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The Red Queen: Sex And The Evolution Of Human Nature

You mean the opposite right? Just consider the increasing chaos in the world right now. No system of governance last. A distribution of the world wealth is coming. Feminist only works in a stable environment. Nature is chaos.

Nah, it is all media hype and myth. If you look at the stats, the world is and has long been getting safer (less deaths by violence etc) and richer (smaller number of people living in poverty) and less economic gender biased (fraction of women supporting themselves increasing) etc. And in any case, as I specified in my post, I am specifically talking about the modern First World where nearly all of us and all PUAs live and date. The trends I mention are strongest in this environment.

Poor -Ww always taking things out of context.

I am many things, including many bad things perhaps, but poor isn't one of them...not in money, not in life satisfaction (I would hardly change a thing), not in richness of experiences and most certainly not in wonderful and satisfying relationships with women. I often feel, and say, that my whole life has been a torrent of unreasonable and apparently unending good luck. So, while I very much appreciate your sympathy, there's no need to worry about me; I'm doing just fine. If I somehow knew that I was going to die tomorrow, I'd have no complaints...what a joy it has been!

-Ww
 
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Nah, it is all media hype and myth. If you look at the stats, the world is and has long been getting safer (less deaths by violence etc) and richer (smaller number of people living in poverty) and less economic gender biased (fraction of women supporting themselves increasing) etc.

Since I know you (say you) like data and factual/scientific evidence, @4vibes , you might enjoy this set of charts:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-charts-to-be-thankful-for-this-thanksgiving/

The better off the world gets, the harder the powerful and most of the media need to work to make us worried and fearful in order to hold people in their thrall, but look at the data or just look at the world around you, and you see that things are getting better, fast.

-Ww
 
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Nah, it is all media hype and myth. If you look at the stats, the world is and has long been getting safer (less deaths by violence etc) and richer (smaller number of people living in poverty) and less economic gender biased (fraction of women supporting themselves increasing) etc. And in any case, as I specified in my post, I am specifically talking about the modern First World where nearly all of us and all PUAs live and date. The trends I mention are strongest in this environment.



I am many things, including many bad things perhaps, but poor isn't one of them...not in money, not in life satisfaction (I would hardly change a thing), not in richness of experiences and most certainly not in wonderful and satisfying relationships with women. I often feel, and say, that my whole life has been a torrent of unreasonable and apparently unending good luck. So, while I very much appreciate your sympathy, there's no need to worry about me; I'm doing just fine. If I somehow knew that I was going to die tomorrow, I'd have no complaints...what a joy it has been!

-Ww
In case you have not been following things in America, the people are not happy with the status quo. Its a symptom of the global economy. Europe- immigration, Turkey-terrorist, Middle East-war/terrorists, Iraq-terrorist, Crimea/Ukaraine-civil war, South China Sea-economy cold war, not including Africa. These are just things that affects America.

Your stats are old news. Most are at least 3 yrs old. Like the law of large numbers, all good things must return to the mean. Nature is chaotic. One thing about stats is that it is a lagging indicator. It can't predict what's ahead.
 
We'll see, but most of those are long term trends... Are they infallible indicators of what is to come. No, of course not. But they are better indicators than anything else available and most certainly better than the talking heads of the media who can explain anything and predict nothing.

And all the things/problems you mention in today's world are real enough, they are just less serious and more limited than the problems we passed through in the past.

-Ww
 
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We'll see, but most of those are long term trends... Are they infallible indicators of what is to come. No, of course not. But they are better indicators than anything else available and most certainly better than the talking heads of the media who can explain anything and predict nothing.

And all the things/problems you mention in today's world are real enough, they are just less serious and more limited than the problems we passed through in the past.

-Ww
Then I suggest you read the book before you post anymore. That's what men are for. There is also a study on asexual reproduction and how it failed.
 
Then I suggest you read the book before you post anymore.

Thanks for your suggestion. By now you perhaps have a fairly clear impressin of how seriously I take your opinions, advice and "wisdom". :rolleyes:

-Ww
 
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Geeks rule. Two of the riches men in America are Geeks: Gates & Buffet. Most if not all of top 0.5% in America are made of Geeks. Only Michael Jordon is the jocks among them.
Dear 4Vibes,
I'm a living example of a geek who managed his way on the social ladder.
I was rather unsuccessful in attracting women due to my lack of social skills / confidence in a social environment and my abhorrence for physical activity.
There is a lot of greatness in geeks thanks to their capacity to analyze data in a diligent way and in their ideal to take the right well argued decision.
If back at that time, I was given some technic to pick up women, I'm pretty sure I would have studied/ applied it carefully...
I'm not just sure I would have been more satisfied with my life. Worse it could have been a distraction in learning more about myself and developing my emotional intelligence.
 
Enough that you stop making stupid statements.

