Am I Harassing A Girl By Approaching Her On The Street?

[meiji]

I've stayed out of this thread, because it's been dull and repetitive IMO, but I wanted to make a few points:

1. There's been plenty of women out there that have made it pretty clear that guys approaching them gets annoying. That's not to say it's all women, or all circumstances. But the fact that there are nanpa artists and model/AV scouts camped out near every train station might give people an inkling of how much hassle attractive women in Japan face on the street. If people took a moment to consider that gauntlet that they might run through on a regular basis one might see that even a well-meaning guy approaching them on the street could be considered annoying or threatening. I'm not saying that PUA is wrong or even a bad strategy. Just trying to be a little more even-handed here.

2. Cold-approaching women isn't the only way of meeting women. Social activity groups in Japan may not be quite as common, but it's not impossible.

Ok I think we're once again talking about different things a little bit. You are saying it won't be hard to the average, socially normal guy to get laid in Japan. I agree with this for the most part if you are going for low-hanging fruit.

The "huge majority" of foreign men in Japan date trolls with うすい faces that most self-respecting Japanese guys won't touch. A bit blunt, but I'm just being real here. I have many friends who met their girlfriends or wives through "normal"means like social circle, work, or introductions, and almost none of them are actually hot.
In short, you have some correlations:

Group A:
Black haired. Usui faces. Small / slit eyes. Educated. Speak English. Been to Guam / Bali / Studied abroad in Australia / US / Canada. OL or career focused.


If you want a girlfriend who looks like this, it will be easy.

Group B:
Brown haired. More makeup. More genetically "gifted" (read: attractive by Japanese standards, enough to make a living off of it). Probably doesn't speak English. Probably hasn't been outside of Japan.


If you want a girlfriend who looks like this, good luck. You are going to have to work at it. But, it will be worth it!

3. There's more to a long term relationship than whether your SO is 'actually hot'. I mean, even aside from important things like shared interests or other compatability outside of the bedroom, maybe a guy's number one criteria sexually is that a girl is great at taking it in the ass, and prefers a "5" that loves it to a "9" that brushes aside his finger. And yeah, there's some guys that end up marrying women that aren't the guys idea of a prize, due to language issues or whatever. That's kind of the way things are, and I try not to belittle other people for their choices.

4. As for those pictures you posted, I personally prefer natural-looking women, and definitely prefer one or two of the girls from the first group over the "Black Hole Sun" video-looking woman that you posted. Yes, that may be the standard for Japanese beauty (these days), but that doesn't mean women that don't look like that aren't beautiful.

 

[Sinapse]

I've stayed out of this thread, because it's been dull and repetitive IMO

If people took a moment to consider that gauntlet that they might run through on a regular basis one might see that even a well-meaning guy approaching them on the street could be considered annoying or threatening. I'm not saying that PUA is wrong or even a bad strategy. Just trying to be a little more even-handed here.

Think about all the ways you are "harassed" on the street:

-touts for izakayas
-homeless people
-those annoying Filipina women who run around scamming people for money to give to "orphans"
-loud speakers from right-wing rallies, electronics shops, trucks driving around advertising boy bands, manga cafes, and pickup service for old appliances.

In short, Japan is a high-harassment society.

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Cold-approaching women isn't the only way of meeting women. Social activity groups in Japan may not be quite as common, but it's not impossible.

Not sure where anyone said cold-approach was the only way to meet women.

Here's Solong talking about it in this thread:

In PUA, social circles are seen as another way to meet women.

And me in another thread:

Social Circle
----------------
Pros:
Super easy, girls are friendly from the beginning, you come pre-selected, etc
Cons:
Low volume (and unless you're a promoter, college student, have really cool friends, etc, not the best quality usually)
can't really hook up with tons of chicks and expect the social circle to keep providing

Personal opinion: Social circle is awesome if you have the right one, but its usually too small to support mass approaches and bangs. If you can create a social circle full of club promoters, DJs, fashion producers, TV/media execs, Talent agents, Photographers, etc, that would probably be the ideal game situation. You have to be helping them out too, though.

Soooo yeah. I too like social circle, and think it's a viable strategy for meeting women (I even called it the IDEAL game situation if you have the right one). The issue, as I've mentioned before already (wonder why I have to be repetitive...?) is if you either A.) aren't meeting high-value attractive women through your social circle, or B.) can't get laid with them because you don't have the skills to.

