Escorts And Married Men

[meiji]

I'm a professional anthroplogist (won't give out too much info). I'm interested in escorts as a phenomenon. Not professionally, as my general work revolves around other issues. Just personally. Escorts interest me in an abstract way, like many other professions. The ins and outs of their industry fascinate me and I'm eager to learn about attitudes and perspectives towards many issues.

I'm an "amateur" anthropologist, and the hobby fascinates me. For a long time I've wanted to write a survey for various classes of providers and hobbyists to take, mainly because so much of it is shrouded in secrecy and hence the social science that's done on it tends to be crappy at best and reactionary/quackery at worst.

At the same time, there is an ethical component for me. I hold myself to a fairly stringent code of honor and I do not want to be responsible for souring a young woman towards marriage- that's what I mean by " boner killer." It's not that I want the whore to " like me." It's that I need it to fit within specific ethical parameters ( consensual/not under severe financial strain/no pimps, etc.).

I dunno, man. I think just about everyone in the hobby is psychologically affected by it in some way. And a lot of it has nothing to do with relationships with the opposite sex. Nowadays when I see a hotel, I wonder how many of the rooms there are occupied for the purposes of paid sex. Same thing with the large anonymous apartment complexes that are ubiquitous in America. I wouldn't really call it "jaded" or anything, it's just a different way of looking at the world.

I think I have become somewhat jaded about relationships (I'm not married), and it's probably helped me some, actually. Back in the day, I used to get lovestruck really easily, and then get burned at the end. Nowadays, I still would eventually like to get married, and it's my personal decision to not see providers while I have a long-term GF, but my time with providers has separated love and sex some.

In terms of 'hatred' or whatever, I think even if you stick within the ethical parameters, you are still going to be with women that don't like you or hate you. That's the way the service industry is. You don't think that there's waitstaff or customer service representatives that, even if you are polite and not a bother, occasionally hate your existence? I think providers ask about whether you are married because a) they are interested in their customers and b) because they want to give good service, which means making small talk with you and at least feigning interest in you.

Circling back to what you posted originally:

But I've also heard that many escorts have contempt for married clients ( dont ask me where) even though they don't show it. The thought of someone secretly loathing me is a huge turn-off.

A really good escort is once that convincingly sells you on a fantasy. There's a hobby term called Illusion of Passion, which is a provider's ability to act convincingly like she really loves her time with a hobbyist. Bad IOP isn't just a girl that lies there, but also girls that 2 seconds after penetration starts moaning loudly and saying "I'm coming! Let's come together, okay??" My point is that her job is to show you a fantasy and keep you there the entire time you are together. Note that there's a reason they call it Illusion of Passion, and not just Passion. As long as we are being ethical hobbyists and the provider has very good Illusion of Passion, I would argue that for the purposes of whether or not you enjoy a session, what a provider's actual state of mind and beliefs about you are irrelevant.

And I actually expect this fantasy from providers I see. I generally have no interest in hearing about their romantic lives outside of the bed I temporarily share with them, and I more or less have no interest in hearing about their other customers. I saw this college-age woman once in the US who took a short phone call while I was there, and when she came back told me that she just told her boyfriend that she was at the library studying. Total, total turn off for me. But that's because I'm paying for that experience. As others have said, if it bothers you that they'll think less of you, then lie to them. It's a fantasy, after all, and it's generally a good idea to have some separation (of emotions, of personal information, etc) anyway. But you have to understand that they might hate you regardless of how ethical/polite/clean you are, and that's really something you'll have to decide on and act accordingly.

 

[GoldenDalton]

I'm an "amateur" anthropologist, and the hobby fascinates me. For a long time I've wanted to write a survey for various classes of providers and hobbyists to take, mainly because so much of it is shrouded in secrecy and hence the social science that's done on it tends to be crappy at best and reactionary/quackery at worst.