Not trying to be too much of a wise ass, especially given my pathetic history on PUA forums.

The term "stupid" is massively subjective.

0004423493_10.jpg

 
I'm not just sure I would have been more satisfied with my life. Worse it could have been a distraction in learning more about myself and developing my emotional intelligence.
Learning about oneself is the greatest benefit I got from getting into PUA. It pushes a person's to his limits. That is how growth is achieved. The women are the icing on the cake.
 
I'm a living example of a geek who managed his way on the social ladder. There is a lot of greatness in geeks thanks to their capacity to analyze data in a diligent way and in their ideal to take the right well argued decision.
If back at that time, I was given some technic to pick up women, I'm pretty sure I would have studied/ applied it carefully...Worse it could have been a distraction in learning more about myself and developing my emotional intelligence.

(picked out the relevant parts)

There you go again, earning that avatar. ;)
 
Indeed, it started this way. In some ways it was very much "revenge of the nerds" - men who had felt slighted and ignored by women all their lives "getting back" at them by using certain routines and techniques to get them into bed.



Magic tricks.. No. However there is both "life coaching" or inner game element, as well as outer game - certain ways of phrasing things and doing things which are more effective. I wouldn't put it quite at the level of manipulation, but certainly increased efficacy.

I'm actually not critical at all of the fact that it could be seen as a manipulation. Seduction had always a part of both way smooth "manipulation". Make-up, clothes, hiding your interest, teasing... As long as you are not blatantly lying and there is mutual consent, there is nothing imo to be blamed about. Honesty usually comes later in the process and requires the building of sound trust (which doesn't happen overnight).

I'm more concerned about the well-being of PUAs and PUAs wanabees.
The main reasons of the lack of attractiveness are usually the immaturity of the emotional intelligence (limited empathy, inability to notice facial and body expressions, inability to identify its own emotions, limited skills in handling a conversation) and more simply the physical aspect (A and H body shape versus V shape, cleanliness, elegance).
Giving tricks to immature people, imo would tend to give them new bad habits and to postpone them to face their real problem.

If a part of your focus is to improve their social skills / emotional intelligence, to gain confidence by encouraging their efforts in doing so, to spend some time in a gym to have their shoulders larger than their waist and to groom themself a minimum, that's another thing.
Please tell me when your book is ready.
 
I'm more concerned about the well-being of PUAs and PUAs wanabees.
...
Giving tricks to immature people, imo would tend to give them new bad habits and to postpone them to face their real problem.

I very much agree with this. There may well be blameless parts of gaming and even helpful parts; it is a virtual path to holiness to hear some tell it. However, much (most probably) of the material and ideas out there under the PUA "label" is harmful in a variety of ways to guys who take it seriously, as far as I can judge. Everyone can google and decide for themselves how much is about self-improvement and how much is about trying to get laid with psychological tricks/manipulations, pressure, misdirection (sometimes out right lying), pretending to be what one is not and so forth. Even the nearly universal announced goal of PUA/gaming (getting laid a lot, quickly etc) is a bad one in terms of maturing as a man and developing an ability to have meaningful/serious relationships with women.

If a part of your focus is to improve their social skills / emotional intelligence, to gain confidence by encouraging their efforts in doing so, to spend some time in a gym to have their shoulders larger than their waist and to groom themself a minimum, that's another thing.

And I very much agree with this too, and I hope that it is a more significant part of PUA/gaming than it appears to be from a distance. Other than the assertions of PUA advocates, I've seen little evidence for it myself...but maybe, let's hope so.

-Ww
 
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However, much (most probably) of the material and ideas out there under the PUA "label" is harmful in a variety of ways to guys who take it seriously, as far as I can judge. Everyone can google and decide for themselves how much is about self-improvement and how much is about trying to get laid with psychological tricks/manipulations, pressure, misdirection (sometimes out right lying), pretending to be what one is not and so forth. Even the nearly universal announced goal of PUA/gaming (getting laid a lot, quickly etc) is a bad one in terms of maturing as a man and developing an ability to have meaningful/serious relationships with women.
-Ww
Sounds like "sour grapes" to borrow a tag member's verbiage.

Lying??? Tricks??? That sounds like a nonPUA.

A PUA can make a woman so hot she can't wait to jump a guy's manhood. Just because we can please our women, you're angry?? I see the green monster in -Ww.
 
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Sounds like "sour grapes" to borrow a tag member's verbiage.

Lying??? Tricks??? That sounds like a nonPUA.

A PUA can make a woman so hot she can't wait to jump a guy's manhood. Just because we can please our women, you're angry?? I see the green monster in -Ww.
@4vibes, I don't want to patronize you but can we have a constructive dispassionate debate about the topic?
For the sake of the opinions you defend, you would gain a lot by not taking personally most comments and to be more balanced in your book reviews.
Otherwise, if you are too loud and excited, people will just tend to believe you're wrong without making the effort to listen to you.
To be listened (and also to get laid) you need a minimum of poise.