There's more to a long term relationship than whether your SO is 'actually hot'.

I totally agree. That's why we go on MANY dates, more, perhaps, than may be available through your social circle unless your 顔が広い、as they say in Japanese.

As for those pictures you posted, I personally prefer natural-looking women

Right, and the focus as I mentioned isn't ONLY on the brown hair etc. Here are some more examples of more "natural" looking women in group B.

 

[Solong]

Ok I think we're once again talking about different things a little bit. You are saying it won't be hard to the average, socially normal guy to get laid in Japan. I agree with this for the most part if you are going for low-hanging fruit.

The "huge majority" of foreign men in Japan date trolls with うすい faces that most self-respecting Japanese guys won't touch. A bit blunt, but I'm just being real here. I have many friends who met their girlfriends or wives through "normal"means like social circle, work, or introductions, and almost none of them are actually hot. Most girls who learn English, get educations, and serially date foreigners are lower on the scale of beauty (going by Japanese standards).

Generally (again, with the exclusion of some high-end hostesses and genetically blessed daughters of rich families) the hottest women in Japan drop out of high school or don't go to college because they can make a living off of their looks. The ones who are ugly or have typically "Asian" usui faces realize this and commit to studying hard to get into a university because they know they have to have a career because they can't count on just being scooped up by a young shacho or salaryman based on their looks alone. Thus, these second bracket of educated, career-oriented women have the double-whammy of being not the highest in demand to Japanese men, and knowing English. Thus, they gravitate towards foreigners. This is much the same as J girls who genetically have larger butts gravitate towards hip hop because they find acceptance there.

Westerners come to Japan, are blinded by the fact that the girl that's into them is actually skinny for once, and settle down with what they just think is an "Asian" face but actually is considered unattractive in Japan. And if they like that and are happy with it, then fine. I'm not here to tell anyone they shouldn't be happy. Getting this kind of girl should actually be pretty easy if you're reasonably social.

BUT

Some guys want the REAL hotness walking around, on their own power, just by the sheer force of their will and understanding.

----------------------------------------------

In short, you have some correlations:

Group A:
Black haired. Usui faces. Small / slit eyes. Educated. Speak English. Been to Guam / Bali / Studied abroad in Australia / US / Canada. OL or career focused.

If you want a girlfriend who looks like this, it will be easy.

Group B:
Brown haired. More makeup. More genetically "gifted" (read: attractive by Japanese standards, enough to make a living off of it). Probably doesn't speak English. Probably hasn't been outside of Japan.

If you want a girlfriend who looks like this, good luck. You are going to have to work at it. But, it will be worth it!

So let's not get it twisted here. I am not saying that the average foreign dude will have a cripplingly hard time getting laid. No, actually, the average foreign dude should be able to get a lot of Group A type girls. But show me a guy without game who can get Group B girls. Or @Wwanderer show me how to have 30 group B girls who look like the one in the picture in my social circle without being a Japanese shacho or working in night life/fashion/AV/etc, and I'll take YOUR bootcamp.

And yes there are anamolies. There are plenty of raven-haired OL goddesses, and plenty of busted brown-haired snaggle-tooth chain smoking ratchet girls. But I'm talking about generalities and trends. The hottest women will be found in Group B, the group that, not coincidentally, is most detached from average FOB whitedude Jim.

In order to get these girls you go where they are - kyaba / high level goukons if you have the $$, and street if you don't/don't want to spend it .. but even if you go to kyaba/high level goukons you still need game.


Soooo



Yes, again, if you want one or a small number of below average Group A girls.

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Actually we have already discussed this and I don't think we overlooked it. You brought this up and I brought up the fact that guys need to first admit they suck, then learn the behaviors, then get good at them until they are easily reproducible without thought, then finally, they can throw away everything and be "naturally" good. This is the end goal, for sure, but to deny the many, micro steps to get there is foolish.

Unconscious incompentence (You suck and you don't really realize it)
--------->
Conscious incompetence (You suck and you realize it)
--------->
Conscious competence (You can do it if you focus and "try hard")
--------->
Unconscious competence (You can do it without thinking and can discard all the crutches, styles, and techniques that got you there.

