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what do you feel with your SB/SD?

Cute.
Try to do it for a day. I know some girls who were crying on their first day. Its not for everyone and it definitely takes dedication.
Plus there is working hard and working smart, if a girl does sex work full time and saves a lot of money which wouldn't be able with some "real job" and she invests it well, she can become top. Plus some girls support their top level university studies that are so expensive that a regular job wouldn't cover this way.

Its your choice who you date though, i have no comment on that, but i wish people would try the job one day before calling it easy.

The idea that sex work is easy and that any attractive woman can do it with no more effort than she would put into a conventional sex and social life is one of the most persistent and an absurd myths I've encountered in my life. It makes some sense that "civilians" (men or women with no experience in the commercial sex world) see it that way, but it is more surprising that so many mongers have similar beliefs. I suppose it is testimony to the acting ability of sex workers.

Anyway, I have known MANY women who have tried going into sex work with varying degrees of success and VERY MANY young men and women who have tried working their way through an education at a top university, and for sure the fraction of the former (a majority) who fail to make it is much higher than the fraction of the latter (a minority) who cannot hack it. It is quite clear which is more challenging Imo, and it isn't going to university.

-Ww
 
@Not Even Dave - It sounds like you struck gold the first place you dug (struck oil the first place you drilled). You are not describing a typical SB or sugar arrangement but one of the rare great ones! Congratulations!

-Ww
 
Anyway, I have known MANY women who have tried going into sex work with varying degrees of success and VERY MANY young men and women who have tried working their way through an education at a top university, and for sure the fraction of the former (a majority) who fail to make it is much higher than the fraction of the latter (a minority) who cannot hack it. It is quite clear which is more challenging Imo, and it isn't going to university.

Come now, the majority of people not being cut out for sex work is not a reflection of the difficulty. It’s because of the social stigma, danger, and because sex is an intimate bonding experience that they can’t treat as work.

Sure anyone can get a degree in English lit at a top university, but a serious STEM major, never mind medicine or law? That is HARD. I had classes where > 80% of the students failed and not for lack of studying their asses off for ridiculous hours.

I’m sure sex work has its own difficulties but sex is a basic human function that pretty much everyone is capable of. Yes, a good escort needs to have a good attitude and be a charming companion but that’s something anyone would benefit from and not expect to get paid for.
 
Come now, the majority of people not being cut out for sex work is not a reflection of the difficulty. It’s because of the social stigma, danger, and because sex is an intimate bonding experience that they can’t treat as work.

Sure anyone can get a degree in English lit at a top university, but a serious STEM major, never mind medicine or law? That is HARD. I had classes where > 80% of the students failed and not for lack of studying their asses off for ridiculous hours.

I’m sure sex work has its own difficulties but sex is a basic human function that pretty much everyone is capable of. Yes, a good escort needs to have a good attitude and be a charming companion but that’s something anyone would benefit from and not expect to get paid for.

We will probably have to disagree here, but in addition, I don't understand or agree with your basic logic as far as I can see. Most people can succeed at something that suits their talents and abilities (that they are "cut out" for) and will fail at making something their life's work if they aren't cut out for it, so it seems to me that the fraction of people who can do something is *the* obvious measure of how difficult it is.

Is it difficult to become a world famous professional athlete or opera star or win a Nobel Prize? All of those are very difficult you have to start out with the right and rare native abilities AND work hard AND have some luck along the way.

Fwiiw, I have undergrad and graduate degrees in a notoriously challenging STEM field and have had a rather successful career based on those degrees. I worked quite hard when I was a student and in my first couple of decades out of school (not so much now), but I *never* worked as hard as some of the escorts I know, including some who are active on TAG. What I have done in my professional life would be impossible for most people because they simply do not have some of the aptitudes I have (e.g., in mathematics), but since I do, it hasn't required me to work all that hard...just lucky that my interests match my abilities to a fair degree.

