Called a Pink Salon. They asked for my citizenship, what is the logic behind this?

At the end of the 50 minute session, they are not jizzing in the chef's mouth.

Please don't give away business ideas for free!

But I still find it funny, in a very non funny way, that when I cannot get into a pink salon I think that is terrible racist but I do say nothing when at that same night in the pub I meet a Japanese spinner who only fucks white guys.
 
Dude, you are getting so agitated that you are getting your own message all tangled up. I was talking about the law being on your side and you are now talking about not getting your dick wet in the first shop you want to enter. The law says private businesses can select their customer, so you can prohibit whatever you want.

Is it discrimination? Hell yeah. Does it bother me? Not that much, I will just take my monies to someone willing to take it. Can I change it? Well, let's start with world peace and then come back to this.

What I am saying this is not a hill you want to die on. Do you know what happens when you get angry because a p4p shop doesn't let you in or because some random dude in an anonymous internet board picks on you? Yeah, what happens is you feel miserable while everyone else continues their lives as before. No matter how bad you feel the shop won't let you in nor the guy will stop picking on your logic mistakes.

If you continue you can become the Debito of TAG and will have four loyal anonymous dudes cheering you on on your hopeless crusade. Meanwhile the rest of us continue to share information on the places they let us in and enjoy life as best as we can.

You've lost the argument and your mind when "selecting" customers based on race is OK to you.
270236505_3107393222851374_5193877631251847489_n.jpg
 
For reference:
“Sakoku(鎖国)” means national isolation, self-sufficiency, and total exclusion of foreigners in Japan back in Edo era. This cultural mentality still exists and now filters into "no foreigners allowed due to COVID/HIV/etc".
Yet, in the year 2021, we have people defending partial elements of it.
 
I did not even make the claim that Japanese law is discriminatory, those are your words.

This is exactly what you were trying to imply. And now that you've been firmly corrected on that front by a couple of people who regularly deal with the legal system here, you're moving the goalposts.

What is clearly discriminatory, is these "Japanese only" establishments.

Nobody has said that it is not discriminatory, nor that it is necessarily right. It is, unfortunately, the way things are. Many of these establishments have had negative experiences with foreign nationals and decided not to allow non-Japanese clientele in the future. These negative experiences include violence directed at the providers, poor personal hygiene, demanding service that is not on offer at the establishment, haggling over the price, and various others. Yes, these issues are also occasionally occurring with Japanese clientele - but the argument is that it is easier to handle the Japanese rulebreakers because there is no language barrier, and they have local ties that can be leveraged to ensure compliance. Other establishments (particularly brick and mortar shops) judge that their Japanese clientele would be put off by seeing foreign faces in the shop, and don't want to endanger their core business. We may not agree with these rationalisations, but it is the way things are at the moment.

There is nothing in Japanese law that forbids discrimination on the basis of race or nationality. The Japanese government is, however, signatory to the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, and some judges have taken this to stand in lieu of such a law. In 1998 a Brazilian resident of Japan, Ana Bortz, sued a jewelry store for racial discrimination after she was ejected from the shop because of her nationality. She won, was awarded damages of 1.5 million yen, and established this precedent.

You are perfectly free to sue this establishment. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has yet attempted to sue an adult services provider for racial exclusion.

I look forward to reading about your case in the news.
 
You are perfectly free to sue this establishment. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has yet attempted to sue an adult services provider for racial exclusion.

that would be fun to watch indeed
Also the OP probably assumes they accept all Japanese clients. Not necessarily the case . There is the anti-tattoo policy for example. Or anti homeless or whatever. Not even a policy is needed in fact. Usually there is a signboard or disclaimer on the site saying that the management can refuse access to anyone. And that’s the way it is. Not just in Japan by the way.
So yeah, not worth riding a Social Justice Warrior high horse. Just bring your busibess elsewhere . Or rub one out, after all we don’t talk about life or death , absolutely vital services here. It’s not even like being prevented to ride a bus to go to work
 
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I think you need to get a better lawyer. I communicate with Japanese lawyers pretty much in weekly basis and never has any of them even hinted we should avoid taking any actions because "the law doesn't favour you".

Hilarious. I suggest reviewing your legal advisors. Foreigners have less rights than Japanese nationals, this is absolutely normal. Therefore, any legal action for foreigners will be limited compared to Japanese nationals. This is basic knowledge, and I am astounded how you do not even know this.
 
And for your next trick, clairvoyance!
As you follow up with....

Foreigners have less rights than Japanese nationals, this is absolutely normal. Therefore, any legal action for foreigners will be limited compared to Japanese nationals.

Let's break that down:

Foreigners have less rights than Japanese nationals, this is absolutely normal.

Resident foreign nationals specifically do not have the right to hold public office at the national level, receive welfare, work in sensitive government jobs (police, fire, military, national intelligence), vote in prefectural or national level elections, or remain resident after being convicted of a serious crime or breach of immigration law. Foreign residents not possessing permanent residence or spouse/dependent of a Japanese national status of residence may not work in adult entertainment establishments/services.

