Ok, feel a tad bruised from Alices post, and felt the need to write a lengthy defence…
First of, fair enough, I can see why the quoted statement could cause offence. But partially, behind the bravado / attempted humour, what I was saying is that I would like to be able to talk to a girl, but also walk away unbruised emotionally if its clear that the vibe is not there. It would be nice if I could make that call, rather than getting shot down. But also partially, yes I was just being a guy, so guilty as charged.
I absolutely have never done this and would never do so (persist, follow around). You do seem to have over-inferred about that. If anything my problem is more like not being persistent enough, out of politeness.
Indeed, its totally understandable that girls would at first have some barrier up, especially when they are getting hit on 20 times a day. I have no problem with that and expect it to some degree (and I’m genuinely surprised about how nice most of the girls in Tokyo have been so far). But I think its fair to say that guys have to walk a fine line here, you have to probe that barrier to an extent to see if she's just putting up that initial filter, or if she's actually just not interested. To an extent its the same in bars and clubs too (and for me this whole ‘pick up’ thing is just saying you don't have to follow the convention of only approaching in bars / clubs). What I'm aiming at in future is just to be a little bit playful, smiley, maybe tease her for being a little uptight etc, and see if she opens up. If she doesn’t, I will walk away.
You said it yourself, you may also shut down a nampa instinctively, even though you might then notice your kinda attracted to the guy. So I definitely think some degree of persistence (barrier 'probing') is reasonable. Its obviously a fine line though, and no doubt there are lots of nasty guys that don't respect that line, and also plenty of nice guys who misjudge it.
In my case, the whole thing probably lasted less than a minute. She definitely wasn't ‘SCARED’. It was a side street, but just off a big street, it wasn't crowded, but it wasn’t empty, there were open shops on the street, it was well lit, there were people ahead and behind us. The conversation ended on the main street at a crossing. She was talking to me, albeit frosty, but I could see there was potential and she did open up a bit as I described. When I gave a lame response and blew the opportunity, she made it clear 'ok times up', and I walked away. I am absolutely comfortable with what I did in that regard, I really don't think she felt harassed. I do kinda feel like you are judging me here based on very little info.
It definitely wasn't like ‘I'm going home, I'm scared, leave me alone’, it was more like ‘I'm going home, and looking at you, I seriously doubt you got anything to tempt me otherwise, but ok... what have you got?’. So I tried a little, and when she made it clear she didn't want to talk further I walked.
I stand by what I said, she was a bit 'bitchy'. Sure yes, partially because she has to deal with getting hit on all the time (and as I said, I sensed she might have just been having a bad day). In anycase, 100% agree, she doesn't owe me anything, including politeness. But likewise, I am entitled to approach her. As I have experienced, some girls are much nicer about it even when they are not interested. Naturally I am going to have a more positive view of those girls than her.
Some guys would also point out ‘Hey think about the guy, it takes balls and courage, give the guy a break etc’. I'm not even going to use that argument, because I genuinely believe the girl doesn't owe you anything. But the bottom line is she was by far more ‘bitchy’ then all other girls I approached. I accept that is her right, but I also think I’m entitled to consider her 'bitchy', because I don't feel I pushed too hard, was rude, persistent, whatever. She is also entitled to consider me a loser
And I also stand by the following: some (absolutely not all) very attractive women can form 'bitchy' personalities because they have had people (not just guys) falling over backwards for them their entire life, haven’t formed any sense of appreciation, gratitude or respect for others, and instead develop a sense of entitlement. Again I repeat ‘some’. I'd like to hear a guy disagree with that. (Of course, I've also met ‘some’ extremely good looking guys who treat girls terribly, for similar reasons).
In general though, I can understand your assumptions. Even to me ‘pickup’ generally triggers images like
this. For the record, I am definitely not coming at this from that whole US-style frat-boy arsehole / angry-nerd / misogynistic 'philosophy'. I don’t identify with it at all. Without wanting to sound sycophantic, this is why I got inspired by Sinapse’s videos as he was stressing win-win situations, approaching girls in a laid back style without expectation etc.
You are totally right here. This was lame, but I will comment on that another time.
