Catfished in a BIG Way, aka, Bait and Switch

[akasam]

I think most of the people in this forum fully understand the reasons why foreigners are often rejected. None of those reasons is they will not accept bait and switch.

One of the main reasons is that there are often misunderstandings that are compounded by cultural and language issues. This is one of them.

Well, in my opinion a man needs to have his principles to be a man. Otherwise you are just a doormat. Of course it would be better if those principles would be sensible but you can't always have everything.

Yeah, principles like treating others with respect, being nice to animals, .... Sure, those are admirable.

Making an issue out of something where you have suffered no harm? That's just being a macho jerk who is galled that someone is trying to take advantage of him.

I have never seen a Japanese guy return a Kirin when he ordered an Asahi. Americans (and others) make petty stands like that all the time (even though they both taste the same to me) and I think it's embarrassing and tiresome. Returning a Kirin when you ordered a Hitochino, sure - but for the umpteenth time that is not what we're talking about here.

I am one of those who refuse to patronise places that have gaijin tax. I totally understand it sometimes causes me to miss a good deal, but that's the price I am willing to take. But with that it is also easier as those places normally advertise openly their prices; they don't try to lure you in with cheaper prices and then just slap you with additional prices after you order. So I can just choose not to go there, no scene and no fuss.

And no one should possibly have an issue with you on this. It is a futile gesture, but it is no one's business if you choose to harm yourself, even over a stupid principle.

I think the misassumption you make is that you need to act as an asshole if you reject a girl.

Nope, not making that assumption at all. Just making the assumption that you are causing trouble in a situation where nobody is harmed. Your actions hurt yourself, hurt the business and instead of the business coming to your way of thinking they are just as likely to start not dealing with foreigners altogether (or send their worst girls since it's not as big a loss).

 

[Fluvveh]

You asked if I would go to a place where I don't get to nominate the girl. What relevant detail do you think I overlooked?

The part where you do nominate a girl and get bait and switched? Ya know the whole point to this arguement? So ill be clearer.

Would you actively go to such an agency and nominate a girl while knowing that you're going to get bait and switched?

One of the main reasons is that there are often misunderstandings that are compounded by cultural and language issues. This is one of them.

referring to a shitty business practice that can and does happen anywhere in the world as a cultural and/or language misunderstanding.

 

[MikeH]

Just making the assumption that you are causing trouble in a situation where nobody is harmed.

Well, that's the other misassumption you are making. You think everyone should be happy with Kirin even if they ordered Asahi because you think they taste the same. And you fail to understand that some people know the difference and care about it.

With restaurants and beer there are quite big differences though. I have still yet never seen a restaurant that carries only Kirin but decides to advertise they have Asahi. And also if the restaurant made an honest mistake with my order and I politely notify them they would change it with an apology.

And if my refusal to accept a bait and switch from a shop hurts their business then that's a good thing.

 

[whocares]

Indeed, Asahi is disgusting...Kirin for the win! (Sapporo is good too)

 

[MikeH]

Indeed, Asahi is disgusting...Kirin for the win! (Sapporo is good too)

You are a disgusting individual, because of people like you they refuse to serve beer to foreigners in many places. Asahi for me at least when I can't afford the local craft beers. Which is pretty much all the time as they are hideously priced; 1.700 yens for a pint, are you for real?

 

[whocares]

Am I for real? I would rather burn in hell for eternity than drink that Super Dry horror show! Two of my fondest memories in Japan are of Kirin...we can't get it much here (aside from mid to high end sushi places) but I have it whenever it is on offer.

I say if they refuse to serve me because Asahi is terrible then that's not an establishment I would want any part of! Kirin 4 Life!

PS - Wow, that's an expensive pint! Any local craft brews that you know anybody who has taste could recommend?

 

[akasam]

The part where you do nominate a girl and get bait and switched? Ya know the whole point to this arguement?

Except you're not nominating a girl are you? That's the very premise of your question.

Would you actively go to such an agency and nominate a girl while knowing that you're going to get bait and switched?

Yes, I would go to a place that had decent girls where I know I can't choose the girl. Why is this hard to understand?

I wouldn't go to this place in particular as I don't share the tastes of the OP and likely wouldn't be happy with the random girl they provided.

 

[Fluvveh]

Except you're not nominating a girl are you? That's the very premise of your question.

Yes, I would go to a place that had decent girls where I know I can't choose the girl. Why is this hard to understand?

I wouldn't go to this place in particular as I don't share the tastes of the OP and likely wouldn't be happy with the random girl they provided.

Dodging this hard
Except you are choosing a girl but the establishment has no intention of fulfilling that choice
And before you ask what's the difference. The difference between a place where you don't get a choice and the place in question is that one is actively trying to deceive you.

 

[akasam]

Well, that's the other misassumption you are making. You think everyone should be happy with Kirin even if they ordered Asahi because you think they taste the same. And you fail to understand that some people know the difference and care about it.

You make a lot of misassumptions about the misassumptions you think I'm making.

I absolutely think that people have preferences between different beers (even terrible beers like Asahi and Kirin). The point is not that sending one back is NEVER the right thing to do, it's that "principled" people like yourself will send it back, even though they don't care. They/you are too afraid of looking like a chump or getting taken advantage of.

It doesn't matter that your food will be cold by the time your new beer comes. They'll learn you are not a man to be trifled with!

(And then you wonder why all the servers have made themselves scarce because they don't want to deal with you.)

