[Video] Is prostitution ok for Japan

I am just a bit confused.. The man talks about prostitution, and you all bombard his castle. Yet the word "prostitute" has never hit this forum. I hear "provider", and never "prostitute". So for my confusion, I pop the question to make sure...

You make very clear differentiation between prostitutes of will, to those coerced Notwithstanding the definition of the above two I just want to make sure if there is a distinction between prostitute and provider. And if there is none, then what in God's name do you want with this man?
Imo “prostitute” is a somewhat outdated and insulting term. “Sex worker”, or “provider” in a more specific conversation, would be the right term for everyone working willingly in the industry, also people who just do it as a means of survival and don’t enjoy it.
People who are being forced are a bit different and should be referred to as “trafficking victims” i think.
 
Let's be honest here, man. We call them "providers", because if we called them "prostitutes", that would make us "clients". And were they "whores" or "escorts", we would be "Johns". So the well-being of any of these women is the last (in MY opinion) thing these writers are concerned about.

This is why I was so adamant on setting the record on the name. If they are whores (and let's face it, it is what they are, eventually), than what does it make YOU? If they are "providers", then what are we? "consumers"? maybe "QC on loan"? We are NOT.

And that goes NOWHERE to determine the legitimate aspects of this trade. They are TOTALLY subjective, as long as there is nothing is done against anyone's will (and that is a totally different topic).
Calling providers “whores” because thats what they are is like calling homosexuals the F word or black people the N word. Maybe it may be a word thats used to describe those people but its very insulting especially when used by people who have no business using it.

I think you should watch your tone, not for whatever that makes you but out of respect for others.
 
Calling providers “whores” because thats what they are is like calling homosexuals the F word or black people the N word. Maybe it may be a word thats used to describe those people but its very insulting especially when used by people who have no business using it.

I think you should watch your tone, not for whatever that makes you but out of respect for others.
I was certain it will provoke this kind of response. I think you missed the point by a long shot. All I was trying to show was the reflective nature of the response to an idiotic, hollow and superficial video, that in the first place was not supposed to have caused any response at all. It was provocative, and as such, it brought out so much of the luggage each and every one here carries on his or her own back. I was trying to be provocative in the same sense, so that people will stop acting with the same handicaps they crown others with, and stop calling others "hypocrite", while being exactly the same.

As I said before, I come from a country with the worst rate and intensity of sex-trafficking in the modern "civilized" world. I have worked closely with organizations fighting this ugly industry. I have, and still am, involved in projects of rehabilitation for women who were drawn into this world, not by force and rape, but by their tragic life-stories. So when people try and draw a line between a party-girl who decides to leverage her "assets" into an income, it has nothing to do with the industry, and it raises other questions, which are all morally subjective, and are a matter of exchange of opinions. But when people here leave Tokyo and go to Bangkok, Jakarta, any on the Vietnam cities and every other corner of the developing world, they don't have the luxury of coming across independent women, who at least try and get full grip on their lives (regardless of their success rate. That, again, is none of anyone's business). But when they call themselves by forgiving names, they also name their victims (and trust me, you would not stop crying if you heard these stories) by cute names, such as "spinners". And that was the target of my statement. It's definitely not about you, so don't get all emotional on me. It's possibly not about any of the girls people on this forum meet in Tokyo. But you confine yourself to the elite clientele of Tokyo. Some of these dudes pound mercilessly young women in Asian cities, without the minimum courtesy of trying to ask or verify where they came from, and what has brought them into this line of work.

You don't need to get raped in order to enter life as a sex-worker. You don't even have to be molested. It's helpful, but not even necessary to have self image that is lower than the dead sea. But take the combination of any of the above, put on top the structure and power play of the societies from which they come, add their respective life-story, and you start getting a picture that is far from the flattering image of "punters" and "spinners".

And I was not even talking about sex-trafficking. That's the easy "we-don't-do-it-it's-immoral" shit. But how can you know? You start to know, when you make distinctions. You, my dear, are a true escort (for the matter of discussion. It's not about exact definitions, but about distinctions). That means you select your clients, you discuss and determine with them the details of the contract, and you fulfill your end of the bargain. Legitimate? within the confines of this discussion, 100%. At the other hand, there those "spinners", and they are in ZERO leverage over their lives. They are operated, driven to their work by people who take advantage over their situation. You don;t know that when you visit them. They don't cry. They just try and make it through their days. And when people call them cute names, and are giving themselves slack for "giving pleasure" to a "spinner", they have no idea what is running in the background. And they don't WANT to know. So they hide behind these "euphemisms". It doesn't make it right, dear Alice. I am not judging ANY girl or woman who enters this world, willingly, forcefully, by means of manipulation or by life itself. I do, however, tend to see many of the men I meet, here, on other sites and in closed discussions, as much much more hypocrites than the one loser provocateur who published a no-good two-bit provocation of a video, that has touched so many open nerves here.

