Critique My First Pua

[Wwanderer]

Apparently my version of what women want is more accurate. I have applied it to women of all ages. Sex matters to women. If a man is her lover and she only wants conversation, she is too old for PUA and most men.

This makes almost no sense (did anyone say or even think that sex doesn't matter to women and when/why did age come into it????) and appears to be based on incorrect assumptions about me and my lifetime of experiences with women of all ages, but in any case, if you think your understanding of "success from the woman's perspective" is superior to mine, why in the world did you ask me the question in the first place:

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/critique-my-first-pua.11793/#post-73654

Up until that point we weren't discussing the woman's perspective at all, and I am still now sure why or how you think it is relevant...or even what you think it is.

Btw and as a tangent, how old a woman is "too old for PUA", in your opinion?

Anyway, since you have declined @Sinapse's very reasonable suggestion that you tell us anything about your experiences, it is hard to see why we should take your opinions on these matters seriously.

-Ww

 

[Wwanderer]

@Roman - the best advice, almost the only good and useful advice, you have received in this thread is in this post

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/critique-my-first-pua.11793/page-2#post-73706

by @NormalGuy imo.

A short form way to decide if your encounter with this woman was a success or failure is very simple indeed. Just ask yourself if you are glad it happened or if you would prefer having never seen or met her at all. If you are glad it happened then it was not a failure. Obvious, isn't it.



-Ww

 

[4vibes]

This makes almost no sense (did anyone say or even think that sex doesn't matter to women and when/why did age come into it????) and appears to be based on incorrect assumptions about me and my lifetime of experiences with women of all ages, but in any case, if you think your understanding of "success from the woman's perspective" is superior to mine, why in the world did you ask me the question in the first place:

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/critique-my-first-pua.11793/#post-73654

Up until that point we weren't discussing the woman's perspective at all, and I am still now sure why or how you think it is relevant...or even what you think it is.

Btw and as a tangent, how old a woman is "too old for PUA", in your opinion?

Anyway, since you have declined @Sinapse's very reasonable suggestion that you tell us anything about your experiences, it is hard to see why we should take your opinions on these matters seriously.

-Ww

You implied women wanted conversation more than sex. My contention is women engage men because of sex mainly. The age reference refers to a broad spectrum of women with different sexual needs.

I did not ask for your opinion. I ask you to see from a women's perspective. Her actions spoke of expection of sex. The tease and let down. The disappointment.

Why a women's perspective? You keep saying PUA don't care about a woman's want. On the contrary. All the self improvement we do for the women.

As for a woman being too old, each person has his idea. I'll just leave it at that. I will not judge any person's view of age.

Now I speak of my experience and you question it. Catch 22. I expected this that's why I tend to stay to well known theories and facts. I've dropped enough clues as to who I am.

 

[4vibes]

@Roman - the best advice, almost the only good and useful advice, you have received in this thread is in this post

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/critique-my-first-pua.11793/page-2#post-73706

by @NormalGuy imo.

A short form way to decide if your encounter with this woman was a success or failure is very simple indeed. Just ask yourself if you are glad it happened or if you would prefer having never seen or met her at all. If you are glad it happened then it was not a failure. Obvious, isn't it.



-Ww

From a guy who use $$$ to attract women?

 

[Wwanderer]

From a guy who use $$$ to attract women?

You, and some of the other local PUAs, seem to have the weird idea that if a man ever engages in p4p, that it is his one and only way to be with a woman and that nothing else has ever worked for him...totally and obviously wrong. And even the concept is wrong; p4p is not using money to attract women any more than money is used to attract, say, apartments, food, airlines, clothes, cars, equities...whatever. There is a difference between purchasing something and attracting it.

You might also have a look at this relevant post:

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/beginners-guide-to-hostess-bars.7197/page-3#post-73716

-Ww

 

[4vibes]

You, and some of the other local PUAs, seem to have the weird idea that if a man ever engages in p4p, that it is his one and only way to be with a woman and that nothing else has ever worked for him...totally and obviously wrong. And even the concept is wrong; p4p is not using money to attract women any more than money is used to attract, say, apartments, food, airlines, clothes, cars, equities...whatever. There is a difference between purchasing something and attracting it.

