Dipping My Toe In The Sugar Lake - And Striking Out

[Kegger]

I've been wading in the sugar lake since last Oct and have not had a lot of success on SA.
Here's my track record to date.

1. Had arranged to meet up with a young woman twice. First time she cancelled on the day of the meeting, 2nd time she said she'd been out with friends to 5 AM and wanted to change our lunch date to an evening one. So I bailed on her as I can't see her having any respect for time, or me.
Is this common with 20ish SB?

2. Met 3 times. First time was just for dinner and seemed nice. So agreed on terms (per date fee) and met her 2 other times. I enjoyed the 2nd date and was looking forward to the 3rd. But on the third date all she would talk about was how hard up she was and the date was all about money. After that she kept texting me about money and in the end I just gave up and broke it off.
Question here is do SB often trey to renegotiate the deal?

3. Total disaster. Met twice and then she started to scam me. Claimed her husband found out and had divorced her, and he was going to sue me for damages if I didn't pay up within 24 hours.
Scary shit I can tell you.

Also had a couple of first meets that I decided not to pursue.

Trying to figure out if I should be trying for the 30-40 year olds with whom I have more in common or just go young and hot.

I'm looking for someone to have meals with, and also do a bit of traveling with.

Any advice is welcome (esp from the SB community)

 

[Wwanderer]

I've been wading in the sugar lake since last Oct and have not had a lot of success on SA.
Here's my track record to date.

1. Had arranged to meet up with a young woman twice. First time she cancelled on the day of the meeting, 2nd time she said she'd been out with friends to 5 AM and wanted to change our lunch date to an evening one. So I bailed on her as I can't see her having any respect for time, or me.
Is this common with 20ish SB?

Well, it isn't rare among the 20-somethings who are living the wild life in Tokyo in general, SB or not. Of course SBs are more likely to party to excess than to be overly organized and studious. Anyway, definitely not unusual.

2. Met 3 times. First time was just for dinner and seemed nice. So agreed on terms (per date fee) and met her 2 other times. I enjoyed the 2nd date and was looking forward to the 3rd. But on the third date all she would talk about was how hard up she was and the date was all about money. After that she kept texting me about money and in the end I just gave up and broke it off.
Question here is do SB often trey to renegotiate the deal?

Similar things have happened to me but not very frequently. With some experience (and just with some careful thought) you can minimize the chance of this sort of outcome by filtering your potential sugar babies in various ways...all the way from reading their profiles up through the conversation when you meet them. Basically if they seem overly focused on money or let you know of some dire need, there is a better chance that they will want to re-negotiate the financial arrangement. Also and obviously, if you negotiate too hard and persuade them to settle for a figure well below what they wanted initially, it increases the chances that they will become unsatisfied with the arrangement. Ideally both people should feel that the other is being generous.

3. Total disaster. Met twice and then she started to scam me. Claimed her husband found out and had divorced her, and he was going to sue me for damages if I didn't pay up within 24 hours.
Scary shit I can tell you.

I have definitely run into obvious scammers, though nothing quite that bad. You want to learn to recognize them as early as possible in the screening process, if possible just by reading their profiles. Scammers often seem "too good to be true" at first.

Also had a couple of first meets that I decided not to pursue.

Perfectly normal in my experience...as are SBs who decide they aren't interested in an arrangement with me after a first meeting or a bit of correspondence.

Trying to figure out if I should be trying for the 30-40 year olds with whom I have more in common or just go young and hot.

If it were me, I'd try both.

I'm looking for someone to have meals with, and also do a bit of traveling with.

It definitely sounds like you want a sugar baby. It is a weird sort of dating and a weird sort of p4p, so it will probably take you some time to get the hang of it, but unless there is major way in which you don't make a good SD, you should definitely be able to find what you seek in the sugar bowl with a bit of patience and persistence.

Any advice is welcome (esp from the SB community)

There is A LOT more to success in the sugar bowl than in conventional forms of p4p. I could say more if I knew more about how you are approaching it - whether you are contacting the women you meet or meeting ones who contact you, what your profile says, what you look for in the profiles of the SBs, how much and what kind of pre-meeting correspondence you typically do etc.

-Ww

 

[User#8628]

It depends on the girl and you probably have to meet a few before getting a good match.