Hope I'm just a tad clearer.
 
I am just a bit confused.. The man talks about prostitution, and you all bombard his castle. Yet the word "prostitute" has never hit this forum. I hear "provider", and never "prostitute". So for my confusion, I pop the question to make sure...

You make very clear differentiation between prostitutes of will, to those coerced Notwithstanding the definition of the above two I just want to make sure if there is a distinction between prostitute and provider. And if there is none, then what in God's name do you want with this man?

I don't know why you're so hung up on this.
My understanding is that it all falls under the umbrella of "prostitution". However, some of us don't use the word "prostitute", because it's a word that for whatever reason has negative connotations to it. And that's okay. Language is always evolving. It's how people say "server" instead of "waitress" or "flight attendant" instead of "stewardess".
As for "escorts", I'd say that while they fall under the umbrella of "prostitution", they're a subset of sex workers that provide a more complete experience, and are often more professional and provide a higher level of service. I wouldn't call a streetwalker an "escort". Having said that, I don't know what the technical usage of these words are. Who cares? People use words differently. If the majority of the ladies on TAG said they didn't like the word "escort", I'm sure that word would fall out of usage over time too.
The only point I was making waaaay back in the thread before we started worrying about words was that I would personally only want to use a lady who had chosen this profession for herself, and not someone who was trafficked into it.
 
I was certain it will provoke this kind of response. I think you missed the point by a long shot. All I was trying to show was the reflective nature of the response to an idiotic, hollow and superficial video, that in the first place was not supposed to have caused any response at all. It was provocative, and as such, it brought out so much of the luggage each and every one here carries on his or her own back. I was trying to be provocative in the same sense, so that people will stop acting with the same handicaps they crown others with, and stop calling others "hypocrite", while being exactly the same.

As I said before, I come from a country with the worst rate and intensity of sex-trafficking in the modern "civilized" world. I have worked closely with organizations fighting this ugly industry. I have, and still am, involved in projects of rehabilitation for women who were drawn into this world, not by force and rape, but by their tragic life-stories. So when people try and draw a line between a party-girl who decides to leverage her "assets" into an income, it has nothing to do with the industry, and it raises other questions, which are all morally subjective, and are a matter of exchange of opinions. But when people here leave Tokyo and go to Bangkok, Jakarta, any on the Vietnam cities and every other corner of the developing world, they don't have the luxury of coming across independent women, who at least try and get full grip on their lives (regardless of their success rate. That, again, is none of anyone's business). But when they call themselves by forgiving names, they also name their victims (and trust me, you would not stop crying if you heard these stories) by cute names, such as "spinners". And that was the target of my statement. It's definitely not about you, so don't get all emotional on me. It's possibly not about any of the girls people on this forum meet in Tokyo. But you confine yourself to the elite clientele of Tokyo. Some of these dudes pound mercilessly young women in Asian cities, without the minimum courtesy of trying to ask or verify where they came from, and what has brought them into this line of work.

You don't need to get raped in order to enter life as a sex-worker. You don't even have to be molested. It's helpful, but not even necessary to have self image that is lower than the dead sea. But take the combination of any of the above, put on top the structure and power play of the societies from which they come, add their respective life-story, and you start getting a picture that is far from the flattering image of "punters" and "spinners".

And I was not even talking about sex-trafficking. That's the easy "we-don't-do-it-it's-immoral" shit. But how can you know? You start to know, when you make distinctions. You, my dear, are a true escort (for the matter of discussion. It's not about exact definitions, but about distinctions). That means you select your clients, you discuss and determine with them the details of the contract, and you fulfill your end of the bargain. Legitimate? within the confines of this discussion, 100%. At the other hand, there those "spinners", and they are in ZERO leverage over their lives. They are operated, driven to their work by people who take advantage over their situation. You don;t know that when you visit them. They don't cry. They just try and make it through their days. And when people call them cute names, and are giving themselves slack for "giving pleasure" to a "spinner", they have no idea what is running in the background. And they don't WANT to know. So they hide behind these "euphemisms". It doesn't make it right, dear Alice. I am not judging ANY girl or woman who enters this world, willingly, forcefully, by means of manipulation or by life itself. I do, however, tend to see many of the men I meet, here, on other sites and in closed discussions, as much much more hypocrites than the one loser provocateur who published a no-good two-bit provocation of a video, that has touched so many open nerves here.

Hope I'm just a tad clearer.

