesting if you ask them at the tax office if you can deduct the gaijin tax you already paid at Yoshiwara?

 

[Frenchy]

And I bet it would get more interesting if you ask them at the tax office if you can deduct the gaijin tax you already paid at Yoshiwara?

Will do! (Well first I need to go to Yoshiwara, after reading many reviews here I start to get comfortable with the idea). I wish I could at least vote for local elections though , given all the taxes I paid here for many years. last time around Shinjuku I saw a "candidate" who had no discernible program or ideology , didn't do any speech , he was just playing cheesy music (think Japanese ABBA) and doing weird moves with his arms and hands and smiling to people. At least the guy didn't seem to need lots of extra taxes for his projects!

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Damn it... He got us all again.

We've talked about @TokyoJoeblow publishing his memoirs of Japan before, and we've just given him another chapter.

I hope he writes Dave Barry style because it would be hilarious.

 

[Sudsy]

Well, I talked with a different foreigner that has been teaching English here for like 12 years and he said the same thing as my other friend. He told me that in all his years working both full time at one company and part time at multiple companies, he never once filed for taxes himself. Both of these friends also mentioned they have never had issues with regard to taxes or spouse visa issues either.

I will of course talk about this with my bosses, but I wanted to share the second opinion on here.

Just because they've gotten away with it doesn't make it a good idea - and it also doesn't mean they'll get away with it forever. All it means is that their number hasn't come up - the tax office does randomly pull and check tax records for individuals.

You seem to believe that I need to file when in fact, I just gave examples from guys that have been here more than a decade that haven't needed to file. I understood the document, but it seems that what is on paper and what some foreigners are doing don't exactly always match up.

One could jump to the conclusion that what my friends are doing is illegal, but then again you would think the tax agents would be on their asses when that has yet to be the case.

You do need to file. You gave examples of guys that have been neglecting that responsibility, either knowingly or through an ignorance of the procedure. And again, it'll all be fine until the day their number comes up for an audit.

We are not accountants

Actually, I am a certified accountant.

He doesn't need an accountant. He needs to take the relevant paperwork to the City Office and someone will help him sort it out. It is better to go with a Japanese speaker but City Offices who process a lot of gaijins should have an English speaker on hand.

TokyoJoeBlow's tax affairs seems relatively simple so it shouldn't take long. As he said he hasn't earned so much this year, he might actually get a tax rebate.

Exactly this - just go to the zeimusho and they'll help you through the paperwork. They're actually very helpful, and often more knowledgeable about various deductions than a lot of personal accountants.

 

[roots reggae]

Dude, this is really ridiculous. Just because your friends didn't have an issue doesn't mean you may not. We are not accountants, your friends are not accountants. Find yourself an accountant who knows the tax law. Tax is based on the amount you make at all your jobs through the year. You don't get taxed for each job you get taxed for the total and therefore you may or may not owe more taxes at the end of the tax year.

Damn it... He got us all again.

We've talked about @TokyoJoeblow publishing his memoirs of Japan before, and we've just given him another chapter.

I hope he writes Dave Barry style because it would be hilarious.

I was just about to comment on that same pattern @impish, when I read the same kind of response I would have written, from the esteemed TAG legend now known as Rusty Trombone.

Hook, Line, and Sinker-again!!!

TokyoJoeBlow is, indeed, a master of his trade.

For those new to TAG, you are in for a treat. No need to wait for his memoirs of Japan. Just go back in TAG time and peruse the full range of his genius. His threads are legend.

I've gathered just a small few of his choice threads to whet your appetite:

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/discreet-av-job-search-through-staffing-agencies.13236/
https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads...-antibiotics-as-a-preventative-measure.12376/
https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads...soap-body-lube-and-who-knows-what-else.10666/

And my personal all-time favorite:

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads...e-in-the-wall-at-my-wifes-familys-house.9289/

@TokyoJoeblow: I am sincere in my admiration for your posts. This time-no sarcasm intended, well, OK, maybe just a teeny bit.

 

[Frenchy]

I was just about to comment on that same pattern @impish, when I read the same kind of response I would have written, from the esteemed TAG legend now known as Rusty Trombone.

Hook, Line, and Sinker-again!!!

TokyoJoeBlow is, indeed, a master of his trade.

For those new to TAG, you are in for a treat. No need to wait for his memoirs of Japan. Just go back in TAG time and peruse the full range of his genius. His threads are legend.

I've gathered just a small few of his choice threads to whet your appetite:

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/discreet-av-job-search-through-staffing-agencies.13236/
https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads...-antibiotics-as-a-preventative-measure.12376/
https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads...soap-body-lube-and-who-knows-what-else.10666/

And my personal all-time favorite:

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads...e-in-the-wall-at-my-wifes-familys-house.9289/

@TokyoJoeblow: I am sincere in my admiration for your posts. This time-no sarcasm intended, well, OK, maybe just a teeny bit.

Yeah! I love the last one, indeed a keeper , thanks Roots. TJB: please keep em coming! Honestly you have a gift . People answer more to your threads about tax and holes in the wall than juicy encounters with escorts.

 

[meiji]

Get back on topic, please. Take the personal attacks elsewhere.

 

[Frenchy]

Get back on topic, please. Take the personal attacks elsewhere.

Well not sure if you meant my latest post but I was not trying to attack TJB: honestly I found his choice of topic rather original and worth answering to (since I do!) . But of course people may agree or not on the positions he expressed, that's a different thing.

