United States - 2016 Election Thread

Who do you vote for? (Virtual Poll, Nothing Serious!)

  • Clinton

    Votes: 10 41.7%
  • Trump

    Votes: 8 33.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 6 25.0%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
You're the one with buyer's remorse, not me. And you're wrong, a person can agree with everything a candidate says. I was talking with someone at work and he was rationalizing Russian interference in this year's election. He also rationalized torture (you guessed it, he voted for Trump). Anything that Trump said (no matter how incoherent), he was ready to defend it. Your devotion to Trump has shows similar messianic levels of devotion. He hasn't even been appointed yet his bizarre tweets reveal someone completely unhinged from reality. His selections to the Cabinet so far show someone who's going to upend the entire government bureaucracy and not in a good way.

I find it hypocritical that Obama was recorded on a hot mic talking to one of Putin's advisers before the 2012 election saying "Well.... if I happen to get elected... maaaaaybe....*wink wink nudge nudge*" and Romney was mocked by the media and Obama for even implying that Russia interfered with the election. Yet now that Trump's in office, the media is going nuts with the whole Russia connection. There's about the same amount of proof of both incidents. The whole report from the CIA has been twisted around to fit the narrative that they interfered with the election. What it actually said was that they found proof Russia has hacked government agencies, some were linked to hackers connected to Putin's government in some way. They did not say that the DNC was one of those agencies that were hacked and linked back to the Russian government. They're pretty sure the DNC hacker was Russian, but have yet to find that link to Putin. Julian Assange pretty much said the same thing before the CIA even started investigating.

Wish I could say I was surprised though, the hypocrisy from both sides is ridiculous, and it's sad when I can listen to a media story and pretty much fact check their entire episode in minutes to find out that 90% of it was bullshit blown out of proportion. I agree with you that people need to be intellectually honest about their critiques, but that goes both ways.
 
I find it hypocritical that Obama was recorded on a hot mic talking to one of Putin's advisers before the 2012 election saying "Well.... if I happen to get elected... maaaaaybe....*wink wink nudge nudge*" and Romney was mocked by the media and Obama for even implying that Russia interfered with the election. Yet now that Trump's in office, the media is going nuts with the whole Russia connection. There's about the same amount of proof of both incidents. The whole report from the CIA has been twisted around to fit the narrative that they interfered with the election. What it actually said was that they found proof Russia has hacked government agencies, some were linked to hackers connected to Putin's government in some way. They did not say that the DNC was one of those agencies that were hacked and linked back to the Russian government. They're pretty sure the DNC hacker was Russian, but have yet to find that link to Putin. Julian Assange pretty much said the same thing before the CIA even started investigating.

Wish I could say I was surprised though, the hypocrisy from both sides is ridiculous, and it's sad when I can listen to a media story and pretty much fact check their entire episode in minutes to find out that 90% of it was bullshit blown out of proportion. I agree with you that people need to be intellectually honest about their critiques, but that goes both ways.

You're wrong. The hacker is actually a 400 pound bedridden guy. Donald Trump said so.

It's amazing that the CIA no less has said the Russians intervened in the election and the apologists are coming out of the woodwork to claim they didn't say that. Oh, and if they did say that there's no evidence linking it back to Putin, which doesn't make sense since no one in the Russian government would freelance without the permission of an autocrat like Putin signing off. Oh, and if he did sign off on it...false equivalence, Obama cut secret deals with Putin so everyone's a hypocrite, etc. I can turn on any major news outlet and the reporters will say unequivocally that the CIA believes the Russians intervened in the election to help Trump win. But of course you're telling me my hearing is bad. Then, you're going to counter with a link from the 'Hipsters Gun and Ammo Gazette' editorial page to contradict what we know to be true, so you'll show me the error of my ways.
 
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I looked around and I found a picture of the guy who actually hacked the DNCs email servers. Who knew?
 
Okay, you're clearly not looking for a discussion, you just want an echo chamber and a place to thump your chest.

I'm done with you.
 
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Okay, you're clearly not looking for a discussion, you just want an echo chamber and a place to thump your chest.

I'm done with you.

Of course you are. The fake news is catching up with you.
 
