Considering going with a 19 year old SB. Is this madness?

[Wwanderer]

Or you could follow the old maxim: Dont ever do anything you wouldn't want you mother to see you doing.

I do believe that I have violated that maxim more than a few times...

-Ww

 

[MikeH]

In Japan I think the magic age is 20. 20 or above is fair game

This has been discussed here before and for sex 18 is good, just don't drink with her.

 

[warubuta]

This has been discussed here before and for sex 18 is good, just don't drink with her.

There is no definite good or bad in the court of public opinion. My experience (yours may be different) is that most people think that older men with 19 year old girls = What a creep! She's a child! He took advantage! 20 years old = Shes young but shes old enough to make her own decisions...oh well.

 

[Wwanderer]

society at large will hang you up by your gaijin balls to swing in the wind. ... you are exposed and on trial in the court of public opinion...

If I gave even the tiniest of a flying fuck about what society at large thinks of me or the court of public opinion decides about me, I probably would have (quite literally) spent my life as a poor, semi-literate dirt farmer who never traveled more than a couple of hundred miles from my birthplace. Judge yourself and let others judge themselves.

Easier said than done, I know, but it actually isn't impossible.

-Ww

 

[warubuta]

If I gave even the tiniest of a flying fuck about what society at large thinks of me or the court of public opinion decides about me, I probably would have (quite literally) spent my life as a poor, semi-literate dirt farmer who never traveled more than a couple of hundred miles from my birthplace. Judge yourself and let others judge themselves.

Easier said than done, I know, but it actually isn't impossible.

-Ww

Kudos to you and your blazing individualism! So I guess that means you are up for having sex with 15 year old girls? The point is that most people would like others to abide by what they themselves feel is OK. What do you feel is OK? It has nothing to do with being contrained in your actions by what others might think about you. Think about it. Maybe you should have stayed on the farm....just kidding.

 

[Wwanderer]

So I guess that means you are up for having sex with 15 year old girls?

Of course not, not by my own values, but in any case, I am not advocating ignoring *laws* but only not allowing other people's *opinions* to control your decisions.

Listening to other people's opinions and considering their possible wisdom is also not the same thing as fearing their opinions.

-Ww

 

[warubuta]

Did I say that other peoples opinions were controlling my actions? My only point was that in my experience, most Japanese people look at a 19 year old as a child and a 20 year old as an adult. My other only point was that, no matter what 'rules' you might follow with your 18 or 19 year old girl, most people are still going to think you are an asshole. Maybe you don't care what people think. Fair enough. I dont either. But if you do care, 20 is, in my expereince, the magic number. That is all I said. I didnt say anything about living a life in fear of what other people might think about me. Unfortunately you inferred that I did, and you took the opportunity to let me know that you are a strong individualist and by inference I am weak. That is why I suggested you might have been better off staying on the farm. Its all good.

 

[vondoom]

ever thought about why japanese society hangs you by the gaijin balls? thank you and your lot...

well i never wondered about that obvious question, but what i wonder about is: what do people with that age gap talk about? the college life you forgot? or the work experience she never had?

 

[vondoom]

oh and what i forgot, i actually do believe that if there wasnt any age of consent, men would bang 15 year old children...

 

[warubuta]

Exakalakaly. What the hell would you talk about with your 19/20yr old SB? I dont get the whole pay for companionship SB thing. Expecially if it is with a 19/20 year old. If you have a 20 yr old girl who you pay for sex regularly, and if as part of this there is decent conversation, fine. But the idea of paying a much younger girl to pretend to be your girlfriend and pretend to actually be attracted to your wrinkly face and beer belly (just speaking for myself here), that is something that I just do not get.

 

[TAG Manager]

that is something that I just do not get.

And that's fine, but others see the value or choose to do so without the emotional hangups or attachments.
Please don't forget where you're posting -- please don't criticize people for their personal choices whether it's paid or not.

 

[TAG Manager]

oh and what i forgot, i actually do believe that if there wasnt any age of consent, men would bang 15 year old children...

Please keep all discussion focused on the legal age of 18+ for the purposes of this site, thank you!

 

[warubuta]

And that's fine, but others see the value or choose to do so without the emotional hangups or attachments.
Please don't forget where you're posting -- please don't criticize people for their personal choices whether it's paid or not.

I have never criticized anyone. But critical thinking and commentary is something I think you should encourage. It is the lifeblood of a good forum. My point is that I fully understand paying for sex. I do it regularly. And I will pay more if it includes some good conversation and exchange of intelligent opinions etc. My other point is that I dont understand people who pay for make-believe girlfriends. Is it a problem that some people here do that and that I don't understand it? They should be free to explain why they do it? I thought that is what this forum was about.