 

[TAG Manager]

Well not sure if you meant my latest post but I was not trying to attack TJB: honestly I found his choice of topic rather original and worth answering to (since I do!) . But of course people may agree or not on the positions he expressed, that's a different thing.

It's a general comment, not targeted. The problem is the title leads a bunch of people here and it needs to go back to the topic for the title. (as much as possible)

Thanks!

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

"If you read the paragraph then it gave you the explanation why your friends didn't need to file: their employers took care of withholding the taxes from their salary payments."

My employers are doing the same thing for me, so I guess I don't need to file.

 

[meiji]

My employers are doing the same thing for me, so I guess I don't need to file.

Do your friends have multiple jobs? What you haven't acknowledged yet is that filing taxes in Japan is needed when there's a discrepancy between your income OR the tax paid and what your employers file for you.

I mean, lets make this a ridiculously simple example and say that there is ONE tax bracket in Japan. Everyone making under ¥5M pays no tax, and everyone making over ¥5M pays 10% tax on amounts over ¥5M. Your buddy that works one job makes ¥6M. His employer, rightfully, reports ¥6M income and reports ¥100,000 tax. Now, if you have 2 jobs where one job pays ¥4M and the other job pays ¥3M, each employer will file that amount of income, but no tax. Your actual amount of tax owed in that instance is ¥200,000.

So the only circumstance in which you don't need to actually file is if your combined income is either lower than the lowest tax bracket, or somehow coincidentally within the same tax bracket, which is pretty tough to do. Here's the national tax rates, although I'm not sure whether these are accurate for 2016.

 

[TokyoJoeblow]

Do your friends have multiple jobs? What you haven't acknowledged yet is that filing taxes in Japan is needed when there's a discrepancy between your income OR the tax paid and what your employers file for you.

I mean, lets make this a ridiculously simple example and say that there is ONE tax bracket in Japan. Everyone making under ¥5M pays no tax, and everyone making over ¥5M pays 10% tax on amounts over ¥5M. Your buddy that works one job makes ¥6M. His employer, rightfully, reports ¥6M income and reports ¥100,000 tax. Now, if you have 2 jobs where one job pays ¥4M and the other job pays ¥3M, each employer will file that amount of income, but no tax. Your actual amount of tax owed in that instance is ¥200,000.

So the only circumstance in which you don't need to actually file is if your combined income is either lower than the lowest tax bracket, or somehow coincidentally within the same tax bracket, which is pretty tough to do. Here's the national tax rates, although I'm not sure whether these are accurate for 2016.

Yes, both of these friends never once filed or even filled out tax papers while they were working more than one job. One of these friends currently still teaches at more than one school and he still never files. His employers are withholding taxes from each of his salary payments, just as my employers do.

I will be speaking with my bosses more tomorrow and Saturday about this because I will see them in the offices. I understand your example really clearly, but I will just see what they have to tell me.

 

[roots reggae]

Yes, both of these friends never once filed or even filled out tax papers while they were working more than one job. One of these friends currently still teaches at more than one school and he still never files. His employers are withholding taxes from each of his salary payments, just as my employers do.

I will be speaking with my bosses more tomorrow and Saturday about this because I will see them in the offices. I understand your example really clearly, but I will just see what they have to tell me.

I am truly keeping my fingers crossed for you. We would miss you and your tales of adventure so much if you got kicked out of the country for taxes. Remember, they got Al Capone for taxes. You might be able to "get away with murder" but the "State" demands their fair share.

Meiji and MikeH gave you sound advice.

 

[MikeH]

Meiji and MikeH gave you sound advice.

Maybe next time we should give audiovisual advice instead to get the message through?

For me it's pretty much similar than with p4p. I don't have to give my partner the big O but I still try my hardest. Similarly I might not need to file my taxes but I'll always do as it gives me the (illusion of?) control. At least then I can pretend I am an active player and not a drifter.

It's never a bad thing to keep in top of things if you can and at least know how much you pay and for what. And also that applies for both p4p and taxes.

 

[split]

TJB - I wouldn't worry about having to pay so much. I had to recently file several years I hadn't filed before due to a radical change in my tax profile this year after death of a family member. I see some seemingly incorrect info here in the first page about U.S. taxes too. I'm in the same position/situation as you. I didn't file for 5 years in the U.S while earning money in China for 2 of those years and 1 here. I just recently went back home to file those 5 years and the CPA required to file only 3 of those 5 years. And Yes, I had to pay like $80 for all of the penalties/fees/taxes since I made probably the same as you have been making. The accountant costs were triple the entire 3 years of taxes themself. I simply had to tell them by 'honor system' exactly how much I made in China. Of course I calculated very carefully. And yes, I had to file for FACTA exemption too and it was a fraction of 100k cutoff. The U.S. CPA will want to know how much you paid in taxes towards the foreign country to reduce your taxes as much as possible.

Regarding Japanese taxes - I made like 1.12M Yen, but as a dependent I actually got a 100k Yen refund. And Yes, like you, I have various employers which means you have to file it and request from your employers the equivalent to the W2 from each. Also, regarding the tax residency change, I believe that is 5 years living here, not 3 like mentioned on this board. You would have to return to the states for something like 60+ days (don't remember how many) to keep the U.S. residency. I assume passport stamps will be sufficient in proving this.