BBBJ and Japan

[User#8628]

Some shops advertise that they only cbj, you need to pay extra to get bbbj.
But the trick is they recruit girls as no bbbj at first but during the actual interview, tencho tells you that you may get just a few appointments if you don’t open to bbbj option. Same as face picture. When I had an interview with them, they said they were totally fine with face covered pic. But the day they took me to the photo studio, they tried to convince me to change my idea by telling me “when you hide you face on the website, you may get less business. If you agree to show your face, we will put you more clients” “ we will modify the pictures a lot so nobody will recognize you, your risk is very low!” ... tricky tricky.

Oh yes they say that. But you can always stick to your own decision. In this business, both shops and customers can try to push girls to do things they are not comfortable with so its really important to stand your ground and to follow your own rules.

 

[MossBoss]

While I can respect ladies for reviewing their BJ policies in the interests of health and safety. A BBBJ is still much safer than (covered) anal which some ladies still offer!

 

[hawaiianhawk]

Personally, I don't know what the big deal is between bbbj and cbj. Yes, it feels different but is not a big deal breaker. If it makes Simonka, Alice, Minami etc. feel more at ease, it would make me happier. Plus the added benefit would be I would last longer under their skillful manipulations, so it may be a win-win situation. Same for cfs. In full disclosure, I always choose cbj and cfs as I wouldn't want the anxiety of catching anything.

 

[hawaiianhawk]

On another note, comment about showing face getting more business I would think that's true. At least for myself. I need the total package. A woman may have the most desirable body, etc. but without a face pic I would not choose her. Likewise, she may show her face as well and I would not choose her because her facial features may not be what I desire.

 

[Wwanderer]

Well.. it can increase business but what I aim is to lower the STD risk to zero so if I switch to CBJ I’ll switch for good. Not planned for now. I have made a lot of research about BBJ and talked to providers, the risk is low with BBJ but still there.

Yes the diseases are treatable but I don’t want to be on antibiotics all the time. So far I have been careful and lucky.,

I’m more relaxed about HIV test and vag swab check ups because I know I use condoms the right way and I’m okay. I do get monthly check ups of course but I’m not stressed out about it. I get very nervous when I’m getting swab test results tho.

If I switch to CBJ I will probably lower my rates for about 10k.

Fear and anxiety are emotions and as such are not necessarily responsive to rational or objective arguments I realize. But nevertheless, it does help some people to feel more secure when they compare the risk of things that bother/worry them to risks which they routinely accept without a second thought. It is not at all likely imo (I say "imo" because I have not done the research to dig up the numbers) that BBBJs are a major part of the risks of illness or death taken by sex workers in Japan, even just in their work much less in their lives overall.

It is a bit like people in Western Europe worrying about terrorism while traffic accidents do vastly (100s of times) more harm to people and property.

Any TAG indie who does not wear her seatbelt when riding in a taxi on the way to/from an appointment is taking a far greater (and even more easily avoided) risk than she does by giving the client a BBBJ.

I offer this not to belittle anyone's concerns but in hopes that it might help at least some of the ladies feel more at ease in their work...and maybe even convince a few of you to buckle those seatbelts (not that I do).

-Ww

 

[Alexclz]

Exactly the same for me. I’m also most worried about throat tests and i’ve also decided that IF i will switch to only CBJ i will lower my rates with 10k. But no plans to do this yet. It would be if i get more concerned about my own and the general health situation than now.

I don’t think you need to drastically switch to CBJ only, you could just provide an extra lower rate option that includes it to test out how it goes, and if clients respond well to it.

Also not sure what you ment, just wondering what would it take for you and other providers to become more concerned about your own health than now?

@Simonka, I understand the increase in business is not the goal, it’a dropping the STD risk to zero, but I was just saying that it can be beneficial on both sides, for example, if providers had a 10k less option for CBJ I would actually respect that way more than if there wasn’t such option, it tells me the providers are responsible with their health and even puts me more at ease to book them.

 

[Desktop]

Wouldn't this debate & words from ladies start the mindset of guys asking for 10,000 yen off now for CBJ?

 

[Durg50]

Wouldn't this debate & words from ladies start the mindset of guys asking for 10,000 yen off now for CBJ?

Yes. I bet anyone 10,000 yen that all the Indies on here now have at least one message from 'commercially-minded' guys asking for a 10k discount if they wrap up for the BJ.