Perhaps more to the point, most of the challenges of sex work which you mentioned in your post require the person to have the right basic personality traits and psychological make-up. Changing or acquiring those is MUCH harder than learning new academic skills and acquiring abstract knowledge; they ask the sex worker to change who she is, not just what she knows.

-Ww
 
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("Do employers pay for job interviews?")

Just as an aside on that, most of our clients pay a few thousand yen at least to cover transportation and parking costs, and if a client is attending an interview from out of town or overseas, will pay to get them to Tokyo and their hotel and meal costs while here.
 
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Most people can succeed at something that suits their talents and abilities (that they are "cut out" for) and will fail at making something their life's work if they aren't cut out for it, so it seems to me that the fraction of people who can do something is *the* obvious measure of how difficult it is.

...

Perhaps more to the point, most of the challenges of sex work which you mentioned in your post require the person to have the right basic personality traits and psychological make-up. Changing or acquiring those is MUCH harder than learning new academic skills and acquiring abstract knowledge; they ask the sex worker to change who she is, not just what she knows

Yeah, we definitely differ here, I think most people are capable of most jobs even in demanding professions like law, medicine, and science with sufficient dedication and commitment. I think few jobs require inherent talents as for example extreme athletic performance or theoretical physics do.

I’d measure difficulty in terms of how much effort it is necessary to put in, not how many people have inherent talents for it.

It would surprise me to learn that many sex workers change their basic personality to adapt to the work. Assuming that’s even possible! More likely is they have some inherent suitability that attracts them to it.
 
We will probably have to disagree here, but in addition, I don't understand or agree with your basic logic as far as I can see. Most people can succeed at something that suits their talents and abilities (that they are "cut out" for) and will fail at making something their life's work if they aren't cut out for it, so it seems to me that the fraction of people who can do something is *the* obvious measure of how difficult it is.

Is it difficult to become a world famous professional athlete or opera star or win a Nobel Prize? All of those are very difficult you have to start out with the right and rare native abilities AND work hard AND have some luck along the way.

Fwiiw, I have undergrad and graduate degrees in a notoriously challenging STEM field and have had a rather successful career based on those degrees. I worked quite hard when I was a student and in my first couple of decades out of school (not so much now), but I *never* worked as hard as some of the escorts I know, including some who are active on TAG. What I have done in my professional life would be impossible for most people because they simply do not have some of the aptitudes I have (e.g., in mathematics), but since I do, it hasn't required me to work all that hard...just lucky that my interests match my abilities to a fair degree.

Perhaps more to the point, most of the challenges of sex work which you mentioned in your post require the person to have the right basic personality traits and psychological make-up. Changing or acquiring those is MUCH harder than learning new academic skills and acquiring abstract knowledge; they ask the sex worker to change who she is, not just what she knows.

-Ww

Ah Ww , the valiant savior of escorting honor , is back in good shape! I was starting to worry! Welcome back ! (Oh well I forgot , you cant read me, never mind: welcome back anyway! :))
 
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We will probably have to disagree here, but in addition, I don't understand or agree with your basic logic as far as I can see. Most people can succeed at something that suits their talents and abilities (that they are "cut out" for) and will fail at making something their life's work if they aren't cut out for it, so it seems to me that the fraction of people who can do something is *the* obvious measure of how difficult it is.

Is it difficult to become a world famous professional athlete or opera star or win a Nobel Prize? All of those are very difficult you have to start out with the right and rare native abilities AND work hard AND have some luck along the way.

Fwiiw, I have undergrad and graduate degrees in a notoriously challenging STEM field and have had a rather successful career based on those degrees. I worked quite hard when I was a student and in my first couple of decades out of school (not so much now), but I *never* worked as hard as some of the escorts I know, including some who are active on TAG. What I have done in my professional life would be impossible for most people because they simply do not have some of the aptitudes I have (e.g., in mathematics), but since I do, it hasn't required me to work all that hard...just lucky that my interests match my abilities to a fair degree.