It'll be very interesting to see if that evidence ever sees the light of day. So far it's just a chain of probabilities, but stuff is starting to be hinted at now that they have "human intelligence" pointing the finger at Russian secret services directed by Putin. My guess is that if it ever comes out it'll be well after Trump's Inauguration.

It's pretty amazing that this would be a much bigger revelation than Watergate and it's not causing more outrage now that it's getting real press coverage. I guess the American public is too jaded and/or doesn't really know what to do in response.
 
It'll be very interesting to see if that evidence ever sees the light of day. So far it's just a chain of probabilities, but stuff is starting to be hinted at now that they have "human intelligence" pointing the finger at Russian secret services directed by Putin. My guess is that if it ever comes out it'll be well after Trump's Inauguration.

It's pretty amazing that this would be a much bigger revelation than Watergate and it's not causing more outrage now that it's getting real press coverage. I guess the American public is too jaded and/or doesn't really know what to do in response.

It will never see the light of day. Sources and methods (spies, technology, etc.) has the highest level of classification. It's not the information that's being protected, but how it was obtained that is.
 
It'll be very interesting to see if that evidence ever sees the light of day. So far it's just a chain of probabilities, but stuff is starting to be hinted at now that they have "human intelligence" pointing the finger at Russian secret services directed by Putin. My guess is that if it ever comes out it'll be well after Trump's Inauguration.

It's pretty amazing that this would be a much bigger revelation than Watergate and it's not causing more outrage now that it's getting real press coverage. I guess the American public is too jaded and/or doesn't really know what to do in response.

Yea, I would love to see the actual evidence. All I keep hearing from the "news" are assumptions and opinions based on public statements made by people who may not even have access to the evidence. That's why I find it hard to swallow what they're shoveling.

At the same time, I really don't care. The information released was real information. In some ways, I'm thankful to Russia for exposing Hillary for who she really is to the general public. I'd have more of an objection to this if the information was fake. Basically, I stole a candy bar, my friend rats me out to my parents, and I'm bitching about my parents for grounding me, and my friend for ratting me out. There's no self-reflection or acceptance of responsibility.
As for them not releasing anything about Trump? I think we got a pretty good idea of who Trump was in the past year and a half. The man doesn't have a filter between his mouth and brain. And he's been in the public eye for the past 40 years as a successful business man, a celebrity, etc, etc. When the hot mic video came out, I honestly wasn't surprised, so it really didn't change my opinion of him.
 
Yea, I would love to see the actual evidence. All I keep hearing from the "news" are assumptions and opinions based on public statements made by people who may not even have access to the evidence. That's why I find it hard to swallow what they're shoveling.

At the same time, I really don't care. The information released was real information. In some ways, I'm thankful to Russia for exposing Hillary for who she really is to the general public. I'd have more of an objection to this if the information was fake. Basically, I stole a candy bar, my friend rats me out to my parents, and I'm bitching about my parents for grounding me, and my friend for ratting me out. There's no self-reflection or acceptance of responsibility.
As for them not releasing anything about Trump? I think we got a pretty good idea of who Trump was in the past year and a half. The man doesn't have a filter between his mouth and brain. And he's been in the public eye for the past 40 years as a successful business man, a celebrity, etc, etc. When the hot mic video came out, I honestly wasn't surprised, so it really didn't change my opinion of him.

You probably believe that Obama was a Kenyan born implant because you can't hold his official birth certificate in your hands. Many Republicans believe he was born in Kenya to this day, regardless of how many times the MSM reports otherwise. So your 'skepticism' doesn't surprise me. I believe the Earth is round even though I have never seen it from space because I have to believe what others have written. I doubt there would any level of proof that would change your 'mind.'

Likewise, it's amazing that all of sudden, Russia is okay with Republicans! Sure, spy on us, meddle in our elections, invade other countries, indiscriminately bomb civilians! It's all good! If you take the Wikileaks information at face value, then you're a fool. The Russians are running an (dis)information campaign against the US, so without the ability to authenticate the emails, anything could have easily been altered (and certainly would have been if it suited the strategic goals of the Russians). Don't believe me? Watch the garbage news stories on RT (Russian Today) television, which is a propaganda arm of the Russian government. RT is the tip of the Russian information campaign.