Personally i am not a party person at all. Out until 5.00 sounds like a nightmare to me, lol. You're more likely to find me reading a book in bed until 5.00.
The few places where i like to go out close early anyway, and/or they are close to me house so i can leave when it pleases me.
I also wouldn't try to force someone to give more if we already had a fair arrangement. I usually don't ask for extras.
As for that scammer, you met her in japan, not america, right? I would just laugh at it. Its super abstract to sue someone for that.

I think you just got unlucky and should try some more. Don't look at age, choose the woman you are most interested it.

And i agree with ww, in the sugar arrangement both people should profit from it and give generously.
If a guy spends enough to me to put me as ease, i give him as much time and affection and fun experience as i can during our appointments.

 

[Ches]

Looks like I'm not the only one who failed many times in sugar bowl, misery loves company haha jk

Anyway, be patient, based on my experience, you will find someone worth it in the end, I almost gave up sugar dating all together before, but just when I was about to give up, found someone great.

 

[DJV]

Looks like I'm not the only one who failed many times in sugar bowl, misery loves company haha jk

Anyway, be patient, base on my experience, you will find someone worth it in the end, I almost gave up sugar dating all together before, but just when I was about to give up, found someone great.

...does he happen to be on this board ?

 

[Ches]

...does he happen to be on this board ?

Gotta acknowledge the beauty of TAG then, Yes

 

[User#16452]

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[FastMike]

I've been using Seeking Arrangement for about 2 years now. When I read about your girl 1 and girl 2, my first thought is are they Filipino? I've had similar experiences with Filipinos from 19-24 years old. I stay away now. I haven't had that issue with older Filipinos or young women of other nationalities.
User#16452 is right on the money about the coffee date. I've weeded out many girls who are purely money focused this way. Some flat out refuse to meet unless you pay them and others meet, then whine for some cash.
I have had some great experiences - two have become friends that I see just for fun. I don't pay them but I also don't sleep with them. I just enjoy their company. And I have had several girls that I met for sex. I just go for one at a time; otherwise it's hard to meet up often enough for most girls to be interested in. I never do the monthly allowance; I pay after each time. If you don't see them enough, the girl will dump you. and you can dump then when you get bored and move on to the next. I think the prices I have paid have always been fair. I compare their age and looks with what that would cost from an agency, then add a little more for the bump that you see them outside of the time you spend in the sack.
I've never met a girl like your girl 3. I wouldn't panic though. I doubt a judge would see you as someone breaking up the home given that she is on Seeking Arrangement and has undoubtedly sent you texts and emails making it clear that you are paying her for sex.

 

[User#16452]

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[MB68]

hey @FastMike, those 19-24 year olds you talk about... if they're in the 19-21 BMI range, have fresh breath, smell good with smooth skin (i don't care whether they're dark-skinned or light-skinned)... hook them up with me, hehehe... they're gonna get lucky

 

[Kegger]

@User#16452 thanks for the advice. Great insight.
Thanks also to others.
Will refine what I'm doing.

 

[Ches]

I've been using Seeking Arrangement for about 2 years now. When I read about your girl 1 and girl 2, my first thought is are they Filipino? I've had similar experiences with Filipinos from 19-24 years old. I stay away now. I haven't had that issue with older Filipinos or young women of other nationalities.

(Repost)
I am mixed of four nations, and I do have a quarter of filipina blood. I did hear about filipina women scheming and it is true, however, just like in every other nations, there are good and bad people, I also heard about good filipina people in japan. Filipinas could be prone to scheming yes, coz they usually work in kyaba and some make up stories to con men into giving them money, since during the japanese bubble period, japan imported lots of filipina hostesses, but like I said there are good filipinas and bad filipinas, just like every other nationalities.

With that said, I was hoping we would not generalize them. I am not even filipina by citizenship but I could take an offense to it. Afterall, I still have some blood and a culture. Let us not make SD or p4p a ground for racism.

 

[scorpioni6ths]

(Repost)
I am mixed of four nations, and I do have a quarter of filipina blood. I did hear about filipina women scheming and it is true, however, just like in every other nations, there are good and bad people, I also heard about good filipina people in japan. Filipinas could be prone to scheming yes, coz they usually work in kyaba and some make up stories to con men into giving them money, since during the japanese bubble period, japan imported lots of filipina hostesses, but like I said there are good filipinas and bad filipinas, just like every other nationalities.