In that stance, @Sinapse and @Solong are definitely good advocates of their beliefs.
They are showing a maturity in the way they handle debates and expertise in their field.
 
For the sake of the opinions you defend, you would gain a lot by not taking personally most comments and to be more balanced in your book reviews.

Otherwise, if you are too loud and excited, people will just tend to believe you're wrong without making the effort to listen to you.
Let's look at the book. I pointed out that PUA is based on sound scientific foundation. Was it a book review? No. I was pointing out the facts.

Loud??? When I point out potential motive for mischaracterzation of PUA community. PUA gets results. A person grows as a man and gets the women he wants.

All I hear is complaints from the competition and feminist. That's what I get when I walk out of the club with a 10. Sour grapes like that.
 
Let's look at the book. I pointed out that PUA is based on sound scientific foundation. Was it a book review? No. I was pointing out the facts.

Loud??? When I point out potential motive for mischaracterzation of PUA community. PUA gets results. A person grows as a man and gets the women he wants.

All I hear is complaints from the competition and feminist. That's what I get when I walk out of the club with a 10. Sour grapes like that.

images.jpg


And BadVibes gets the award for the thread's best whine:

2be9db3bd3d0ed119152fa2ead8a0b1a.jpg
 
I'm more concerned about the well-being of PUAs and PUAs wanabees.
The main reasons of the lack of attractiveness are usually the immaturity of the emotional intelligence (limited empathy, inability to notice facial and body expressions, inability to identify its own emotions, limited skills in handling a conversation) and more simply the physical aspect (A and H body shape versus V shape, cleanliness, elegance).
Giving tricks to immature people, imo would tend to give them new bad habits and to postpone them to face their real problem.

If a part of your focus is to improve their social skills / emotional intelligence, to gain confidence by encouraging their efforts in doing so, to spend some time in a gym to have their shoulders larger than their waist and to groom themself a minimum, that's another thing.
Please tell me when your book is ready.

Communication is partially about what you mean to say and partially about how the other person interprets it. I think taking into account how what you say may be interpreted differently from how you intend it is important. Interestingly, I think it's this aspect that is often lumped in with cries of manipulation or trickery.

For example, let's assume you don't have much exposure to pets and animals but you quite like them. You go up to a dog or cat and reach out your hand to pet it - with nothing but the purest intentions. However, some dogs have been hit or mistreated by strangers so a sudden movement towards their head causes them to bark and bear their teeth or even bite you - or a cat to just run away. Someone comes along and says "Hey before you reach out to touch it's head, just put your hand out there so the animal can smell you for a second before going to pet the animal. That way, it's much less likely to view you as a threat and either lash out at you or run away"
The person takes on this knowledge - which could be considered empathy, or a greater understanding of the other parties (in this case a dog or cat) perspective, and goes forth for many years in the future happily petting animals and being bitten less.

This is almost exactly how I view pickup advice . Is it "manipulation" or "trickery"? I don't really think so. I see it as understanding both sides of the equation and acting with knowledge of both your intentions and how to best convey those intentions without (quite reasonable) misunderstanding on the other parties' part.

I do acknowledge that not all practitioners or students view it this way, and instead would love nothing more than the secret tricks to get her into your bed. I just think that ironically, the "devious tricks" work much better when you try to create and provide rather than steal and take - which is to say they stop being devious, yet are even more effective than before.

Ultimately the most important part of the equation is your intention. The behaviors will help you whether your intentions are pure or not, and, as many geeks have a lot of pent up frustration, they might be tempted to use techniques to "get revenge" for years of being slighted by the popular kids. However if the path is laid out properly (and this is why the spiritual aspect is important), they will gravitate towards the right mindset instead.
 
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A PUA can make a woman so hot she can't wait to jump a guy's manhood. Just because we can please our women, you're angry?? I see the green monster in -Ww.

You seem to be trying to guess something bad about me that is true, or true enough, that you can use it to upset, insult, embarrass or hurt me. There may be such things, but you aren't anywhere close yet, but feel free to keep guessing if you like.

If nothing else, it does help refute the idea that self-described PUAs are wise, mellow, charming and good-hearted people! :D

-Ww
 
You seem to be trying to guess something bad about me that is true, or true enough, that you can use it to upset, insult, embarrass or hurt me. There may be such things, but you aren't anywhere close yet, but feel free to keep guessing if you like.

If nothing else, it does help refute the idea that self-described PUAs are wise, mellow, charming and good-hearted people! :D

-Ww
Wise, mellow, charming, and good-hearted people.... well.... thank you????

PUA could care less about what you think. The fact you're trying very hard to mischaracterize PUA means you have issues with others success. Having regrets???? Old man????