IMO, the Russians have something on Trump. My guess, he's financed in part by Russian money. That's because he's a horrible businessman, and can't get regular financing like a successful businessman. He's relied on investment banking and who knows what else to finance his projects. Yes, we don't know, because his businesses are private corporations that aren't required to disclose information like a publicly traded corporation (he burned his investors and ran the only publicly traded company he was in charge of into the ground). Maybe if he dares to anger his Russian overlords they'll burn him by releasing embarrassing financial information. Time will tell.
 
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You probably believe that Obama was a Kenyan born implant because you can't hold his official birth certificate in your hands. Many Republicans believe he was born in Kenya to this day, regardless of how many times the MSM reports otherwise. So your 'skepticism' doesn't surprise me. I believe the Earth is round even though I have never seen it from space because I have to believe what others have written. I doubt there would any level of proof that would change your 'mind.'
Likewise, I'm sure no matter how much proof is put in front of you, Hillary would still be your saint and savior. No, I don't believe Obama is a Kenyan, nor do I think he's a Muslim. Thanks for bringing up that straw man.

I like to take the videos of Hillary lying, flip flopping more than the footwear of the same name, screwing over the Haitian people, public shaming of rape victims, and the whole host of other scandals under her name, spoken BY HER on camera. Hell, I'll take the first hand accounts of her former secret service agent who wrote a whole book about how fucked up she is. Funny thing, all of those are things from when she was the first lady, we're not even talking about her time as Secretary of State (okay, Haiti was while she was SoS)! But none of that means anything to you, I'm sure. Just like I'm sure you blame Bush for the economic crash in 2001-02. See, I can do straw man's too!

That's why discussing issues with you is a waste of time. Your mind is already made up and the only thing you can do is throw out straw man arguments and ad-hominem attacks. If you can show me one shred of evidence questioning the validity of the leaked e-mails, I'll be happy to discuss it with you. However, I've never seen anything even close to that. What I have seen are people trying to deflect, like CNN telling people on live TV that they can't read wikileaks, only the media is allowed to, or even the current trend of blaming thing on the Russians. No one has ever questioned or denied their validity. Hell, Hillary had a fantastic opportunity during the debates when specific content was brought up, and instead she tried to explain her comments. Remember her whole honest Abe analogy? That doesn't sound like a denial, hell, that's an admission of it's validity.

But hey, allow me to quote Obama from 4 years ago, "The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because…the Cold War’s been over for 20 years.”

Likewise, it's amazing that all of sudden, Russia is okay with Republicans! Sure, spy on us, meddle in our elections, invade other countries, indiscriminately bomb civilians! It's all good! If you take the Wikileaks information at face value, then you're a fool. The Russians are running an (dis)information campaign against the US, so without the ability to authenticate the emails, anything could have easily been altered (and certainly would have been if it suited the strategic goals of the Russians). Don't believe me? Watch the garbage news stories on RT (Russian Today) television, which is a propaganda arm of the Russian government. RT is the tip of the Russian information campaign.

I watch Daily Wire and Rubin Report, personally. See, I like them because they actually cite their sources, with things like pew research data and government statistics, and they're not extreme in either direction. Rubin is center left, DW is center right. They're not screaming matches, they're actual discussions. You know, like civilized adults. Hell of a lot better than the other garbage out there like The View, Fox, CNN, etc. I watched one episode of The View and it was just 4 shrieking banshees shouting down one guest. Sad because I used to like Whoopie, and they're usually wrong about what they're arguing about. I especially loved her comment about "No one uses an AR-15 for hunting!!!" yet if you look at the stats, the AR-15 is the most popular hunting rifle in the country. *face palm*

And yet, none of what you said here has anything to do with the validity of the information. I don't like Russia, I'm not okay with a lot of the things Putin does, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate when they do something that exposes corruption in my own country's government. That's the whole point of wikileaks, exposing corruption around the world. Like exposing the torture and cruelty at Gitmo, which is what put them on the radar. Or Snowden exposing the NSA's spying on US citizens. I don't care where the information came from, as long as it's accurate. It's also painfully obvious that Russia only released the information in their own self interest. I don't know anyone who doesn't act in their own self interest. Yes, I'm sure Trump is better for Russia than Hillary. And? Does a stronger Russia hurt America? No, I think Obama has done more damage to America than Russia can.