 

[Fluvveh]

You make a lot of misassumptions about the misassumptions you think I'm making.

I absolutely think that people have preferences between different beers (even terrible beers like Asahi and Kirin). The point is not that sending one back is NEVER the right thing to do, it's that "principled" people like yourself will send it back, even though they don't care. They/you are too afraid of looking like a chump or getting taken advantage of.

It doesn't matter that your food will be cold by the time your new beer comes. They'll learn you are not a man to be trifled with!

(And then you wonder why all the servers have made themselves scarce because they don't want to deal with you.)

>implying the servers know you don't care and are sending the beer back based on principle
>implying it takes more than 2 minutes to get a beer
>implying the staff would actively avoid you because of their own fuck up

This is why the beer analogy is bad

 

[akasam]

Dodging this hard
Except you are choosing a girl but the establishment has no intention of fulfilling that choice
And before you ask what's the difference. The difference between a place where you don't get a choice and the place in question is that one is actively trying to deceive you.

You know they don't do nominations. I know they don't do nominations. Why are you pretending they do?

I really don't care that some random establishment thinks they are deceiving me if I get what I want.

That is the difference here. You, Mike, et al. just can't stand that thought and are willing to waste your time and effort to not suffer the shame of someone getting one over you (even though that is all in your head).

That is a terrible way to live your life, IMO.

 

[akasam]

>implying the servers know you don't care and are sending the beer back based on principle
>implying it takes more than 2 minutes to get a beer
>implying the staff would actively avoid you because of their own fuck up

This is why the beer analogy is bad

I made far fewer assumptions here than you guys have made in the hypothetical escort girl case.

 

[User#8628]

I think the business model of cheap Chinese delivery healths is to just send the girl the have available if they cant send the girl that the guy requested. So she may be same level pretty, but its just too hard for them to scedule the girls with the client's wishes because girls would have to wait around and they'd lose money, opposed to sending any available girl.
So its not usual, but you could definitely get an upgrade from what you were expecting.
Those cheap foreign shops have a lot of shady stuff going on, they're certainly not trustable. So using them would be at your own risk. There are services with a better reputation out there.
I do also think that services like this should just say honestly that you cant choose the girl. That way guys know what to expect and some guys may still use them because its good budget and the girls are generally not unattractive.
What bothered me most about e-smile's review (not the one discussed here) was that they made him wait for over 3 hours and still send a different girl. That was really unnecessary. I suppose that they had "Kaito" working for them at some point, but she went back to her country which they seem to do pretty fast usually, and they kept her pictures up to attract guys. That would explain her unavailability.

Just my guess.

 

[User#8628]

@TAG Manager, hasn't all been said here?

If anything, it has gone off topic from the review.

 

[MikeH]

Two of my fondest memories in Japan are of Kirin...

Then regardless of your taste in beers I would say you are missing a lot! I mean with the millions of girls here your two top memories are of a beer?

Any local craft brews that you know anybody who has taste could recommend?

I guess it is now well established I don't have any taste but I'll chip in anyway. From the places I have been in Tokyo I think Devil Craft has had the best collection. I don't like their food nor the service though. Craftsman would be my second choice though their "large" beer is 350ml which is pure blasphemy.

 

[whocares]

The last time I was in Japan was 1997...I'd just finished undergrad and Japan was my first solo trip to a REALLY foreign country...while I def admired the ladies, the thought that something like [Redacted] existed wasn't even on my radar and if it had been, I was super not in a position to afford it anyway...and I do not remember having a single English conversation outside of the hotel in Tokyo and Nagoya the entire trip, so meeting a nice gal and hooking up never even occurred to me.

Is there like a craft beer that is decently available though? Something I should ask for in Golden Gai or similar?

 

[akasam]

I think the business model of cheap Chinese delivery healths is to just send the girl the have available if they cant send the girl that the guy requested.

Bingo. Two things here are critical to understand.

One, this is not a classic bait and switch (from all appearances), most people totally overuse this term (and catfishing). They are not putting up pictures of random girls and then sending completely different girls. These places are doing exactly what Alice said, in all likelihood, the girl chosen is a real girl who is booked or otherwise indisposed. The business is not going out of their way to deceive, they just have a customer and they don't want to let him go so they try to make him as happy as possible with a replacement. Canceling, rebooking, etc. are all going to be a big hassle (especially with a foreigner) and cost them money. This is a dishonest practice, but it is in the same ballpark as places that have photos that are 5 years old, misadvertise the girl's age and weight, etc. This brings us to ...

Two, this is not a super high class establishment. Expecting supreme service and perfect accuracy in details is unrealistic, even in Japan. You don't have to like it, you don't have to keep the girl. But the indignation and principled stands is just silly.

FWIW.

 

[akasam]

Is there like a craft beer that is decently available though? Something I should ask for in Golden Gai or similar?

I don't think there is a decent beer in all of Golden Gai. Stick to whiskey or sake (or even absinthe).

There are a few places in or near Shinjuku, but probably not Kabukicho or Golden Gai. You're not allowed to have everything good (beer, food, pussy) in one place. You only get to choose two.

 

[akasam]

@TAG Manager, hasn't all been said here?

If anything, it has gone off topic from the review.

Nobody in the conversation is going to change their minds on this today. The only hope is that some newbies don't get sucked in to the sham of making their lives more difficult just to take a pointless stand.

I've seen too many get turned to the dark side by bitter and poor elder forum members who have an agenda they want to push. Although to be clear, I absolutely don't think that of you guys here. Yet ;-)