Who Pays For Social Time with Women?

[MossBoss]

Thanks Yuriko for adding an intelligent female’s point of view.

 

[e-smile]

You are missing a fundamental difference between talking and fucking. Most men, not all but most, can enjoy sex even if they know that the woman is doing it for money and not really enjoying it. Conversation, on the other hand is different. Most men, not all but most, don’t enjoy having a woman forcing and faking and acting like they are enjoying talking to you. This is all arguable. But it is mostly true. This is why pay for sex is world wide popular activity, but hostess clubs and pay for talk is, comparativly, pretty minor.

maybe that doesn't apply to Japanese men, cause hostess clubs are still populare here.

 

[e-smile]

But, from escort pov, if you want our "1 hour" social time, at the same time, we're not being able to give out that slot, to miss the opportunity of more expensive p4p session. We give out our time, please respect our time, that we're giong it out for you.

That is different from "girls in general", they're used to not paid, and feel rather offended for "being paid" for non escorts. I think people who can get a date without paying, go for hook ups, internet hook ups.street walker hook ups.

The more you get from a regular girl, you're the winner!

Yeah it's way easier to have social time with a non working girl than sex time with her, so although you have every right to ask for a fee for your social time I understand why people are saying it doesn't make sense from the client point of view.
That said the market doesn't need sense, the offer and the demand justify each other.

 

[akasam]

Most men, not all but most, don’t enjoy having a woman forcing and faking and acting like they are enjoying talking to you. This is all arguable. But it is mostly true.

Is it your considered opinion after 20, 30+ years of life that most men don't like it when women flatter them, laugh at their jokes, make or tolerate flirtation and sexual innuendos ...?

No, what you are saying applies 100% to sex work also. Only sociopaths want a girl who is clearly disgusted by them. We all pay to have girls pretend that our time with them is more than what it is. If the charade is terrible the experience is also terrible.

This is why pay for sex is world wide popular activity, but hostess clubs and pay for talk is, comparativly, pretty minor.

I think you're fooling yourself. Every waitress and bartender (even the guys) around the world (especially but not exclusively in tipping countries) knows that an attractive, chatty server will make more money than a dull, businesslike server. Make no mistake, you are paying for them to put up with your bullshit.

The number of women who get paid to talk to men is far greater than those who are paid to suck their dicks. For god's sakes there are Hooters restaurants in Tokyo, Amsterdam and Bangkok, all places where you can easily get prostitutes for whatever.

It is not rocket science to figure out why: guys like have their egos stroked almost as much as their cocks.

 

[akasam]

But, from escort pov, if you want our "1 hour" social time, at the same time, we're not being able to give out that slot, to miss the opportunity of more expensive p4p session. We give out our time, please respect our time, that we're giong it out for you.

That is different from "girls in general", they're used to not paid, and feel rather offended for "being paid" for non escorts. I think people who can get a date without paying, go for hook ups, internet hook ups.street walker hook ups.

Yuriko, I think you're making a mistake by putting escorts in a different category.

Every girl has other things she could be doing, other friends, other work. No guy should feel the right to demand social time of anyone.

Likewise, it is perfectly natural for a guy to want to spend unpaid social time with you, just as they would a non-escort. They shouldn't expect it, they damn well shouldn't demand it, but they can ask. (In exactly the same awkward, weird way they can ask their lawyer, tailor, or plumber for "social time".)

 

[akasam]

So tell me one significant reason why guys pay for sex that isn't just as valid for conversation? Haven't heard one yet.

 

[Yuriko]

Yeah it's way easier to have social time with a non working girl than sex time with her, so although you have every right to ask for a fee for your social time I understand why people are saying it doesn't make sense from the client point of view.
That said the market doesn't need sense, the offer and the demand justify each other.

Alot of clients ask me for social time after met for my session, sadly, those clients they don't find the difference with working girl VS non working girl. They just want to offer dinner but not aware of they will take time from us, thus I can't make more money than I want! I'm grateful for the offer, but clients should be aware of, there are lots of clients willing to meet a providers for regular sessions!!

 

[Yuriko]

Thanks Yuriko for adding an intelligent female’s point of view.

Thanks! Sorry for serious comment...!!!

 

[e-smile]

Alot of clients ask me for social time after met for my session, sadly, those clients they don't find the difference with working girl VS non working girl. They just want to offer dinner but not aware of they will take time from us, thus I can't make more money than I want! I'm grateful for the offer, but clients should be aware of, there are lots of clients willing to meet a providers for regular sessions!!

I feel sorry for them

 

[okayspot]

Can answer this easily

I'm Attractive enough to get scouted in Shibuya to do model shoots(never make the audition)
HoweverI'm incredibly socially awkward and anxious around people I don't know, all my attempts at contacts through tinder have never gotten past a first awkward date.
It might be having done a few years of English teaching here when I was in university, but when people I don't want to talk to randomly start talking to me,I feel like my space is invaded me. So I have the same respect for everyone, this does lead to zero social contacts.