IMO, the Russians have something on Trump. My guess, he's financed in part by Russian money. That's because he's a horrible businessman, and can't get regular financing like a successful businessman. He's relied on investment banking and who knows what else to finance his projects. Yes, we don't know, because his businesses are private corporations that aren't required to disclose information like a publicly traded corporation (he burned his investors and ran the only publicly traded company he was in charge of into the ground). Maybe if he dares to anger his Russian overlords they'll burn him by releasing embarrassing financial information. Time will tell.

Pure speculation with zero evidence on your end. And you call me a fool for believing in the leaked e-mails and speeches that Hillary and her campaign have never denied. C'mon man, at least be consistent.
 
Likewise, I'm sure no matter how much proof is put in front of you, Hillary would still be your saint and savior. No, I don't believe Obama is a Kenyan, nor do I think he's a Muslim. Thanks for bringing up that straw man.

I like to take the videos of Hillary lying, flip flopping more than the footwear of the same name, screwing over the Haitian people, public shaming of rape victims, and the whole host of other scandals under her name, spoken BY HER on camera. Hell, I'll take the first hand accounts of her former secret service agent who wrote a whole book about how fucked up she is. Funny thing, all of those are things from when she was the first lady, we're not even talking about her time as Secretary of State (okay, Haiti was while she was SoS)! But none of that means anything to you, I'm sure. Just like I'm sure you blame Bush for the economic crash in 2001-02. See, I can do straw man's too!

That's why discussing issues with you is a waste of time. Your mind is already made up and the only thing you can do is throw out straw man arguments and ad-hominem attacks. If you can show me one shred of evidence questioning the validity of the leaked e-mails, I'll be happy to discuss it with you. However, I've never seen anything even close to that. What I have seen are people trying to deflect, like CNN telling people on live TV that they can't read wikileaks, only the media is allowed to, or even the current trend of blaming thing on the Russians. No one has ever questioned or denied their validity. Hell, Hillary had a fantastic opportunity during the debates when specific content was brought up, and instead she tried to explain her comments. Remember her whole honest Abe analogy? That doesn't sound like a denial, hell, that's an admission of it's validity.

But hey, allow me to quote Obama from 4 years ago, "The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because…the Cold War’s been over for 20 years.”



I watch Daily Wire and Rubin Report, personally. See, I like them because they actually cite their sources, with things like pew research data and government statistics, and they're not extreme in either direction. Rubin is center left, DW is center right. They're not screaming matches, they're actual discussions. You know, like civilized adults. Hell of a lot better than the other garbage out there like The View, Fox, CNN, etc. I watched one episode of The View and it was just 4 shrieking banshees shouting down one guest. Sad because I used to like Whoopie, and they're usually wrong about what they're arguing about. I especially loved her comment about "No one uses an AR-15 for hunting!!!" yet if you look at the stats, the AR-15 is the most popular hunting rifle in the country. *face palm*

And yet, none of what you said here has anything to do with the validity of the information. I don't like Russia, I'm not okay with a lot of the things Putin does, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate when they do something that exposes corruption in my own country's government. That's the whole point of wikileaks, exposing corruption around the world. Like exposing the torture and cruelty at Gitmo, which is what put them on the radar. Or Snowden exposing the NSA's spying on US citizens. I don't care where the information came from, as long as it's accurate. It's also painfully obvious that Russia only released the information in their own self interest. I don't know anyone who doesn't act in their own self interest. Yes, I'm sure Trump is better for Russia than Hillary. And? Does a stronger Russia hurt America? No, I think Obama has done more damage to America than Russia can.



Pure speculation with zero evidence on your end. And you call me a fool for believing in the leaked e-mails and speeches that Hillary and her campaign have never denied. C'mon man, at least be consistent.

Yada Yada, straw man arguments and ad-hominem attacks, The View (really?), AR-15s (again, really?), Hillary, Hillary, Hillary! You're all over the place with your post. You can't answer an argument so you throw more crazy crap than I have the patience to answer. You've obviously been waiting around to throw Whoopie under the bus, so you worked her into your crazy rant. This sounds like the stuff I hear the crazy people shouting on the streets of New York that I pretend I don't see as quickly try to walk away from them before they can give me a pamphlet or ask me for money.