I dunno, man. I think just about everyone in the hobby is psychologically affected by it in some way. And a lot of it has nothing to do with relationships with the opposite sex. Nowadays when I see a hotel, I wonder how many of the rooms there are occupied for the purposes of paid sex. Same thing with the large anonymous apartment complexes that are ubiquitous in America. I wouldn't really call it "jaded" or anything, it's just a different way of looking at the world.

I think I have become somewhat jaded about relationships (I'm not married), and it's probably helped me some, actually. Back in the day, I used to get lovestruck really easily, and then get burned at the end. Nowadays, I still would eventually like to get married, and it's my personal decision to not see providers while I have a long-term GF, but my time with providers has separated love and sex some.

In terms of 'hatred' or whatever, I think even if you stick within the ethical parameters, you are still going to be with women that don't like you or hate you. That's the way the service industry is. You don't think that there's waitstaff or customer service representatives that, even if you are polite and not a bother, occasionally hate your existence? I think providers ask about whether you are married because a) they are interested in their customers and b) because they want to give good service, which means making small talk with you and at least feigning interest in you.

Circling back to what you posted originally:



A really good escort is once that convincingly sells you on a fantasy. There's a hobby term called Illusion of Passion, which is a provider's ability to act convincingly like she really loves her time with a hobbyist. Bad IOP isn't just a girl that lies there, but also girls that 2 seconds after penetration starts moaning loudly and saying "I'm coming! Let's come together, okay??" My point is that her job is to show you a fantasy and keep you there the entire time you are together. Note that there's a reason they call it Illusion of Passion, and not just Passion. As long as we are being ethical hobbyists and the provider has very good Illusion of Passion, I would argue that for the purposes of whether or not you enjoy a session, what a provider's actual state of mind and beliefs about you are irrelevant.

And I actually expect this fantasy from providers I see. I generally have no interest in hearing about their romantic lives outside of the bed I temporarily share with them, and I more or less have no interest in hearing about their other customers. I saw this college-age woman once in the US who took a short phone call while I was there, and when she came back told me that she just told her boyfriend that she was at the library studying. Total, total turn off for me. But that's because I'm paying for that experience. As others have said, if it bothers you that they'll think less of you, then lie to them. It's a fantasy, after all, and it's generally a good idea to have some separation (of emotions, of personal information, etc) anyway. But you have to understand that they might hate you regardless of how ethical/polite/clean you are, and that's really something you'll have to decide on and act accordingly.

Thanks for the detailed answer.

I've never heard the term "Illusion of Passion." This forum is the perfect teaching tool.


Without disclosing too much, I'm a personal academic who is right now in the U.S. , so just being a hetero- man and expressing sexual thought ( in any context) is damn near heretical. So I come to TAG because it's so different from those kinds of circles. It's different from most hobbyist sites because it caters to a higher class of client.

So I guess I like to year people's opinions in general on here. For example, this thread had done good points on self- confidence you just won't get elsewhere.


The fantasy is important to me but I definitely want to be sure I don't get unrealistic. I just had heard from a former escort turned " activist" some of the most grotesque charges against men in the pastime. That coupled with my own weak knees made me want to hear some suffering viewpoints.

Ironically, unlike what's been said about me here among colleagues, I don't " hate women," or think that " women are only good for sucking dick." If some of those "activists" would stop and think about the lengths we go to to have women around, they'd be faced with their own lack of logic.

Anyway, thanks for the insightful reply ( That goes to all on this thread).

 

[John Chavers]

John Chavers...
John Chavers...
John Chavers...

 

[GoldenDalton]

View attachment 182

Damn that's pretty funny.

Oh and sorry I called you an "incel" earlier. At the time I thought you were making a different argument than what you were making, I.e a third wave feminist one. Don't get mad-that's who I am around all day. Plus you know, the interpretation of pictures.


Man I love Beetlejuice. Too bad Wynona Ryder went crazy.