 

[TAG Manager]

Is it a problem that some people here do that and that I don't understand it? They should be free to explain why they do it? I thought that is what this forum was about.

It's fine to ask questions but your comments read as criticism. If people read you as hostile, they won't be so willing to communicate their reasons with you. We've also learned from past experiences that people just can't agree to disagree.

As far as 'paying for a pretend girlfriend' -- the common traits here are simple: Either they don't want to spend the time looking for the same situation in a natural environment or possibly they cannot otherwise attract the type that they are searching for. OTOH, some guys just have money to blow and want to have someone to treat.

There is a multitude of reasons that some people may want to share, or maybe they don't.

 

[warubuta]

It's fine to ask questions but your comments read as criticism. If people read you as hostile, they won't be so willing to communicate their reasons with you.
We've also learned from past experiences that people just can't agree to disagree.

As far as 'paying for a pretend girlfriend' -- the common traits here are simple: Either they don't want to spend the time looking for the same situation in a natural environment or possibly they cannot otherwise attract the type that they are searching for. OTOH, some guys just have money to blow and want to have someone to treat.

There is a multitude of reasons that some people may want to share, or maybe they don't.

If any of my comments read to you as personal criticism, then I think you should reread my comments and you should give your readers a bit more credit. They can handle it. I understand the motivations of paying for a pretend girlfriend as you explain them. Obviously, some people have the ability to ignore the fact that they are paying for someone to act like their friend. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to enjoy it. I am incapable of this. To me this ability is either genius or psychopathy or a little of both. I would like to understand it better, but you would rather I not ask.....

 

[TAG Manager]

If any of my comments read to you as personal criticism, then I think you should reread my comments and you should give your readers a bit more credit.

I'm responding out of experience here. I'm not just randomly picking on you or nitpicking.

To me this ability is either genius or psychopathy or a little of both. I would like to understand it better, but you would rather I not ask.....

You can ask all you want, just politely... but I'm thinking that no one's explanation will really convince you one way or the other. But I tell you, there is a reason why sites like SA and the dating clubs rake in so much money, they are many people out there with lots of money and stressful lives that just want someone to call on when their need is the greatest.

 

[tokyosteven77]

tokyosteven and all the others with your "it depends" spiel. Please. When you're 35, or 45, or 55, and you're dealing with an 18 year old, then no, it doesn't depend, not by default

Hmm ok. So like your saying that if the guy was 34 then it's fine? No risk of 'damaging' the girl and no 'responsibilty'? But from 35 onwards, older guys run the risk of permanently corrupting young girls and have to treat them as fragile objects, bearing all the responsibilty?

First, I think you are undermining her sexuality and ability to make choices to the extent of being patronising. Like she is some precious flower who needs to be carefully and gently 'unwrapped' by you, the older 'teacher'. That kind of smacks of a creepy 'kind daddy' act, instead of going into this as two consenting adults and being upfront. If its clear that after meeting her, the dynamic and vibe is not like two consenting adults, then its wrong. I guess where we differ is that I feel I can judge that from the offset. It just happens automatically in fact, as if it wasnt like that, the attraction wouldnt be there anyway. To me, your original post didnt sound like anything dodgy, it sounded like you have genuine rapport and chemistry, and she seems grown up enough to have a relationship, which she is actively looking for.

Of course there is an age where its wrong. But I feel that the law at 18 covers that well enough. From my two experiences with 19 year olds, and my memory of 18 year olds from my youth, I can't agree the 'default' assumption is that 18 year olds dont know what they want and need to wrapped up in cotton wool, which suddenly changes at 20 or something.

Secondly, in terms of your abilty to hurt or damage her, I cant see any difference to a younger guy. Are you saying that its ok for a guy in his 20s to fuck and dump her? Do you think its more damaging if an older guy mistreats her than a younger guy? Girls her age are horny, want fun, excitement and sex. Perfectly natural, and IMHO (for another discussion) its perfectly natural she would want it with someone older. And if she not doing it with an older guy, she would be with someone her own age, but still running the exact same risks of getting hurt, mistreated or whatever. (Arguably more so, given the immaturity of younger guys)

Sure she can get hurt, and so can you. My opinion its a matter of decency and sensitivity how you treat people, not so much magic numbers. If she is looking for a relationship with an older guy (for money!) then she also has to bear some responsility. Yes even at 18. Personally, I think suggesting otherwise is patronising.