Now, let's get to the facts. You wrote "In some ways, I'm thankful to Russia for exposing Hillary". You were targeted by the Russian information campaign, just like the all the gullible Americans who let themselves get targeted by it as well during the campaign. Russia 1, USA 0. It's amazing the lengths you've stretched yourself in the defense of the Russians! You don't believe a word the CIA says, our political leaders (Democratic or Republican) or the mainstream media, but everything that the Russians released to Wikileaks you accept without question unless someone can show proof otherwise. You wrote this.

Let me mansplain this to you since you are obviously technologically illiterate: once a (hacked) email goes through a third party (the Russians) it is impossible to verify the integrity (i.e. that the data has been unaltered) of those messages. However, I guess you win this argument. I can't provide evidence (or otherwise disprove a negative) that those upstanding Russians that you now love, admire and respect, out of the goodness of their hearts, didn't alter or edit any of the maliciously hacked DNC emails that they passed to Wikileaks.

Don't believe the Russians are adversaries? Got it. But you do know that we have American troops in Europe now, training with NATO partners against possible Russian aggression? You should tell all the Americans over there in East Europe now that the Russians aren't a threat. But of course that's irrelevant. Obama is the greater danger (huh?) since he's done more damage than the Russians (huh again). Which side are you going to root for when the shooting starts? If Obama is still President, are you going to hope the Russians win?

BTW, when I begin a sentence with IMO, I'm taking ownership for it! I'm admitting I don't have proof! That's what "IMO' and "my guess" mean! I, unlike you, don't have the luxury of having everything I write backed by the 'Alt-Hipster Hate Quarterly' like you do. Plus the only speculation on my part was Trump being in the pocket of Russian lenders. There's reams of articles written on his multiple bankruptcies and business mismanagement floating around out there. However, it is written by the MSM so none of it could possibly be true.

So my final question to you is: next 4th of July, when you unfurl the Russian flag and sing the Russian anthem before eating barbecue and hot dogs, does the Russian flag go on the left or the right side of the American flag?
 
" I don't think anybody knows it was Russia that broke into the DNC. [Hillary is] saying Russia, Russia, Russia, but I don't — maybe it was. I mean, it could be Russia, but it could also be China. It could also be lots of other people. It also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, okay?" -- Donald Trump

fat-bastard.jpg


Okay, I think I found the picture of the guy who really hacked the DNC email servers.
 
You're the one with buyer's remorse, not me. And you're wrong, a person can agree with everything a candidate says. I was talking with someone at work and he was rationalizing Russian interference in this year's election. He also rationalized torture (you guessed it, he voted for Trump). Anything that Trump said (no matter how incoherent), he was ready to defend it. Your devotion to Trump has shows similar messianic levels of devotion. He hasn't even been appointed yet his bizarre tweets reveal someone completely unhinged from reality. His selections to the Cabinet so far show someone who's going to upend the entire government bureaucracy and not in a good way.
True, a person can agree with everything a candidate says. I meant and should have written: a person does not have to agree with every thing a candidate says even though the person voted for him.

"Your devotion to Trump has shows similar messianic levels of devotion". If that is your impression then so be it. But we could say the exact thing about you. If someone thinks he is right and you cannot convince he is wrong, then why do you have to insult him with messianic levels of devotion? Why are you so sure that you are right? What you are thinking is just an opinion.

There are some points about Trump I like. But if I find something disturbing about him then I post about that too (which I did twice).

Everyone thinks they are right but you can respect that others have a different opinion. And I know that I can be wrong too. My opinions change all the time based on new things that I read.
 
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Let me mansplain this to you since you are obviously technologically illiterate: once a (hacked) email goes through a third party (the Russians) it is impossible to verify the integrity (i.e. that the data has been unaltered) of those messages. However, I guess you win this argument. I can't provide evidence (or otherwise disprove a negative) that those upstanding Russians that you now love, admire and respect, out of the goodness of their hearts, didn't alter or edit any of the maliciously hacked DNC emails that they passed to Wikileaks.
Because I am also technologically illiterate and I don't know if you are really a computer security PhD, I had to look it up on Google.