With that said, I was hoping we would not generalize them. I am not even filipina by citizenship but I could take an offense to it. Afterall, I still have some blood and a culture. Let us not make SD or p4p a ground for racism.

Indeed behaviour like this should never be generalised and taken as the norm.

Do not give up on a "dalagang Filipina", there are good ones out there. Albeit they'll be the more traditional ones (and probably not on SA or dating sites). For SA, one has to learn to filter out the bad ones.

 

[Sudsy]

So, she joined a dating website, cheated on her husband and then he divorced her. Why is this your problem?

Under Japanese law, the illicit partner of an unfaithful spouse bears equal culpability, and can be sued, with the courts typically awarding three million yen in damages. This happened to a female friend of mine who was having an affair with her boss - the wife found out, and my friend found herself unemployed and owing three million yen.

It's actually a relatively common scam for a "married" woman to sleep with a guy, then hit him up afterwards saying her "husband" - usually a low level yakuza - has found out and will sue for the full amount unless the victim makes a fast settlement for a smaller amount, usually they try for a million yen or so.

 

[Solong]

I've been wading in the sugar lake since last Oct and have not had a lot of success on SA.

1. Had arranged to meet up with a young woman twice. First time she cancelled on the day of the meeting, 2nd time she said she'd been out with friends to 5 AM and wanted to change our lunch date to an evening one. So I bailed on her as I can't see her having any respect for time, or me.
Is this common with 20ish SB?

I believe the habit of last minute canceling and being flaky is a really horrible game played by too many Japanese. From years of observation, I believe this is much more prevalent in Japan than in other countries. I have lived a bit and visited Korea and Taiwan, and this flake game isn't played to the ridiculous levels that it is in Japan.

This is done not just in the SB context, but in normal dating. Not just to foreigners, but this asinine game is played on other Japanese. Not just Japanese women doing to men (foreign or Japanese), but Japanese men play this game too (on foreign or Japanese women).

Not only being flaky about showing up on dates, but also sudden disappearing acts. Before or AFTER meeting, suddenly and completely stopping all communication.

It appears to be a combination of factors: anti-social tendencies, paranoia, insecurities, pranks, incomptently juggling multiple people at the same time, etc...

The psychological issues, are partially known in Japanese culture. It's called shinkeishitsu and/or taijin kyofusho. These are abnormal fears of interpersonal relationships, because of fear of failure or embarrassment. It doesn't have to be extreme psychological disorders that impairs functioning in society and working, but enough to make new relationships extremely difficult.

In addition, the flakiness can be part of committing pranks on people outside their group or attention-whoring.

Example #1

Japanese woman comes from Osaka, and now lives and works in Tokyo. She meets up with some women in Tokyo, and they invite her to a party at a club. Except, they don't show up and there is no party, and then make excuses afterwards (while laughing about it). Asshole-ish prank.

Note- And true story, that's happened to a few Japanese women that I know.

Example #2

Japanese playgirl has 5 different guys she is communicating with in e-mail or phone messages. Soaking up all the attention. Makes date with X guy on Tuesday. But guy Y, who she likes better, asks to meet on Tuesday too. So, she cancels on guy X at the last minute. Can also be she's confused about which to choose, X or Y, so screws up the scheduling of both. This is a playgirl that is poor at arranging her schedule properly and is inconsiderate about causing perpetual inconvenience to others.

Example #3

Japanese woman feels highly insecure about her appearance or body, or very paranoid about sex or meeting a new guy. On the day she is suppose to meet, has an "anxiety/panic attack", so chickens out and cancels at the last minute. Clearly upsetting the guy, but she is too inconsiderate or too self absorbed, so rationalizes it.

What Can Be Done About Flaky Japanese Women?

There is not much you can do about this, other than attempt a plan b. That is stack/arrange 2 dates on the same day or have a plan b date ready.

Try to send a confirmation e-mail/message the late night before or early morning of the date where you change something. Change the time a small bit (like 15 minutes), location or meeting place a little bit (like north exit instead of south), etc... Ask for confirmation at X time.

Flaky people will sometimes expose themselves, by not replying or acknowledging the new e-mail/message. So then arrange the plan b date instead.