You might also have a look at this relevant post:

https://tokyoadultguide.com/threads/beginners-guide-to-hostess-bars.7197/page-3#post-73716

-Ww

If you'd answered 'privacy', I may have believed. PUA is about getting better than the average result from meeting women. Its not about a coin toss. You could've saved the $40k a yr you spent on P4P.

 

[Wwanderer]

You could've saved the $40k a yr you spent on P4P.

With the time and energy p4p saves me I make much more money (and have much more nonsexual fun) than what it costs me, overall. P4p is a wonderful deal financially and in other ways.

However, that's all irrelevant. The role of women in my life is not all, nor even mostly, about sex, money or time. Women are to me about experiences, emotions, connections and meaning, and the endlessly different ways of meeting and interacting with women produce a huge variation in those experiences, connections, emotions and meanings.

To be very blunt, your notion of having women in your life appears to be extremely shallow and immature. You are still playing in the shallow end of the pool, and even then playing games someone else invented, and seem determined to never get to the deep water. Of course, I don't know you and could easily be wrong, especially since you say so little about yourself beyond vague claims, but in any case, that is how you come across to me and, tbh, to many of us.

-Ww

 

[4vibes]

With the time and energy p4p saves me I make much more money (and have much more nonsexual fun) than what it costs me, overall. P4p is a wonderful deal financially and in other ways.

However, that's all irrelevant. The role of women in my life is not all, nor even mostly, about sex, money or time. Women are to me about experiences, emotions, connections and meaning, and the endlessly different ways of meeting and interacting with women produce a huge variation in those experiences, connections, emotions and meanings.

To be very blunt, your notion of having women in your life appears to be extremely shallow and immature. You are still playing in the shallow end of the pool, and even then playing games someone else invented, and seem determined to never get to the deep water. Of course, I don't know you and could easily be wrong, especially since you say so little about yourself beyond vague claims, but in any case, that is how you come across to me and, tbh, to many of us.

-Ww

I find the pursuit as much fun as the women. I still maintain connection to many of my women. I like variety in my partners. Plus, I avoid the many agendas women want to pursue. I love women just not their agendas.

 

[Wwanderer]

I find the pursuit as much fun as the women. I still maintain connection to many of my women. I like variety in my partners. Plus, I avoid the many agendas women want to pursue. I love women just not their agendas.

This is actually the most interesting post you've made to date in any thread imo (and as best I recall). Some comments, as opposed to the usual criticism:

- I enjoy "the pursuit" too. In fact it is one thing I especially enjoy about sugar dating, which is a sort of hybrid between conventional p4p and conventional dating. SBs reject potential SDs all the time. Most SBs reject the large majority of SDs who approach them. Personally I am turned down by at least half of the SBs I meet. Thus, there is a real "pursuit" aspect involved. If you have a long term sugar arrangement with a woman, you can be confident that she prefers you to many other SDs she could be seeing instead.

- While I enjoy the pursuit, I don't have to always have it in every case. I enjoy fishing (which I used to do quite a bit) and eating fresh fish that you just caught, cleaned and cooked yourself is a special treat. But that does not prevent me from enjoying a delicious seafood dinner prepared by some restaurant chef using fish caught by some unknown people etc. Enjoying conventional relationships does not mean that you cannot enjoy p4p, nor vice versa.

- I also like ("like" is far too weak a verb in this case) variety in my partners, in fact you could say I am all about *enormous* variety, far more than most men as far as I can judge. Meeting women in a variety of ways is (very obviously) one of the main ways of having a variety of types of partners.

- To this point we are in many ways not so different, but we are worlds apart on the "agendas" factor you dislike. The thing about women I love the most is their minds and personalities and values; my favorite part of a woman's body lies insider her skull and between her ears. Their "agendas" are an integral part of their minds, personalities and values. Imo, if you avoid their agendas, you are avoiding the truly transformative aspect of relationships...the deep water end of the pool basically, where the real challenges and rewards lie imo.

-Ww

 

[4vibes]

This is actually the most interesting post you've made to date in any thread imo (and as best I recall). Some comments, as opposed to the usual criticism:

- I enjoy "the pursuit" too. In fact it is one thing I especially enjoy about sugar dating, which is a sort of hybrid between conventional p4p and conventional dating. SBs reject potential SDs all the time. Most SBs reject the large majority of SDs who approach them. Personally I am turned down by at least half of the SBs I meet. Thus, there is a real "pursuit" aspect involved. If you have a long term sugar arrangement with a woman, you can be pretty confident that she prefers you to many other SDs she could be seeing instead.