 

[johnnyboy84]

I have been asked if I am married or have a girlfriend in the past and I just honestly answer no and that I have a shitty history of relationships since I was a teenager. Then I kind of turn the question on them asking them would they like it if they had a boyfriend or husband, would they want them seeing escorts, and of course they said no. Plus, i tell them I wouldn't want my girlfriend or wife doing this kind of work. But to make it easier, when they do ask me that question, I like to say to them that if i had a girlfriend or wife (and if I really like the escort I am having time with), that I wish they could be someone like them. Then it ends where they like to tell me I am a nice guy and hope I find a nice person.

However, there is a girl that I do see often on my punting who reminds me of a great girlfriend I had years ago (I actually reviewed that girl named Kurumi from Pururungang). I don't mind making an "emotional attachment" to further intensify the fantasy and she tells me she feels a distinct kind of passion from me. I do buy her simple gifts like cookies and a small cake and roses every time we meet. This girl is well aware that she reminds me of a girlfriend I had.

 

[Muku1]

The interesting thing to me about escorts (delivery health / hotel health) in Japan is that, once you get past the very young low 20s type like at Happy Berry in Shinjuku, many are married themselves.

A lot of the "housewife" 人妻 escorts in their 30s and 40s are very open about their kids, family, problems etc. to the extent that they'll mention on their shop blogs that they couldn't meet any customers today because their son woke up with a fever and had to go to the doctor, or their mother was coming to Tokyo from their hometown for a week, and the provider would be back on duty at the shop after that. In my experience they are incredibly open about that if there is time for romantic or other chit-chat. Some even use the opportunity to sell their openness to listen to and advise about any personal problems their client has his girlfriend or wife.

I've probably been with around a dozen different escorts over several years time, but not even one has been let down, disappointed, turned off or otherwise by the fact that I had a girlfriend or was married. In fact, most of them talked about how enjoying a friendly, sexual interlude outside of their private relationship was normal and necessary to deal with the stresses of family, spouse, and life in general. For both them and their customer.

In my humble opinion, there is no reason to hide your private relationship status. Nor is there any need to specifically discuss it. Up to you, and the way the session goes.

 

[johnnyboy84]

I have had two instances were women admitted to me they were married and one admitted to me she had a boyfriend. One of the married women was a 人妻 and another was a woman in the Korean delivery health business. The 人妻　admitted to me that her husband was aware of her job. The Korean woman told her husband she was like a cook or something.

But a good number of the younger ones are the business just to have the money to go to host clubs. But it would be hard to believe some of the fine ones I have met were married or have boyfriends.

And i recall two other instances were women had rings on their finger and they flat out denied to me they were married or engaged or any kind of relationship and just wore it their for fun and it was easy to fit a ring there.

 

[TheDutchElm]

The obvious solution is that you find a woman who is down with (even turned on by) the idea of an open relationship. They do exist. A caveat of that is you should be willing to offer the same liberty to her. I don't know if any of you listen to Dan Savage's podcast "Savage Love", but one of his big points against monogamy is just this: monogamy means confronting the fear of never seeing another person naked again. Phrased like that, it's no wonder so many people (male AND female) cheat. However, given how conservative Japan is about marriage (and how communication of desire and fantasy is forbidden), you're not in exactly the easiest area of the world to hook up this kind of arrangement if you're resident here. Just one more reason I stopped dating Japanese women...

As for escorts loathing married men...who do you think makes up most of their clientele??

 

[Solong]

I agree with Meiji. "What a provider's actual state of mind and beliefs about you are irreverent."

She might have sold you the "illusion of passion", but then tell her lady friends about how she hated you. And she could "hate" you because you are married, are fat, are hairy, bald, talk too much, are clumsy, or for a thousand reasons and imperfections. Her "hate" for you can also be a reflection of her hate for the work she is doing or even self-loathing.

You are paying her to do a job, and she is doing it. You can't control how she feels or think, other than affect her desire and greed for your money.

As was mentioned, many of these P4P providers are themselves married, have boyfriends/girlfriends, or are cheating (to include not telling about their job).

If you feel guilty about cheating on your wife, then it might be better if you become a swinger or have an open-relationship. In this way, you can be honest about sex with your wife/girlfriend.