Perhaps more to the point, most of the challenges of sex work which you mentioned in your post require the person to have the right basic personality traits and psychological make-up. Changing or acquiring those is MUCH harder than learning new academic skills and acquiring abstract knowledge; they ask the sex worker to change who she is, not just what she knows.

-Ww


It's funny cause I remember not so long ago some saying that they enjoy the lifestyle cause it allows them lots of free time and hobbies and meeting friends etc... and that most of the clients they meet are real gentlemen who are not only generous and very considerate but also not too pushy in bed (many dont even want or are capable of FS etc), provide travels and interesting conversations etc

But I must have misunderstood :D
 
A late reply, but I’ve been without internet— and soon will be again. And this thread captures my interest because I over-analyze everything since being “on the spectrum” means, for me, never being sure I’m behaving properly.

I started up with an SB shortly before my travels began this spring, at the end of my crazy April P4P-a-looza, and have had the chance to do a couple of overnights and a day date with her, and at first it did feel awkward knowing she was seeing other guys even though intellectually I couldn’t justify the feeling. One thing that helped was, when we first discussed it, we agreed to be brutally frank regarding the “contract.” Better, we agreed, to manage expectations — both financial and emotional— up front than have complications and hurt feelings down the road. So we talked about the sugar, about the polygamy, about gifts and how they did not in any way stand in for the sugar, and emotions and how they did not affect the sugar, either. I mean, you can’t get more open than that. “We’re going to like each other but this is a business transaction above all.” Go ahead and try to misunderstand that, if you think you can, eh? And there were expectations stated on my side, too, about dates and their frequency and the components thereof, so don’t think it was some bitchy, one-sided thing. On the contrary, we both agreed to all the terms and I feel like that has cleared the way for there to be no need to have any more uncomfortable conversations about “The Deal.”

That said, the first date, an overnight, went so well for me that there was that moment I thought I might get too attached, because as this was my first SB (pretty much... I have sort of an unspoken one in Guam that’s almost too complicated to go into), I was finding myself really into this new opportunity to be more involved than just setting up a cold “appointment” with a lady. I ran around beforehand planning all the details, checking out the hotel, the restaurant, the karaoke room, making sure it would all be perfect, which I stopped doing with my wife because she never finds anything “perfect” or even OK. We went out, we sang, ate, drank, watched a movie in the room... And then awhile later, something just clicked and I was able to compartmentalize it and the idea of losing perspective and getting attached stopped being a problem. It feels now like an open relationship, which was something I’d always been curious about. I love seeing her when I can, we email when we’re apart and I get her goofy stuff when I’m traveling which she accepts gracefully instead of telling me the present sucks and to stop, even when I put her on a train home with two arm loads of crap that reminded me of her. We’ve gone to the beach, to temples, to cute little obscure restaurants, and we’ve watched movies that one or the other of us particularly wanted the other to see. There’s always sex — that was part of the contract — but I’m not counting pops and she’s not watching the clock. And I’m not thinking about her other encounters while I’m with her, unless we’re discussing “the profession” as a topic. Far from being jealous, I sometimes find it fascinating talking about her other encounters (with zero private details about the guys, as she maintains professionalism in that respect) and not in a sexual way... I mean, it’s not a turn-on to me like ‘oh baby, tell me how he did it to you;’ it’s just one of the few conversations that I can have with her and only her, an insider’s discussion of sex work, from a sociological and philosophical standpoint as well as getting insights from her perspective.

If she doesn’t also at least like me as a person, she does a good job pretending — and she’s never been one to really go over the top with the pretending even when we had non-SB P4P encounters before the arrangement. She’s always been pretty WYSIWYG, so there are not these moments where I question her sincerity since she’s never laying it on thick.

So, of course, these things are different for everyone and I did have a moment where I thought I might get attached and where I therefore felt uncomfortable — but that was my caveman instinct trying to rise to the fore. I just had to give it a moment’s thought and say to my brain, “Yo, she’s an escort, Sting; she’s gonna put on the red light so get good with it or get gone.” And as I said, now it makes the relationship kind of more interesting, though TBH that topic has kind of played out and we’re as likely to talk about opening a cafe where the waiters serve cinnamon rolls in bear costumes, or what are the attributes of a really great refrigerator magnet. (And they are legion, these attributes.)