Otherwise, the rights of a foreign resident are exactly the same as those of a Japanese national.

Foreigners have less rights than Japanese nationals, this is absolutely normal. Therefore, any legal action for foreigners will be limited compared to Japanese nationals.

Any legal action at all? Fascinating.

Would love to hear some specific examples.
 
Hilarious. I suggest reviewing your legal advisors. Foreigners have less rights than Japanese nationals, this is absolutely normal. Therefore, any legal action for foreigners will be limited compared to Japanese nationals. This is basic knowledge, and I am astounded how you do not even know this.

It’s reasonable to complain, but now you are turning this into an accusation. What the fuck are @MikeH and @Sudsy going to do about it?

Do you think they have some magic switch that’ll make the tencho all be like, “oh gee we shouldn’t discriminate; Sora-chan, he doesn’t speak Japanese and doesn’t know when to stop. Suck it for 45 minutes kthxbye!”

Seriously, get the flipping fuck over yourself. Even with all of this bitching and moaning, nothing is going to change unless Japan wants to change. Please, just go and dammit fail trying to sue the pink salon and leave the rest of us to happily fuck as we please.

As an American POC that gets plenty of p4p here, I don’t feel sorry for you.
 
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Hilarious. I suggest reviewing your legal advisors. Foreigners have less rights than Japanese nationals, this is absolutely normal. Therefore, any legal action for foreigners will be limited compared to Japanese nationals. This is basic knowledge, and I am astounded how you do not even know this.

you have to forgive MikeH: he’s still a young student. Wide-eyed and idealistic. He’ll live and learn :D
 
Surprised that no one has pointed this out, but there is a certain shop that we refrain from mentioning on TAG, that has an exclusive "foreigners only" policy.
 
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This is exactly what you were trying to imply. And now that you've been firmly corrected on that front by a couple of people who regularly deal with the legal system here, you're moving the goalposts.



Nobody has said that it is not discriminatory, nor that it is necessarily right. It is, unfortunately, the way things are. Many of these establishments have had negative experiences with foreign nationals and decided not to allow non-Japanese clientele in the future. These negative experiences include violence directed at the providers, poor personal hygiene, demanding service that is not on offer at the establishment, haggling over the price, and various others. Yes, these issues are also occasionally occurring with Japanese clientele - but the argument is that it is easier to handle the Japanese rulebreakers because there is no language barrier, and they have local ties that can be leveraged to ensure compliance. Other establishments (particularly brick and mortar shops) judge that their Japanese clientele would be put off by seeing foreign faces in the shop, and don't want to endanger their core business. We may not agree with these rationalisations, but it is the way things are at the moment.

There is nothing in Japanese law that forbids discrimination on the basis of race or nationality. The Japanese government is, however, signatory to the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, and some judges have taken this to stand in lieu of such a law. In 1998 a Brazilian resident of Japan, Ana Bortz, sued a jewelry store for racial discrimination after she was ejected from the shop because of her nationality. She won, was awarded damages of 1.5 million yen, and established this precedent.

You are perfectly free to sue this establishment. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has yet attempted to sue an adult services provider for racial exclusion.

I look forward to reading about your case in the news.
I unfortunately lack the two key must-haves to visit a pink salon, a Japanese passport and male genitalia. Therefore I cannot speak of my personal experiences on the subject, but discrimination in Japan? I’ve had a few incidents. However my positive experiences, for the most part outweigh these negative experiences. Japan is just a country as it is, it’s not dreamland or kawaiiland. Japan doesn’t owe anything to me. It’s not perfect, and it’s utterly pointless to force yourself into circles where you’re overtly unwanted.

Landlords, employers, or even hairdressers may not want you. The reason is not always racism, it can be more complicated than that. But do you really want to live in an apartment complex where the local residents avoid eye contact with you? Would you like to work in an office where you have walk on eggshells all the time? It’s soul draining after a while. Do you really need to walk into *that* ramen shop, when there are hundreds of them who would be happy to serve you? It’s about having a certain mindset that makes living in Japan a lot easier, I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but if one wants to be happy in Japan they have to be comfortable with the fact that they’re a foreigner. I’ve seen rampant nationalism, cherry picking historical facts, chauvinism, patriotism, and even genocide denial elsewhere, Japan doesn’t expose foreigners to these ideologies that much.

About sex workers, it’s true that girls stop seeing a certain demographic after having consecutive bad experiences with them. It’s hard to blame them. People deal with trauma differently and we need to respect girls who want a break.
 
I unfortunately lack the two key must-haves to visit a pink salon, a Japanese passport and male genitalia.

I would like to point out that most of us here don't really consider the latter fact being that much unfortunate. :p
 
I would like to point out that most of us here don't really consider the latter fact being that much unfortunate. :p
I am Frenchy and I approve this message
I can personnally vouch that Simonke is much better off without a dick
 
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Understood...and we need to go back to my point about sexual preferences. Discrimination is bad, and so is the impracticality of creating a business to make money where your own employees will refuse to comply with the service because the conditions aren't acceptable for them.

