Thank you all for your responses, I'm gonna work on getting to em in a bit, but I definitely think you all made some wonderful points (with the exception of the one that didn't..)
That is one of the cooler parts I think that I don't really see as a bad thing per se. Personally, I think it would be wonderful if there were a female PUA out there teaching men/women. IMO, in a perfect world, it shouldn't be this men vs women mentality. I think our goals as people in general should be to work together to make a relationship work with each other. However, as it stands society dictates that men are the ones that are supposed to make the moves, so as guys looking for a suitable partner, we have to do this massively inefficient method of talking to girls we're interested in and hoping one sticks
So far,
this is the only one I've found
I completely agree with you here, though (and I know this is encroaching on redpill territory) I think most girls would be perfectly fine if it was someone like Tom Cruise, Johnny Depp, Orlando Bloom, Hugh Jackman, etc propositioning them. So as PUA's, it's about, what can we learn from men like this in order to get their success levels (which is where I think your average PUA differs from redpill guys). Do I need to hit the gym, diet, be more successful in my career, or is it some other x-factor we need? The communities I've been apart of have always advocated learning what we can from successful men to replicate it in ourselves.
However, I do have one question for you:
To people like the majority of foreigners who come to Japan, we have no social circle, work place relationships are discouraged (and often are specifically written in the contract as forbidden), etc. What other avenues are there to meet a partner? Second question: Even among PUA's in Japan, we kind of laugh at those guys that stand in front of the station, talking to every cute girl that comes out, yet if they weren't succeeding, do you think they'd keep doing it? Not to really assign blame per se, but the reason we have street pick ups, cat-calling, etc is because it yield's results (I'm engaged to a girl I met through street game).
I agree with you in that harassment shouldn't be the method employed, but at the same time persistence has and does continue to yield results to men. Where's the line that you draw?
I kind of find irony that in the same post you mention touts, massage girls, etc as annoying, but you condemn the entire PUA industry because of scammers. I agree, there are scammers and I think they're slimeballs. However, you have scammers in virtually any industry ranging from those car mechanics that screw people over who have no knowledge of cars, all the way to that bastard used car salesman who lies out his ass. For what it's worth,
@Sinapse and
@Dorian Gray are the real deal, having been a regular on their bootcamp(s). One way you know it is the post-bootcamp support, namely that you can attend any of their seminars for free in the future, and if you're out and about, they're usually willing to come out and game with you. From what I've seen, it's only them and RSD that offer that service (Shameless plug for those two =p)
And yea, those two guys from that video had terribad game (met them and did street with them for awhile). The Norwegian guy was kinda cool, just not calibrated for Japan. The American guy was a dick the whole night, though I suspect that's because he spent most of his time in Japan getting rejected.
Well, how would you like them to try and start a conversation with you? I agree that the whole "Excuse me, do you know where Starbucks is?" gets annoying. I'm sure you're an expert at every location of Starbucks in Tokyo by now.
I do agree (like I said above), that harassment shouldn't be a thing to good game, and if a girl is power walking with headphones in her ears obviously going somewhere, I'll typically ignore her (unless she's a 10 in my book
). It'll usually be a fast "Hey, I can appreciate that you're in a hurry to go somewhere, let's exchange line and get to know each other when you're a little more free" type approach to the situation. I'm not in favor of screwing up a girls day, but at the same time, I know I'm a God walking amongst mere mortals, and I think a lot of girls would make time if their dream guy walked into their life.
No argument, but at the same time, it's a growing science that gives us a common language to speak and exchange ideas, which I think NLP lingo does provide. I doubt most serious PUA's buy into the "If I master this NLP stuff, I can mind control any girl!" (of course, there are guys who prove me wrong *facepalm*)
Yes, I agree with you that many guys want to get sex. And like you said, many PUA's don't (I fell into the latter). Would you be willing to concede that PUA is a tool that gets used for a variety of uses, and it's the users of said tool that are bad, not the art itself?
I agree with you that seedy, deceptive "tools" shouldn't be used. I'm one of those guys that advocates for full honesty with girls, and if a girl starts thinking a relationship is going to happen (regardless of what I've said) and I'm not interested, I'll cut her off quickly rather than seeing how long I can milk it for. I do know guys who don't do that, and I have a low opinion of them. However, that's more on the guy rather than the tool. I think on this point we agree quite a bit, just arriving at different results.
This too is 100% true. Humans are animals. We like to front like we're some amazingly advanced evolution of pure awesomeness, but at the end of the day, yes, we are animals. We learn behavior all our lives through positive and negative reinforcement. With my girl, I noticed that whenever I get her a dessert of some kind, I get amazing sex that night. She's just trained me in the same way we train a dog; encouraging favorable behavior with a positive reward, then discouraging unfavorable behavior with a consequence. Schools are exactly the same way. Study harder, get higher test scores and you get into higher level classes, get more praise from teachers, get more options available to you in life, etc.
Techniques IMO are often misunderstood. They are not the end goal for any PUA. When you think back to when guys are young and courting a woman, often times they give waaaaaaaaaay too many compliments. "Oh my god, you're so beautiful! Wow, you're so funny! etc etc etc" It comes off to (a lot) of girls as being waaaaay to smothery, clingy, etc. So for that guy, I would recommend he try negging, yes because he needs to learn how to see the bad parts of a girl and call her out on it. Eventually, he'll get to a nice, happy medium of treating a girl like he treats everyone else in his life: as a human being. Most of these "techniques" are more like exercises to help men find their natural style, not to be something used long term. Unfortunately, the above mentioned scammers and snake oil salesmen don't teach that aspect of it.
I agree here too, but like the above, it's a learning process. I can understand the objection that women are used en masse as a tool for learning good game, and I can agree with you that when a gamer gets to that point, he needs to stop and re-evaluate why he's in game. The guys who are serious about game usually do a pretty good job of not viewing women as a stepping stone. I've slept with a lot of women, and they all meant something to me.