This article might be fake news or tl;dr for you but it seems reasonable and balanced.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...inton-wikileaks-emails-doctored-or-are-they-/

"We do know, though, that no one has doctored this particular email. Well-known hacker Robert Graham verified the email’s digital signature, a tool email providers use to confirm that an email actually came from the provider’s server without alteration.

These digital signatures are embedded in the raw sources available on the WikiLeaks website and can be used to "concretely prove that many of the emails in the Wikileaks dump are undoctored," said cybersecurity consultant Matt Tait.

However, some of the emails in the WikiLeaks dump — especially among emails sent to Podesta — don’t have these signatures and can’t be technically verified. And digital signature verification wouldn’t detect tampering by omission, like if the hackers were to withhold certain emails.

"Therefore my conclusion remains the same: Tim Kaine is at least partially wrong here," Tait said. "We know for sure that John Podesta was hacked, and we know for sure that many of his real emails have been published via Wikileaks. But his caution isn't entirely unfair."


This is from the Washington Post (real news). "The CIA has “high confidence” that the Russian government helped the campaign of Donald Trump."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...russia-hacking-so-far/?utm_term=.ca20e6362011
And the FBI doesn't agree. Now what?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...dfadfa-bef0-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html
 
Yea, see, posts like that are a waste of time. Nothing but some assumption of my beliefs and background as a hope to insult me, all a poor attempt to distract from the fact that he has no evidence to support anything he's said thus far. It's people like him that caused Trump to win and the alt-right to be born. People are tired of having baseless insults thrown at them. Jonathan Pie gets it:


And yea, it's really easy to verify if an e-mail is real or not. Ask the author? I have yet to hear Podesta deny the authenticity of anything sent, despite being questioned and having ample opportunity to do so. In fact, they have doubled down trying to explain the content of the e-mail and why it was okay. Hell, anyone who has the original DNC e-mails can do simple string comparisons and verify the validity of the information. As far as I know, no one has wiped the DNC servers, so it should be a pretty easy thing to do. Hell, we do this type of thing in school when checking for plagiarism on college essays. It's how the FBI managed to get through Anthony Wiener's e-mails in days. However, no crimes were admitted in the e-mails thus giving the FBI no grounds to investigate, simply what a disgusting candidate Hillary was/is. The Project Veritas videos however, by the argument I point out below, could have been doctored. Yet, days after the videos were released, Bob Creamer and Scott Forval were fired, lending credibility to their validity. If the FBI felt so inclined, they could likely investigate to find hard evidence of wrong doing, but for a private voter making a decision, there is certainly enough in the Clinton's history to suggest that there may be some truth to the videos. If they're not enough to convince you, I wouldn't criticize you for it, but I wouldn't criticize someone for holding the opinion that Hillary is corrupt as hell, since there's more than enough evidence to reach that conclusion. The most difficult part about this entire election was that the media was 90% on Hillary's side, and remains 90% anti-Trump. It's very difficult to find accurate information anymore, but I've found a lot of the independent media outlets on youtube are getting a lot more things factually correct, and actually source their arguments, enabling listeners to do their own research. Hell, before this election, Brietbart was a really good news source while it was handled under Andrew Brietbart. It wasn't until Bannon took over that it became the equivalent of Vox.

What's funny about all of this, when Trump's famous pussy grabber video was aired, no one questioned the authenticity of it or the audio recorded. Speech pattern software and voice replication software has come a long way (oh wait, I'm technologically illiterate, I can't say that despite having worked in IT for 10+ years doing help desk and network security, and being a hobbyist programmer for twice that!). Hell, there are consumer versions of voice packs that you can make into anything you want (Vocaloid is a nice example of this, with Hatsune Miku and all her friends), and then use audio editing software (doable with audacity, freeware 4tw) to clean it up and make it pretty darned close to the real thing. Hell, we've had voice altering devices (See the entire Scream series), voice changing apps on our phones with celebrity voice impersonations (Samuel L Jackson's voicemail recording when Snakes on a Plane was released). The damning parts of Trump's dialogue was entirely filmed inside the bus where you couldn't see how well it synced up to his lips, and even lip syncing isn't that difficult (I've done it for lessons at my school). Hell, I could have come up with something passable, and I'm an amateur compared to the guys out there. We couldn't have known it was authentic until it was verified by Trump and the other guy (who's name I can't remember), yet if anyone, including Trump, had called it a conspiracy by <insert group here>, it would have been laughed at.