There are a lot of women that will do swinging or open-relationships, the keys are learning to have open and honest discussions with women about sexuality and what you want. The other, is not being afraid to lose a woman. If she is not the one you want or need, then DROP her and FIND another.

 

[GoldenDalton]

I agree with Meiji. "What a provider's actual state of mind and beliefs about you are irreverent."

She might have sold you the "illusion of passion", but then tell her lady friends about how she hated you. And she could "hate" you because you are married, are fat, are hairy, bald, talk too much, are clumsy, or for a thousand reasons and imperfections. Her "hate" for you can also be a reflection of her hate for the work she is doing or even self-loathing.

You are paying her to do a job, and she is doing it. You can't control how she feels or think, other than affect her desire and greed for your money.

As was mentioned, many of these P4P providers are themselves married, have boyfriends/girlfriends, or are cheating (to include not telling about their job).

If you feel guilty about cheating on your wife, then it might be better if you become a swinger or have an open-relationship. In this way, you can be honest about sex with you wife/girlfriend.

There are a lot of women that will do swinging or open-relationship, the keys are learning to have open and honest discussions with women about sexuality and what you want. The other, is not being afraid to lose a woman. If she is not the one you want or need, then drop her and find another.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think about marriage in general? I think you've been at this around ten years more than I have. Do you get tired of being a player?

Sometimes I'm all for it, at other times I have my doubts. One woman FOR LIFE. Damn ha.

 

[GoldenDalton]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think about marriage in general? I think you've been at this around ten years more than I have. Do you get tired of being a player?

Sometimes I'm all for it, at other times I have my doubts. One woman FOR LIFE. Damn ha.

I realized I asked an extremely personal question. So apologies in advance.

 

[TheDutchElm]

You don't have to be married to be dedicated to someone. It just looks good on your taxes for outdated regulatory reasons. My 2 cents...

 

[GoldenDalton]

You don't have to be married to be dedicated to someone. It just looks good on your taxes for outdated regulatory reasons. My 2 cents...

Didnt think about it that way. I would be hesitant to do that here (U.S.) as these women I meet tend to be pretty deadset on the whole big deal, wedding and all. Of course, who knows how long such a thing would last anyway.
I like your idea better than marriage atm. Course that might change when I get back to Japan. Should be a much longer stay this time, so I might meet somebody I mesh with this time. Who knows.

 

[GoldenDalton]

I agree with Meiji. "What a provider's actual state of mind and beliefs about you are irreverent."

She might have sold you the "illusion of passion", but then tell her lady friends about how she hated you. And she could "hate" you because you are married, are fat, are hairy, bald, talk too much, are clumsy, or for a thousand reasons and imperfections. Her "hate" for you can also be a reflection of her hate for the work she is doing or even self-loathing.

You are paying her to do a job, and she is doing it. You can't control how she feels or think, other than affect her desire and greed for your money.

As was mentioned, many of these P4P providers are themselves married, have boyfriends/girlfriends, or are cheating (to include not telling about their job).

If you feel guilty about cheating on your wife, then it might be better if you become a swinger or have an open-relationship. In this way, you can be honest about sex with you wife/girlfriend.

There are a lot of women that will do swinging or open-relationship, the keys are learning to have open and honest discussions with women about sexuality and what you want. The other, is not being afraid to lose a woman. If she is not the one you want or need, then drop her and find another.

You already answered my question recently in another thread. Just now read it.

 

[TheDutchElm]

There's lots of women who want a permanent partner but don't want to get married. Don't give up. Might be hard to find one in Japan unless she's older (late 30's at least I would say), as the must-conform-to-social-mores mindset here is barely one step above tribal sheep-herders. lol Interestingly, I've found that foreign women staying in Japan (not English teachers) are more likely to take a skeptical view of the marriage institution. My last girlfriend (white, American) told me she just wants to wear the fancy dress and have the reception party and didn't care about the legal status at all. She didn't even care about (gasp) "the ring"!