- While I enjoy the pursuit, I don't have to always have it in every case. I enjoy fishing (which I used to do quite a bit) and eating fresh fish that you just caught, cleaned and cooked yourself is a special treat. But that does not prevent me from enjoying a delicious seafood dinner prepared by some restaurant chef using fish caught by some unknown people etc. Enjoying conventional relationships does not mean that you cannot enjoy p4p, nor vice versa.

- I also like ("like" is far too weak a verb in this case) variety in my partners, in fact you could say I am all about *enormous* variety, far more than most men as far as I can judge. Meeting women in a variety of ways is (very obviously) one of the main ways of having a variety of types of partners.

- To this point we are in many ways not so different, but we are worlds apart on the "agendas" factor you dislike. The thing about women I love the most is their minds and personalities and values; my favorite part of a woman's body lies insider her skull and between her ears. Their "agendas" are an integral part of their minds, personalities and values. Imo, if you avoid their agendas, you are avoiding the truly transformative aspect of relationships...the deep water end of the pool basically, where the real challenges and rewards lie imo.

-Ww

Don't get me wrong about what make women magical. Its that they tend to want me in a cage and train me. That is where I draw the line.

Some of the methods PUA use can help in your pursuit of SB. In your situation, power/$$$ does not work. You have to establish your value in relationship to hers. You have to come from the frame you are seeking SB but have high standard. Let her know you are qualifying other girls too. If you don't value yourself, why should she value you. Let her slowly win you over. Once that is done you can deal with the rest. If she did earn it then she does not deserve you. If she did not play, your value was not high enough. Get your value up.

 

[Wwanderer]

Don't get me wrong about what make women magical. Its that they tend to want me in a cage and train me. That is where I draw the line.

I hear you, but have you considered that any particular way of meeting/finding women (or people in general) has a bias, favors some types of women/people over others? Perhaps if you used another (non-PUA) approach you would find yourself with a very different sort of partners with a very different set of "agendas". You'll never know until you try (for 10,000 hours!!?? ).

For example, the sugar bowl is full of people who say they want real and significant but NSA and unconventional relationships; moreover, quite a few of them actually mean and live it. In my experience, the "cage and train" agenda is VERY much rarer in sugar dating situations than in conventional ones.

-Ww

 

[4vibes]

I hear you, but have you considered that any particular way of meeting/finding women (or people in general) has a bias, favors some types of women/people over others? Perhaps if you used another (non-PUA) approach you would find yourself with a very different sort of partners with a very different set of "agendas". You'll never know until you try (for 10,000 hours!!?? ).

For example, the sugar bowl is full of people who say they want real and significant but NSA and unconventional relationships; moreover, quite a few of them actually mean and live it. In my experience, the "cage and train" agenda is VERY much rarer in sugar dating situations than in conventional ones.

-Ww

Non-PUA method only means less options. And those fish are the ones I'm not interested in. All women want a kept man if they can. Its in their DNA to conquer the beast.

 

[Wwanderer]

All women want a kept man if they can. Its in their DNA to conquer the beast.

Just plain wrong in my experience; I have met, loved and know well many wonderful women who do not want a "kept man". Of course, most of them might not respond to PUA approaches, so you'll never meet such women.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

I don't actually think it is "in their DNA", but even if it were, that wouldn't mean much. Much modern human behavior is at odds with our genetic natures. It is what sets humans apart from animals; we are the only species on the planet which spontaneously (i.e., without training from other species) overrides our own instincts with rational and/or learned behavior. Doing so is what created civilization.

-Ww

 

[4vibes]

Just plain wrong in my experience; I have met, loved and know well many wonderful women who do not want a "kept man". Of course, most of them might not respond to PUA approaches, so you'll never meet such women.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

I don't actually think it is "in their DNA", but even if it were, that wouldn't mean much. Much modern human behavior is at odds with our genetic natures. It is what sets humans apart from animals; we are the only species on the planet which spontaneously (i.e., without training from other species) overrides our own instincts with rational and/or learned behavior. Doing so is what created civilization.