 

[MossBoss]

The problem with the 'dual BJ' policy is as follows;

1. Those taking the covered option are the guys who are the ones least likely to have been exposed to STDs.

2. The guys who go for the BBBJ option will be the guys who are hardcore mongers. The types who have done BBFS in Thailand for years without ever being tested. Or the guys who do skinless full service in soap lands. BTW, I have been told by a lady working in a soap land that STDs are rife in some shops these days. Soap lands are the STD hotspots in Japan not pink salons as is often stated by uniformed people on these boards.

Anyway, it is impossible to identify the skinless brigade on TAG because they lurk in the shadows, Any hint that they do BBFS they will receive a torrent of abuse so they keep quiet.

 

[Wwanderer]

just wondering what would it take for you and other providers to become more concerned about your own health than now?

The ladies can speak for themselves of course, but I'd think that it would require an increase in the chances of catching an STD from BBBJs (which would mean a higher fraction of customers with STDs) and/or more serious consequences of catching an oral STD (the consequence now is being on antibiotics for a while and perhaps not working for some time).

Isn't it a bit like asking what it would take to convince you to stop traveling on public roads for fear of traffic accidents? What possible (rational) answer is there other than an increase in the accident rate and/or and increase in the the injuries sustained in traffic accidents.

@Simonka, I understand the increase in business is not the goal...[is]...dropping the STD risk to zero,

Perhaps I am taking "zero" too literally, but that does not seem to be either a realistic or a rational goal to me unless one is pursuing the (obviously completely unrealistic) goal of reducing all of the risks of sex work (or life in general) to zero too.

-Ww

 

[User#6517]

The guys who go for the BBBJ option will be the guys who are hardcore mongers. The types who have done BBFS in Thailand for years without ever being tested.

The Thailand/BBFS thing does not make sense to me. Why would a guy who has bareback sex in Thailand for super cheap prices suddenly be interested in escorts in Japan with high-end rates, who clearly state that they don’t offer such service? I would think that they’d go for streetwalkers in Gotanda/Shin-Okubo instead.

Also, if they are willing to pay us 35,000yen and above to spend time with us.. why wouldn’t they pay 7,000-15,000yen for a sexual health check-up?

 

[Wwanderer]

Soap lands are the STD hotspots in Japan not pink salons as is often stated by uniformed people on these boards.

Since FS is the norm in soaplands and BBBJs are very low risk, that makes sense, but do you have any actual evidence for the claim? I'd think it would be very hard to find. And I'd guess that the most extreme STD hotspots in Japan are not associated with p4p at all; "civilians" are typically much less careful, well informed and frequently tested than the pros.

Anyway, it is impossible to identify the skinless brigade on TAG because they lurk in the shadows, Any hint that they do BBFS they will receive a torrent of abuse so they keep quiet.

This is true in nearly all p4p-related online communities, not just on TAG, btw.

-Ww

 

[Durg50]

The Thailand/BBFS thing does not make sense to me. Why would a guy who has bareback sex in Thailand for super cheap prices suddenly be interested in escorts in Japan with high-end rates, who clearly state that they don’t offer such service? I would think that they’d go for streetwalkers in Gotanda/Shin-Okubo instead.

Also, if they are willing to pay us 35,000yen and above to spend time with us.. why wouldn’t they pay 7,000-15,000yen for a sexual health check-up?

to answer your first question; probably because they happen to be in Japan. They like paying for sex, they are here, they are gonna hit you guys up.

2nd; why not go for shin-okubo streetwalkers? because they probably prefer more attractive and younger women.

3rd; why pay 35k for sex and not 7k for a check up? because the medical check up will not result in them ejaculating. because they don't want to know the results. because they are idiots. Im pretty sure you know all this.

 

[MossBoss]

Agree with @Durg50. I would just add that 99 percent of guys wouldn't go to a STD clinic without obvious symptoms. It is not about having enough money to get tested - guys have a different mentality to women.....

 

[Wwanderer]

It is not about having enough money to get tested - guys have a different mentality to women.....

Right, basically they are less intelligent and more cowardly.

-Ww

 

[User#6517]

to answer your first question; probably because they happen to be in Japan. They like paying for sex, they are here, they are gonna hit you guys up.

In my 2 years of escorting, I’ve probably met less than 10 men who’ve visited Thailand and less than 5 who have said that they did mongering in Thailand. It seems rather uncommon, especially considering the time frame.

2nd; why not go for shin-okubo streetwalkers? because they probably prefer more attractive and younger women.