 

[johnnyboy84]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think about marriage in general? I think you've been at this around ten years more than I have. Do you get tired of being a player?

Sometimes I'm all for it, at other times I have my doubts. One woman FOR LIFE. Damn ha.

You don't have to be married to be dedicated to someone. It just looks good on your taxes for outdated regulatory reasons. My 2 cents...

I think it'd be nice to forever share my life with someone special even though I have ultimately been a failure in relationships ever since I could date from the age of 13. My friends tell me it's time for me to settle down and fine a nice wife (yeah, easier said than done) and have been willing to set me up. My sister says that my lifestyle (of course she's not aware of the part of my lifestyle that we actively discuss on this forum lol) could never allow that.

The only real good serious relationship I had didn't work out because our jobs transferred us to different places and it wouldn't have allowed us to further pursue our relationship to the next level. I think there are women out there for us that would make us give up this life style. I knew this last girlfriend I had was that girl if I could still have her.

But I will confess a majority of the reason why I punt is a mix between my insecurities and the fact it's simply fun.

 

[TheDutchElm]

My friends tell me it's time for me to settle down and fine a nice wife (yeah, easier said than done) and have been willing to set me up. My sister says that my lifestyle (of course she's not aware of the part of my lifestyle that we actively discuss on this forum lol) could never allow that.

Again, only my personal opinion, but it sounds like your friends need to take a hike. In the end, you should do what's best for you, not what someone else expects of you.

And to address any cynicism directed at substantive relationships, if your experience has been getting fucked over constantly in non-p4p relationships, it might be good to revisit what exactly you are looking for in a woman.

 

[TheDutchElm]

I think my advice extends well to the situations you're describing too, Scotty. If the women you're dating are in some kind of achievement mode where they just want to lock down a husband, you should re-evaluate your choice of woman. There ARE women out there that just want to date for fun and let a relationship develop organically, if at all.

The former stereotype is a major reason I stopped dating Japanese women in Japan. The fun ones are too young to have anything interesting to say and the older ones just want to lock down something with a dick so their parents will stop raking them over the coals.

 

[Solong]

Scotty, very well said. 99% agree. Natural male sexuality and the heterosexual need of companionship are being abused by various women. This is not sexist or hateful, but a very fair point based on the reality and experience that many men have with women.

Furthermore, if you are paying for it, then you set the terms and conditions for exactly what you want. As a man, you need to exercise your FREEDOM of choice. Don't tolerate being played or abused by women.

Many men have outdated notions of chivalry and romanticism that NO LONGER apply in modern times or will NOT be reciprocated by women that have become strongly predatory. More guys need to wise up.


"If you look at it, what's the VERY FIRST thing most women do when establishing a relationship?

They try to 1, Get you to chase them, and 2, Monopolize your efforts. Not saying this to be sexist or hateful (recent guidance from Meiji in mind), but it is what I have observed. Once you're invested, then other soft abuse can start. It's important to be respectful not only of your partner but of yourself. If you've got a pattern of being screwed over, I'm willing to bet it's because you're handing your partners the knife to stab you with."

"As relates to escorts, there's a lot of teasing/entrapment/leading on that *can* happen. Yeah, sure, it's all for pay, but the truth is that men are romantic fools a lot of the time. If an escort can manipulate the relationship to their maximum benefit, then do you think it won't happen?"

"Example: A massage parlor provider tried to GFE me in a Starbucks a while back and over a couple of weeks we engaged in some flirty texting where she tried to rope me in as a recurring client. She succeeded in extracting a couple of sessions from me before I wised the hell up. It became clear that we were at odds as far as what we wanted..."

 

[meiji]

Scotty, very well said. 99% agree. Natural male sexuality and the heterosexual need of companionship are being abused by various women. This is not sexist or hateful, but a very fair point based on the reality and experience that many men have with women.

Furthermore, if you are paying for it, then you set the terms and conditions for exactly what you want. As a man, you need to exercise your FREEDOM of choice. Don't tolerate being played or abused by women.

