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Going On A Date.. Who Pays? What Is Normal

you guys are so nice! thanks for all the positive vibes! i am open to this girl and told her i really enjoyed it and made it obvious i would like a second date, as she likes to drink i know a good place to take her, but honestly i dont want to push against a locked door, from her interactions with me i am pretty sure she is not interested, nevermind!

I think the guys think it's worth trying for a second date (based on their reading of the situation), so if *you* would be interested in seeing her again then suggest a date at the place you know.

If she blows it off then you have your answer and then you know where you stand and you just chalk it up to experience.

If she accepts and if you don't feel a connection during the date then don't ask her out again - because no matter whether she likes you or not or whether she is beautiful or not it isn't worth it if you aren't having a good time with her.
 
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ok.. fine.. if you guys think i should i will! i guess i should leave it a few days so i dont seem too keen? hate all this phone bs
 
The fact she is still messaging you back AFTER the first date is so clear indication she wants to see you again

Put it another way. Not that this will ever happen, but supposing you was badly injured in a traffic accident or wrongfully imprisoned next week. Do you think you might regret not having asked her out for a second date?

If you're scared of getting rejected, then you're the same as 80% of most men.

If you back out by convincing yourself it's going nowhere, that sets a dangerous precedent for future dates with other girls. You might even want to look at this as " date practice."

I think I said enough already. You might not mind but some of our other bros will. I might get accused of being a Super Dater Bro
 
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i am honestly not scared... i have been on a few dates recently, with women who were obviously interested (i didnt feel the same).. so now to go out with someone i really like the lookbof, for her to be not interested is.. dissapointing! i hear what you are saying about assuming the worst.. i just cant see why date#2 would be different.. will ask her
 
This matter is being overthought and over-analyzed, imo. If you'd like to pursue a relationship with her after the first date, then ask her out again and see what happens. Trying to read the tea leaves too carefully is very prone to errors and misunderstandings. Maybe she was just in a quirky or preoccupied mood that evening for some reason or misread something in your behavior to suggest you weren't interested or...any of thousands of other possibilities.

-Ww
 
This matter is being overthought and over-analyzed, imo. If you'd like to pursue a relationship with her after the first date, then ask her out again and see what happens. Trying to read the tea leaves too carefully is very prone to errors and misunderstandings. Maybe she was just in a quirky or preoccupied mood that evening for some reason or misread something in your behavior to suggest you weren't interested or...any of thousands of other possibilities.

-Ww

good points well made! i asked her
 
This matter is being overthought and over-analyzed, imo. If you'd like to pursue a relationship with her after the first date, then ask her out again and see what happens. Trying to read the tea leaves too carefully is very prone to errors and misunderstandings. Maybe she was just in a quirky or preoccupied mood that evening for some reason or misread something in your behavior to suggest you weren't interested or...any of thousands of other possibilities.

-Ww

Haha... It's quite refreshing to see that men are into this kind of analyzing as well as women.
Socially I think men have it easier though - yes having to be the one doing the asking and risking rejection sucks, but having to wait and figure out whether he liked you and he will ask you out again really sucks too.
 
Yeah, my impression is that women are even more prone than men to torturing themselves with trying to figure out the implications of tiny little "clues" to his thoughts and intentions, which most often aren't clues at all but just the random "noise" of daily life or individual personality traits.

"Lord, what fools these mortals be!"

-Ww
 
.. i didnt overanalyse.. seems clear to me.. but will keep an open mind..(and if #2 is still no fun then yes, i am out of there regardless of how pretty she is)

thanks for the interesting perspectives and wisdom (as always) tag
 
...
Replying to compliments isn't always easy. She might not have understood properly, or genuinely thought it was just flattery. Super Nanpa Bro Solong once commented that even really hot J girls are insecure about their looks...

I totally agree with this.
If I were the OP, I would avoid making compliments from now on.
Girls simply don't believe them and they just see them as a way to get into their pant.

A compliment should always be made in a very subtile/undirect way in my opinion.

Lastly, my view on that particular date is that the girl kept going eating just because the guy went on offering drinks/desserts etc.

And if the communication was really awkward, I understand that she chose eating over talking.

In that particular case I would have used body contact (touching her hair, shoulders, back).

You know, j-girls are very good at showing coldness even if they are interested in you.

Well, that's my take on this anyway.
 
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Thanks majime.. If nothing else it was good practice! It sounds silly but I didn't want to touch her as I was a bit annoyed at her for not acting more interested in me.. Maybe that was a bad idea

Yeah.. I need to work on my compliment game.. I think they were way too direct.. Need to improve my nihongo for that also
 
Thanks majime.. If nothing else it was good practice! It sounds silly but I didn't want to touch her as I was a bit annoyed at her for not acting more interested in me.. Maybe that was a bad idea

Yeah.. I need to work on my compliment game.. I think they were way too direct.. Need to improve my nihongo for that also

You know what, I think you are thinking about it all in a more positive way now.