Having said all that I do not actively go around looking for 18 year olds. Personally if im on a dating app 21 is my lower filter usually. But if I met someone younger and the mutual attraction was there I wouldnt back away provided it was legal (which was my only concern in the original post).

 

[Wwanderer]

Did I say that other peoples opinions were controlling my actions? My only point was that in my experience, most Japanese people look at a 19 year old as a child and a 20 year old as an adult. My other only point was that, no matter what 'rules' you might follow with your 18 or 19 year old girl, most people are still going to think you are an asshole. Maybe you don't care what people think. Fair enough. I dont either. But if you do care, 20 is, in my expereince, the magic number. That is all I said. I didnt say anything about living a life in fear of what other people might think about me. Unfortunately you inferred that I did, and you took the opportunity to let me know that you are a strong individualist and by inference I am weak. That is why I suggested you might have been better off staying on the farm. Its all good.

We are misreading each other a lot it appears. Your post that first mentioned "court of public opinion" and 20 yo being a magic age in people's opinions (not something I ever notice, btw and fwiiw) appeared to me to be giving people advice or warning, but perhaps that is not what you intended. My response *was* intended as advice to ignore such considerations for the most part but was *not* what you read into it, namely a criticism of you or the way you live your life (about which I know nothing and have no particular reason to care). Nothing really to argue about here as far as I can see.

-Ww

 

[warubuta]

Hmm ok. So like your saying that if the guy was 34 then it's fine? No risk of 'damaging' the girl and no 'responsibilty'? But from 35 onwards, older guys run the risk of permanently corrupting young girls and have to treat them as fragile objects, bearing all the responsibilty?

First, I think you are undermining her sexuality and ability to make choices to the extent of being patronising. Like she is some precious flower who needs to be carefully and gently 'unwrapped' by you, the older 'teacher'. That kind of smacks of a creepy 'kind daddy' act, instead of going into this as two consenting adults and being upfront. If its clear that after meeting her, the dynamic and vibe is not like two consenting adults, then its wrong. I guess where we differ is that I feel I can judge that from the offset. It just happens automatically in fact, as if it wasnt like that, the attraction wouldnt be there anyway. To me, your original post didnt sound like anything dodgy, it sounded like you have genuine rapport and chemistry, and she seems grown up enough to have a relationship, which she is actively looking for.

Of course there is an age where its wrong. But I feel that the law at 18 covers that well enough. From my two experiences with 19 year olds, and my memory of 18 year olds from my youth, I can't agree the 'default' assumption is that 18 year olds dont know what they want and need to wrapped up in cotton wool, which suddenly changes at 20 or something.

Secondly, in terms of your abilty to hurt or damage her, I cant see any difference to a younger guy. Are you saying that its ok for a guy in his 20s to fuck and dump her? Do you think its more damaging if an older guy mistreats her than a younger guy? Girls her age are horny, want fun, excitement and sex. Perfectly natural, and IMHO (for another discussion) its perfectly natural she would want it with someone older. And if she not doing it with an older guy, she would be with someone her own age, but still running the exact same risks of getting hurt, mistreated or whatever. (Arguably more so, given the immaturity of younger guys)

Sure she can get hurt, and so can you. My opinion its a matter of decency and sensitivity how you treat people, not so much magic numbers. If she is looking for a relationship with an older guy (for money!) then she also has to bear some responsility. Yes even at 18. Personally, I think suggesting otherwise is patronising.

Having said all that I do not actively go around looking for 18 year olds. Personally if im on a dating app 21 is my lower filter usually. But if I met someone younger and the mutual attraction was there I wouldnt back away provided it was legal (which was my only concern in the original post).

As an American I often take advice from the rules of baseball: If there is grass on the infield then Playball!

Mod Note: The OP here is referring to anyone of the legal age of consent in the country of residence.

 

[tokyosteven77]

There is no definite good or bad in the court of public opinion. My experience (yours may be different) is that most people think that older men with 19 year old girls = What a creep! She's a child! He took advantage! 20 years old = Shes young but shes old enough to make her own decisions...oh well.

Well even better than that rule is the "half your age plus seven" rule, which is surprisingly spot on when it comes to judging cultural acceptance of an age gap.

But personally I dont give a shit . That happens when you get older.

Also while the rule is generally accurate for predicting what people would judge 'outwardly', you know that at least 50% of them (i.e. the guys) on the inside are just thinking 'lucky f*cker'.

As an American I often take advice from the rules of baseball: If there is grass on the infield then Playball!

As a non-American, I have absolutely no idea what that means

 

[Wwanderer]

well i never wondered about that obvious question, but what i wonder about is: what do people with that age gap talk about? the college life you forgot? or the work experience she never had?