Another way, which I do on weekends, is meet one lady early and the other late. 4 to 6 hours apart. So if one cancels, at least you will see the other. Unlikely both will cancel on the same day.

 

[Kegger]

Under Japanese law, the illicit partner of an unfaithful spouse bears equal culpability, and can be sued, with the courts typically awarding three million yen in damages. This happened to a female friend of mine who was having an affair with her boss - the wife found out, and my friend found herself unemployed and owing three million yen.

It's actually a relatively common scam for a "married" woman to sleep with a guy, then hit him up afterwards saying her "husband" - usually a low level yakuza - has found out and will sue for the full amount unless the victim makes a fast settlement for a smaller amount, usually they try for a million yen or so.

As I learned...
After the initial shock, I just sent a message saying that on receiving legal advice, I had to cease all communication, which I did. Got a torrent of messages for about 2 days then everything stopped.

Main lesson learned was not to give out our personal info too soon.

 

[Curacao]

Under Japanese law, the illicit partner of an unfaithful spouse bears equal culpability, and can be sued, with the courts typically awarding three million yen.

Didn't someone mention in another thread this is only if you are aware that the other party is married?

 

[Sudsy]

Didn't someone mention in another thread this is only if you are aware that the other party is married?

IANAL, but that is not my understanding. There is, however, legal precedent that sex workers are exempt from being the target of these sorts of lawsuits.

 

[Wwanderer]

There is not much you can do about this, other than attempt a plan b. That is stack/arrange 2 dates on the same day or have a plan b date ready.

But, but... Doesn't this system guarantee that you are going to have to cancel on one of the ladies on short notice yourself, thus committing the same offense ("horrible game") against which you are trying to defend yourself? Or am I misunderstanding something?

-Ww

 

[Solong]

But, but... Doesn't this system guarantee that you are going to have to cancel on one of the ladies on short notice yourself, thus committing the same offense ("horrible game") against which you are trying to defend yourself? Or am I misunderstanding something?

-Ww

I think you are misunderstanding, perhaps purposely so, how it works. So will explain further. This methodology was also posted in Nampa/Pua, referred to Date Stacking. The purpose is protection against flakes, pranks, and no-shows.

1) Date on different days

This is quite easy to do. Arrange dates on different days, and there is no/less conflict. If there is, it's often the woman/women involved changed days on you. Even if so, try to re-arrange the schedule in advance and accordingly.

However, the problem here is that flakes and pranks can kill your free time or days off. Like make a date on Wednesday, then never show up. Thus, stacking some dates on the same day might be preferred. Usually online or 1st time dates. You would NOT date stack with a woman you had sex with already, as she's already demonstrated strong interest in you.

2) Dates On The Same Day

If you setup 2 dates, you can time them sufficiently apart, where you can meet both ladies. Optimal, is at least 4 to 6 hours apart. Giving sufficient time for each date to progress to a significant conclusion. However, this is more possible on days off or the weekend, very difficult on weekdays or work days.

I did such this past Saturday. Met one at 2pm and the other at 7:30pm. I had sex with both women.

By the way, some women do such too (date stacking), but many guys have no clue about what's going on. I originally got the method from a woman, but the problem is various women don't arrange it well.

Women that meet you early, tend to leave early, or you can cut the date short as necessary. This way isn't flaking or canceling on people, nor is it in anyway the same as doing such.

3) Stacking Dates Even Closer To Each Other

More for a weekday or workday situation. This way, you may set the time for dates only 1 to 3 hours apart. The earlier dates are more coffee dates or weekday/workday 1st dates, particularly online dates with people you haven't met before, or particularly a flaky or suspect prank date (based on their messages).

The flaky or suspect date at say 6/6:30pm and the more solid date at at 8/8:30pm. The earlier date, can be cut short or pitched as a "coffee date" depending on the feeling or situation. And a smart guy, will use the 1st meeting 6/6:30pm date, to pitch and setup a longer 2nd date for Friday or the weekend. Then go meet the 8/8:30pm date.

So if the 8/8:30pm date flakes, the 6/6:30pm date becomes primary and you have more time. If the 6/6:30pm flakes, you have the 8/8:30pm.