After all, it's not just about whether she likes you or not - it's about whether you like her (and that goes for both men and women)

I don't think it's weird that you didn't want to touch her. Yes, men are more visual than women, but for everyone enthusiasm and interest are attractive.

And you come across as such a sweetie, that you deserve someone who will show you the same interest and affection that you will show her.

Because the guys say that level of reserve is common with Japanese women I do recommend going for a second date if you would like to see if things improve, but only do that if *you* want to.
 
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I think it has been said before, but if there is some sort of language barrier, maybe try for some type of date that isn't all talking. Personally I find movies or live music a little too less communicative (might be my bad ears, but I had asking 'what did you say all the time '), but there are a ton of things you can do based on your and her interests. Could be an exhibition, could be a dart bar etc.. Most of those things are also less expensive than a full drawn out romantic dinner. Might also be easier to relax for her if she feels insecure.
 
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You know what, I think you are thinking about it all in a more positive way now.

After all, it's not just about whether she likes you or not - it's about whether you like her (and that goes for both men and women)

I don't think it's weird that you didn't want to touch her. Yes, men are more visual than women, but for everyone enthusiasm and interest are attractive.

And you come across as such a sweetie, that you deserve someone who will show you the same interest and affection that you will show her.

Because the guys say that level of reserve is common with Japanese women I do recommend going for a second date if you would like to see if things improve, but only do that if *you* want to.

i think i can understand whatbit was like from her POV a littlr better, easier to eat and drink if you find it hard to talk. i think she probably doesnt have much money (although she was dressed well) so maybe nice for her to be treated. she did text me after, after i thanked her for a lovely evening saying "its me who should say thanks". no reply for date 2 so i think i got the answer i was expecting.. she is quite young, maybe she doesnt know what she wants.. or who knows, i dont think she was trying to take advantage of me, and my bad for not going somewhere cheaper and cutting it short when it was clear it wasnt going anywhere!
 
...It sounds silly but I didn't want to touch her as I was a bit annoyed at her for not acting more interested in me.. Maybe that was a bad idea

I can understand that it can be counter-intuitive to touch a girl who doesn't look like she is interested in you.

But since most (if not all) japanese girls will never take the lead anyway, the guy has to do everything.

Also, do not forget that there are two types of japanese girls : the UKEMI girls and the ones who are not UKEMI.

The UKEMI ones just wait. That's the only thing they are capable of.
If you do nothing, nothing will ever happen.
And if you do something, she won't complain even if she dislikes it.
I totally hate it but that's the way it is in Japan.

Also, one thing I always do whenever possible is to seat next to them in the restaurant.
I avoid sitting in front of them.

When you're next to her :
1. she is more relaxed because she doesn't have to pay much attention to the way she eats.
2. you have plenty of occasions to touch ... but it must be very subtile and always accompanied with a totally mundane discussion.(no compliments!!)

Yeah.. I need to work on my compliment game.. I think they were way too direct.. Need to improve my nihongo for that also

Then avoid them altogether.
A nice and genuine smile is always better than any compliment ... and it doesn't need words.
 
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it was 9500 yen for dinner dessert and drinks, so more than i normally pay but not crazy expensive..

Whoa buddy! Yeah if you're very successful or have very few dates, that's sustainable. But if you have a somewhat normal job, or have more than one date in a long while, you might consider either a cheaper place or getting some cash from her. "Free lunch service" is not really what you're providing. If you're older than her and established in your career I think it's a good idea to pay (unless you're so swagged out that you have dates left and right and don't GAF). I tend to be around the same age as the girls I'm dating so I almost always ask.

Easy way to ask for cash is, for example if the bill is 5 or 6,000 just saying "2千円ある?” You're still paying more than her, but a little bit of cash put in on her side makes things balanced, and psychologically they rationalize their spent money backwards and believe they had a better time if they spend some cash. The exception being if she's a student or otherwise seems broke.. then just pay for her. But you can take her somewhere cheaper.

Why was the date near her house? Did you try to set it up near yours first? Basic logistics..

Yeah I pretty much always assume every date is going to be the last one, so it's always close to somewhere you can pull to. If you start banking on "playing the long game" or "making your move on the next date" you're going to end up alone a lot more of the time..
 
it was there as that is near where i live too and i thought it would be nice to go somewhere that was not much effort for her

thanks guys, i think this is all good advice, but honestly right from the start i think she had made up her mind.. i am new to dating.. i will do better next time! not sure what a ukemi girl is.. doesnt sound much fun!
 
hello

i met a lovely young lady who agreed to come out with me for dinner.. i am slightly worried about what happens at the end with the bill.. should i just cover it? (i dont really mind as a one off, but hope we can split it in future).. what is the norm?

Thanks tag
My method is based on past experience, on the woman's age (relative to me), and job.