And again, yes, Russia gained by having Trump in office. Yes, Russia is not our friend and they're a bad place for people wanting to challenge the status quo. Putin is a bully, as described by both sides of the aisle. It doesn't change the validity of the material they released. I don't see why that's such a difficult concept to understand. You've basically dismissed every piece of evidence against Hillary as conspiracy because it challenges your impression of her. Here's the thing, I don't support Trump. I don't support Hillary, I don't care about either. I'm certainly not a member of the alt-right, I'm far closer to a libertarian/conservative in my beliefs. The only thing I care about is intellectual honesty and the truth. You're touting off a lot of things as fact that are simply reaction opinions of pundits on MSM outlets touted off as facts, not facts. Maybe they're right, maybe they're not. Personally, with the amount of evidence available to me, I cannot reach the conclusion you have. Again, I'm not entirely sure what's so difficult to understand about that.
 
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This is more entertaining than reading the real news. :whistle:

How can you like this stuff and get bored and bothered by my even more entertaining and equally repetitive posts in the PUA wars???? :confused::eek:o_O:cry:

I'm not sure, but you may have hurt my feelings! :unsure:

-Ww
 
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Simply put I will tell you why the Dems lost. They are a bunch of pussified, liberal elitist, safespace, back stabbing, refuse to see the other sides pov, dumbshit, backstabbing, gimmick voting motherfuckers. I say this as a registered democrat. Trump won by flipping 3 states from blue to red, and not just any blue states, but DEEPLY blue states. He won because the Dems used to be a party for the working class and they lost touch with the working class. The same damn thing happened with Brexit, Labour Party lost touch with it's base and instead climbed into bed with liberal elitist who wanted to line their own pockets. Instead of focusing on issues that effect the common worker, they focused on issues such as safespaces, hate speech, feminism, racism, etc... Look at the debates and how the media was saying that Kilary won the debates. All she did was keep bringing up the safe space bullshit mentality and accuse Trump of being a racist. She underestimated her opponent and instead focused on city votes rather then campaigning in rural and industrial areas of the country where Trump beat hilary hands down. She pandered to women and the minority vote. But the biggest reason why the Dems lost this election and I am soooooo happy that they did was because they fucked over the candidate that the people wanted of Bernie Sanders. The Super Delegates who are political insiders or liberal elitist who believe they know what is best for the party fucked us! They are as much to blame for Trumps popularity among his party, what is funny is that the media was saying that this will be the end of the GOP when in reality this is the end of the Dems. This is a bitter hard pill that we have to swallow and a pill that Dems have refused to swallow since 2010. We have lost more State Senate and legislative seats than you can imagine, the house is republican, the senate is republican and over 30 of the 50 states governors are republican. The dems have not adapted and have refused to change and they deserve exactly this. Maybe you should I don't know actively engage people in debate maybe see their point of view instead of calling someone who doesn't agree with you sexist, racist, or xenophobic because as the video that was posted here said, "You get Donald Trump and Brexit."
 
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I wish dems would sit down and stop fighting this fucking fight of trying to prevent Trump getting into office. He won get over it, focus on the fact of how you lost, go back and hit the fricking ground running. The party used to be the party of the working class and people who didn't have a voice or the funding and guts to stand up to the elitist of Washington who at the time were rich white people and more often then not they were Republicans. They stop focusing on the issues and got into bed with the Media and Hollywood and lost all touch with what it meant to fight for the working class. The people in the inner cities, industrial areas, the farmers. They began to lose State legislative seats and State senate seats in mass so much so that it is ridiculous and the fact that you have Heartbeat bill going through the Ohio State house and senate shows just how much the dems fucked themselves. They continued to lose seats in the House and Senate and lost more and more states to republican governors. The dems need to refocus themselves and start worrying about getting all of which they lost, reinvent themselves and learn from their mistakes, because right now they are refusing to change and are still accepting of the old guard of the liberal elitist which came in to power with Clinton himself and gained even more power with Obama. If they do not do this, we will have 8 years of Trump they will lose more seats in the house and senate and this country will become a GOP nation.
 
People like phil get instantly unfriended on my social media and ignored on TAG. If I wanted to listen to garbage, I'd watch American news.