This is the general path. As I mentioned, a lot of guys do fall off the path. But we break it down as specifically and precisely as possible. And, one of the most important parts of learning pickup is to

Never be attached to the outcome

And have a

Progress-oriented mindset not a results-based mindset.

This means that we take small steps. If you are terrified of talking to a woman on the street we start with saying hi to a guy on the street. Then, good job! Next, we talk to an old lady on the street and ask her where Starbucks is. Good job! Then, ask for directions from a younger lady. Good job! And before you know it you're sitting in bed next to a sexy 19 year old.

Trust me, we're very aware that putting a lot of pressure and knowledge out there quickly makes it hard on the guy learning. That's why we break it down into the most rudimentary steps and reward them for every tiny step of progress they make. If guys can attach their sense of self-worth to the right action they take, and not the results they get, they will continue.

So no, we don't just throw guys out into the shark tank and tell them to sink or swim, SNL (same-night lay) or die. We are very aware of nervousness, fear of failure, and how to actually coach guys so they can succeed. Everybody learns differently, but the ones who are hardest to teach are guys who DEMAND to examine the results every step of the way (there was another thread where a guy was wracking his brain because he did 70 approaches and didn't get any sex) and REFUSE to trust in the process and the little steps that we teach every step of the way. The guys who end up doing well at it are guys who can cultivate a sort of masochism in the path of right action and rejection, and accept that every interaction is a learning experience.

There are some holes in this theory.

There are many foreigners and Japanese men that don't consider the group B picture woman to be attractive.

Your characterization also appears possibly racially bias (possibly unconsciously so), where Japanese artificially attempting to emulate White features are "beautiful" and natural Japanese/Asian features are "ugly".

There is a group C, by your system I guess, of Japanese women who appear naturally Asian and are prized Internationally by foreigners and domestically by Japanese men. Kurara Chibana for example, Miss Universe Runner Up. You don't have to look fake/plastic or copy a White Western look, to be a pretty Asian woman.

(Kurara Chibana)

 

[Solong]

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Not sure where anyone said cold-approach was the only way to meet women.

Here's Solong talking about it in this thread:


And me in another thread:



Soooo yeah. I too like social circle, and think it's a viable strategy for meeting women. The issue, as I've mentioned before already (wonder why I have to be repetitive...?) is if you either A.) aren't meeting high-value attractive women through your social circle, or B.) can't get laid with them because you don't have the skills to.



I totally agree. That's why we go on MANY dates, more, perhaps, than may be available through your social circle unless your 顔が広い、as they say in Japanese.



Right, and the focus as I mentioned isn't ONLY on the brown hair etc. Here are some more examples of more "natural" looking women in group B.

Both Sinapse and I have explained many times about how PUA uses social circles too as a method. At this point, it appears like some type of bias that doesn't allow factual information through, based on perceived negative beliefs.

It might be beneficial for those criticizing PUA to study on it first or at least try to be objective.

 

[Solong]

I think this has been one of your most interesting posts recently, thanks for sharing! Yeah I guess I went the opposite route, learned how to pickup girls from bars, clubs, streets, trains, etc, and THEN started getting them to have group sex. I've never paid for a woman to sleep with me or be with me for another reason, so it's cool to hear about different things to do with them besides just have sex (sex is very cheap to me.. I would probably choose a good sandwich over sex most days of the week, so can't imagine spending much money on it).

I'm currently starting to explore taking girls to couples kissa / happening bars, but since I'm not sure of the quality inside the bar, I'm going to bring my own party of women in there so w e can have fun even if its dead inside.

Sugarbabies was just an experimental stage in my life that thankfully I didn't get stuck in. I had hit a stage of having a lot more pocket money and it was an idea my pals and I wanted to see if would work.

I may create a thread about what myself and a couple friends did with sugar babies. Quickly- We ended up doing a group buy. Then have the bi-sexual women work for us to find other bi-sexual or hypersexual women. It was mostly a "win win" for the women and us. But there were some hiccups.

Prior to that, I was naturally doing lots of club, bar, beaches, parties/social gatherings, etc... type pickup. Even getting introductions and friend hookups, or hooking up my pals. Just wasn't fully conscious of the seduction process nor had any fully thought out methodology back then. I love having a better understanding of it now, would have been even better when younger (in 20s).

 

[TAG Manager]

Good lord, I just see you chasing each others tails [posts].

Temporary lock.