1) If she is over 30 or my age, has a high paying job or swimming in money (rich husband or family), and is wearing expensive clothes and jewelry then she pays at least HALF.

You find out about her job and financial situation by talking to her. And if wearing expensive clothes and jewelry, I try to see if she will brag about it. Because such women, when it's time to pay bills, will usually pay half. Some are proud to do so.

If she appears to have lots of money, I will even let her pay for things. I've been the boy-toy for rich women before, so know how to slide into that role. Key is to identify how much money she has in comparison to yourself from conversations.

2) If she has no job, housewife, much younger than me, or is a regular college student that is very attractive then I pay.

Again, look at her fashion style and ask questions. Don't try to force money out of women that don't have it, as usually they will stop meeting you out of embarrassment.

3) Whenever in doubt or she is working, I attempt to have her pay 1/4 to 1/3.

You can even make her feel good about it, by stating you will pay most of the bill. Calculate the bill in advance.

Most women will feel they got the advantage and/or feel good about contributing somewhat.

Also, good idea to have lots of 1,000 yen bills whenever dating a new woman. A sneaky game some women play is pretend they have no smaller bills. Say she only has a 10,000 yen bill. By you having lots of smaller bills, you can take her 10,000 and give her back the appropriate change.

4) Don't argue or make awkward scenes, about money with women, and especially never give a sour face over money if you want sex or a relationship.

You make the attempt to collect money from women by telling her how much she should contribute and after figuring out her financial situation. You do the math. Bill is 10,000 yen, then you ask her to contribute 3,000 yen or whatever you think fair.

If she refuses to pay or pretends she doesn't have money, the man should SMILE, then pay if he wants sex later. "Don't worry, I got it ;-)"

If you are going to dump her and not trying for sex, demand half (which most women will do), then leave her right there. However, you should attempt to avoid such negativity when possible.

5) 1st date can be last date.

Don't think because you paid for everything, she will have sex, because some women purposely scam or abuse guys on dates.

Some women will act like they will meet you again, then never respond ever again and cut all contact. Japanese women are especially bad and notorious for doing this.

If a guy is worried about money or being taken advantage of for money by women, then try to get 1/3 from her. At least that way, you won't feel bad if you never see her again.
 
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[QUOTE.
Some women will act like they will meet you again, then never respond ever again and cut all contact. Japanese women are especially bad and notorious for doing this.
[/QUOTE]

Never heard this before. Not my experience. Never happened to me, and have never heard anything similar from my friends.
 
Some women will act like they will meet you again, then never respond ever again and cut all contact. Japanese women are especially bad and notorious for doing this.

Never heard this before. Not my experience. Never happened to me, and have never heard anything similar from my friends.

This happens often. Chicks, especially the young, social, hot ones, are sleeping around, probably more effectively than most guys. Girls you meet from cold approach often have a very short impression of you. This works in your favor in that the mystery drives them to come meet you, but when they come to the date not all of them are going to like you as a potential boyfriend. If she's decided you're not potential boyfriend she has no need to worry about you thinking she's a slut because you don't know any of her friends. Combine that with the fact that she's already out and having fun with you.. she's more likely to sleep with you! Then, provide some mind-blowing sex and suddenly you seem like a more viable option, or at the very least an unavoidable addiction of the flesh :whistle:
It's always easier to switch from heated lover ---> boyfriend/provider mode than the other way around if you're looking for a girlfriend anyway.

The other option being, go many dates with her and "prove your merit" before kokuhaku'ing and hoping for her to dispense some sex in your general direction.

If you don't do a lot of dates from cold approach, and are instead meeting girls from more friendly situations like social circle or work, you'll get less cut-contact type situations.. because they can't really do that if your social circle is mixed. They'll politely refuse instead but still be friendly and everyone gets over it without too much embarrassment.
 
[QUOTE.
Some women will act like they will meet you again, then never respond ever again and cut all contact. Japanese women are especially bad and notorious for doing this.

Never heard this before. Not my experience. Never happened to me, and have never heard anything similar from my friends.[/QUOTE]

Oh, so EVERY woman you ever took on a date, you kept relations with her forever more?

That is amazing. You either have dated few women or have 1,000 simultaneous girlfriends right now.

By the way, you don't have to feel obligated to unreasonably defend every woman in Japan. I typed SOME women. Your personal experience, is not the experience of every woman in Japan.
 
@Solong you could be in Xanadu sharing a pad with 10 naked supermodels and still find something to argue about ...... who put bread crumbs in the strawberry jam, close the fridge door, don't you have any underwear!, why don't any of you bitches ever refill the shampoo bottle!
 
@Solong you could be in Xanadu sharing a pad with 10 naked supermodels and still find something to argue about ...... who put bread crumbs in the strawberry jam, close the fridge door, don't you have any underwear!, why don't any of you bitches ever refill the shampoo bottle!
[emoji1]
 
@Solong guys do the no small bills thing too & ask to pay on their credit card to collect travel mileage.