I only mentioned them because their rates are much lower than ours (independents) and would seem more reasonable to men who are used to Thailand’s P4P prices. I’m not sure why the comparison about our looks and theirs was necessary.

3rd; why pay 35k for sex and not 7k for a check up? because the medical check up will not result in them ejaculating. because they don't want to know the results. because they are idiots. Im pretty sure you know all this.

Yes, I know.

 

[MossBoss]

Since FS is the norm in soaplands and BBBJs are very low risk, that makes sense, but do you have any actual evidence for the claim?
-Ww

No statistical evidence. Just what I have been told by a soap land veteran.

 

[Wwanderer]

In my 2 years of escorting, I’ve probably met less than 10 men who’ve visited Thailand and less than 5 who have said that they did mongering in Thailand. It seems rather uncommon, especially considering the time frame.

While this seems sort of surprising to me, not what I would have guessed, it is quite consistent with a bit of other "data" I happen to have. I am a member of a private NYC "monger (only) board", and while there are a bunch of members who have extensive p4p experience in Thailand and some of the other low cost Asian "sex tourist" destinations, there are only a couple of us who have done p4p in Japan, and I'm the only one who has done much at all. They seem to be pretty different communities. Indeed, Japan/Tokyo has a reputation for having a particularly inhospitable p4p scene for business travelers and tourists, especially if they don't speak Japanese (as witnessed by a huge fraction of all posts on TAG), so sex tourists tend to avoid it, and those passing through briefly for some other reason often don't even bother to try. This is somewhat less true than in past decades but seems to still be the general pattern.

The recent wave of Chinese sex tourists is a new situation for the Japanese commercial sex world afaik.

-Ww

 

[MossBoss]

In my 2 years of escorting, I’ve probably met less than 10 men who’ve visited Thailand and less than 5 who have said that they did mongering in Thailand. It seems rather uncommon, especially considering the time frame.
.

Thailand was just an example. I could have said the Philipinnes or somewhere else.

Also how much information do you find out about your clients? Do they tell you all their life histories during a one hour appointment in a love hotel?

I have never been to Thailand and I have no interest in going. If I did go, I wouldn't brag about it. It is assumed most men who go there - indulge in activities with low rent 'barely legal' sex workers.

 

[User#6517]

Thailand was just an example. I could have said the Philipinnes or somewhere else.

Also how much information do you find out about your clients? Do they tell you all their life histories during a one hour appointment in a love hotel?

I have never been to Thailand and I have no interest in going. If I did go, I wouldn't brag about it. It is assumed most men who go there - indulge in activities with low rent 'barely legal' sex workers.

Both of those countries are budget destinations for sex tourism, though.

I often ask my clients if they like traveling and other countries or experiences in other countries get mentioned. I don’t try to pry for information or collect it.

You claimed that the same guys who have bareback sex in Thailand are the same guys who book us higher-end indies in Japan, and I only gave you my opinion. I thought you’d at least be interested in it as I’m someone who actually works in the sex industry. Didn’t mean to offend you.

 

[Durg50]

I only mentioned them because their rates are much lower than ours (independents) and would seem more reasonable to men who are used to Thailand’s P4P prices. I’m not sure why the comparison about our looks and theirs was necessary.

Because it literally answers the question?

 

[MikeH]

It is assumed most men who go there - indulge in activities with low rent 'barely legal' sex workers.

That is an interesting assumption which doesn't at all resemble the guys I know who visit Thailand regularly for business and pleasure. Also in the boards I use to participate the discussion concentrates solely on the legal shops, which there are plenty.

Thailand provides pretty much the same services than Japan, from pink salons to soaplands. Not very surprising when you consider nowadays lots of the customers are Japanese and Koreans. The level of services and the cleanliness of the establishments is on par with Japan, just that the prices are (still) much lower than they are here.

 

[Lars Lust]

A BBBJ is still much safer than (covered) anal which some ladies still offer!

Why is covered anal much riskier? I would think that the male gay community - and many others- would be surprised to hear that. I am.

 

[MossBoss]

Didn’t mean to offend you.

Don't worry you have never offended me. I enjoy reading your insights.

 

[MikeH]

Why is covered anal much riskier?

Because BBBJ is so low risk that pretty much anything else is riskier? Also of course BBBJ is what it is pretty much regardless what you do. Covered anal is low risk as long as you stay covered; being blasted, not knowing how to use the rubber, using too little lube and many other factors can lead the covered anal turning in to a bareback anal after the condom breaks and then popping in to anal is pretty much the riskiest thing you can do in sex.