Many men have outdated notions of chivalry and romanticism that NO LONGER apply in modern times or will NOT be reciprocated by women that have become strongly predatory. More guys need to wise up.

This really has nothing to do with men or women at all (especially their inherent natures), and everything to do with relationships and business. People will take advantage of you if you let them. If they take advantage of you, it's not the fault of that person, or outdated notions of gender roles or anything else. It's your fault.

Do some women use their feminine wiles to get more money out of you than you'd ordinarily be willing to pay? Sure. But that doesn't make women any worse than men who use aggression to get their way, or bureaucracies that use red tape to get their way, or any other example of humans interacting with humans.

If you are pissed off because a massage is too expensive, or you've gone out with a girl a half dozen times and she expects you to pay but isn't putting out, that's not her fault. She's not "taking advantage" of you or abusing you or playing you. I agree that "you need to exercise your freedom of choice" and that you "need to wise up", but that's not just a guy thing. EVERYONE should set boundaries on what their expectations are, and if they aren't being met (nicely) take some action to express your needs, or just move on.

The problem that I and other people have with a number of these posts is that it's always about the bad things that women do and what guys need to do to fight back. I believe that if you go into a sexual relationship thinking of it as a zero-sum battle, you are going to end up having a miserable time because you'll never truly share what you want and who you are with a woman. And just like men, women have every right to set their own expectations, just as providers have every right to set their own prices. If a woman's expectations are too high or not right for you, don't date her, or move on. If a provider is too expensive, or doesn't provide what you want, don't see her.

This is not men vs women. There is no fighting back. There's only setting your own boundaries and accepting the consequences of your actions (or inaction, as the case may be).

 

[Solong]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think about marriage in general? I think you've been at this around ten years more than I have. Do you get tired of being a player?

Sometimes I'm all for it, at other times I have my doubts. One woman FOR LIFE. Damn ha.

My opinion is that marriage is for the purpose or sake of raising kids, otherwise it's unnecessary. The man should have the very specific goal of wanting kids and a family, NOT something he is TRICKED or trapped into.

Men should arguably guard against marriage. Various women of today are often highly predatory and often see men as TOOLs to be abused and walking ATM machines. This includes some women using the state and government, or abusing laws to get unfair advantages. It's dog eat dog out here.

And even if a man has kids, if his marriage life is hell and the wife doesn't know how to make a good team, then get out.

A lot of men get trapped into bad marriages based on social or family pressure, plus romantic idealism and childish fantasies. Often not realizing what is the situation or their mistakes until they are much older.

Especially young men, I would say that in most cases, they should WAIT until they are near 40 years old before getting married. Get experience, enjoy life, become stable in their job (get your money right) and LEARN to be the MASTER of their house and in dealing with women.

And age and the biological clock is where men and women are very different. Men can start families at 40 or 50, while most women can't and can become desperate at 30. This is a strong natural advantage that men should be using to make their life better.

I know the difference between married life and as a single swinger, and can say that having a choice is vastly more preferable.

The key is learning how to create an ideal situation for yourself. By having multiple relationships with women, you can get the sex and companionship. You select women on your team for qualities you want or need. You can have women who help you do accounting, do translation for you, go clubbing, go swinging, on trips, etc...

1 woman does NOT have to be everything, you can replace members of your team per your preferences. And by the way, this is often what a lot of women are doing these days to men.

In many cases, various forms of polyamorous relationships can be ideal. It begins with a man not being afraid of rejection and going out there and making what he wants happen. In this "sex in the city" age, more and more people are having unacknowledged multiple sexual relationships or polyamorous relationships with 3 or more people at the same time. The unknowledged reality is that humans and most mammals are non-monogamous. Instead of running and hiding from reality, we should (men and women) embrace and enjoy it.

 

[Solong]

This really has nothing to do with men or women at all (especially their inherent natures), and everything to do with relationships and business. People will take advantage of you if you let them. If they take advantage of you, it's not the fault of that person, or outdated notions of gender roles or anything else. It's your fault.