Exakalakaly. What the hell would you talk about with your 19/20yr old SB?

People say I'm odd, and I don't doubt it, but fwiiw I tend to find conversations with and the companionship of people of different generations more interesting than those with/of my own (with some exceptions of course). This is true not just in terms of dating but in general. If, for example, I make friends with some guy I meet across a poker table or at work, it is more likely to be a 20-something or 30-something or whatever than a 50-something or 60-something. Nor does it only go for younger folks, one of my male friends with whom I most enjoy talking is almost 20 years older than me.

Why? Because for me learning something new or seeing things from a new perspective makes a conversation more interesting and valuable than just comparing notes with someone whose life experiences closely parallel my own. for example, the older friend mentioned in the previous paragraph had experiences in and of Japan rather similar to mine but about a generation earlier. He knew the Japan of the 1960s, 70s and 80s while I encountered the Japan of the 80s (a little bit), 90s, 2000s and in the current decade. Seeing old Japan through his stories is endlessly fascinating. And so is seeing Japan through the eyes of young women who only arrived within the last few years. They are not yet frozen into old ways of thinking and evaluating things and come up with the most original notions that would hardly ever occur to someone my own age.

Older folks often assume that they already know and understand pretty much everything a person decades younger than them does simply because they were once that age themselves and have already been through those phases of life. Imo this is *wildly* incorrect. The world is changing so fast now that the "reality" in which a 20-something or a teen lives and functions today is vastly different than the one you experienced if you are, say, 40-something or older. They know and, if you listen, will teach and show you the world from a whole new direction.

In short, if you don't think of a young woman mostly or only as a potential source of sexual pleasure, you stand a good chance of finding a source of many other enrichments of your life and understanding of the world.

Well, you asked. That's my best shot at an answer.

-Ww

 

[warubuta]

Hmm ok. So like your saying that if the guy was 34 then it's fine? No risk of 'damaging' the girl and no 'responsibilty'? But from 35 onwards, older guys run the risk of permanently corrupting young girls and have to treat them as fragile objects, bearing all the responsibilty?

First, I think you are undermining her sexuality and ability to make choices to the extent of being patronising. Like she is some precious flower who needs to be carefully and gently 'unwrapped' by you, the older 'teacher'. That kind of smacks of a creepy 'kind daddy' act, instead of going into this as two consenting adults and being upfront. If its clear that after meeting her, the dynamic and vibe is not like two consenting adults, then its wrong. I guess where we differ is that I feel I can judge that from the offset. It just happens automatically in fact, as if it wasnt like that, the attraction wouldnt be there anyway. To me, your original post didnt sound like anything dodgy, it sounded like you have genuine rapport and chemistry, and she seems grown up enough to have a relationship, which she is actively looking for.

Of course there is an age where its wrong. But I feel that the law at 18 covers that well enough. From my two experiences with 19 year olds, and my memory of 18 year olds from my youth, I can't agree the 'default' assumption is that 18 year olds dont know what they want and need to wrapped up in cotton wool, which suddenly changes at 20 or something.

Secondly, in terms of your abilty to hurt or damage her, I cant see any difference to a younger guy. Are you saying that its ok for a guy in his 20s to fuck and dump her? Do you think its more damaging if an older guy mistreats her than a younger guy? Girls her age are horny, want fun, excitement and sex. Perfectly natural, and IMHO (for another discussion) its perfectly natural she would want it with someone older. And if she not doing it with an older guy, she would be with someone her own age, but still running the exact same risks of getting hurt, mistreated or whatever. (Arguably more so, given the immaturity of younger guys)

Sure she can get hurt, and so can you. My opinion its a matter of decency and sensitivity how you treat people, not so much magic numbers. If she is looking for a relationship with an older guy (for money!) then she also has to bear some responsility. Yes even at 18. Personally, I think suggesting otherwise is patronising.

Having said all that I do not actively go around looking for 18 year olds. Personally if im on a dating app 21 is my lower filter usually. But if I met someone younger and the mutual attraction was there I wouldnt back away provided it was legal (which was my only concern in the original post).

As an American I often take advice from the rules of baseball: If there is grass the infield then Playball!

Well even better than that rule is the "half your age plus seven" rule, which is surprisingly spot on when it comes to judging cultural acceptance of an age gap.

But personally I dont give a shit . That happens when you get older.

Also while the rule is generally accurate for predicting what what people would judge 'outwardly', you know that at least 50% of them (i.e. the guys) on the inside are just thinking 'lucky f*cker'.