Paying for the social time and fake friends feels less pathetic (by going to hostess you are also buying a fake friend, random line chit chat messages every day) than just wondering the city on my own as in lost in translation.

If you have someone I can pay that will teach me non "pick-up people on the street" ways to

"find an attractive girl willing to have social time with you for free? " I would be interested....

 

[e-smile]

"find an attractive girl willing to have social time with you for free? " I would be interested....

it takes social "skills" that you don't seem open to acquire
I quoted the word because it's not actually skills, it's interest in people with no discrimination by look.

 

[warubuta]

Is it your considered opinion after 20, 30+ years of life that most men don't like it when women flatter them, laugh at their jokes, make or tolerate flirtation and sexual innuendos ...?

No, what you are saying applies 100% to sex work also. Only sociopaths want a girl who is clearly disgusted by them. We all pay to have girls pretend that our time with them is more than what it is. If the charade is terrible the experience is also terrible.


I think you're fooling yourself. Every waitress and bartender (even the guys) around the world (especially but not exclusively in tipping countries) knows that an attractive, chatty server will make more money than a dull, businesslike server. Make no mistake, you are paying for them to put up with your bullshit.

The number of women who get paid to talk to men is far greater than those who are paid to suck their dicks. For god's sakes there are Hooters restaurants in Tokyo, Amsterdam and Bangkok, all places where you can easily get prostitutes for whatever.

It is not rocket science to figure out why: guys like have their egos stroked almost as much as their cocks.

Please stop the hamfisted reductionist and exaggeration argument techniques. Please. This is supposed to be at least a semi-civil place.

All people like to be flattered and most will put up with some degree of disingenuous flattery from fakers who have a potential financial gain. But in my observation, the Japan hostess club scenario, where the ladies do nothing but flatter and never say anything rude or challenging is, for the most part, a Japan only scenario. Most enlightened gaijin men don’t really go for it- especially at the exorbitant prices. And for the record, when I go to a bar, I pay for drinks, that’s it. If a genuine, mutually interesting conversation ensues with the bartender, then that is fine. But if I feel that I am getting played for tips or additional drinks, I leave. I might also call the bartender a phoney asshole and tell him to fuck off. You obviously don’t understand the difference between a genuine conversation and a fake one. Maybe you play a lot of video games and watch a lot of porn too?

Finally, back to my first point, you need to stop putting words in people’s mouths. Did I say I like to fuck women who are clearly disgusted by me? No. I said I am realistic with myself and admit to myself that many of the SPs I fuck are not really enjoying it and are only doing it for the money. Is the reality different for you? I think it is.

 

[warubuta]

maybe that doesn't apply to Japanese men, cause hostess clubs are still populare here.

I think you are right. Non-sexual paid-for companions and hostess scenes certainly exist in many different forms around the world, but the Japan hostess scene is huge. So why is it so popular here and less popular in other places? I think there are several factors including the way business relationships are created and deals are done outside of the office, the absence of a 1960s women’s liberation movement, the concept of motenashi, would be a few.

 

[Frenchy]

I think you are right. Non-sexual paid-for companions and hostess scenes certainly exist in many different forms around the world, but the Japan hostess scene is huge. So why is it so popular here and less popular in other places? I think there are several factors including the way business relationships are created and deals are done outside of the office, the absence of a 1960s women’s liberation movement, the concept of motenashi, would be a few.

Also on average Japanese married life sucks more than in many other developed countries. Men here need p4p for both sex and « affection » (however fake it is) because (in general) that’s what they don’t get and give in their marriage.

 

[MossBoss]

Please stop the hamfisted reductionist and exaggeration argument techniques. Please. This is supposed to be at least a semi-civil place.

All people like to be flattered and most will put up with some degree of disingenuous flattery from fakers who have a potential financial gain. But in my observation, the Japan hostess club scenario, where the ladies do nothing but flatter and never say anything rude or challenging is, for the most part, a Japan only scenario. Most enlightened gaijin men don’t really go for it- especially at the exorbitant prices. And for the record, when I go to a bar, I pay for drinks, that’s it. If a genuine, mutually interesting conversation ensues with the bartender, then that is fine. But if I feel that I am getting played for tips or additional drinks, I leave. I might also call the bartender a phoney asshole and tell him to fuck off. You obviously don’t understand the difference between a genuine conversation and a fake one. Maybe you play a lot of video games and watch a lot of porn too?

Finally, back to my first point, you need to stop putting words in people’s mouths. Did I say I like to fuck women who are clearly disgusted by me? No. I said I am realistic with myself and admit to myself that many of the SPs I fuck are not really enjoying it and are only doing it for the money. Is the reality different for you? I think it is.

Well argued point again. I don’t always agree with @warubuta but at least he can justify his arguments in an intelligent way. This is a skill lacking from one or two posters on TAG.

 

[Frenchy]

Well argued point again. I don’t always agree with @warubuta but at least he can justify his arguments in an intelligent way. This is a skill lacking from one or two posters on TAG.