It's a Win-Win, because of it's flexibility. As mentioned, I also send confirm messages in the morning, asking for a response about something (meet at south exit, instead of north for example). I create the opportunity for flakes and pranks to expose themselves, which many do, as such Japanese tend to not reply to confirmation messages on the same day or send a lame excuse cancel. Thus I can figure out they are flaky much earlier.

4) Rescheduling Dates

If you run into issues, or think you will have a problem, you send a message, asking to reschedule. Try to do such as early as possible. This is different from flakes, pranks, and no-shows. The intention and plan is to ACTUALLY meet the person on a different day, due to a scheduling conflict.

A flake or no-show will almost never seek to reschedule, but try to kill your day with little to no warning.

A prank might reschedule, but very suspiciously and at the last minute, where they 1st try to kill your day, and then go for killing a 2nd day. Consequently, if you accept the suspicious rescheduled date, you would definitely stack other dates on the same day.

5) When In Doubt, Call Them

Another way to filter out or derail flakes, pranks, or no-shows is to LINE call them. LINE calls are best, because you don't have to give out your real number nor deal with intrusive privacy video issues like with Skype. LINE call, preferably before the date. The night before OR lunch time (particularly if they didn't answer a morning message).

You should be smart about doing this, as not to be perceived as calling annoyingly or being too insecure, and preferably ONLY when suspicious of if the person is real. It should NOT be a surprise call, but send them a message, that you will call at X time. So they would know in advance. Flakes and pranks will usually not talk on the phone or via LINE call.

 

[Solong]

3. Total disaster. Met twice and then she started to scam me. Claimed her husband found out and had divorced her, and he was going to sue me for damages if I didn't pay up within 24 hours.
Scary shit I can tell you.

I don't think this is specfic to sugar-babies, but a problem with online dates in general. This is crazy or scammer type women. Not all women are like that, but you will run into such.

For women, the amount of attention they get from guys, allows them to perpetuate higher levels of abuse and scams. They keeping jumping between guys, until they find a guy who is a sucker or will tolerate her insanity.

Recently met a POF (Plenty Of Fish). We went out 2X, on dates where we had sex at the hotel. Kind of thought our relationship was going well, but she did have some odd mannerisms. How she talked was a bit rough and full of slang, in both English and Japanese. She didn't go to college. She also was clearly dating other guys from online, as I pulled this out in our conversations.

However, I treated her to a very nice expensive restaurant and hotel on the 2nd date. Trying to make it more fun, and show her a good time.

It appears to have been a mistake, in her case. She then targeted me for money. She then starts telling me weird stories that she lost her job and needs this massive amount of money. Putting me in a bit of a bind, because we did have sex 2X and were starting down the road towards a relationship.

I was thinking about helping her out, but then she tells me a conflicting story of working as a hostess, so couldn't meet at certain times. Hostess is still a job. So, I then dig into her story more, and she breaks out that she wants EXTRA money, not that she needs money. WTF!?! I was then done with her. The issue is her lying and being untrustworthy, so rather not stay in such a relationship or situation.

 

[User#16452]

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[Solong]

POF is well known for being full of strange people. You might as well have answered a Craig's List ad.

I believe it's in the nature of online dating in general. Doesn't matter which website. Have all kinds of stories with seekingarrangements, OkCupid, Tinder, etc...

Most online dates, actually go well. However, there is always a certain percentage. I put this as more, as the nature of doing things over the Internet. Seems scammers and malicious people are attracted to it as well, to cause trouble.

Craigslist, is of nearly little value for heterosexual men in an online dating sense, in my opinion. For women it might work, but not much for single heterosexual guys. With the exception being if you go the swinger or cuckold stud route, MW4M. There, I had some fun banging some wives or joining swinger parties, but that's not quite the same as hooking up with other single heterosexual women. POF is at least way better than Craigslist in that sense.

 

[Ches]

Indeed behaviour like this should never be generalised and taken as the norm.

Do not give up on a "dalagang Filipina", there are good ones out there. Albeit they'll be the more traditional ones (and probably not on SA or dating sites). For SA, one has to learn to filter out the bad ones.

A filipino I bet?
Nice to see a kababayan here in TAG

 

[basketcase]

lol.. is Sugar Lake a specific sugar dating site or is it a general class reference?

Any suggestions on sugar sites that seem to work well in Japan?