Alright, you posted your previous post while I was writing mine. I guess I see where you're coming from. But the video is talking about prostitution in Japan in a general sense, so you can't say that it wasn't about them either. Obviously people on this site are going to have a reaction to it, that's obvious.
I'll reiterate again what I said before: I have zero problem with a woman choosing this profession. And I'm happy to make use of their services and enjoy their company.
I do have a problem with people being forced into it. Now you're trying to suggest that there's no way to know if it was their choice or not. If that's what it takes, stay away from the sex industry in those countries/places. Hire independents or go to places you know ladies work by choice. I honestly don't think it's that hard.
 
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Hope I'm just a tad clearer.

Yeah, you are a good person and a saviour. And while we are on it let's just stop eating meat because people in shithole countries mistreat animals.
 
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I don't know why you're so hung up on this.
My understanding is that it all falls under the umbrella of "prostitution". However, some of us don't use the word "prostitute", because it's a word that for whatever reason has negative connotations to it. And that's okay. Language is always evolving. It's how people say "server" instead of "waitress" or "flight attendant" instead of "stewardess".
As for "escorts", I'd say that while they fall under the umbrella of "prostitution", they're a subset of sex workers that provide a more complete experience, and are often more professional and provide a higher level of service. I wouldn't call a streetwalker an "escort". Having said that, I don't know what the technical usage of these words are. Who cares? People use words differently. If the majority of the ladies on TAG said they didn't like the word "escort", I'm sure that word would fall out of usage over time too.
The only point I was making waaaay back in the thread before we started worrying about words was that I would personally only want to use a lady who had chosen this profession for herself, and not someone who was trafficked into it.

I agree and I think everyone posting here are more or less on the same page.

Words evoke different things to different people, for instance I don’t like the term “sex worker”. It’s not like I find it demeaning but it’s simply not enough to describe what I do. On the other hand activists prefer the terms “sex worker” or “provider”, because it acknowledges the nature of the work rather than defining a social status. Makes sense. Nowadays younger girls can easily spell “b****” or “ho” because they are getting more and more mainstream, but I can feel blood rushing to my cheeks before I use such words.

I don’t want to be called prostitute either, not because I find it deragotary (actually I have a disdain for deragotary terms and profanity) but because it doesn’t describe “me”. It’s a pretty old fashioned term tbh. Escort is fine with me, because I’m escorting a person at all times regardless of the content of my role that night. “W****” is definitely unacceptable.

Human trafficking may not be very easy to detect. In my opinion, if someone is promised modeling work and they are now hostessing in a night club, that’s human trafficking. Or if a girl is promised to make a salary out of blow jobs and she’s now forced to provide full sex until they make enough cash to go back home, they are also being trafficked. That’s fraud and theyw are initially deceived to believe they will work under different circumstances. People react very different to trauma. Some will react immediately, some can suffer from PTSD and they may not reveal what they are going through when it’s actually happening.
 
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On all the semantic issues discussed in this thread, I generally agree with the things @User#8628, @Viggagadye, @MissInsomnia (!), and @Simonka say in the last several posts (starting with this one - https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/video-is-prostitution-ok-for-japan.19731/page-4#post-185330 ). One minor difference is that I don't consider "prostitute" to be negative or insulting, just a bit too formal/legalistic/dated...the sort of word you might find in a textbook or academic study rather than hear on the street or in informal conversations. The reason may well be my age; perhaps "prostitute" has picked up negative connotations in recent times. That tends to happen to words which designated people who are stigmatized or looked down on even if the words did not start out with such an implication.

@gentletouch - Your posts seem a bit wigged ou (hysterical)t to me. I hope and think that we all share your abhorrence for and horror at sexual human trafficking and forced sex work, but I can't see why the use of a variety of terms for prostitutes and prostitution and their customers is a particularly big deal or a significant part of the problem. And the idea that mongers cringe away from having to consider themselves clients or johns or whatever seems laughable. Certainly no monger I know well is at all worried about such words. All that said, I very much applaud whatever efforts you have made to help women caught in the sorts of situations you describe; it sounds like your heart is in the right place and that you are attempting to do good in the world...too few do of course. But do keep in mind that when you stare into dark places, they stare back into you. In other words, don't get so caught up by the world's horrors that you overestimate them and lose contact with the many wonderful things it also contains.

Finally, afaik the word "spinner" refers to a woman's stature/size and has a sexual connotation but is not at all specific to p4p. It can be and is used routinely and probably more often in np4p contexts. I checked this with the Urban Dictionary just to make sure that I was not a misunderstanding the word. "Spinner" is not the most respectful of terms for a woman to be sure, but I don't think it carries any implication at all that she is involved in p4p (or that she isn't).

-Ww
 
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