Don’t be grumpy Moss... I just use verified facts and logic in my arguments , I know it touches some peoples nerves sometimes, sorry

 

[Sudsy]

Well argued point again. I don’t always agree with @warubuta but at least he can justify his arguments in an intelligent way. This is a skill lacking from one or two posters on TAG.

I would argue that the second sentence was unnecessary, condescending, and antagonistic. Somebody slip natto into your breakfast, Mossy?

 

[TAG Manager]

This is a skill lacking from one or two posters on TAG.

Enough with the snippy-sniping posts/comments. Please step away from TAG if you need to take a breather.
Don't bring your angst here, please.

 

[warubuta]

I get a bit pissed off sometimes and I apologize for that. I like a lively exchange. A clever insult every now and then is fine by me too. We are all big boys (and girls) here. I don’t like the sense I get sometimes that people are trying to win an arguement just for the sake of winning. It should be about enlightening not inflaming.

 

[Wwanderer]

The reason you pay is to get a more attractive girl, a more interesting girl, a girl who would let you come and go as you please, a girl who is not going to make demands of you, a girl who pretends you are more interesting and better at intercourse.

These are all exactly the same reasons for paid sex work and billions of guys do this in one form or another (some times it's just tipping a hot bartender).

There are a number of points that I would have made in this thread if @akasam and @e-smile hadn't already nailed them. I pick out the one quoted above simply because it is the most direct, clear and accurate (Imo) answer to the question in the first sentence of the OP (not the thread title). Tbh, I think that that question is not a sincere one since repeated answers are simply ignored or discredited by some because the reasons given are not ones which those posters find adequate/persuasive *personally*. Nevertheless, they ARE the reasons that many men pay for social time with women (in a wide variety of ways, as @akasam points out). They are the answer to that question.

So, let me add just one point - There is a close parallel here to the argument I made in this post:

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/10-000yen-budget.20115/page-3#post-191170

@MossBoss, you and some others seem to base your perspective on the idea that a conversation with any attractive and interested woman is the equivalent of a conversation with any other one, regardless of its quality or particular features...much like some men seem not to distinguish between sex with one attractive woman and another as long as they get their pop(s). See post at above link. But whether it makes sense to you or not, many other guys care A LOT about the quality, style, atmosphere, sophistication, content etc of conversations.

The notion that a conversation with one of the many Japanese women in Tokyo who would be thrilled to have a free English lesson would be a satisfying experience for someone who is actually interested in talking in a serious way to another person is an example of such an attitude. Personally I'd pay to avoid spending my time that way if necessary.

On a final personal note, good and deeply engaging conversation that produces a feeling of connection is much harder to find than high quality sex to my tastes, whether the social time is purchased or free. I've never had an SB for any length of time with whom I didn't have great conversations. Perhaps I'm odd, surely I am I suppose, but it seems to me that some of you must not be much interested in what other people think and have to say.

-Ww

 

[akasam]

much like some men seem not to distinguish between sex with one attractive woman and another as long as they get their pop(s).

That would explain a lot, but it doesn't explain how these guys can so easily detect and be offended by insincere flattery in a bar, but either can't tell or don't care when it's in the bedroom.

Some women are good at their jobs and some are not. You get the full spectrum of quality whether it is social or sex play.

 

[e-smile]

I think you are right. Non-sexual paid-for companions and hostess scenes certainly exist in many different forms around the world, but the Japan hostess scene is huge. So why is it so popular here and less popular in other places? I think there are several factors including the way business relationships are created and deals are done outside of the office, the absence of a 1960s women’s liberation movement, the concept of motenashi, would be a few.

maybe it's simply because they have more communication difficulties and guys here are less used to casual talks with strangers.
maybe it's partially because they have a codified language for each situation and it can be a pain in the ass to have conversations because of that.
in Japanese you can be rude just from the word you chose to say "you" and there are many words for that, some of which are only rude in certain cases.

 

[Wwanderer]

That would explain a lot, but it doesn't explain how these guys can so easily detect and be offended by insincere flattery in a bar, but either can't tell or don't care when it's in the bedroom.

Possibly because they want/need to believe the bedroom flattery much more than the barroom flattery, the former being about their sexual appeal or skill while the latter is often about something less personal and more superficial.

-Ww

 

[akasam]

maybe it's simply because they {japanese} have more communication difficulties

Absolutely. Japanese communication is so formal (historical) and scripted that many need to break out in a completely different setting (lubricated by plenty of alcohol). Of course, every country has this, Japan just takes it to an extreme.

Obviously I am far from an expert on Japanese culture. However, the more I learn, the more the superficially freaky stuff makes sense given the constraints of their society. I've learned to embrace the weird, rather than find fault in it. Maid cafes? Why the hell not, but good luck explaining that to people back in America.

 

[Wwanderer]

To the extent we are talking about Japanese hostess bar and similar types of paid social time, it is important to see that the alcohol is a crucial component, as important as lubrication is to sex. Basically Japanese hostesses behave exactly the way drunk men want women to behave. The good ones are also skilled at keeping their customers at the level of inebriation in which they are having the most fun, not too sober nor too drunk for that happy party feeling. This is also of course when they spend the most willingly.

-Ww