A couple of years ago I went to pink salon in Shiga and emptied a massive load in the oral cavity of an unsuspecting gyaru. It was far more than she anticipated and she was visibly pissed. I apologized for feeling so good and walked out very much refreshed with an awkward, jarring feeling of regret that I couldn't cum less for her.

After that one load, she decided to stop servicing ALL foreigners. The tencho told me it was literally my fault. From that point on it was Japanese guys only. It was her fucking decision, and as stupid as I think it was, I have to try and see things from her end (ugh), because this is not as cut and dry as my folks sitting at lunch counters: At the end of the 50 minute session, they are not jizzing in the chef's mouth.

I completely agree with the case you describe. If the girl doesn’t want to service a foreigner, she shouldn’t have to.

But based on observation, it seems like a greater percentage of women are willing to accept foreigners than the percentage of shops. For example, you can check the profiles of girls for Delice Shinjuku, which has it written whether the girl will accept foreigners or not. Based on a cursory check, it seems like greater than 50% will accept you if you speak basic Japanese.

On the other hand, try calling up some stores in Yoshiwara and ask them if the accept foreigners. Out of the ones I’ve tried asking that will accept foreigners it is definitely lower than 50%, probably 10% or less.

My point is that if you left it up to the girls to decide, you would have many many more options for P2P in Tokyo than you would today. In other words, the shops are much more discriminatory than the girls on average.
 
I completely agree with the case you describe. If the girl doesn’t want to service a foreigner, she shouldn’t have to.

But based on observation, it seems like a greater percentage of women are willing to accept foreigners than the percentage of shops. For example, you can check the profiles of girls for Delice Shinjuku, which has it written whether the girl will accept foreigners or not. Based on a cursory check, it seems like greater than 50% will accept you if you speak basic Japanese.

On the other hand, try calling up some stores in Yoshiwara and ask them if the accept foreigners. Out of the ones I’ve tried asking that will accept foreigners it is definitely lower than 50%, probably 10% or less.

My point is that if you left it up to the girls to decide, you would have many many more options for P2P in Tokyo than you would today. In other words, the shops are much more discriminatory than the girls on average.
Acceptance rates are higher at delivery places because they don’t have to consider the Japanese clients coming face to face with a foreign national. Soaps have to consider the impact on their business of their Japanese customers meeting a foreigner in the waiting room, or seeing foreign faces walking In or out of the joint.
 
Acceptance rates are higher at delivery places because they don’t have to consider the Japanese clients coming face to face with a foreign national. Soaps have to consider the impact on their business of their Japanese customers meeting a foreigner in the waiting room, or seeing foreign faces walking In or out of the joint.

Yes, this is exactly my point from before. The business is the source of discrimination and not the women themselves. Whether they do it out of outright dislike for foreigners or reluctant consideration for other Japanese who dislike foreigners leads to the same discriminatory behavior much like 1950s lunch counters in the American South. Either way, the source of the hate is definitely more on the side of the Japanese men, whether it is the business or the customers. As long as there are no laws that ban discrimination, unfortunately this will be the result.
 
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Yes, this is exactly my point from before. The business is the source of discrimination and not the women themselves. Whether they do it out of outright dislike for foreigners or reluctant consideration for other Japanese who dislike foreigners leads to the same discriminatory behavior much like 1950s lunch counters in the American South. Either way, the source of the hate is definitely more on the side of the Japanese men, whether it is the business or the customers. As long as there are no laws that ban discrimination, unfortunately this will be the result.
When I see the comparison to the 1950s south, dude, I have to respectfully make this important point.

The 1950s South regularly lynched my people and well, I haven’t seen any foreigners hanging around on street lights in Shibuya. Furthermore, I never have seen separate washrooms for us, not have I seen separate dining areas for us in restaurants. The comparison is a gross over calculation of what discrimination is.

This discrimination is a blend of business calculation with the nationalism of pissy uyoku groups who say a lot but do pretty much nothing. It sucks and we would like it to change, but it isn’t. TAG cannot change the law of the land.
 
When I see the comparison to the 1950s south, dude, I have to respectfully make this important point.

The 1950s South regularly lynched my people and well, I haven’t seen any foreigners hanging around on street lights in Shibuya. Furthermore, I never have seen separate washrooms for us, not have I seen separate dining areas for us in restaurants. The comparison is a gross over calculation of what discrimination is.

This discrimination is a blend of business calculation with the nationalism of pissy uyoku groups who say a lot but do pretty much nothing. It sucks and we would like it to change, but it isn’t. TAG cannot change the law of the land.

100% agreed
The comparisons between historical horrors (be it slavery, holocaust, blacks’ lynchings etc) and comparatively menial inconveniences (be it being refused access to a local pussy or forced to wear a mask etc ) start to really get on my nerves too. And it happens more and more.
 
the same discriminatory behavior much like 1950s lunch counters in the American South
Hyperbole much? I haven't seen any foreigners getting beaten in the street or strung up from trees in the 30+ years I've been here.