Yea what some people do in individual cases is ne


As a non-American, I have absolutely no idea what that means

People say I'm odd, and I don't doubt it, but fwiiw I tend to find conversations with and the companionship of people of different generations more interesting than those with/of my own (with some exceptions of course). This is true not just in terms of dating but in general. If, for example, I make friends with some guy I meet across a poker table or at work, it is more likely to be a 20-something or 30-something or whatever than a 50-something or 60-something. Nor does it only go for younger folks, one of my male friends with whom I most enjoy talking is almost 20 years older than me.

Why? Because for me learning something new or seeing things from a new perspective makes a conversation more interesting and valuable than just comparing notes with someone whose life experiences closely parallel my own. for example, he older friend mentioned in the previous paragraph had experiences in and of Japan rather similar to mine but about a generation earlier. He knew the Japan of the 1960s, 70s and 80s while I encountered the Japan of the 80s (a little bit), 90s, 2000s and in the current decade. Seeing old Japan through his stories is endlessly fascinating. And so is seeing Japan through the eyes of young women who only arrived within the last few years. They are not yet frozen into old ways of thinking and evaluating things and come up with the most original notions that would hardly ever occur to someone my own age.

Older folks often assume that they already know and understand pretty much everything a person decades younger than them does simply because they were once that age themselves and have already been through those phases of life. Imo this is *wildly* incorrect. The world is changing so fast now that the "reality" in which a 20-something or a teen lives and functions today is vastly different than the one you experienced if you are, say, 40-something or older. They know and, if you listen, will teach and show you the world from a whole new direction.

In short, if you don't think of a young woman mostly or only as a potential source of sexual pleasure, you stand a good chance of finding a source of many other enrichments of your life and understanding of the world.

Well, you asked. That's my best shot at an answer.

-Ww

Good points all but only as they apply to non-sex workers. I also have many close friends who are older and many more who are younger. But in my experience I haven't met any women of any age in the sex trade who are close friend material. All of the girls/women I have come across have been embittered losers or just not very bright. One or two were nice to be around, but I wouldn't call them friends. That is part of my problem with the whole SB thing. If I could get over the fakeness aspect that would be one step. But the brutal fact is that smart, progressive, creative, intelligent women don't, in my experience, get themselves into situations where they are selling their bodies for money. Julia Roberts and Pretty Woman aside. So I can't imagine why someone would want to pay to be pretend friends with sex workers. I am sure there are exceptions to the rule. I also think that many of these girls start out one way, have some bad luck, and end up selling their asses. I feel sorry for them, but to pretend befriend them is not a good idea. Instead I treat them with respect; I am friendly but not friends, certainly not trusting, and I pay them well.

 

[Wwanderer]

in my experience I haven't met any women of any age in the sex trade who are close friend material. All of the girls/women I have come across have been embittered losers or just not very bright

the brutal fact is that smart, progressive, creative, intelligent women don't, in my experience, get themselves into situations where they are selling their bodies for money.

My (rather extensive) experience is quite different. SWs are pretty much like women who are not SWs in terms of personality, motivations, intelligence, attitudes toward life etc. It is just a profession, one that attracts many sorts of women. The main difference between meeting SWs and meeting women in other contexts ime is that SWs are more likely to hide/veil their true personalities, feelings, opinions and so forth in order to please/entertain their customers. So you have earn their trust before you can actually meet the real person behind the SW persona in many cases.

-Ww

 

[warubuta]

My (rather extensive) experience is quite different. SWs are pretty much like women who are not SWs in terms of personality, motivations, intelligence, attitudes toward life etc. It is just a profession, one that attracts many sorts of women. The main difference between meeting SWs and meeting women in other contexts ime is that SWs are more likely to hide/veil their true personalities, feelings, opinions and so forth in order to please/entertain their customers. So you have earn their trust before you can actually meet the real person behind the SW persona in many cases.

-Ww

Just like Pretty Woman! You are a rare bird Ww. Good on ya.

 

[just4fun]

Doesnt matter what rules you might put on yourself, if she is 19 or under, and you are older than say 28, if you have any kind of sexual activity with her, I think J society at large will hang you up by your gaijin balls to swing in the wind. When she wigs out, gets pregnant or whatever and you are exposed and on trial in the court of public opinion, imagine how silly you will sound when you try to explain yourself this way. 'I only let her have 2 glasses of wine before I fucked her.' Or, 'When we got in the hotel, she made the first move.' In Japan I think the magic age is 20. 20 or above is fair game

The point I'm trying to make starts at about the 2:40 mark