-Ww

PUA is build on the women's instinct for survival. I don't know what type of women you are talking about. I bet if I have not, a PUA have met one of your woman and she fell for the PUA.

The size of the women beauty industry argue against your argument for the desire to control men. Its critical to their survival. Those who can't control a man go extinct. I don't know what women bs you are promoting.

For someone who is suppose to be educated, it seem you are not familiar with: The Red Queen: the Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt Ridley.

 

[Wwanderer]

PUA is build on the women's instinct for survival. I don't know what type of women you are talking about. I bet if I have not, a PUA have met one of your woman and she fell for the PUA.

The size of the women beauty industry argue against your argument for the desire to control men. Its critical to their survival. Those who can't control a man go extinct. I don't know what women bs you are promoting.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

That says it all.

People, including women, are incredibly diverse and varied. And if you want to spout pseudo-Darwinian science to support your social life, consider that one of the greatest strengths a species can have for survival is genetic diversity. It is only diversity that allows evolutionary adaptation; there is no survival of the fittest if everyone's genes are the same.

And in the coming age, it is more likely that men will go extinct than women. VERY soon women will no longer need men to reproduce...and they live longer than men, survive better in harsh conditions etc. Think about that for a while.

But again, all of this is irrelevant silliness, half-understood semi-science terminology thrown around in support of dinosaur-primitive social systems that are already rapidly disappearing from the planet.

All that said, I am indeed describing unusual and exceptional women, not typical ones. But if you want to live an extraordinarily successful and interesting life, don't concentrate on dealing with typical cases (of women or anything else); rather concentrate on finding the extraordinary cases and situations and regarding them as the great opportunities they are.

-Ww

 

[4vibes]

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

That says it all.

People, including women, are incredibly diverse and varied. And if you want to spout pseudo-Darwinian science to support your social life, consider that one of the greatest strengths a species can have for survival is genetic diversity. It is only diversity that allows evolutionary adaptation; there is no survival of the fittest if everyone's genes are the same.

And in the coming age, it is more likely that men will go extinct than women. VERY soon women will no longer need men to reproduce...and they live longer than men, survive better in harsh conditions etc. Think about that for a while.

But again, all of this is irrelevant silliness, half-understood semi-science terminology thrown around in support of dinosaur-primitive social systems that are already rapidly disappearing from the planet.

All that said, I am indeed describing unusual and exceptional women, not typical ones. But if you want to live an extraordinarily successful and interesting life, don't concentrate on dealing with typical cases (of women or anything else); rather concentrate on finding the extraordinary cases and situations and regarding them as the great opportunities they are.

-Ww

One's extraordinary woman is another's plain Jane.

Look up: The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt Ridley. Its just a way to control you.

Have not read it for a long time. Read ch7: Monogamy and the Nature of Women. It will explain alot about why women do what they do. Do not read it if you want to be happily ignorant. Once you eat the Apple, you will hate me.

 

[honra123]

4vibes, excuse me for chiming in, but out of all the discussion led so far I have the feeling that you attach yourself too much to theories, guides and approaches, instead of actually realizing that us, human beings, are a multifaceted bunch - as Wwanderer kindly noted.

I would look towards some additional literature on bringing forth arguments and defending your position with logical statements in addition to the PUA arsenal you've got going for you.

To OP:
As others mentioned, you were a bit too pushy and switched her to orange light when she initially greenlighted you. That's a natural mistake and we've all done them - heck, I might have wised up over the ages, but I'll still probably fail at some contextual situation. Human relations are like languages - you always need to improve and you always learn new things.

In this case, you're a winner - you understood what NOT to do next time in a similar situation. Plus, you had a great time, right?

Just remember that not all things should be said that directly - women can pick up the nuance just fine. Also, in some situations, fewer words equal more, especially if you've taken action. The catch is, this 'action' has to match the current situation's atmosphere. Reading the atmosphere (ah, the favorite KY word of the Japanese) will come with experience, don't worry.

 

[Sinapse]

Of course, most of them might not respond to PUA approaches, so you'll never meet such women

This theory is quaint but unfounded - almost silly! I think you'd simply *like* to believe there are such women, when in reality an approach is an approach, and if done by the right guy at the right time it will be successful, PUA or not. While nothing is ever certain 100%, I'm pretty sure that any girl in the p4p or sugar bowl also has or has had regular relationships, with guys she meets organically. In other words, women who accept payment for sex is a subset, not a discrete group from women who develop organic relationships.