Welcome back !
I think it's very hard to explain what a (good) SB relationship is to anyone who has not been in it and will have automatic judgments/biases against it.
Told about mine to an ex-girlfriend I still like and respect very much , and maybe I shouldnt have. Her answer was just "dont sugar-coat it, it's just prostitution too".
Well for me it isnt . It isnt a "normal" relationship either. As Ww suggested I dont even try to label it anymore .
 
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I'm in my second SD relationship. The first one I had didn't last long and was a failure from the start. Zero connection with the lady. Now, about 8 weeks into the second one, I consider myself a very lucky man indeed. Shit, I can't believe something can be so perfect.

To the OP's point: I'm married and love my wife. Best thing that happened to me in my entire life. But, sadly, on the erotic level I have needs that my wife can't relate to (I'm submissive and need a woman with a mean streak and a firm hand; my wife's too sweet for that shit).

I attach easily, so I have a crush on my current girlfriend (I don't think of her as a "sugar baby"). It's not as bad as a teenage crush but it's a crush alright. Doesn't bother me at all. Why? For one thing I know crushes pass. The longest a crush lasts in my case is 2 years. I also know that I can end the crush by going cold turkey. That's painful but the pain lasts no more than 3-4 months. But what really makes this easy for me is, for one thing, that she seems genuinely fond of me. The emotional symmetry between us makes it easy to be relaxed about it. I never have to wonder about her. Besides that, we are on the same page about pretty much everything else, too, including the nature of our relationship. We communicate a lot, though. Our email correspondence could fill a book. We meet for coffee or lunch, too, and just talk. No love hotel afterwards on those occasions. LH time is separate. I think it's because of all the communicating that it's been smooth sailing for us. We take all the happiness and pleasure we can get out of it but we also know that it will end one day, latest in a couple of years from now. In the meantime, I've decided to enjoy the crush I have on her to the fullest extent, feel alive and elated, and pass as much of my positive mood on to my wife as well. So far, it's been working.
 
I'm in my second SD relationship. The first one I had didn't last long and was a failure from the start. Zero connection with the lady. Now, about 8 weeks into the second one, I consider myself a very lucky man indeed. Shit, I can't believe something can be so perfect.

To the OP's point: I'm married and love my wife. Best thing that happened to me in my entire life. But, sadly, on the erotic level I have needs that my wife can't relate to (I'm submissive and need a woman with a mean streak and a firm hand; my wife's too sweet for that shit).

I attach easily, so I have a crush on my current girlfriend (I don't think of her as a "sugar baby"). It's not as bad as a teenage crush but it's a crush alright. Doesn't bother me at all. Why? For one thing I know crushes pass. The longest a crush lasts in my case is 2 years. I also know that I can end the crush by going cold turkey. That's painful but the pain lasts no more than 3-4 months. But what really makes this easy for me is, for one thing, that she seems genuinely fond of me. The emotional symmetry between us makes it easy to be relaxed about it. I never have to wonder about her. Besides that, we are on the same page about pretty much everything else, too, including the nature of our relationship. We communicate a lot, though. Our email correspondence could fill a book. We meet for coffee or lunch, too, and just talk. No love hotel afterwards on those occasions. LH time is separate. I think it's because of all the communicating that it's been smooth sailing for us. We take all the happiness and pleasure we can get out of it but we also know that it will end one day, latest in a couple of years from now. In the meantime, I've decided to enjoy the crush I have on her to the fullest extent, feel alive and elated, and pass as much of my positive mood on to my wife as well. So far, it's been working.

Beautiful story and I completely relate to it ... wait... is she also MY SB?!!! :Do_O

 
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No, you piss me off sometimes

Sorry about that! I didn't know it's only sometimes, I will try to clean my act and piss you off all the time! That's a promise!
 