Do some women use their feminine wiles to get more money out of you than you'd ordinarily be willing to pay? Sure. But that doesn't make women any worse than men who use aggression to get their way, or bureaucracies that use red tape to get their way, or any other example of humans interacting with humans.

If you are pissed off because a massage is too expensive, or you've gone out with a girl a half dozen times and she expects you to pay but isn't putting out, that's not her fault. She's not "taking advantage" of you or abusing you or playing you. I agree that "you need to exercise your freedom of choice" and that you "need to wise up", but that's not just a guy thing. EVERYONE should set boundaries on what their expectations are, and if they aren't being met (nicely) take some action to express your needs, or just move on.

The problem that I and other people have with a number of these posts is that it's always about the bad things that women do and what guys need to do to fight back. I believe that if you go into a sexual relationship thinking of it as a zero-sum battle, you are going to end up having a miserable time because you'll never truly share what you want and who you are with a woman. And just like men, women have every right to set their own expectations, just as providers have every right to set their own prices. If a woman's expectations are too high or not right for you, don't date her, or move on. If a provider is too expensive, or doesn't provide what you want, don't see her.

This is not men vs women. There is no fighting back. There's only setting your own boundaries and accepting the consequences of your actions (or inaction, as the case may be).

I understand and mostly agree with your position.

However, I find it curious that if men speak out about their personal experiences, a lot of "white knighting" starts to happen. And it seems that instead of debating openly, some or a lot of this happens behind the scenes. I'm wondering if it's to silence opinions they disagree with.

I don't think it's the bashing of all women or P4P, as often guys are being specific about a type of woman or kind of situation. It's also not the bashing or insulting of a specific woman.

I love women, and my perception is most of the men on here do too. They are just discussing their situations and personal experiences.

It should also be acknowledged that if the writer is a man, he is going to speak from his perspective. While a female writer would go from her perspective.

And I totally agree that women have their rights, and so should men too. Everybody has their concept of what an ideal or advantageous situation or relationship is. And this diversity is great, because it's freedom of choice for both sexes.

 

[John Chavers]

Men should arguably guard against marriage.

As they have been in large numbers

 

[johnnyboy84]

Again, only my personal opinion, but it sounds like your friends need to take a hike. In the end, you should do what's best for you, not what someone else expects of you.

And to address any cynicism directed at substantive relationships, if your experience has been getting fucked over constantly in non-p4p relationships, it might be good to revisit what exactly you are looking for in a woman.

In a way, I told them to take a hike. Most of them have more fucked up experiences than me since a few of them were divorced before they were even 30. I am positive I know what I want in a woman, but just hard to find her and when I found her, circumstances out of our control that was neither her fault or mine forced to end it. Our jobs just transferred us to places that forced us apart and that experience really devastated me. Even after 3 years, I am going through it.

Johnnyboy84's experiences with Umi were instructive. My assessment is that he's her type, so gets extra special treatment. Which leads into a tangent: Think you don't need game in P4P? Think again. All emotions are in play. Always.

Well, yeah game and chemistry is what you need. Some girls in p4p like to get down to business and do the job they were paid to do. Some like to open up a bit. I have had great experiences, bad experiences, and really fucked up experiences on this scene. But it goes with actual dating too as we all know. I just got to know Umi more and her personal interests and I just exhibited interest in her and bought her things that related to her interest. She asks me to help with her English and I feel like we can have fun with that by telling her naughty and nice things about her in English. I have only bought gifts for 3 women I frequented in p4p but 1 is no longer working.

This one girl I used to see a few years ago at Shibuya Smile told me she loved Dr. Dre and I bought her a cheap copy of his old chronic album. p4p girls are more likely to call me a better listener than a huge majority of ladies I have tried to have relationships with lol.

A host friend of mine told me I was probably a working girl in a previous life that fucked up in relationships with men. Sometimes I want to believe he is right.

 

[John Chavers]

I was probably a working girl in a previous life that fucked up in relationships with men