 

[4vibes]

4vibes, excuse me for chiming in, but out of all the discussion led so far I have the feeling that you attach yourself too much to theories, guides and approaches, instead of actually realizing that us, human beings, are a multifaceted bunch - as Wwanderer kindly noted.

I would look towards some additional literature on bringing forth arguments and defending your position with logical statements in addition to the PUA arsenal you've got going for you.

To OP:
As others mentioned, you were a bit too pushy and switched her to orange light when she initially greenlighted you. That's a natural mistake and we've all done them - heck, I might have wised up over the ages, but I'll still probably fail at some contextual situation. Human relations are like languages - you always need to improve and you always learn new things.

In this case, you're a winner - you understood what NOT to do next time in a similar situation. Plus, you had a great time, right?

Just remember that not all things should be said that directly - women can pick up the nuance just fine. Also, in some situations, fewer words equal more, especially if you've taken action. The catch is, this 'action' has to match the current situation's atmosphere. Reading the atmosphere (ah, the favorite KY word of the Japanese) will come with experience, don't worry.

PUA is a fairly new in term of literature. I want to introduce more scientific method to give it more credibility. People think it is like witch craft right now. -Ww called it pseudo science. Its not. Its base on research as the book shows.

There will be outliers, as the law of large numbers shows. The mean/theory gives us a working model to guide us. In PUA, calibration is the difference between a newbie and PUA. Its actually the fun part of the game.

 

[Roman]

4vibes, excuse me for chiming in, but out of all the discussion led so far I have the feeling that you attach yourself too much to theories, guides and approaches, instead of actually realizing that us, human beings, are a multifaceted bunch - as Wwanderer kindly noted.

I would look towards some additional literature on bringing forth arguments and defending your position with logical statements in addition to the PUA arsenal you've got going for you.

To OP:
As others mentioned, you were a bit too pushy and switched her to orange light when she initially greenlighted you. That's a natural mistake and we've all done them - heck, I might have wised up over the ages, but I'll still probably fail at some contextual situation. Human relations are like languages - you always need to improve and you always learn new things.

In this case, you're a winner - you understood what NOT to do next time in a similar situation. Plus, you had a great time, right?

Just remember that not all things should be said that directly - women can pick up the nuance just fine. Also, in some situations, fewer words equal more, especially if you've taken action. The catch is, this 'action' has to match the current situation's atmosphere. Reading the atmosphere (ah, the favorite KY word of the Japanese) will come with experience, don't worry.

Yes. One of the things I'm going to change first is to ease the compliments. I'd much rather use it sparingly as I saw how I over used it. I guess I will find out for myself through trail and error. I will cunningly work my way with converstaion. I'm really looking foward to using shock and awe after comfort has been met. I'm really curious as to how I will work my way with words.

 

[Wwanderer]

This theory is quaint but unfounded - almost silly! I think you'd simply *like* to believe there are such women, when in reality an approach is an approach, and if done by the right guy at the right time it will be successful, PUA or not. While nothing is ever certain 100%, I'm pretty sure that any girl in the p4p or sugar bowl also has or has had regular relationships, with guys she meets organically. In other words, women who accept payment for sex is a subset, not a discrete group from women who develop organic relationships.

Speaking of silly strawmen! The post of mine you mention said not a single word about p4p nor did I have it in mind at all. Let me again mention (for the 1000th time perhaps) that the very large majority of couples in the world did not meet by either PUA techniques or, even less, via any sort of p4p. Why do so many PUAs seem to believe that those are the only two methods of men and women meeting when in fact it most commonly happens in ways that were routine and ordinary 50 years ago, or 500 for that matter?

(Before you start, I am aware that you sometimes define PUA/pick-up as any way of men meeting women that isn't p4p and at other times exclude meeting women by techniques of which you disapprove, e.g., negging, and at still other times as including only particular techniques that you believe to be effective and proper...whichever is more convenient for the argument at hand.)

Anyway, I do agree with you that pretty much every sex worker could be picked up by "the right guy at the right time", but of course you have to keep in mind that you or @4vibes or any given man might well not be "the right guy".