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Sorry about that! I didn't know it's only sometimes, I will try to clean my act and piss you off all the time! That's a promise!
Watch me in action, young padawan!
It takes time energy and dedication to piss off people all the time! :)
 
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But what really makes this easy for me is, for one thing, that she seems genuinely fond of me. The emotional symmetry between us makes it easy to be relaxed about it. I never have to wonder about her. Besides that, we are on the same page about pretty much everything else, too, including the nature of our relationship. We communicate a lot, though. Our email correspondence could fill a book. We meet for coffee or lunch, too, and just talk. No love hotel afterwards on those occasions. LH time is separate. I think it's because of all the communicating that it's been smooth sailing for us. We take all the happiness and pleasure we can get out of it but we also know that it will end one day, latest in a couple of years from now. In the meantime, I've decided to enjoy the crush I have on her to the fullest extent, feel alive and elated, and pass as much of my positive mood on to my wife as well. So far, it's been working.

That’s awesome, congratulations! I think you’ve managed to distill what can make a sugar relationship amazing and unique. When it’s good it’s really a relationship and not simply one person providing a paid service to another.
 
Beautiful story and I completely relate to it ... wait... is she also MY SB?!!! :Do_O

Frenchy, stranger things have happened although that would certainly, uh, surprise me. Mine's very young and has short hair. Yours?
 
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Beautiful story and I completely relate to it ... wait... is she also MY SB?!!! :Do_O

Frenchy, mine's very young and has short hair. Yours?

Oh the irony.

Do either you have committed SD/SB situations or does your SB do more than one at a time? (no pun intended)

My girl is technically a SB, but not to me. She's Japanese and has medium-length black hair, about to the top of her breasts, so at least she's not seeing @Leo Severin :D (oh and early 20's)
 
Oh the irony.

Do either you have committed SD/SB situations or does your SB do more than one at a time? (no pun intended)

My girl is technically a SB, but not to me. She's Japanese and has medium-length black hair, about to the top of her breasts, so at least she's not seeing @Leo Severin :D

I don't have a strict exclusivity agreement with her but considering the risk with STDs, we are supposed to inform one another of any additional partners or even one-time "slip-ups". So far I have not received notification of such. She's also said that she's well served with me and doesn't anticipate any additional adventures. That wasn't a commitment though.
 
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Frenchy, stranger things have happened although that would certainly, uh, surprise me. Mine's very young and has short hair. Yours?

No, long hair , pheeeeew...
also she's english, we all know that english ladies are very serious and totally devoted to their one and only man :D
 
Oh the irony.

Do either you have committed SD/SB situations or does your SB do more than one at a time? (no pun intended)

My girl is technically a SB, but not to me. She's Japanese and has medium-length black hair, about to the top of her breasts, so at least she's not seeing @Leo Severin :D (oh and early 20's)

Actually no commitment on both sides and that's perfect for both of us :)
 
Do either you have committed SD/SB situations or does your SB do more than one at a time? (no pun intended

Great question! I’ve had some exclusive sugar babes just due to their situation, but never tried to negotiate. I don’t like sharing my toys or the increased STD risk but I suspect most would ask way too much given how difficult it is to match schedules frequently.
 
also she's english, we all know that english ladies are very serious and totally devoted to their one and only man
Not an English-Asian, but really a English lady, right?
I know one Japanese girl who sounds like she grew up her entire life in the UK.
 
also she's english, we all know that english ladies are very serious and totally devoted to their one and only man :D

That made me discover a totally new snorting sound. Now I have three people looking at me very concerned.
 
Actually no commitment on both sides and that's perfect for both of us :)

Great question! I’ve had some exclusive sugar babes just due to their situation, but never tried to negotiate. I don’t like sharing my toys or the increased STD risk but I suspect most would ask way too much given how difficult it is to match schedules frequently.

Ah, ok. Well, at least you have rules or agreements in place to protect against unwanted bugs. We do as well, she's more at risk than I am, but since it's a higher risk anyway, I'll still get tested at the same time she does to be sure we're both clean.