Anyway, I stand by my statement that every way of men and women meeting has biases, often very strong ones, and that every person, man or woman, is attracted by and is attractive to only certain types of people. None of us has personal access to an unbiased sample, and it is widely recognized that even rigorous "scientifuc" studies of human behavior never access a fully representative sample.

This is why absolute statements such as @4vibes claim that "all women want a kept man" are bs and basically simple minded propaganda. I can assure you that I have been in important relationnships in my life with women who are nothing like that...and you are VERY unlikely to meet some of them via any approach normally advocated by self-described PUA.

-Ww

 

[Sinapse]

I'm curious @Wwanderer on what basis you make this claim:

Just plain wrong in my experience; I have met, loved and know well many wonderful women who do not want a "kept man". Of course, most of them might not respond to PUA approaches, so you'll never meet such women.

I agree very much with the fact that some women don't want a kept man. But the second statement seems like a massive leap of faith. I had assumed you meant p4p women in this case but I suppose you meant women met in social ways? This, I'm afraid, is also in the realm of things which PUA improves. At its best, in fact, PUA skills are completely imperceptible as such and thus therefore the only way to avoid being picked up by a PUA is to avoid men altogether. Women could, on the other hand, avoid cold approach. But think about it for a minute. Is she going to ignore the guy behind her in line at the bakery making a comment about a pastry? What about the guy who asks what time the bus arrives? Or the guy sitting next to her at the concert? Avoiding literally all contact with men is the only way to ensure you aren't picked up by a PUA. Something which I think makes you somewhat paranoid and borderline socially inept.

 

[4vibes]

Speaking of silly strawmen! The post of mine you mention said not a single word about p4p nor did I have it in mind at all. Let me again mention (for the 1000th time perhaps) that the very large majority of couples in the world did not meet by either PUA techniques or, even less, via any sort of p4p. Why do so many PUAs seem to believe that those are the only two methods of men and women meeting when in fact it most commonly happens in ways that were routine and ordinary 50 years ago, or 500 for that matter?

(Before you start, I am aware that you sometimes define PUA/pick-up as any way of men meeting women that isn't p4p and at other times exclude meeting women by techniques of which you disapprove, e.g., negging, and at still other times as including only particular techniques that you believe to be effective and proper...whichever is more convenient for the argument at hand.)

Anyway, I do agree with you that pretty much every sex worker could be picked up by "the right guy at the right time", but of course you have to keep in mind that you or @4vibes or any given man might well not be "the right guy".

Anyway, I stand by my statement that every way of men and women meeting has biases, often very strong ones, and that every person, man or woman, is attracted by and is attractive to only certain types of people. None of us has personal access to an unbiased sample, and it is widely recognized that even rigorous "scientifuc" studies of human behavior never access a fully representative sample.

This is why absolute statements such as @4vibes claim that "all women want a kept man" are bs and basically simple minded propaganda. I can assure you that I have been in important relationnships in my life with women who are nothing like that...and you are VERY unlikely to meet some of them via any approach normally advocated by self-described PUA.

-Ww

If you bother to read the book, kept man is a provider. In today's world, a partner that will provide for her and her offsprings since science can solve with insemination. Its nature. Those who don't go extinct.

 

[4vibes]

Yes. One of the things I'm going to change first is to ease the compliments. I'd much rather use it sparingly as I saw how I over used it. I guess I will find out for myself through trail and error. I will cunningly work my way with converstaion. I'm really looking foward to using shock and awe after comfort has been met. I'm really curious as to how I will work my way with words.

Instead of anecdotal evidence from me on shock and awe, let me direct you to Dr. Marta Meana from UNLV who has done research on women sexuality. She said arousal for women is a narcissistic need to be the object of eroctic admiration and sexual need. Shock and Awe fulfill that need.

 

[Wwanderer]

If you bother to read the book, kept man is a provider. In today's world, a partner that will provide for her and her offsprings since science can solve with insemination. Its nature. Those who don't go extinct.

I know and have been with women who are worth millions of dollars who made it all themselves, never once had a man as her provider. One of them has 100-200 people, mostly men, who work for her, and all of them probably make more than you will ever in your life. I know beautiful young women whose father is a billionaire and who have never had and never will have a financial need for a mate who provides for them. Indeed, their problem is avoiding men who are only interested in them for their money. Lots of women have high paying jobs these days. Etc.

More over generalized BS.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

-Ww